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If this was anybody else but Slate, I would say that the writer needs to have his head examined. But since Slate hires "writers" who are so far left that they stayed in Albuquerque (Bugs Bunny joke for those that missed it), this doesn't surprise me. Did he have a valid point or two? To an extent. Yes, the House of Saud does see the ME through the lenses of Shia vs Sunni. That's a real fight and I saw it daily in Iraq. They hate each other. Is turning Iran into a real (as opposed to what they are currently- a Shar'ia based Islamic Theorepublic) democracy paramount to stability in the region? Yes. Can it be done? In my opinion, it can not nor will not happen in our lifetimes. The underlying and hidden theme that Dear Frank was writing was that Obama is good, and all who oppose him are evil. Here's the most important piece of information that he forgot to mention, and that the Administration forgot to consult. In every single poll I've seen, the overwhelming point thrown down is that the American Public does NOT want a deal struck with Iran. Again and again our Dear Leader does what he wants without regards to his subject's... wait, Citizen's (sorry)... wishes. This deal emboldened a weakened Iran. They WILL use this to attempt to rebuild their nuclear arms program. Every single time we or someone else has struck a deal with them, they resort to building up their NEP. Why? Because the Ayatollah wants to defeat the "Great Satan". This writer puts too much stock in the people of Iran. Are they literate and Pro-Western? No one can be for certain. These are hypothetical statements because the Iranian government crushes any and all resistance to their current status quo. What we do know is that the average Iranian is too scared of the Qadr and the Iranian Republican Guard to do anything about the oppression.
So for all these reasons and more, this article falls flat on its face.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/07/the_real_reason_israel_saudi_arabia_and_neocons_hate_the_iran_deal_they.html
So for all these reasons and more, this article falls flat on its face.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/07/the_real_reason_israel_saudi_arabia_and_neocons_hate_the_iran_deal_they.html
Posted in these groups: 
Office of the President (POTUS)
Iran
Office of the President (POTUS) Iran
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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There is so much wrong with this entire deal it is stunning that we moved forward with it. This is all about Obama's "legacy" rather than sound diplomatic engagement.
The first major issue is the entire process has legitimized Iran's nuclear program. That's right, we have cleared them hot by an agreement (assuming it is signed) to develop nuclear power and ultimately weapons.
This is an attempt to kick the can down the road for the next couple of presidents to have to deal with. Obama claims victory and walks away, someone else cleans up the mess.
Both Arab and Jew agree this is not a good deal. They never agree on anything. That is another wake up call.
Then there are the assets we will unfreeze and the lifting of the arms embargo. They will get 150 billion or so back and will have the ability to modernize their military and make it even more difficult should we have to engage them later. How stupid is these? Pretty stupid.
We should not strike deals from a position of weakness and accommodation. We are better off with no deal and aligning our allies and friends against them through economic, diplomatic and if necessary military engagement. They are a destabilizing force in the region and will only use this deal to buy time and advance their cause. This is North Korean all over again except they are much more clever.
Iran and their leadership is not trustworthy they operate under a completely different construct of the world than we do. They can and will like to infidels without batting an eye. It is considered acceptable to do so as an example.
The first major issue is the entire process has legitimized Iran's nuclear program. That's right, we have cleared them hot by an agreement (assuming it is signed) to develop nuclear power and ultimately weapons.
This is an attempt to kick the can down the road for the next couple of presidents to have to deal with. Obama claims victory and walks away, someone else cleans up the mess.
Both Arab and Jew agree this is not a good deal. They never agree on anything. That is another wake up call.
Then there are the assets we will unfreeze and the lifting of the arms embargo. They will get 150 billion or so back and will have the ability to modernize their military and make it even more difficult should we have to engage them later. How stupid is these? Pretty stupid.
We should not strike deals from a position of weakness and accommodation. We are better off with no deal and aligning our allies and friends against them through economic, diplomatic and if necessary military engagement. They are a destabilizing force in the region and will only use this deal to buy time and advance their cause. This is North Korean all over again except they are much more clever.
Iran and their leadership is not trustworthy they operate under a completely different construct of the world than we do. They can and will like to infidels without batting an eye. It is considered acceptable to do so as an example.
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When Iran stops aiding and abetting world wide terrorism, then maybe we should lift the sanctions. They have been linked to the deaths of at least 500 of our military brothers and sisters. Remember back in 2009 when the citizens of Iran tried to wrestle control of the country from the Ayatollahs, and Obama did nothing to assist. So now he makes a deal with the devil against the will of the American people. Figure the odds.
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Cpl Andrew Tucker
Also, how the hell does a Midwesterner from the landlocked of all landlocked states become a Navy man?
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CAPT Gary Foster
It's a long story Andrew! I actually grew up in Wisconsin. My dad was a Navy pilot trainee at the end of WWII, and my grandfather fought with the 32nd Div in WWI. Hope that helps!
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Suspended Profile
Here's the thing. Iranian citizens, most of whom did not sign up to be hammer fist ruled by the Ayatollahs have been starved because of the sanctions. Yet, the sanctions haven't changed the mind of the Ayatollahs one bit.
This may be the best way to force change in Iran, but remember history. The citizens of Iran revolted against the US in 1979. This led ultimately to the Ayatollahs being in charge. Do we really want to inflame the citizens against us again?
Right now, some of the leadership are in a cooperative mood. We need to exploit that by any means. Unless you want to go to war against Iran, diplomacy is the only answer. And make no mistake, Iraq will have seemed like a walk in the park compared to going to war against Iran. They are too well funded, organized and trained. And Persians have a sense of national pride that Arabs don't have. Remember that all Arab countries are artificial constructs forced by the British and French. Iran isn't. Iran/Persia has been the same country since pre-Biblical times. They have a sense of nationalism that no-one other than Israel has in the Middle East.
Whether or not they have nukes, they would be a very difficult enemy to fight. This agreement will hopefully restrain their development of nuclear weapons. But MAKE NO MISTAKE. With the treaty, we can't trust them. BUT-- can we trust them more without a treaty? I think not...
This may be the best way to force change in Iran, but remember history. The citizens of Iran revolted against the US in 1979. This led ultimately to the Ayatollahs being in charge. Do we really want to inflame the citizens against us again?
Right now, some of the leadership are in a cooperative mood. We need to exploit that by any means. Unless you want to go to war against Iran, diplomacy is the only answer. And make no mistake, Iraq will have seemed like a walk in the park compared to going to war against Iran. They are too well funded, organized and trained. And Persians have a sense of national pride that Arabs don't have. Remember that all Arab countries are artificial constructs forced by the British and French. Iran isn't. Iran/Persia has been the same country since pre-Biblical times. They have a sense of nationalism that no-one other than Israel has in the Middle East.
Whether or not they have nukes, they would be a very difficult enemy to fight. This agreement will hopefully restrain their development of nuclear weapons. But MAKE NO MISTAKE. With the treaty, we can't trust them. BUT-- can we trust them more without a treaty? I think not...
Suspended Profile
Andrew, how does not having a treaty, and keeping the status quo, where their nuclear program is unchecked, increase our security?
How would you address this issue?
I know my position is the minority on RP. That's fine. I tend to take a contrarian view on a lot of issues. Discussions that are one-sided never explore all the issues. My goal is to always ask questions and prompt dialogue. That way the whole picture can be seen...
How would you address this issue?
I know my position is the minority on RP. That's fine. I tend to take a contrarian view on a lot of issues. Discussions that are one-sided never explore all the issues. My goal is to always ask questions and prompt dialogue. That way the whole picture can be seen...
Cpl Andrew Tucker
I believe the treaty will lull us, as a whole -- not the brave men and women of the lettered agencies who's job it is to keep track of these things -- into a false sense of security. America would never deem to break a treaty of such import; if we did, then the whole world would follow suit. Whether other countries like it or not, they look to America as a beacon. If we falter, so shall they. I say this not as a proud American, but as a world traveler.
I don't feel that there is currently a good plan to address this issue other than constant vigilance. A UN nuke team, whether American led or not, is never shown the full picture. Sometimes, the full picture doesn't show up until years afterwards. Look at Iraq and the WMDs. WMDs were found in Iraq, but no one knew until years later.
I don't feel that there is currently a good plan to address this issue other than constant vigilance. A UN nuke team, whether American led or not, is never shown the full picture. Sometimes, the full picture doesn't show up until years afterwards. Look at Iraq and the WMDs. WMDs were found in Iraq, but no one knew until years later.
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Suspended Profile
Cpl Andrew Tucker I argued with many when GWB passed Medicare Part D. Everyone was complaining about what horrible legislation it was. My take was at least he made an effort to fix a problem that no-one before him was addressing. The same applies to the ACA.
Apart from the treaty, I see two options:
1) Do nothing- maintain the status quo. How does that make us more secure?
2) Go to war with Iran. We don't have the manpower, money or political will to do that...
So, what would you do to address this issue?
Apart from the treaty, I see two options:
1) Do nothing- maintain the status quo. How does that make us more secure?
2) Go to war with Iran. We don't have the manpower, money or political will to do that...
So, what would you do to address this issue?
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Amen, brother. I've seen the naval arm of the Repblican Guard in action and they are some arrogant little pissants. They must have so much power at home that they forget themselves when in international waters. Funny part is I'm surprised their "warships" float.
I am sure that this "Peace in Our Time" deal will blow up in our face.
I am sure that this "Peace in Our Time" deal will blow up in our face.
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I don't honestly believe that the President what have gone into this Deal if he didn't feel it was best for the Country. However, it is a strong Gamble. But what are the Alternatives? And even if we have Alternatives, what Iran agreed to them?
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Cpl Andrew Tucker, why worry about a few nukes when we have a a lot of nukes. Do you worry about the criminals with guns, hell no, you buy guns too. It is not about liberal vs conservative it is about say go for it, make my day!
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Cpl Andrew Tucker
I do worry about criminals with guns. Not for myself, but for my family. Same goes for Iran with nukes.
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CPT Pedro Meza
Cpl Andrew Tucker - then get more guns and nukes, "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
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