What are your thoughts on the "Fight for $15?"

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:06:18 -0500

Fast food and other service workers are uniting to demand the minimum wage be set at $15 an hour. They also want a union. What are your thoughts? The personal feelings I have are mixed. Fast food is supposed to be a starter job for most. Of course I don't live in a large city. But then again, most fast food workers I have encountered aren't the sharpest spork in the plastic wrap. What say you?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 5 at 2013 10:15 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:15:26 -0500

Can the companies reaping billions in profits afford this? Yes, yes they can. The U.S. does not pay every wage in it's borders, that would be their employer.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2013 10:53 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:53:54 -0500

Sure we can afford it. That is if we want inflation to match. Because these salaries, wages will be mirror such inflation.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2013 11:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:06:52 -0500

There should be no minimum wage. If a worker and employees agree on a rate their should be no law that prevents that.

The minimum wage kills entry level jobs and hurts the poor.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2013 11:25 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:25:38 -0500

Who aspires to work minimum wage jobs?  A basic understanding of economics will reveal that this is stupid. Why should a cashier at Wendys make more money than a SPC in the military. 

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 5 at 2013 11:41 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 23:41:49 -0500

If companies can afford to pay athletes millions of dollars to play a game and hawk sneakers, I think they can afford this..

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 6 at 2013 1:47 AM

SFC James Baber — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 01:47:20 -0500

That fight currently sent McDonald's workers on strike today, no Big Macs for you today.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 9:41 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:41:11 -0500

Insanity - this isn't professional sports (which is out of control anyways)! The current market value for jobs that usually pay minimum wage - are not worth $15/hr. If this were to occur, you would see several low end/minimum wage jobs replaced by automation. Seriously, $15 to be the fry cook at a fast food restaurant? Laughable.

Response by SGT Tom Cal made Dec 6 at 2013 10:00 AM

SGT Tom Cal — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:00:25 -0500

"Minimum Wages and Poverty: Will a $9.50 Federal Minimum Wage Really Help the

Working Poor?" Joseph J. Sabia* and Richard V. Burkhauser, Southern Economic Journal 2010, 76(3), 592–623

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~lrazzolini/GR2010.pdf

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Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 10:06 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 10:06:43 -0500

We can not raise the minimum wage for unskilled workers to be on par with skilled workers. If the minimum wage went up 7.5 dollars I would expect my wages to go up a similar amount, no that wouldn't be right either because that is a 100% increase in wages so my wage should go up 20 dollars and hour. Oh this makes my head hurt, why do so many adults end up working a dead end job at places that only offer minimum wage. Maybe if we can get to the bottom of this and figure a way for these people to get better jobs and leave the minimum wage jobs for kids and students. Also I know several people that they would end up losing money because of all the state benefits they gain from being in the poverty level 15$ an hour would put them just above and lose healthcare, housing, and foodstamps.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 11:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:18:08 -0500

Inflation....inflation....inflation.   If Min Wage doubles or increases significantly it pushes the pay scale across the board.   The person who has worked for several years and is making $15/hr now wants $20-25/hr, with a ripple effect across the payscale.   The same work is being done, but the "dollar" so speak now has less value.   Prices of everything goes up, but in essence nothing has changed.  No new work is going to be produced with the new raise.  If anything it sets off a chain reaction of inflation which is being held in check by artificially low interest rates.   As a nurse speaking now - You think healthcare is expensive now, wait till you have to pay every health worker and across the board 20%-30% raise.  

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 11:24 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:24:54 -0500

2 Possible Outcomes:

1- Automation: Machines are cheaper than overpaid unskilled labor. (Overpaid as defined my market conditions.) If the government has to artificially inflate wages to double the current artificially inflated rate, then cheaper non-health insurance requiring machines may be the answer.

2- Further marginalization of the uneducated, and unskilled.
OK So now McDonald's is paying 15 an hour, which means that all the unemployed workers who refused to apply to McDonald's because of the lower wages, will now apply( So long as their bottom income point isn't above 15.00/hour). Because 'better' employees are available, McDonald's will fire those less desireable employees that they 'had' to keep because of what they were willing to accept as their pay rate.

Because they have 'better' employees they will need fewer employees (and in fact will be able to afford fewer employees based on current payroll budgets).

I am OK with this insomuch as I get a better product, faster. However, It may also result in an increase in price (Which is also fine since I am getting a better product, faster) relative to the markets tolerance to price increase( In other words, 'How expensive will people let a Big Mac get before they stop buying').

So here are your Endstates:

1- More entry level technical jobs available (to fix the newly fielded machines). With possibly 100's of thousands newly out of work, and on government welfare (As opposed to the McWelfare they were receiving)

2- People who 'could only get a job at Walmart or McDonald's' now completely marginalized, and unemployable, with about half as many people coming off the unemployment rolls (and onto the Under Employment rolls) to fill the vacant spots, and a few high-speed McWorkers moving up a bit on the under employment rolls.

Either way, not the Utopian Paradise Economic Liberals seem to think it will be.

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Dec 6 at 2013 11:56 AM

SFC Josh Watson — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:56:52 -0500

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs.  These jobs were not designed to be a sole source of income.  They were for kids in high school needing experience or as a supplement to another source of income.  People are just not willing to get out of their comfort zone and do what it takes to get meaningful work i.e. college, military, trade school.  Just like politicians, entry level jobs were never meant to be careers.  If you have minimum skills, minimum work ethic, minimum motivation and minimum drive, why should you get more than what you deserve.  This is just another example of freeloading, self entitled, lazy people that depend on someone else's labor. Those are my thoughts.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Dec 6 at 2013 12:02 PM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:02:51 -0500

I don't think it's a good idea. The idea of a living wage is trying to hit a fast moving target with a pea shooter. If you raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars, then every other industry will feel the need to increase their wages. The added costs of labor will drive prices up further, which means that those now making 15 dollars an hour will not be able to afford to live any better with a higher wage.

The other possible outcome is that if labor costs go up, companies will automate to shed labor costs. I think the only thing that has prevented that from happening so far is the lower costs of labor compared to the upfront costs of buying automation equipment.

Minimum wage should not be a career goal it should be a starting point that they seek to rise above through self improvement, education, and pursuing higher and higher career positions.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 6 at 2013 1:20 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:20:02 -0500

This is an amazing video on welath distrobution in America. I promise you that you will be shocked. Im not saying I agree with minimum wage but this is absolutely amazing. Definately worth your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

Wealth Inequality in America

Infographics on the distribution of wealth in America, highlighting both the inequality and the difference between our perception of inequality and the actua...

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 6 at 2013 1:30 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:30:05 -0500

<p>As a small business owner here is my take on the minimum wage.  Wages are just like prices for goods that you sell.  You are usually paying for what the thing you are buying can do and how well it does it.</p><p>I pay my employees starting at $12/hr basically doing inventory and counting things.  That is a very good wage.  It is very competitive for the skillset and when I am hiring I get 1000's of resumes'.  Most fast food workers make MORE than min. wage.  They currently make about $9/hr.  Now for a 16 year old kid to expect to make $15/hr which is what some LPN's make is obsurd.  Look at the difference in skillset.</p><p>How much money my business makes does not change how much your work is worth.  Of course I provide incentives when they directly increase revenue they receive a bonus.  But whether my business make $600K/year or $5million/year doesnt change the fact that you are a secretary and are paid a competitve rate for that position.</p><p>I dont think there should be a minimum wage at all just like there's not a maximum wage.  If you want to make more then aspire to do more.  Starting and running a successfull business is a tremendous risk.  There's no minimum wage for me if my business isnt succesful.  </p><p>Wages should be competitive just like prices of goods.  If the wage is too low for you then dont take the job.  Wages will go up if business owners cant hire anyone.  The fact that they can hire you or someone else for that price let's you know how much that job is worth.  Your family is YOUR responsibility, not your employers.</p>

Response by SPC Rachel Stubbs made Dec 6 at 2013 1:45 PM

SPC Rachel Stubbs — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:45:51 -0500

If you can't even get my simple order for my children's kids meal right, then you don't deserve 15 an hour. On average entry level police ofiicer make about $13 an hour, and someone with no skills wants to make 15 dollars for flipping burgers. Not gonna happen.<br>

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 6 at 2013 3:19 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:19:15 -0500

Performance based bonuses for executives might be impacted in order to keep costs down to a level that customers may be willing to pay... Damn, that'll suck.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 6 at 2013 3:24 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:24:36 -0500

Working poor is ultimately what the problem is. I don't want to be paying taxes to subsidize people with welfare. When you work 35+ hours per week and can still collect food stamps (this includes a junior enlisted family of 4) there is a problem. Somebody is paying. I'd rather it be the employer, who passes the cost on to me, rather than my taxes. At least that way I know what my money is being spent on.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 6 at 2013 5:09 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 17:09:53 -0500

If you want to raise min. wage to $15/hr thats fine.  What you will have then is half as many jobs and less businesses.  So those folks complaining about their $9/hr will now be making $0/hr.

Response by SSG Terry Back (Martin-Back) made Dec 6 at 2013 8:43 PM

SSG Terry Back (Martin-Back) — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 20:43:01 -0500

As a business owner, I believe a minimum wage is for those who choose to work at a minimum standard. I have seen people with MBA's working at minimum wage jobs and in some cases, they were being over paid. I like my industry; real estate and construction. In real estate, you can elect to work hard with a plan and it will relate on how large your income will be. In construction, I bid on projects and I have a base line I will work for and if I win a bid, I have to watch the cost to insure I can meet my ROI. Many non-business owners do not realize what how small most profit margins companies work on; 5%-10% is average. So if I hire someone and pay them $15 per hour, (reality is my cost is $19.20 per hour), will they promise me that their work efforts will return a profit to me .96 per hour? If my employee can not assist me in making a profit, then there is no need to hire that person or keep them in my employ. So the question is; if I pay you $768 gross per week, will you promise me a profit of $38.40.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 9:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:39:38 -0500

I HOPE that never happens, I think we'd go broke...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 10:50 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:50:09 -0500

The real sticking point or at least one of them is that people currently making 15 dollars an hour, should they get a raise consistent with the increase for people making let's say 7.50. Do they now get $22.50. I tell you what, hard working people who devote themselves and make it to 15 on their own WILL be resentful.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 7 at 2013 12:35 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:35:51 -0500

I'll let this guy say it for me... http://lowpayisnotok.org/

National fast food strike and protests!

We asked former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich why fast food workers are striking today. You need to share his answer with anyone who just doesn't get it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 1:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:58:33 -0500

Every employer whom didn't get put out of Business by this would then raise their prices to cover the cost and to make a little profit. This would not benefit anyone and would make the raise of wages, pointless.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 1:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:58:34 -0500

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 7 at 2013 3:43 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 03:43:40 -0500

So lets get this straight, Jimmy who is a junior in high school gets a part time job at McDonald's as a crew member is going to make $15 if the minimum is raised? If this were to happen, I just will decide more wisely on where to shop and cutting out fast food restaurants out of my routine will be reality for me and many others.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 12:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:09:55 -0500

No it should not...!!!!!!!!! Absolutely the wrong answer!!!!!!!!! We should conserve the value of the dollar as much as possible during fiscal difficulties. If decisions are made to federally raise minimum wage across the country we are exercising the right to pay double or triple the cost of commodities we currently pay for (EUROPE is in this crisis already look at GREECE). Meaning gas will be more expensive and less justified for its cost. Milk and eggs will cost a months pay... you get the idea. We have socially accepted that a gallon of gas costs 3 dollars or more per gallon. That is our fault...shame on us. The war did not raise fuel costs; Americans frightened over conflict did and we never went back to our leaders to confront them and ask why not since the conflicts have reduced or been eliminated we are paying even more than before when the war started. I remember when I paid only 98cents per gallon in 1995. That means whatever the cost in the 20s was it only possibly increased 60%(south Dakota 1923 gas cost about 26.6cents per gallon (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_cost_of_gallon_of_gas_in_1920#slide4) in almost 70 years. http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

The problem I have with consumers is not consumers its the inability of consumers to question their own hard earned dollars compensate the cost of daily functioning. That is why the gov't sent a simple message approving all the unemployment. It is cheaper to be on unemployment than actually work and provide a service to the country. There is serious neglect on the part of our gov't considering raising minimum wages. It will be a fiscal CHERNOBYL if something like this gets approved over the long term. I have serious doubts it will change for the better as far as industrial and commercial growth are concerned. I fear that even more efforts will need to be concentrated on those receiving public program support costing working Americans lots of wasted dollars.

WE SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THE IMPORTANT ISSUES: GETTING OUT OF THE NEXT FISCAL NIGHTMARE (COLLEGE LOANS), MAKE HOMEPURCHASING AND SELLING AFFORDABLE AND REASONABLE FOR YESTERDAYS ECONOMY; AND FOCUS MORE ENERGY INTO HEALTHY LIVING HABITS WHILE RELYING ON LESS TECHNOLGY. Raising a pay scale wont do it. It will make us more reliant on the gov't for support and less resilient. We will just continue down a dark path of laziness and hand out mentalities. Or end up where we are now in the military with new recruits over 35 with multiple profiles probably eventually non deployable because the small (civilian) companies that could have hired them cannot afford too. So now we are stuck with an less trainable force and less expeditionary force short term that won't endure a fight.

What was cost of gallon of gas in 1920?

(From the WSJ)

Gasoline Price History

The following plots show how much I paid for each gallon of gas I bought over the past 34 years or so. The data has a somewhat varied pedigree. Most of the purchases from 1979-1982 were in the Rio Vi...

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 7 at 2013 2:01 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:01:45 -0500

If you've got minimum skills, minimum education, show minimum motivation, and provide minimum contribution, why should someone be forced to pay you more than the minimum?

You GET what you GIVE.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 2:09 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:09:40 -0500

Wrong answer! Tell part-timers to go out & get 2nd or 3rd job, or work and train harder, then EARN a higher position/ better career. Go to Europe if you want handouts, or sitting on your backsides. These babies sound like budding socialists!

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 2:27 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:27:07 -0500

Sorry - Meant Government kindness.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 3:43 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 03:43:47 -0500

Raising minimum wage only serves to remove more incentive for those living in lower than middle class to advance their lives, just like welfare, Medicaid, endless unemployment, the affordable care act, snap, the list goes on, and on, and on. The FACT is that minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be long term careers, they are supposed to be stepping stones to more, jobs for high school students, kids in collage, people trying to get back on their feet. The more we increase the minimum wage the less value skilled jobs have and the less people will aspire to them. It's rediculas, to raise minimum wage to the levels paid to skilled laborers.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 3:44 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 03:44:29 -0500

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 8:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 20:49:18 -0500

No. Raising the minimum wage will increase the cost of goods and services and make the raise be for nothing anyway. Yes, it will "stimulate the economy" for about 3 months until the effects start being felt by everyday America and bam, right back in the same spot we are now. Not only that, but will also, as stated by others, be detrimental to entry level positions in the corporate world. Not a good idea at all in my opinion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2013 9:37 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:37:20 -0500

I personally think that demanding more to flip a burger or change out the fries is dumb as sh!t. If you don't want to make minimum wage then try to aspire to do more for yourself...

Response by SGT James P. Davidson, MSM made Dec 9 at 2013 10:36 AM

SGT James P. Davidson, MSM — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:36:35 -0500

Experience speaks:

My wife and I owned a residential and commercial cleaning business. We started the business with $295 cash. We worked our first year (eight month, seasonal) in the residential portion, and made a whopping $4,000. Year two saw the commercial aspect begin. We hired as needed. Still a sole-proprietorship, we kept the profits (in a business account). Our rate of pay for those we hired was above the Federal and state minimum wage. At first, we hired our cleaning technicians at $12.50/hr. That left no room for raises, no room for bonuses, and very little room for profit. We scaled back to an $8.50 starting wage, and then could offer cash bonus incentives and raises. By the time we sold the business (at the beginning of year three), the business was set to profit (with no income changes) $250,000. We paid out roughly $108,000 per year in salaries, with payroll taxes almost matching dollar for dollar. We also paid worker's compensation insurance (in two states), liability insurance ($1m worth) (in two states), bonding (in two states), Christmas parties (including travel expenses and boarding for our out of state employees AND their families), birthday parties for our employees, supply costs, gas, uniforms, advertising costs, et cetera.

We sold the business with tens of thousands of dollars in the business account, our own office, a television commercial, radio ads, newspaper ads, equipment and supplies fully stocked, and no outstanding debt (credit, loans, et cetera) against the business, along with the full complement of residential and commercial clients.

Had we been forced to pay a $15 minimum wage, our business would not have survived, let alone excelled. Our employees would have had no raises to look forward to, no bonuses to earn. We probably would have had to drop our commercial accounts and more than three-quarters of our employees (making them jobless), and run a select residential-only service.

As for payroll, my wife, the sole owner of the business, made about 30% more than I did, and she was the second-highest paid employee (yes, she was an employee, as we became a corporation) in the company.

Minimum wage laws give the government control and authority over private-sector companies, and destroy the ability to produce at full capacity. We paid a fair wage, and did not expect our employees to live their lives working as house and business cleaners. We anticipated a high turn-over rate, as scrubbing toilets is not meant to last one in to retirement.

Doubling today's minimum wage by law or mandate is going to kill small businesses, and seriously damage larger ones. Do we really want to see unemployment skyrocket like that?

Response by MAJ David Labrie made Dec 10 at 2013 6:12 AM

MAJ David Labrie — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 06:12:28 -0500

A minimum wage is just that, a minimum wage. It is not meant to be a job that will provide enough resources to raise a family. It is for the person that is just starting out in the workforce. It is there to teach them responsibility, "showing up on time in a clean presentable manner". The end result if an increase in the minimum wage will be a reduction in jobs, because of automation. The minimum wage job is a stepping stone to greater opportunities. That's it.

Response by SPC Robert Jewell Sr made Dec 10 at 2013 7:26 AM

SPC Robert Jewell Sr — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 07:26:56 -0500

Economically it will be bad for the US. The simple things will double in cost. Unions will push for double digit changes in all other areas. Even my current job would have to double. Entry level technician in this industry is 13.00 per hour. Do the math it will not work.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2013 8:17 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:17:35 -0500

Sometimes service members can be out of touch with the realities of civilian America.  At least a half dozen people have pointed out that minimum wage jobs are not supposed to support families.  But the reality is that right now, with the current state of our economy, there are not other higher paying jobs to be had.  <div><br></div><div>Only CW2 Evans has brought up what I feel to be the real problem, which is that companies that pay minimum wage are relying on the federal and state government to fill in the gap low wages create with food stamps and other public assistance support.  </div><div><br></div><div>The reason that the market cannot adjust to a living wage is because 1) right now it is an employer's market.  There are more people in need of work than there are jobs; basic economics will tell you that this deflates wages. 2) People can survive on minimum wage because social welfare programs make it possible.  </div><div><br></div><div>Recent calls to eliminate social welfare programs are misguided.  You are punishing the victims.  Many of the people who demand this, follow their comments up with "get a job!"  Again, this is out of touch with the reality that these people have jobs.  Welfare beneficiaries <span class="ft" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 16px;">who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a <span style="font-weight: bold;">working</span> household — received only 9% of the benefits.  What a lot of people are saying is that the working poor should not be paid a living wage *and* should not get social support.  And the end game there is what?</span></div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, employers whose employees receive social welfare should have to repay those funds as part of their tax liability, pro-rated by hours worked/percentage of income (you are probably reaching for the thumbs down button, but read the whole thing first).  This would encourage employers to pay a living wage, it would eliminate some of the fraud of employers under-reporting wages ("under the table" payments) and the fraud of people receiving unreported wages and social welfare, and would solve the issue of jobs for high school kids - they are not eligible to apply for social welfare programs.  It would lower the number of people on the welfare roles and would avoid setting up the kind of false economy that a $15 minimum wage would surely cause.  Wouldn't employers just pass the tax cost on to consumers?  Initially, but if more people came off social welfare programs, taxes would go down overall.  Employers would have the flexibility to assume the tax hit for some of their employees rather than raise wages across the board, which would probably be cheaper for them.  It would allow them to create incentives for hard work by paying bonuses (for example), rather than being forced to pay all workers the same.  </div><div><br></div><div>Just a thought...</div>

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 8:58 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:58:23 -0500

MAJ Miller - agreed to a point. People are forgetting the 2nd/3rd order effects that come with dramatic increases such as a $15/hr minimum wage. Using the professional athlete model - we also pay on average $75 (or more) per ticket to a NFL game, $8+ for hot dog/hamburger, $6+ for a soda, $10+ for a beer, not to mention parking costs, etc... so essentially - one person for a day/night out at a NFL game...you will easilly spend $100+ for a single person to attend a game.

Correlate that to a $15/hr fry cook at McDonald's...you'll see the end of dollar value menu's, overall price increases across the board of the menu items. That's just the fast food industry. I'm not against an increase for minimum wage - but to essentially double minimum wage...that's pure insanity from an economics standpoint.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 9:22 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 09:22:39 -0500

What gets me is how the group that is demanding the raise act as if the majority is with them, but there is no way that is possible; there are hundreds of jobs that should see a pay raise instead of those protesting for it (fast food workers).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 5:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:55:10 -0500

I'm not sure if anyone has discussed this angle...

If the minimum wage is increased, how will that affect us in the military? The cost of living will increase! Congress still has its best intentions for itself, therefore, it would be a very long time before we would see an increase in pay that would align with the cost of living off-post. In no sense of the word would an increase benefit anyone.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made Dec 14 at 2013 12:30 PM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:30:27 -0500

<p class="MsoNormal">A government mandated minimum wage makes about as much sense
as a government mandated maximum wage.  That is, none. <br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">And frankly, I hate hearing people compare enlisted pay to minimum wage.  Higher or lower (depending on who you talk to or how you calculate it) there is no comparison.  None.  Enlisting in the US Armed forces is volunteering to put your life, comfort, and personal considerations subsidiary to the well being of our nation.  Even the guy signing up to be a Chair Force mechanic is volunteering to be thrown into harms way with no notice what so ever at the whim and need of our nation.  Comparing that to a cashier at Walmart is like trying to compare being a snorkeling instructor to an astronaut.  </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">So yes, if you are a E-4 with a 9-5 duty, your making it out pretty good.  If your an E-1 in combat for 12 months, probably not so much.  But it is what it is.  for those who say enlisted make so much more then minimum wage, I say good, they deserve it.  For those who say they make to little I say no, they volunteered for it.  <br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">And if your walmart minimum wage job doesn't make enough, get a plan to get a better one.  If your not smart enough to do that you can always join the Marines (heh).  To lazy and to dumb, um I dunno, tough nuggets I guess.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p>

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Dec 18 at 2013 11:11 AM

SFC Josh Watson — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:11:19 -0500

So I hear a lot of people referring to the big companies like McDonalds, Burger King and so forth on this subject. I think what a lot of people fail to realize is how it will affect the small business owners; The "Ma and Pop" restaurants, independent small town gas stations, corner stores and such. I think that the "Big companies" can afford it, that's just my opinion. They have the profit margin to cover the swing. The small business owners, however, may just be keeping their heads above water with the current minimum wage requirements. Let's say Bill has a small restaurant and employs six people. The government says, "Hey Bill, you need to start paying your employees 15 dollars an hour now" Bill says "OK, but in order to do that, I have to let three people go because I can only afford x for employee wages." Bill fires those three employees and now, those three become dependent on government support while the other three have to work longer hours to cover the loss of man power. This increase in hours means Bill has to pay more and ends up going under and loses his business. Now there are seven people depending on the government. I know, this is pretty extreem, but its not impossible. If the minimum wage must increase do it in smaller amounts over time so it doesn't become a burden on the small business owners. Or better yet, if employees think they "deserve" more, maybe they should put on their grown up pants and take it up with their boss and not depend on the government to do it for them.

Response by Capt Andre Toman made Dec 18 at 2013 8:13 PM

Capt Andre Toman — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:13:44 -0500

Horrible idea...While this sounds appealing at face value, one can easily recognize those nasty "unintended consequences," which lurk upon deeper inspection.

Do a quick thought experiment...imagine a law put in place that would double the wages of everyone. If you are making $20k a year, now you are making $40k. If you are making $300 million, you are now making $600 million. Is anyone really richer? Will economics not bring everything back into equilibrium. Now everything is going to cost twice as much, which leaves us where?

Don't like that point...what about all the small businesses that are going to be hammered because they are going to have to shed jobs. The profits will go down, the ones that the law is "trying to help" are going to have higher unemployment rates. Now who pays? Well, the simple answer is you and me, the taxpayer. We should probably extend unemployment benefits indefinitely if we want to put this law into place. We'll probably have to tax the $15.00/hour worker at 50% to make it worth it for all the displaced workers.

You will price out the low skilled, less educated workers and create an underemployment problem. Now, the college educated, unemployed individual who was holding out for a $15.00/hour job is standing in place of the equally (or perhaps more) capable individual who really needs the job and doesn't have the same education level.

Market clearing wages correspond with the value added provided by the work. I will readily concede to dissenters that sometimes the wages are too sticky and some people are being over or under-compensated, but this is just the way things are, and they are temporary as economics pushes things back to equilibrium.

With that kind of law in place, expect a lot more outsourcing. Again, this hurts those we are "trying to help."

Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime. A more compelling solution would be to properly and prudently incentivize our workforce to fill more value added jobs. With that comes rising "real" wages versus rising nominal wages.

This is not an all inclusive list of reasons to not mandate an artificially high minimum wage. We should allow federalism to take place--those states that want to put this policy in place, go for it; those that don't, don't. We'll see how it turns out. My bet is two to one odds that the states that don't will be much better off and so will its citizens.

Response by SGT Tom Cal made Dec 19 at 2013 7:47 PM

SGT Tom Cal — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 19:47:04 -0500

Andre Toman - I do not follow your thought experiment. Is anyone proposing we raise wage of all workers? Correct me if I am wrong, but who has proposed we double the wage of folks earning more than $15 per hour?

Response by SGT Thomas Brown made Dec 29 at 2013 8:50 PM

SGT Thomas Brown — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 20:50:41 -0500

I feel that this idea is one of the most mind blowing idea's brought up. I feel that we all have to start somewhere in our lives and need to progress from there. The fact that people want the minimum wage just shows that people aren't willing to work for a higher position of employment. The fact that a minimum wage job should have a starting salary of roughly 28,000 just for a low end job. This would cause issues such as managers that get paid around this would want more pay for their positions that they worked. This will only drive down the value of the dollar even more than it already is. This is something that shouldn't be even up for consideration in my opinion.

Response by SrA Eric Olsen made Dec 31 at 2013 1:17 AM

SrA Eric Olsen — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:17:28 -0500

I totally disagree with raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Minimum wage jobs are generally meant to be entry level jobs that enable individuals to start getting experience before looking for something better. Another issue is that they are generally unskilled labor jobs. I am a skilled telecom technician with 13 years in the low voltage and telecom fields and due to a layoff I now don't make much more than the $15 dollar an hour. A co-worker of mine and I have had several talks about this and we both agree that it is not a good idea. Those of us in skilled trades who don't make much might see it along the lines as an insult to us. Anyone can flip a burger but it takes someone with skill and knowledge to work on telecom equipment. A $15 an hour minimum wage is not a good move for this country.

Response by SSG Andrew Dydasco made Dec 31 at 2013 5:47 PM

SSG Andrew Dydasco — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:47:19 -0500

People get paid for bringing value to the marketplace. Now, it takes time to bring value to the marketplace, but we don't get paid for time. It's very important for people to understand that. One might argue, "Well I'm making $20 for an hour!" -- Not true! If that was true you could just stay home and have them send you money. No, you get paid for the VALUE you put INTO the time. Now since that's true, here's a key question: Is it possible to become twice as valuable, and make twice as much money, in the same amount of time? How about three times? Is that possible? OF COURSE! All you have to do to make more money in the same amount of time is to simply become more valuable.

America's unique; it's a ladder to climb. Right now it starts around what? $7 an hour? The big argument right now is where the starting point is: "Should be 15! Should be 10! Should be 8! There should be no minimum!" Well, it doesn't need to be 15, and it doesn't need to be 10 or 8. What's wrong with the current wage? It's a ladder! A ladder to climb. It's not a bed. So it starts at around $7 right now, and people are saying, "Should be $15! Should be $15! Should be $15!" Well.... Maybe. If you're planning on staying at the bottom your whole life, maybe it should be $15. But that's sort of a pitiful way to live -- start and not grow? Start and not change? Start and not become more valuable?

So, America's ladder starts at around $7 an hour, and the top income last year was around $400 million. Now, the question is, would a company really pay someone that much money? The answer is: OF COURSE! If you help a company make $20 billion, would they pay you $400 million? OF COURSE! It's chicken feed! "Well, why that much money though?" Because he/she has become so: VALUABLE.

"Why do we pay some people only $7 an hour?" Well, because they're not very valuable to the MARKETPLACE (also known as 'reality'). There are many values. You can be a valuable parent, a valuable member of the community or church. But to the marketplace, which is called 'reality', reality is if you're not very valuable, you don't get much MONEY. Those are called: the FACTS! It's blunt. But it's true, and timeless.

People say, "Well, I'll just go on strike for more money." Well, here's a major problem with that: You can't get rich by demand.
"Well I'm waiting for a raise." I'm telling you, it's easier to climb than to WAIT for a raise. Why not just become more valuable rather than wait? Why would we pay someone $500 an hour? They've become more valuable. I'm telling you, this stuff is so easy. This is America, it's a LADDER. How far is it from $7 to $8? It's not far. If you work at McDonalds and take out the trash you'll get $7 an hour. If you WHISTLE while you take out the trash you'll get $8 an hour. I'm tellin' ya, you'll get an extra dollar just for having a good attitude. $8, and then you just keep becoming more valuable, more valuable, more valuable.

"The key is to work harder on yourself than you do on your job. If you work hard on your job, you'll make a living. If you work hard on yourself? You'll make a fortune." -- Jim Rohn

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 29 at 2014 6:57 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:57:50 -0500

$15 an hour is a bit much, but I agree fully with the idea of $10.10 an hour that was brought up in the SOTUA last night. *Gasp* the first time I've agreed with this President about anything.

Response by Capt Andre Toman made Jan 30 at 2014 10:13 AM

Capt Andre Toman — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 10:13:48 -0500

Raising the minimum wage would create strong incentives to automate many jobs that are low wage.  We've seen it in warehouse operations (Zappos), but now it is appearing in the services industry.  An article by Michael Saltsman called "The Employee of the Month Has a Battery" was published yesterday, online in the Wall Street Journal.  One cannot ignore the effect this will have on workers who could be replaced by technology. I think it has more negative effects on those it is supposed to be helping than positive effects.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2014 10:29 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 10:29:59 -0500

No, it shouldn't. An increase in the minimum wage may seem a great idea to some, but we are not looking at what this will do to the economy. Increasing the minimum wage does not increase peoples odds of moving into the middle class, it increases their stagnation in these non skilled positions and reduces their motivation for a better job and life. These minimum wage jobs are ment for high school students, and those either trying to get into the work force or get back into it. They arent ment as careers to sustain a family. With the right training and schooling people can move up withing these companies, from minimum wage to management and so on but when I was working at Wal-Mart as a 16 year old, I wasnt aspiring to one day be a Store Manager. Come on! This will also only serve to reduce the number of jobs, employers will not be able to maintain the number of workers that they have at higher levels of pay, it is a reality that people need to understand. If minimum wage doubles, jobs will be lost.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2014 12:11 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 00:11:47 -0500

MSG Quick,

Raising minimum wage raises the bar to employment. All it does is make it harder to enter the job field, increasing your chance of life long dependency on the government, as well as increase the cost of living. I could make $1m a month, but that's pointless if my rent is going to be 60% of that. People pushing for a so-called "livable wage" need to understand that those in poverty in America typically live better than the rest of the world, including most "middle classes" in prominent nations such as France, Great Britain, Poland, Germany, Brazil, etc.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 7:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:09:16 -0500

there are several problems with increasing the minimum wage one being inflation the people that are barley getting by now making more then minimum wage will no longer be able to survive because the cost of living will go up because companies will have to increase the cost of their services to pay the new wages and still be profitable and the people working the minimum wage jobs still will not have as much disposable money as people would like to think because they will be in a new tax bracket requiring them to pay more in taxes and with the new health care laws requiring everyone to purchase healthcare or be fined by the government they may actually bring home less money and still not be able to afford to live. In the end if the minimum wage increases all we will do is create more poor people that can not live on the wages they are getting causing more people to rely on the government to survive and a bigger tax burden on everyone else.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2014 10:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:16:40 -0500

The way my grandfather explained it to me back when I was a teenager was to look at the cost of everything you buy as hours wage if you think about it a hamburger fries and coke cost around 1 hour wage of min. wage was that way when min wage started liked that in the 90 when I was working fast food like that today. I have been working civilian sector for 18 years as an adult and the biggest thing that I have seen that the min. wage sector is yes there is a hard time with finding jobs but even harder when you have to find one that doesn't drug test. I know several people that has degrees that have to work in the fast food industry for this reason.

Response by SGT James Eastling made Mar 11 at 2014 3:53 PM

SGT James Eastling — Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:53:14 -0400

I think economically it's a crap deal.  I don't know all the details, but I read a line somewhere that minimum wage only applies to companies that gross (or net?) over a certain amount each year, but this may have been false.  Whether or not this is true, the raising of minimum wage in an across-the-board manner would destroy many economic areas, simply because many (most?) small businesses, especially single location mom-and-pop-types, barely have enough profits at the end of the year to stay in business, much less pay an extra ~$15k per person they're staffed with.<br><br>What would end up happening is a large number of these smaller businesses would either let people go, or completely go under.  Either way, now the economy is plunged even further behind because the only places to get hired are giant chains where everyone from the former new hire to the now bankrupt owner are competing for the same jobs, all on top of everyone who was already looking for work.<br><br>It seems to me that some people want the only places of employment to be McD's, Wal-Mart, etc., where they can be choosy on their hires because they have 3 spots to fill and 400 applications.  I know this is a gross generality, but from a drone's-eye-view, it's what I see.  I know a number of comments have stated various things from 'minimum wage jobs were meant for teens,' etc., to 'get promoted and get paid more for your position'.<br><br>While I don't disagree, from my family's experience, it isn't always that easy.  When I was in school and out of the work force, my wife started and has been continually working for a fast-food chain.  While she's got 5-6 years continuous experience, and is now an assistant manager, this national chain is by private franchise, meaning that she's worked her way up from three different locations under three different owners, and not paid through corporate payroll.<br><br>Where she is now, despite being Asst. Mngr., she's not being paid too much higher than current minimum.  She's on average twice the age of everyone except the owners, works twice as hard as most of the staff across all four or five locations these owners have, but is one of the least paid Asst. Mngr.'s on their payroll.  The problem we would have, and I can almost guarantee this is fairly universal across the country at the moment, is that if it was mandated $15/hour, most of the people she works with would be let go, some of the locations would close, and the few employees that are left would be consolidated into the remaining locations.  And if (when?) this happens, as hard as she works, I don't know which side of the 'released employees' list she'd be on.<br><br>Now, before anyone goes off and starts picking apart the fact that I'm not currently working, and how I should 'pick up some of the slack', no kidding.  As a graduated but uncertified personal trainer, I am not looked at for hire due to lack of a certification.  That's it - and I'm in the process of fixing that.<br><br>The point of my story is an example of what could and probably would happen not just to us, but to large numbers of people across the country, and certain entities (not just in our government) would be closer to getting their wish.  (Yes, I'm brushing on 'conspiracy theories', but as George Carlin once said/wrote - Paranoia, you only have to be right once to make it all worth while.)  Ignoring C.T.'s, what *is* the number of experienced, degree'd, intelligent, articulate people who are titled 'engineer' and similar, who are currently flipping burgers or doing other minimum wage jobs AND looking for new positions in their chosen fields?  I don't know the answer to this, but I would suspect more that a few.  The problem with this analogy is that too many folks with those credentials are being passed over for flipping burgers because they are 'overqualified', or viewed as an excessive expense, in the sense that with all their experience, some employers feel they would have to pay them more, and therefore go with the less or minimally experienced person because they're 19 and have fewer bills to complain about.<br><br>Do all employers think like this?  No; but the smaller the company, and especially those with smaller the annual income, the more likely this kind of thought process is going on.  Generally speaking, even if it is an engineering or similar skilled position, the owners are thinking, 'Is this person's contribution going to outweigh the ($8, $13, $45, $130) I'm paying them every hour?'  I am not a business owner (yet, I have multiple plans I'm working on), but I do have non-traditional mentoring and other things available that teach people business mentality.  This is where my general knowledge is based from.<br><br>Again, for what it's worth...<br><br><br>

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Mar 19 at 2014 10:22 AM

CPT Richard Riley — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 10:22:18 -0400

I will approach this from a company owner perspective. It would make absolutely no sense to me to hire a basic, general, position & pay $15/hr nor could I afford to do so. If the basic minimum wage is set at $15/hr then in little time every single consumable will rocket up in price to attempt to balance the cost of labor. Minimum wage is meant to be a starting point for meager skill tasks. It was never meant to be a wage that would support a family for an extended period of time.<br>Starting points are only meant to be just that - you do not stay at that level for very long because you work and progress beyond it. How fast or slow is totally dependent upon yourself and no one else. There is no rationale or logical fact that supports raising the minimum wage beyond where it stands presently. If someone finds themselves earning minimum wage, they need to improve themselves, their knowledge base and their performance to rise above that minimum level. In a nut shell it boils down to personal responsibility - no more, no less.<br>Taking a devils-advocate approach, are there situations where companies 'take advantage' of minimum wage laws and drag their feet on advancing employee wages *YES* I would certainly hope these companies are few and far between in the civilian sector.<br>I also apologize for being late to this party .....<br>

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 7:01 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:01:41 -0400

When it came out that the minimum wage would be raised to $10.10, my previous employer began looking for ways to eliminate jobs. This act would not have affected me, since I was already paid above minimum wage, but many temporary workers were told they were no longer needed.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 1 at 2014 7:10 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:10:31 -0400

Nice April Fools the only one I heard was $11 dolars which is an improvement. Who the hell would Bitch about more money. As Far as Perspective though let me throw this in the Mix. I am a Technician by trade but Technical Companies don't want you once you are 40 Plus, They get sued they lose but that doesn't change the fact they dump you. Of course the one thing ex military and ex cops can count on is a Private Security Job. What I am doing now because I am an old man. Starting in the KC Metro for Private Security is $10. Some of the companies do pay as little though as Minimum Wage. Just food for thought. When I was a Civilian Network Operations Specialist I was making $23.50 an Hour.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 4:28 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 16:28:02 -0400

I am suspicious of any issue that is merely a feel good attempt at rectifying that issue. Doubling income sounds good to politicians that make 200 dollars an hour. Make that wage 200 an hour and you will have an insurrection.

If this is an attempt to destroy fast food then it will work and those jobs will go away because those companies will be bankrupt.

And even if these companies did survive, their big Macs will go up correspondingly.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 10:20 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 22:20:14 -0400

I see a lot of hourly calculations, etc going on in this discussion - which shows a lot of interest. I'm just curious - can anyone tell me the last time the federal minimum wage was raised and by what percentage?

The main reason I ask this is not to engage in the debate regarding how a small business would or wouldn't survive in a higher minimum wage scenario. Years ago I knew a young man, who's dad worked in Detroit at one of the big 3 auto makers. He started out at some low level position - comensurate with his skills and experience - but he was making $25.40 an hour, which was the union scale for that job. You do the math - I was working 2 jobs (military active duty and a part time job) and I was making roughly 22k a year. I was well trained and had 4 years experience. My response to that scenario - choices.

Back to my original question; I seem to recall it's been several years since the minimum wage went up. If my memory is correct the federal minimum wage last went up in 2009. If you do the research you will find that the cost of living went up, on average, at least 3% each year since 1960. So, in the years following 2009, the cost of living went up 15% -while those earning minimum wage actually lost buying power every year.

Whether minimum wage jobs are actually unskilled labor or not - I can actually tell you of at least 20 individuals working at McDonalds for minimum wage and those 20 individuals have PHD's.......so they are not unskilled. Another group I am aware of have BS/BA's or Masters Degrees.

I am not saying a doubling of the minimum wage would be proper, but with the now mandatory requirement for individuals to obtain ACA coverage and those same company's that are not providing medical coverage limiting individuals to 30 hours or less per week - something has to give. The cost of living is not going to go down - leaving the minimum wage where it is can only be described as a travesty.

By the way....I happened to meet a SMG the other day....who worked at McDonalds after retirement simply because it was the only job he could get.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 9 at 2014 2:10 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 09 May 2014 14:10:58 -0400

By what right does the government impose a minimum wage requirement on any privately held business? Answer that question first. Sure, there is a legal precedent. "They did it before and they can do it again." But, does that make it right.

The whole premise to a minimum wage law is flawed. It violates the Fifth Amendment by forcing us to make a contract against our will.

Minimum wages are counter productive. Just read many of the comments already made. I don't have to pile on with more examples of the inflationary pressures created by minimum wage laws.

Finally, (for sake of time - I could go on and on), it is another case of legislation based on "good intentions" - Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 9 at 2014 3:03 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 09 May 2014 15:03:19 -0400

I don't know if $15 is the Magic Number but it most definitely needs to be raised to keep pace. Having worked both sides of the Railroad Tracks I have a much better understanding of the Debate. You are all Great and well trained individuals and deserve to be paid well as was I. Retired went to work for a Major Telecommunications Company but then the Tech Bubble burst and guess who they dump early on in the thinning process, You got it anyone over 40. If your over 40 and a Tech they don't want you. What Industry will always love Military Training but they are part of the "Service" Industry, Private Security. Which pays half of what a Senior Network Operations Specialist is worth. So you are damn right skippy I think it is High Time we started paying those in the "Service" Industry More and to say otherwise you may be spitting on a lot of Older Veterans.

Response by SSgt James Stanley made May 9 at 2014 3:54 PM

SSgt James Stanley — Fri, 09 May 2014 15:54:32 -0400

Maybe the large companies can afford to pay a $15.00 minimum wage, but the small businesses can't. By raising the minimum wage the small companies will be put between a rock and a hard place trying to pay their employees.

Response by SGT Derek Melanson made May 9 at 2014 6:12 PM

SGT Derek Melanson — Fri, 09 May 2014 18:12:20 -0400

I am not against raising minimum wage, but what I am against is raising it 100+ percent over the federal 7.25 set in 2009, I can see 10 dollars a hour that reasonable, but to double it to 15.00 and hour is simple ridiculous, If you want that kind of money get some training and stop working at mcdonalds and walmart. In addition to that raising it to 15 and hour is going to crush small business, I feel this is going to do a lot more harm then good.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 11 at 2014 6:04 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 11 May 2014 18:04:16 -0400

My 16-year just got a job...hopefully he'll make $15 per hour! haha

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 11 at 2014 10:07 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 11 May 2014 22:07:49 -0400

Is this part of the President's "redistribution of wealth" which I find to be a little socialist sounding? If an employee makes $15 an hour, are they going to work harder and not get my order wrong in the drive through at east 8 times out of 10?

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made May 18 at 2014 2:35 PM

LCpl Steve Wininger — Sun, 18 May 2014 14:35:38 -0400

Absolutely not! Minimum wage laws were put in place to prevent employers from taking advantage of workers, especially the younger workers, and essentially paying them slave wages. It was also meant to prevent child labor.

Minimum wage jobs were not meant to be a permanent job, they were for those just starting in the work force.

If a worker at Wendy's wants to make more money then they should take that up with their company and not petition the government to increase the minimum wage. Not only will this have a devastating affect on cost of goods sold and the economy, it sets a bad precedence. What happens in a year or two when workers decide they want a raise and there employer doesn't give it to them, no problem! fill the media with sob stories, get the politicians on their side and bam...twenty dollars an hour.

If they want to complain about the cost of living, then ask someone on social security, or disability how much their cost of living increase, if they get one, is.

Minimum wage should be incentive to further one's education, or to seek better paying jobs. I have worked in the maintenance and mechanics field most of my adult life, after getting out of the Marines. The most I made was thirteen dollars an hour, and I was able to live pretty good. I received formal training in certain fields.

Now, the government wants to make unskilled labor fifteen dollars an hour. Not just no, but Hell no!!!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 3 at 2014 12:19 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 12:19:40 -0500

There are two arguments that seem to prevail against raising the minimum wage.

(1) It is impractical. Economics will confound any attempt to impose artificial wages. Work has value. It creates wealth. If workers create $5 in value each hour and their employers are forced to pay $15 for each of those hours, the employers will soon fail and there won't be any jobs at any wages for anyone.

(2) Is is not a legitimate function of government to impose artificial values (wages or prices). Show me the Constitutional provision mandating this power to the federal government and I'll admit that I'm wrong. Good luck...

Response by PFC Gary Blankenship made Mar 19 at 2015 9:32 PM

PFC Gary Blankenship — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 21:32:58 -0400

Yes we should raise the medium to at least $15.00 Per hour and see if we can get Nick Hanauer to run for president. He seems to be the one out there that understands if we make more we can buy more. Thanks and God bless

Response by MCPO Brian Legg made May 20 at 2015 10:18 AM

MCPO Brian Legg — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:18:12 -0400

Here is an interesting break down of minimum wage recipients from the Heritage Foundation:

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 11:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 11:00:25 -0400

I think it is utter nonsense.

I, as a 10 year SSG in the US Army, on a 40 hour work week scale (without BAH and BAS), make $14.02 an hour. If you are working at McDonalds flipping burgers or salting fries, you SHOULD be a high school or college student working there solely for spending money. However, there are far too many people that are doing this as a career which, to me, means they screwed up somewhere in their life. McDonalds SHOULD NOT be a career, unless you are a franchise owner.

If you are complaining that you cannot get another job, JOIN THE MILITARY! Do it for 6 years, get a degree, and then get out and find a better job.

It is a direct correlation to the "No Child Left Behind" debacle. We are teaching out children they do not have to try. They can squeak by doing the bare minimum and ambition is overrated.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 9:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:16:08 -0400

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 9:24 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:24:14 -0400

Wages increase - prices increase. In the end all stays the same.

My Dad was livid because the sticker price of a car was over $4000. That was new top of the line.

Fact is a person works about the same number of hours today as one worked to buy the same item years ago.

Much ado about something that will have little or no eddfect and if it has any effect it will be very short term,

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jul 23 at 2015 3:28 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:28:06 -0400

Good idea. Raising the minimum wage is long overdue, and NY is expensive. Not sure that amount would be good for everywhere else though.

Response by SSG Lloyd Becker BSBA-HCM, MBA made Jul 23 at 2015 4:16 PM

SSG Lloyd Becker BSBA-HCM, MBA — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:16:08 -0400

Take a good look at what is happening in Seattle right now. Since the wages are going up, the workers are asking for less hours so they can stay on the welfare rolls.

http://shiftwa.org/seattle-experiences-more-consequences-of-15-minimum-wage/

Seattle experiences more consequences of $15 minimum wage

More consequences of Seattle’s $15 minimum wage are becoming apparent. According to recent reports, as their wages rise, workers are asking employers for fewer hours in hopes of keeping their overall income down—they do not want to lose access to certain welfare programs for food, child care...

Response by SGT Darryl Allen made Jul 23 at 2015 4:24 PM

SGT Darryl Allen — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:24:12 -0400

Maybe it'll help get people off welfare so I don't have to keep hearing about how poor people are leeches to society and a waste of tax payer money.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 23 at 2015 4:32 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:32:34 -0400

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/mcdonalds-announces-its-answer-to-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 23 at 2015 4:33 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:33:59 -0400

If you want to make a career out of flipping burgers to make $15 an hour, this story show how's that becoming another "pipe dream" for many.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Jul 23 at 2015 4:54 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:54:03 -0400

Look for those people to be replace by machines and unemployed soon

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Nov 11 at 2015 8:06 AM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:06:59 -0500

I think employers will cut back their hours

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 11 at 2015 8:12 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:12:40 -0500

All of these people demanding $15 an hour for minimum wage are going to price themselves out of a job. They'll be replaced by automated equipment that can do the job better faster and for more efficiently. Our country is about to see a large spike in unemployment if this is allowed to be

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 11 at 2015 8:17 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:17:14 -0500

I believe that this is "Unskilled Labor" and should be compensated as such. Generally speaking, that should be the "minimum wage" whatever that number is, whether that is dictated by the Market or by Legislation.

This is opposed to Skilled labor, like the Military, Administrative fields (Secretarial), Trades (Plumbing, HVAC, Mechanical), or anything else that requires a specific training or education to perform.

The concept of a "living wage" is frankly asinine. It's in flux, like the market itself. If you raise the base wage, inflation will rear its ugly head and you will end up with a death spiral. This isn't to say people shouldn't be paid fairly. They absolutely should, but Unskilled Labor jobs (aka Minimum Wage Jobs) are not Careers and should be viewed as "stepping stones" to Skilled Labor or Professions.

A 40 year old person demanding to be paid Skilled Labor Rates (like $15/hr) for Unskilled Labor is like a Private demanding General pay.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Nov 11 at 2015 8:21 AM

SGT Rick Ash — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:21:37 -0500

Many,many small businesses will go OUT of business if they have to pay $15 HR wages, In Washington State, Seattle alone saw close to a thousand small businesses close their doors. A lose-lose situation. Closed doors means employees are terminated....
Thanks,
Rick

Response by PO2 Brandon Boucher made Nov 11 at 2015 8:23 AM

PO2 Brandon Boucher — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:23:08 -0500

Take the fact that it is a fast food place out of it. FDR commented on the minimum wage as a standard for businesses to pay thier workers a living wage. $15 an hour doesn't cover rent in most urban centers, my wife is an Early Childhood Education teacher and is making $13 an hour while the VA is paying me to go baxk to school. We barely make ends meet. Unions are great for workers rights, I've not been in a fast food joint in a while but last time I was there seemed to be a lot of immigrant workers who barely spoke english, which is great since they were just starting out...but there are a ton of other people, not in fast food who aren't making that amount who should be.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 8:23 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:23:17 -0500

They do know they can be replaced by "automation" .... right? (Guess not)

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Nov 11 at 2015 8:23 AM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:23:19 -0500

Most industrialize nation has a higher minimum wage than the U.S. Countries such as Denmark, Germany, France, and Australia. Yet their country is thriving, how can that be possible? According to the Big Mac index, it give a good idea of the purchasing power of those country which is on par with the U.S. except their people have more money to spend. Perhaps the CEO needs to stop making more money than all of his minimum wages workers combine.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Nov 11 at 2015 8:27 AM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:27:34 -0500

It already backfired in Seattle, they priced themselves out walfare checks and many had to switch to part time hours to keep government handouts and medicaid

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Nov 11 at 2015 8:42 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:42:06 -0500

Labor, like it or not, is about supply and demand. If there are a lot of people for a position/role, the role will likely pay less. If a position/role is sought after of there are not enough people to fill the demand, the market will pay more. Basic labor positions have a high level of workers for the number of roles, consequently they pay less.

The lesson here should be to make yourself more marketable through experience/education/training etc and go after a higher paying job. In 21st century American the lesson seems to be to demand more, picket and try to force a change. They will force a change to fewer workers and more automation and fewer jobs for the same number of people. There is also the problem that no one wants to talk about which is a flood of inexpensive labor crossing our southern border. The same people complaining about their wages support a party that is undermining their market value by allowing inexpensive labor to flood the market, ta da, incredible!

Some smarter companies are now looking at using fewer higher skilled more productive) and higher paid employees. The solution for years has been to throw lower cost labor at problems. With demand for higher prices labor the solution might be fewer higher skilled employees. Not a bad thing for higher skilled people but it will be for the lower skilled.

It may not seem fair but life is not fair. If you haven't learned that lesson by 25 you are not paying attention. If you find yourself in a minimum wage job at 30 years old the problem is staring back at you in the mirror if you are willing to face it.

Taking wages up artificially is inflationary. The people that currently make $15 an hour will want more than an entry level minimum wage person (if the minimum wage goes to $15) and then comes the ripple effect through higher wages, higher cost of production and higher prices.

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Nov 11 at 2015 8:42 AM

SSG Donald Mceuen — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:42:30 -0500

Hell i did not get 15 an hour until i got my degree i know they would like 15 but can we
afforde it at this time. I think it would throw are econemy more out of line.

Response by TSgt David L. made Nov 11 at 2015 8:48 AM

TSgt David L. — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:48:43 -0500

Too much money for folks who can't count back change. Those jobs are entry level and were never designed to support your family on. Work there and expect MINIMUM wage for a minimum job. All it will do is drive the cost of fast food through the roof. Owners will have to pass the increase on to YOU, and you won't be able to feed a family of 4 for $20. Tirade over! LOL

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Nov 11 at 2015 9:01 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 09:01:09 -0500

As PO2 Brandon Boucher said, fast food workers are often used as an example, however they are not the only ones receiving minimum wage. There are also less skilled jobs which get paid more. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere between minimum wage and cost of living.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 9:18 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 09:18:52 -0500

Just say no... The jobs they are fighting for 15 were never meant to be life sustaining. They were way-points on a map to a career. They are fighting for the unemployment line, because McDonald's , et. al. aren't going to pay employees 15 when they can deploy kiosks and robots to service and cook.

Companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their investors to make a profit. What do those that think 15 is a great idea believe will happen to the prices of the goods those companies produce? They will not eat that added expense, it will be passed on to the consumer. Just like taxes, companies do not pay taxes, it's a hidden tax.

The government won't stop it because of sales taxes collected increase during inflationary (short term) periods and then decrease (long term) when those companies seek tax shelters outside of the country. Does anyone think they will deflate those costs when they become profitable?

And what does the government do when the long term short falls hit? They raise taxes hurting the people (consumers) even more because companies pass that overhead back the consumer continuing the vicious cycle.

Raising the minimum wage is a bad idea.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 10:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:18:29 -0500

CH (MAJ) William Beaver I understand the idea of a living wage and agree that the minimum wage hasn't keep up with cost of living. I think the key is to define living wage. From what I've seen, too many unskilled workers expect/demand wants as opposed to needs. A big screen TV is a WANT, a nice to have IF you can afford it. IF you want it, get some skills and a job that will provide for it.

How often do we see an interview on TV where some family in Sect 8 housing is complaining about something or other, with a big flat screen TV in the background and a Iphone 6 on the coffee table...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 10:21 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:21:55 -0500

Please, If you want to make more money then get a better job.

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Nov 11 at 2015 10:26 AM

MAJ Alvin B. — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:26:50 -0500

I think the real question here is what is a realistic base (minimum) wage for a full time employee. Associated questions include, what is the realistic minimum wage for temporary and/or seasonal workers, part time workers, agricultural workers, etc...? All of these should be addressed for there are differences. Another point for consideration centers on should there be a differential for different parts of the country as the cost of living is not universally the same. A minimum wage of $15 per hour may be too little in one place, and sustainability high in another.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 10:44 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:44:57 -0500

I think they should try applying for a job in Seattle and see if they can find one. They won't. And they will not for the reason that would be the case if this went nationwide: simple economics.
You see, at let's say Wendy's, they sell you a single quarter pound burger for $4. Of that $4, roughly $1 is food cost. Throw in about 15 cents for waste. Depending on the volume of the restaurant, utilities, rent, and equipment maintenance will cost about $1, less if the place is busier, maybe more if it is in a higher rent location like a mall or downtown. Labor cost targets for most fast food places is about 30% of gross sales. (actually 25-30%, but I'll use 30 as it is easy to figure. Wendy's happens to be 28%, bonus tier is 26%). That's another $1.20. That leaves $.80 for profit.
So if you raise wages by 50%, they make only $.20 a burger.
That leaves them with three options:
1. Raise the price per burger by $.60, or 15%. Everyone pays more. What that means in real terms is lower volume of sales, leading to option 2
2. Cut staff. With lower sales volume due to higher prices, the workers literally price themselves out of a job. Expect to see ordering kiosks and the "fast food" being much less fast.
3. Close restaurants in lower performing or higher rent locations. Where? Well, that would be rural and downtown locations, and some of the slower mall stores. Who does that hit? The very folks that the unions would have you believe they are helping. People with fewer options for employment.

Remember what happened when the Feds told fast food joints on military bases they had to pay $10.10 per hour? A bunch of locations closed within weeks. Several more announced plans to close. Not because they weren't busy. Because they could not compete with off-post fast food, due to the requirement that they pay more but charge at least the same as off-post locations. Convenience is overruled, and places close. And dependents can't get a part time job.

Economics isn't hard. It just requires you to think ahead more than one move.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 11 at 2015 10:47 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:47:57 -0500

Entry level jobs for unskilled workers should NOT be making a living wage. Want to make a living wage, get a job that supports it, meaning training, schooling, work experience.
Flipping burgers and pushing buttons on a computer screen to get some obese person there Tripple whopper special is not should not be valued at such a high pay rate.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Nov 11 at 2015 11:32 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:32:41 -0500

If they start getting my orders right and provide good service sure let them get paid for doing good work. But if they don't bring it down even lower. Fairs fair.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 11 at 2015 11:34 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:34:34 -0500

This makes my head hurt as it has macro-economic implications.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 12:32 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:32:57 -0500

I went to the drive thru earlier this week. I ordered a meal for one. Nice people, but they screwed up my order. I find it hard to support this given that most cannot (or will not) do the very basics of their job correctly. I am not mad, I accept this as the norm and press on.

I realize a few things:
-"Why should they care when the get paid so little?" Because applying and accepting that job was their choice.
-"What other jobs are out there?" Again, making choices.

I mean no disparagement, but I always felt that minimum wage jobs were transitional so folks can get themselves sorted out for a secure future. Whether a second job while awaiting their career path, or the job while in college, it is not meant to sustain an entire family in sum. I worked both retail and waited tables through high school and college. I worked my tail off and made more money, but even then, I made choice to join the military.

Please don't cry the blues and demand $15 an hour when you can't even remember to give me my apple pie. I work hard--I deserve an apple pie. :)

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 11 at 2015 12:38 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:38:39 -0500

If you look at pictures of the protesters, they aren't college aged kids. I started out working at 16 for the minimum wage of $1.80/hr. I worked in hospitals to get gas money and an occasional burger. Between that and going to war for summer vacations, it paid for college (first 2 at a JC, and the last 2 at UCLA). I went to school knowing I couldn't and shouldn't live my life at minimum wage.

Times have changed and there's a higher percentage of the workforce (those who will work) in "service jobs". That covers lower skilled food service, cleaning service, etc. jobs. We knew this pinch was coming. It came sooner primarily due to the "free stuff" mantra of the current Administration which creates a higher percentage of entitlement mentality, hence reliable voters. That mentality essentially says pay me if I don't work but you have to pay me much more if I do. And keep the free stuff coming because I'm entitled.

Bottom line, employers won't pay, hence won't hire, if they can't make a profit. It doesn't matter where you set the number. Is some bump warranted? Yes, because left unconstrained, there's plenty of unscrupulous employers who will take advantage of their workforce. Those that do anyways are the #1 target for unionization. Is $15 the right number? Nobody really knows but have strong opinions on what will or won't happen. That just means they'll be wrong because reality will be different. Sometimes it takes a while to see the unintended consequences occur. Obamacare really whacked my kids. They can't afford insurance so now will get penalized for it when before Obamacare they could afford it.

Response by SrA Marc Haynes made Nov 11 at 2015 12:46 PM

SrA Marc Haynes — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:46:30 -0500

I have never thought of this as a career, unless you are in management. $15.00 is entirely to much. If you want more money go to trade school, college, etc.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Nov 11 at 2015 5:24 PM

MSgt John Carroll — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:24:25 -0500

I honestly think that Burger McFlips-a-Lot protester doesn't understand basic economics. They believe that prices will remain the same, but they will have more money. It doesn't work that way. I like to point out that if a farmer now has to pay his employees $15 an hour to pick tomatoes, the cost of tomatoes will go up. If tomatoes go up, ketchup will go up. If ketchup goes up, burgers go up. Their $15 is now worthless. I also enjoy the argument that countries like Denmark pay more than $15. I quickly point out that a dozen eggs cost over $20 and a pair of jean is about $600. Lack of money normally isn't the problem with people living paycheck to paycheck. Over spending is the problem. No one ever got rich by spending like they're rich.

I educated my kids and told them when they move out, do not expect to live as comfortable as they do now. Plan on Ramen and PB&J not steak and shrimp. I spent 22 years to get where we are now.

Response by SGT Richard Blue made Nov 11 at 2015 9:30 PM

SGT Richard Blue — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:30:49 -0500

If minimum wage would have been indexed to inflation we wouldn't be having the conversation now.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Nov 12 at 2015 9:00 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:00:49 -0500

If your raise the minimum wage the cost will be passed on the consumer. A lot of people will lose their jobs and the one's left will now work harder for the minimum. If prices go up unless everyone else gets a comparable wage they will be punished by this action. The rich wont feel it as much, but the middle class will be squeezed. This will punish the middle class more than they realize.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 13 at 2015 10:29 AM

SPC David S. — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:29:17 -0500

Someone making $15 an hour working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year will make $31,200, while experts say a two-income family with two kids needs $72,000 a year to be economically secure. However while there are better paying jobs there is the issue of skill sets required for better paying jobs. How labor rates are determined is a very basic economic principle - MRP=MRxMP.

A working example:

If the marginal revenue of the firm’s output is $1 per unit of output (let's say McDonalds make a buck on every meal it sales), and the marginal product of a worker is 12 units of output (this is how many meals they make and sale in an hour), should the firm hire another worker if the wage of the worker would be $8?

In this case, the marginal revenue product of the worker would be MRxMP=$1x12=$12. Since the cost of hiring the worker (the wage) would be $8, the marginal revenue product is greater than the price of the worker, so the additional worker should be hired. However if we change this to a $15 an hour the company would in essence be taking a $3 loss every hour for that employee. Additional an artificial floor for minimum wage is going to create a surplus in labor. This surplus is created by the limited number of people able to be hired at that rate. So people will get laid off pushing those individuals deeper into poverty while at the same time not getting a family completely out of poverty. That wage would need to be around $21 an hour. This is just not economically feasible for many business. There are reason other than greed at work here.

The problem is in conveying this to individuals that may lack educational understanding.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 13 at 2015 10:42 AM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:42:45 -0500

It's a job killer. The government has no buisness in. First businesses that are doing well and can afford to hike up there wages great. But to make a buisness who does not have the resources, they are going to close or move. Unions like it because it hikes up everyone's wage. And businesses will look for qualified people to fill those jobs.

Response by SFC David Davenport made Nov 13 at 2015 10:47 AM

SFC David Davenport — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:47:11 -0500

People with a lack of how business operates on a fundamental level should not protest what they don't understand.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 13 at 2015 10:50 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:50:15 -0500

Be careful what you ask for...you might get it.

It is sad that our Nation has such a limited understanding of economics that the people who a $15 an hour minimum wage would hurt the most are the one screaming the loudest for it?

Response by PO2 Gary Lyall made Nov 13 at 2015 10:56 AM

PO2 Gary Lyall — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:56:20 -0500

I always thought any restaurant stores like Wal-Mart where secondary jobs. That job you take for extra money.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 13 at 2015 11:38 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 11:38:12 -0500

I went to school, got a masters, and made only $20hr. I should have gone to deep frying trade school.

Response by CW4 Robert Goldsmith made Nov 13 at 2015 11:55 AM

CW4 Robert Goldsmith — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 11:55:06 -0500

I'm sorry, but $15 per hour, $31.2k annually, is ludicrous for an entry-level non-supervisory job. We have Americans with college degrees and mounds of student loan debt trying to get careers that pay $40k annually, which is less than $20 per hour. America is the land of opportunity and we have people trying to get everything in return for nothing. Management wages in retail and the fast-food industries are good for those who work in those positions. If you choose to drop fries and flip burgers, which I did in high school for $3.35 per hour, you should expect to get the $8-$10 per hour in return for your labor. If you want higher wages, then do the things that demand it; experience and higher education.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 13 at 2015 1:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:38:51 -0500

Labor costs will be passed on to consumers. Some jobs will migrate overseas.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 1:45 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:45:34 -0500

Unskilled labor should not get paid $15 dollars an hour just because they demand it. Minimum wage jobs are entry level, and not meant to be career positions.. These folks need to increase their skills and education so that they can obtain a higher paying job.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Nov 13 at 2015 1:46 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:46:15 -0500

In my opinion its not going to make a difference really because if the companies are forced to pay $15 an hour for a person at a fast food establishment then the fast food establishment is going to increase the prices appropriately to keep their profit margin high and please do not tell me that they will not increase prices and that goes for other industries as well. You pay your workers more and they increase the cost of goods to be sold because of the profit margin.
So the $15 an hour will be equivalent to what they are making now and still not be able to get ahead.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Nov 13 at 2015 1:48 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:48:31 -0500

They are asking for automation to replace them as the most cost-effective alternative.

"Faced with a $15 wage mandate, restaurants have to reduce the cost of service," blared an ad in The Wall Street Journal last year from the Employment Policies Institute, which supports corporate interests. "That means fewer entry-level jobs and more automated alternatives -- even in the kitchen."

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/technology/innovation/fast-food-robot/

Robots will replace fast-food workers

A number of companies have begun experimenting with new technology that could significantly reduce restaurant labor forces in the years to come.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Nov 13 at 2015 3:47 PM

SrA David Steyer — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:47:28 -0500

This is a subject near and dear, I started working minimum wage jobs at a young age, and looking for a job. With that said I don't even support this, but I do "like" the Facebook pages because I am curious about this subject and want to know more and want to follow it closer. Long post ahead, don't say I didn't warn you.

I worked fast food and grocery before I joined the military. I have been working since I was 16 years old - my father told me you are either bringing the books home and studying, or getting a job. I started working two weeks later flipping burgers at Burger King. I was there nearly three years. Then I quit that job and worked at a grocery store for a year, then joined the military at age 20. I grew up right near Fort Drum, and those were the main jobs and the main why I joined the military because there was no future in Watertown, NY. My family did great because my parents had jobs with the state. Mother worked for the court system for many years, father was law enforcement for many years, then worked as an electrician and they both retired from said jobs.

Do I think McDonalds and Wal-Mart could and should raise wages? Sure, why not, but $15 an hour? How about no. Maybe a little bit more, but no more than $10 an hour, and that's after working there for a period of time. When I worked at Burger King, the franchise company who owned the restaurant I worked at had a turnover goal of 130% and what a waste to be paying $15 to someone who is going to quit a week or two later. I doubt they would stay if they were making more money, because in the nearly three years I was there, I don’t think anyone quit because of the money. Everyone quit for other reasons. In fact, the Burger King I worked for was really awesome with hours and during the summers I was nearly working full time. I had a friend making $10 an hour working at Pier 1 Imports, but I got more hours than he did, and made more money a week than he did even though I had a lower wage. I was pretty proud of that hard work, even though he was spoiled rotten and didn't need to work. Yes I bitched about the job, and looking back I was a dipshit about the whole thing, sorry.

One thing to consider is that many fast food restaurants are franchised, and those franchise owners they don’t actually make that much unless they own many restaurants or stores, or other business ventures because the franchise fees are very high. I knew of a franchise owner of a few McDonalds (less than five) and trust me he wasn’t making that much money and living like a king. Raising the minimum wage to $15, well those small franchise owners who put the pants on just like you and me would go bankrupt pretty quickly.

And this may get me down voted and flamed, but let’s say people were making $15 tomorrow right away...I really doubt many of those workers will be doing the right thing with the money and living within their means and/or their quality of life will improve. If you give people more money, they will obviously spend it. But will they spend it wisely? The common trend I have noticed with many of these people protesting, they have more children they can support or try and live beyond their means. I don't think condoms are very expensive.

Response by MSgt H Douglas made Nov 13 at 2015 4:26 PM

MSgt H Douglas — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:26:16 -0500

This is an absurd proposition at the git-go. Many others here have covered the skill set versus value to employer issue so I won't bother with that. There was a time, say a decade ago for round figures, where there were no employees. People were being picked off park benches to do just about any kind of job. That was when labor was in the lead economically. That changed. Now management is in the lead. And can be more choosesy. And therein lies the crunch. If I as an employer can get someone to do job "A" for $7.50/hr, why would I not? It is labor. One of the few factors governing true capitalism. (And understand this too. The USA is no longer a capitalist economy. Hasn't been for decades, so don't delude yourself.)
Now as an employer I have a broad selection of people to choose from. High school kids, the retired looking for some egg money, the significant other who just wants to improve the familial lot in life etc. So I have to choose someone to do job "A". Can that person reasonably understand English (read as "How many mistakes/order errors am I willing to tolerate from this person); can they count money (not needed if they can punch the keys correctly; already programmed for them), are they multiskilled, etc.
Now the politics of it. These people, between ALL of them, don't have a clue what they are asking for. It is the ultimate "Me" generation. Not one has asked the owner the effect of their action on the business. Since not one of them understands the requirements of a near-capitalist society, they are prime targets for the Left (read union), who in this country, have decimated the steel industry, the car industry in this country, and many others. Classical Marxism for "the poor", the "downtrodden" and so on. Ready to fight 'THE MAN'.
So assume enough politicians sign on to their whining plan and they get a union to buy into it and get their pay raised to $15.00/hr.

Now I am going to change the roles. Now I am their landlord. Whatever hole they were renting for $600/mo now goes to what? $800? $900 a month. Why? Because I know they have not changed jobs a they are making a lot more money. Guess what? I want part of that "raise" money. Or they can move out. Not so easy when you have little actual "skills", barely speak English and have anywhere from 1 to x kids you're responsible for. Oh, by the way, once you reach that level of income, you're gonna' lose a lot of government benefits, WIC, Medicaid etc. And some Federal tax deductions as well. So the answer, as it was in Washington state, is to demand just enough of a raise to KEEP FROM LOSING BENEFITS. Of course. Of course. So they want to have their cake and eat it too.
See? And by the way, their health insurance. Yeah, that and a lot more will go up. Know why? Because that pool of money increased! That is why Senators and Representatives like to fight like hell to keep DoD facilities in their state. They are economic engines.

So, in summary, these are idiots. They can be easily replaced. If nothing else, bring in a lot of Chinese for "cultural exchanges" to get around the H1B requirements. Of course, they could be replaced by illegal immigrants if the business wants to run that particular risk. And it can be done now before they are unionized and that gets more difficult. If they think they are so valuable, let them show management, who has a vested interest in their performance, how good they are. In other words, what value are you to the business enterprise? Any demonstrated answer beyond "I need the job" might just get them started on a more remunerative path.

Personally, I used to work for a major newspaper a long time ago. They paid well for the positions they offered. Just well enough to keep the unions at bay. And some how they still made (and make) gobs of money and stay in business. But I don't recall anyone ever complaining about their pay rate. And this was in 1969!

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Nov 14 at 2015 12:20 AM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:20:06 -0500

When asked why a fast food worker should earn more than a paramedic who is trained to save lives, the protester's response says it all:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/12/watch-answer-fast-food-worker-gives-when-reporter-tells-her-paramedics-dont-even-make-15-an-hour/

Watch Answer Fast Food Worker Gives When Reporter Tells Her Paramedics Don’t Even Make $15 an...

A Detroit fast food worker was confronted by a reporter earlier this week and asked why she deserved to earn $15 an hour when he claimed many paramedics do not. "Some people say that paramedics make $15 an hour. They save lives. So why should fast food workers...

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Nov 14 at 2015 12:38 AM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:38:43 -0500

I doubt these protesters demanding to earn more per hour than a paramedic, LPN, or entry-level law enforcement officer could work at this American success story: Treat Employees Well -- The Snyders always held their employees in high esteem, paying them higher wages than competitors and calling them associates to make them feel more connected to the franchise.

"They believed in sharing their success with their employees," says Perman, noting that In-N-Out associates make $10 an hour working part-time and starting store managers make $100,000, plus bonuses tied to store performance. The company benefits package is also generous. Such treatment engenders loyalty from workers.

"They have the lowest turnover rate in the fast food industry, which is notorious for turnover," says Perman. "They say that the average manager's tenure is 14 years, but they have managers who have been there 30 or 40 years."
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/05/24/in-n-out-burgers-six-secrets-for-out-and-out-success/

In-N-Out Burger's six secrets for out-and-out success - DailyFinance

On the heels of mounting cynicism generated by Wall Street bailouts and the perception that corporate leaders are gaming the system to make a profit, at le

Response by COL Charles Williams made Nov 14 at 2015 1:05 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 01:05:21 -0500

I don't think we can afford it, or sustain it... Everyone thinks they are worth more than they are... So lets raise military pay, 1st responder pay, and teacher pay too...

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Nov 15 at 2015 10:48 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 10:48:26 -0500

CH (MAJ) William Beaver sinxe fast food is no longer just a kids job, people need a living wage.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2015 2:08 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 02:08:41 -0500

It's overdue, but my fear is that Uncle Sam will take more in taxes otherwise inflation will be the other of the day...prices of goods and service will go up and then we'd be back to the starting point.

Response by TSgt Frederick Horne made Nov 21 at 2015 7:33 AM

TSgt Frederick Horne — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:33:26 -0500

It is ridiculous. IMO this rewards individuals who refuse to better themselves. If you want a higher wage then learn a trade or go to college for a degree in a career field that pays well. If you only have a high school diploma or didn't bother finishing high school then making the current minimum wage is what you signed up for. Reality is a hard pill to swallow for people who feel they're owed the world for the simple action of being born.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2015 8:30 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:30:48 -0500

Well Chaplain, as much as a lot of us are bothered by the expansion of government beyond its prescribed limits (and setting wages is definitely going beyond), it's hard at the same time to begrudge people the 15 dollars per hour. 15 an hour is still a miserable wage, and some are talking like it's a lot of money or something. As far as unionizing goes, they certainly have the right to do that if they wish. I don't patronize fast food establishments, so I'm not sure what impact all this is having on prices or quality, etc.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2015 5:28 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 17:28:58 -0500

I think it's time Companies are greedy and the poor suffer, time to defend them a little and not the greedy companies. Let's help them out by improving their earnings so they can afford to live decently. http://www.businessinsider.com/iraq-veteran-on-why-raise-minimum-wage-2015-11

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Dec 4 at 2015 3:01 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 15:01:14 -0500

I'm disgusted by it.

The very thought that someone is entitled to $15/hr with no regard the skills and abilities they bring to the market is just perpetrating poverty.

Flopping Whoppers is a job for a high school kid that hasn't yet learned to work. If someone is an adult trying to live on $7.25 an hour they need to be uncomfortable... they need a wake up call to learn a skill, better themselves, apply other places, move to a different city, join the military... ANYTHING other than sitting there in their own pathetic existence.

These poor people need an education... Inflation marches along pretty steadily at 3% a year. That means if you don't get a 3% raise each year the net result is that you actually get a pay DECREASE because cost of living certainly went up.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made May 3 at 2017 4:36 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 03 May 2017 16:36:29 -0400

If you figure up the minimum wage all before taxes, it comes to $28800...that's working a 40 hour week. Let's put things in perspective...an E-1 entry level that "works" way over 40 hours a week makes $19,198 and is in combat, deployed, away form family etc. It takes them four years and a promotion to E-4 to make the $28,800 that the minimum wage request is asking for. Now brake down the average time the military person is working let's just be conservative 60 hours a week that comes to an E-4 with over four years, leading men in combat and other challenges making roughly $10 dollars an hour...and like I said, that is real conservative on the hours.

SOOOO to answer your question...unskilled labor making $15 an hour...HECKS NAW

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2017 7:02 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 May 2017 19:02:27 -0400

Hmmmmm!!! I never saw it this way, that's crap...when a Private E1 receivers way below the Country's minimum wage for way less risky jobs with a chance to get maimed for life, or even suffer unseen wounds that are not physical...I wish we can have someone REALLY fighting for the Military folks in Congress...after all we have a lotta VETs in Congress. I know we all volunteered, but if you look closely any job one applies for whether it's McDonalds or Exxon-Mobil, Congress or landscaping jobs... they are all volunteer....simply because you choose to apply...then you have the choice not to accept their job offer...yet they have wage protection. Thanks for bringing this forth...I'd like to know others have to say, what more supporting or contrary researches are out there...

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 4 at 2017 9:46 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 04 May 2017 21:46:47 -0400

The fight for $15 forgets the other part of the work force. Those that have worked hard to attain wages higher than $15 an hour will face a slap in the face in fact demotion, though that demotion will not be seen on paper. No fight for $15 fighter has addressed the wages of the rest of the work force.