What are your thoughts on the Army eliminating the MP Corps?

SGT Greg Knytych — Sun, 07 Jul 2024 20:03:25 -0400

I have seen many posts on Facebook in the Oldschool 95B page talking about the Army either eliminating the MP Corps or eliminating Garrison Law Enforcement from the mission.
I've heard this rumor before, even when I was still in 35+ years ago. I do believe base law enforcement duties stateside will become more and more commonly handled by DOD Police allowing more personnel assigned to units to handle the changing and evolving wartime mission. There's been criticism about "civilian" police enforcing the laws on base, but the DOD Police aren't civilian. They work under the same authority and enforce all military regulations and policies as the MPs do. They also have the same responsibility to the UCMJ as any military member. I see no issues here. What do you say?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 8 at 2024 12:26 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 08 Jul 2024 12:26:00 -0400

The 1st time you get a parcel of POWs, and you have to sit on them because there is no MPs to turn them over to and no POW camps, they will change their tune pretty damn quick!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 8 at 2024 1:04 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 08 Jul 2024 13:04:58 -0400

Having commanded a Garrison, I can tell you DoD Police do not have the same responsibility to UCMJ as military members. Head on down to your local CPAC and the Union for that area and tell me what you find. There is some pros and cons to realigning the law enforcement mission from Garrison and creating a larger DoD contingent to take it on. The largest argument I can think of is if there is a law enforcement mission in a deployed environment, the MPs need to at least rotate through LE assignments so they can do it down range. Experience in patrol and investigation are essential. Only one way to get it…

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Jul 8 at 2024 6:04 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Mon, 08 Jul 2024 18:04:47 -0400

This is an issue that has many threads tangled in the knot.

DOD Police are not really a one-for-one tradeoff with MPs for garrison law enforcement. Just one of the considerations with DOD Police is the fact that they are civilian employees with union contracts and complex rules. Also, they work for the Garrison Commander, not the Tenant unit commander even when that tenant thinks they own the whole post.

Another consideration is the simple fact that they are not seen as "one of our own" by soldiers and they don't see soldiers as one of their own either.

Using MPs for garrison law enforcement in CONUS today is sometimes little more than busy work to give the MP unit something to do.

MPs have a variety of wartime missions -- many of which simply don't get practiced very well in peacetime, even during exercises. Any thoughts about eliminating the MP Corps would need to include plans to meet those wartime missions. You don't need to look very far back in US military history to see instances of how bad things can get when those missions are not included in planning and staffing.

I remain aghast that we failed to re-learn the lessons and failed to re-establish the Constabulary Corps.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 8 at 2024 7:23 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Mon, 08 Jul 2024 19:23:31 -0400

A few years ago, the AF in it's infinite stupidity...uh, I mean wisdom....thought eliminating the Security Forces AFSC and replacing them with DoD contract police would be a great "cost saving" measure. That proved to be a COLOSSAL failure when it came time for extra base/post patrols, increased security checks at sensitive asset (ie: WSU, critical infrastructure, etc), and sending troops downrange to secure airfields in Afghanistan and Iraq. The union(s) that control the DoD police units basically to the AF to go fornicate themselves as those functions were not part of their contract. Oddly, the 3P0X1 AFSC made a miraculous reemergence.

Response by SGT Anthony Tipton made Jul 10 at 2024 9:47 AM

SGT Anthony Tipton — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 09:47:58 -0400

MP Corps is great experience if someone is wanting to continue in law enforcement after service ends. MP's are more respected than DOD officers.

Response by MSG Bennie Davis made Jul 13 at 2024 10:58 PM

MSG Bennie Davis — Sat, 13 Jul 2024 22:58:46 -0400

During my time in the National Guard, I was once a 13B. Our state needed 31Bs for deployments but didn't have enough in the state to fill all the missions. So to be able to fill everything that NGB had sent down, they retrained a whole BN at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO to complete these garrison missions. This was during '04 - '05 when the 25th MP BDE and the 25th INF BDE was in Afghanistan. Also units were deployed to replace AD units in Germany that were deployed to Afghanistan. After that deployment we had a 2 yr down time before our next deployment to Iraq in '07 - '08. The MP Corp has been around since Sep 1941 but has seen engagements since WW I, so in my opinion the MP Corp is here to stay. Either it be in garrison or in other duties!!

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jul 15 at 2024 1:13 PM

SGT James Murphy — Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:13:10 -0400

It's a valid perspective that you bring up regarding the potential changes in the role of the Military Police (MP) Corps and the shift towards more DoD Police involvement in base law enforcement. Here are a few points to consider:

### Historical Context and Current Trends
1. **Historical Rumors and Shifts**: The idea of eliminating or significantly altering the role of the MP Corps has been a recurring rumor for decades. This likely stems from ongoing evaluations of military efficiency and the evolving nature of military missions.
2. **Focus on Wartime Missions**: As military missions evolve, there's a growing emphasis on ensuring that personnel are fully prepared for and engaged in wartime activities. Transitioning garrison law enforcement duties to DoD Police can free up MPs to focus on these critical missions.

### DoD Police Role
1. **Authority and Training**: DoD Police are not civilian in the traditional sense. They operate under the same authority as MPs and are trained to enforce military regulations and policies. They also hold the same responsibilities under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).
2. **Law Enforcement Consistency**: The enforcement of laws and regulations on military installations by DoD Police ensures consistency and maintains order. Their presence allows for a more efficient allocation of military personnel, enabling soldiers to concentrate on their primary roles without compromising base security and law enforcement.

### Criticism and Acceptance
1. **Perceptions of Civilian Enforcement**: Some criticism exists regarding non-military personnel enforcing military laws. However, DoD Police officers' military-like authority and adherence to the UCMJ mitigate these concerns.
2. **Operational Efficiency**: The use of DoD Police can enhance operational efficiency by allowing MPs to focus on training, deployments, and other mission-critical tasks without the distraction of garrison duties.

### Personal Opinion
Given the above points, the transition of garrison law enforcement duties to DoD Police seems practical and beneficial. It aligns with the strategic need to optimize military personnel's roles and ensure readiness for evolving wartime missions. The DoD Police's authority and responsibilities under the UCMJ provide a solid foundation for maintaining law and order on bases, which is crucial for operational integrity and security.

In summary, while the potential changes might stir some debate, they appear to be a logical step toward modernizing and optimizing military operations in response to contemporary challenges and mission requirements.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jul 15 at 2024 1:15 PM

SGT James Murphy — Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:15:56 -0400

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2024 1:26 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Aug 2024 01:26:03 -0400

The navy does things like this on occasion, too. "We can save money by eliminating/merging this rating!!!"

Eventually, we re-introduce the rating. I'm still waiting for someone to have the common sense to split the LS ratings back into AK/SK. At that point, I can retire, since clear heads will have finally returned.

Response by SPC Richard White made Aug 31 at 2024 11:25 PM

SPC Richard White — Sat, 31 Aug 2024 23:25:01 -0400

A very stupid idea

Response by 1LT Tony Chiavacci made Sep 3 at 2024 9:09 AM

1LT Tony Chiavacci — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 09:09:11 -0400

Been over 35 years since my ETS buy we fulfilled a role in central America no other type of unit could have. Back then in some 3rd world countries they are willing to accept MPs vs infantry because they saw them as less of a threat even though our MTOE was heavier than a light infantry unit. If this still holds true, I don't see how they can be eliminated. Not to mention the POW and battlefield traffic ops.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Nov 4 at 2024 1:31 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 13:31:06 -0500

Let me pose a completely different possibility.
Suppose we completely restructure the MP Corps, replacing it with a properly organized and properly equipped Constabulary Corps.

Yes I realize this proposal is just 20 years late -- we should have seen the coming need after Gulf War I, and even the completely deaf dumb and blind should have seen it in the aftermath of Afghanistan and Gulf War II when we spent decades trying to use random combat arms units as Constabulary.