What are your thoughts on Sebastian Junger's ideas of the hyper-valorizing of Soldiers and VA incentivized PTSD?

SFC Ronald Eckert — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 14:47:17 -0400

https://taskandpurpose.com/sebastian-junger-we-need-to-stop-over-valorizing-veterans/

Sebastian Junger: Over-Valorizing Vets Does More Harm Than Good

Task & Purpose spoke with the “Restrepo” director about PTSD, the civilian-everything divide, and his upcoming book, “Tribe.”

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2018 3:02 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:02:53 -0400

SFC Ronald Eckert I also wonder when I read:

"The irony is that 10% of the U.S. military experiences combat. Something like 50% of the military has applied for PTSD disability. So what’s going on with that 40%? Now, I’m not prepared to be as cynical about that 40% as some people might be. I think an awful lot of those people are honestly describing something that is actually a transition disorder. It isn’t PTSD, but the only vocabulary we have right now is PTSD"

Response by Sgt Daniel Hobart made Nov 1 at 2018 3:10 PM

Sgt Daniel Hobart — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:10:52 -0400

When he has gone twenty years suffering from PTSD, lost three wifes, two to divorce, one to suicide and lost a daughter,{by car} and son to suicide{by drugs}, come back and tell me about PTSD. There are alot of people out there getting benefits for it that do not deserve it. I am a Vietnam Veteran and came out of Vietnam with, "Three Purple Hearts." The struggle has been hard, but you have to decide if you want to live or die. I do not believe we are hypervalorizing anyone that has been in Combat for months at a time. It all depends on your age and how much your brain has developed. Check out, "The Battle for Khe Sanh." Most of us were between 18 & 19. SEMPER FI

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2018 4:06 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:06:01 -0400

That's his opinion, which he is entitled to.
With regard to his opinion on PTSD, I haven't read his research papers, or doctoral dissertation on PTSD, so I can't comment on that opinion - OPINION. Especially since his opinion differs from the body of research on PTSD.
He has zero experience with the VA, since civilian ournalists aren't eligible for VA benefits, and his claim that VA incentivizes PTSD is lacking in facts. First, you don't automatically get payment for life for mental health disabilities because VA doesn't automatically consider them permanently disabling to the point of being compensable. They are required be reevaluated at 5 years, unless you are one of the rare Veterans who receives a "permanent and total" initial rating. (Required doesn't mean there will be a reevaluation, but that is the requirement.)
His comments are exactly why I told the reporters embedded in my unit to wait at the camp in Kuwait while I moved the unit forward a few miles, and that I would return to bring them forward before we crossed into Iraq. Sorry, I got busy, and they never caught up.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 1 at 2018 4:08 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:08:05 -0400

What he writes implies he has never experienced PTSD. To consider it just a short term condition based on financial and social incentives is hogwash. It's the adrenaline, lack of sleep, anxiety, and fear which cause PTSD. PTSD is not a transition disorder, it is real and shakes the constitution of a person prior to leaving the service. Considering we live in one of the most bellicose nations in the last two centuries, I don't expect glorification but a simple thank you. Junger is speaking out of his ass. And where did he get the 50% of military personnel claim they have PTSD?

Response by TSgt David Holman made Nov 1 at 2018 4:09 PM

TSgt David Holman — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 16:09:11 -0400

This was an interesting piece if nothing else. I think it boils down to more than just the PTSD issue for me, but the sense of entitlement that some members show today. It is almost as though we have created a generation of service members who expect a parade for doing their job.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 1 at 2018 7:30 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:30:42 -0400

He is absolutely spot on... We've created an internal culture of entitled victims who believe that four years of kicking drip pans around the motor pool makes them broken war heroes who deserve money and discounts for their, at best, nominal service.

Response by SFC Ronald Eckert made Nov 1 at 2018 8:53 PM

SFC Ronald Eckert — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 20:53:12 -0400

I want to take a moment to say that I've met Sebastian Junger. You will probably never find a journalist who is more concerned about honoring Soldiers and their sacrifices. Watch "Restrepo". Watch "Korengal". Watch "The Last Patrol". He knows at least a little about his subject matter. He experienced it alongside Soldiers under the worst conditions. His opinions were formed by close interaction and study of the American Soldier while deployed and once they returned. He might be wrong in some of his assertions, but he isn't malicious. He truly wants to help Soldiers and veterans. I can honestly say that I don't think at least one respondent read the article. He isn't bashing PTSD sufferers. He isn't claiming that are all lying. He has a very nuanced opinion that is probably better fleshed out through a look at the entirety of his work. I am curious to hear from people that actually read this article... Or any of his works. I truly want to know if you might agree with his assertions... Or disagree... And why. I don't want this thread where every individual justifies their individual PTSD claim as proof that Junger is off base. I'm also curious to hear thoughts about his take on over-valorizing Soldiers as a whole...Not knee-jerk reactions that imply Junger hates Soldiers, because he doesn't. Thanks for any and all respectful input.

Response by Nicci Eisenhauer made Nov 1 at 2018 9:02 PM

Nicci Eisenhauer — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 21:02:06 -0400

"Hyper-valorizing" I'd say is a societal over-correction for the unspeakable way we forgot our Korean police action Veterans and our Vietnam police action Veterans -- is my use of the words "police action" hitting nerves enough to demonstrate how ludicrous labels are, such as PTSD? Or who gets PTSD and from what? Hyper-valorizing? Yes. Treating other Veterans deplorably? Yes. Heck, the VA doesn't even have a simple "Veteran" status that blankets those who've served and has quite a number of loopholes to intentionally make sure some reservists and guardsmen never become Veterans in the eyes of the VA. (And, the DoD is perfectly complicit with that.)

There are many other causes of PTSD than combat for those 40% Junger questions. That's a whole thesis paper, which might be a good idea for him on the subjects off addiction, chemical dependence and -- has this idiot ever heard of neuroscience? Frankly, he's so off-base that he nearly discredits his expertise about things he DOES know about. He's grossly out of his lane on the PTSD subject, so just scrap that whole topic as he's unqualified to comment. I honestly am staggered he thinks he can remotely touch the topic but... you know what THAT is?

That's Junger's transition issue right there. He's making the mistake that his combat journalism experience has some sort of transferrable skillset to psychology and neuroscience. Bhhha. About as much as a submariner can transition to performing heart transplants.

The truly valuable things Junger says that are really worth reading all follow his off-base bull...oney about PTSD. The very best was saved for the last sentence:

"I feel like the real conversation is, how do we make modern society more ethically, philosophically, intellectually integrated so that we’re all truly appreciative of the whole damn thing." ...
Now, THAT was well said... quotable, even.

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Nov 1 at 2018 11:29 PM

CSM David Porterfield — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 23:29:08 -0400

I agree on the incentivised PTSD 100%. Since 06 or 08 whatever you no longer had to prove you actually took part in combat (the stressor) with combat ribbons or badges, valor awards, purple heart or witness statements with supporting documents It's just the persons word.

Response by SGT David T. made Nov 2 at 2018 9:27 AM

SGT David T. — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 09:27:31 -0400

I think he is spot on. Now, I am not saying there aren't those who are legitimately messed up. There are, and they need help. I am talking about the ones who are collecting 100% for an event that never happened. I know someone who claims a grenade was thrown at their fuel truck during a convoy. They are collecting 100% for that. Now if that happened, I am pretty sure I would have heard about it at the time (same platoon and I was their squad leader) and Grenade+Fuel Truck=Firey death.

So yes, I think that the PTSD is over claimed. However, all that being said. I would much rather have people get it who may not deserve it than have even one who actually needs the help not get it.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Nov 2 at 2018 11:37 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 11:37:35 -0400

It's interesting points that he has made. I'm not sure if PTSD is a temporary condition, but it definitely becomes less pronounced the further from the event you get. I know that my great uncle remembered everything from WW2 until he died. He definitely had PTSD at one point, but it wasn't a serious problem through most of his life. When he was dying of cancer about a decade ago and going through chemotherapy, he had a flashback. He thought my grandfather was a German trying to kill him and attempted to fight back.

I think that for a lot of people nowadays, they've never known genuine hardship. Throughout most of our lives, the US has been a prosperous nation with very little strife. WW2 vets lived through one of the hardest times in our country's history right before having to go to war. People literally struggled to survive the great depression. They already had been through tough times and the increased stresses of combat weren't as jarring to them as it is to a veteran from today.

Response by PO1 Christopher Gómez made Nov 2 at 2018 7:37 PM

PO1 Christopher Gómez — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:37:17 -0400

I think the article and the author's opinion are rather cynical and made without a real understanding of psychology and culture. You have to realize that the majority of Americans, especially young kids who go off to war, have been somewhat sheltered and spoiled compared to many other cultures. In many countries, life is harsher than in America and therefore a lot of non-Americans tend to have more fortitude and have been hardened already more so than most Americans. We also have a culture of psychological understanding that a lot of other countries do not, especially in the Middle East and Eastern Europe.

PTSD can be caused by many things and one doesn't have to be in combat as a requirement for developing it. This is something the military and the VA need to acknowledge and accept as they have yet to do so and are part of the main reason we have 22 brothers and sisters ending their lives every day. As an example, I saw combat in OIF but I also had to deal with casualties after OIF. I regularly had to intervene to stop suicides at Walter Reed and NNMC as well as deal with those who were successful. We dealt with the troops who had been burned until they were unrecognizable, missing limbs, etc. Basically, we dealt with troops who were maimed, dying, dead, wishing they were dead and screaming all the time, etc. We had to fingerprint bodies for identification and other morbid duties that a lot of troops never have to deal with. While that isn't combat, it is a form of exposure that can cause one to develop PTSD. Also, consider that most people have never seen anything gruesome prior to the things they see as part of the military and/or as first responders.

I do not think that PTSD is being over valorized, I believe it is not being recognized enough to help those who are forced to suffer silently, because the military community and VA hung them out to dry, until they decide they can handle no more and end their lives. I believe we need to develop a better understanding of PTSD in the military and VA systems, then educate all of the leaders and caregivers so less of our brothers and sisters fall to the wayside. We need to broaden our approach to PTSD in general and ensure we are helping those in need whether they were in combat or not. I would personally rather be overly cautious, and later weed out those who aren't in need of immediate help, than continue letting down those who are in need. If we can lessen the 22 a day by being more educated, open minded, and proactive then that is what we need to do.