What are your thoughts on my being an Army AR vs MI Officer?

2019-05-08T19:44:32-04:00

What are you thoughts comparing the two branches? I've looked at doing a detail for three years in AR, then heading to MI, but I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me like battalion level AR offers some of the same challenges that MI does. Am I wrong there? Please share your thoughts on your branch, and your perception of the other.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2019 8:00 PM

2019-05-08T20:00:48-04:00

What is your expectations of being a MI Officer?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 8 at 2019 8:01 PM

2019-05-08T20:01:30-04:00

http://www.mors.org

I think I'd seen a thread you'd had on this you'd had before, I'm fairly certain I'd sent this to you on that one, if it was yours, at least I'm thinking it was...when I'd been in Army ROTC before USAF OTS, the ROTC unit I was in took us all on a trip to Aberdeen Proving Ground, where we got a chance to look at the engineering test range for tanks, and yak with one of the senior warrants involved with tank re-engineering, they'd also had a museum there with quite interesting exhibits, from what I recall, or that might possibly have been the Army Transportation Museum at Ft. Eustis, I can't quite recall now, I'd seen that one some time later on...I only mention that as, though I can't help you decide, unfortunately, I just figured you might find it a reasonably cool anecdote, in any event, you know? Honestly, though, all kidding aside, ops research, if you've a taste for STEM topics, as I think I'd mentioned to you on the other thread, if that was in fact yours, as I'd said, could be a really suitably grad major for you, it's got zillions of overlaps to both armor, in terms of battlefield wargamine, as well as from an MI standpoint, I assure you, I'd be most eager to know what your bachelors major is, grades, GPAs, STEM interests, grad-school inclinations, I know you're not necessarily thinking of that aspect, the grad-school part, at the moment, I just also think I'd emphasized to you, for real, that, once you're actually on active, ALL svcs, ALL, expect ALL company graders to get done with both their own svc PME, as well as other svcs PME, as well as start a masters, at least part time, pronto, like as in ASAP, believe me, I got a pretty decent look at Army, even though I didn't go that way, trust me, blue-suit land isn't all that different, I assure you...I'd mentioned both USAF AFIT as well as Naval Postgrad School (NPS), in addn to military Rhodes Scholar, if you can submit for all of those, depending on your GPA, I swear I'm pointing you in a direction most at your stage don't typically give thought to initially, believe me, I've been where you wanna go, even though I was engineering research, not field stuff, trust what I tell you, and at least give what I'm saying here some serious thought, honest, OK? I assure you, if you at least look into the things I'm suggesting, you'll if nothing else expose yourself to an aspect of svc life you might at least not yet have possibly considered, that might well suit you like a glove, no kidding, OK? If you'd care to chat at all, just let me know, honest, as I think I'd also said, I have an interest in such career/educ stuff as you're asking, I might be able to suggest other possibilities for you as well, depending on your interests and inclinations, no rush, whenever you'd want, hope all that was of at least some use and/or interest, OK?

Military Operations Research Society

23-25 July Innovations in Measuring and Predicting Readiness Special Meeting23-27 September Certificate in U.S. National Security Risk Analysis

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made May 8 at 2019 8:03 PM

2019-05-08T20:03:27-04:00

Big difference...see if you an “branch detail” and do both!

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 8 at 2019 8:05 PM

2019-05-08T20:05:49-04:00

http://www.ausa.org

I'm sure you know of them, however, if not, their magazine is definitely relevant to what you're asking about, honest, they also have a zillion meetings and conferences germane to all of that as well, from what I can see looking through it when we get it, I leaf through a lot of the magazines from such groups, just to try to stay current, obviously....

Association of the United States Army

Voice for the Army – Support for the Soldier

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 8 at 2019 8:08 PM

2019-05-08T20:08:11-04:00

https://www.mica-national.org/

I just stumbled across this, I didn't know if you'd ever seen it, I'd been unaware of this one, though it should certainly be of use, esp if you could call them, maybe attend a state and/or local chapter meeting, possibly, as well, you know?

Military Intelligence Corps Association

The Military Intelligence Corps Association (MICA) is the premier professional association of the U.S. Army’s Military Intelligence Corps, with the mission of preserving history, educating leaders, honoring professionals, sharing knowledge, and providing supporting award programs. MICA members represent the active duty, reserve component, and retired as well as defense contractors and others who support the MI mission and are dedicated to...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 8 at 2019 8:09 PM

2019-05-08T20:09:33-04:00

http://cavalryandarmor.com/

Here's their opposite number group, also obviously germane to what you're trying to sort out, clearly....

U.S. Cavalry & Armor Association Home

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 8 at 2019 8:11 PM

2019-05-08T20:11:20-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Armor_School

I also found this....

United States Army Armor School - Wikipedia

The United States Army Armor School is a training school located at Fort Benning, Georgia. Its primary focus is the training of United States Army soldiers, NCOs, and commissioned officers in the operation, tactics, and maintenance of Armor forces and equipment, including the M1 Abrams main battle tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, assorted crew-served and personal weapons, and various other equipment including radios. The school is also the...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 8 at 2019 8:14 PM

2019-05-08T20:14:23-04:00

Armor is maintenance centric. You pay for your ride through arduous maintenance. The Armor PL will have to give directions to the driver because he is low in the tank. You have to talk to your crew, your PSG, and the Company Commander. You have to make decisions quickly because that is the nature of Armor. After PL time you will most like be an assistant in a S shop.

Response by CPT Stan Jones made May 8 at 2019 10:01 PM

2019-05-08T22:01:48-04:00

It all depends on your ultimate goals - combat arms v combat support - the key is having the required experiences as an officer - training, command and staff experience - the ultimate goal is to lead - talk with current officers and NCO’s in both fields.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made May 8 at 2019 11:36 PM

2019-05-08T23:36:41-04:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member please explain what you mean here:

" It seems to me like battalion level AR offers some of the same challenges that MI does."

So a BN XO runs the staff and synchronizes their effort across all warfighting functions. An AR BN S3 runs operations (warfighting functions fires protection, and movement/maneuver) which uses the (warfighting functions) intelligence provided by the BN S2 who is MI. Both of which work for the XO....Some of the same challenges? Yes. But you're working these challenges from different perspectives.

The S2 is trying to articulate how the enemy will fight and interpret their next moves by looking at indicators, which become CCIR. If a CCIR occurs, the friendly plan changes. A decision Point on a decision Support matrix and GCMs.

The S3 is fighting the plan and keeping track of decision points that drive branches or audibles through the CCIR.

The S2 and the S3 share an appreciation for mobility and counter mobility and the impacts of the operating environment and they endeavor to understand it together (if they are good). The S2 is looking at the red side and how it impacts the blue, and the S3 is looking at the blue impact and how he can mitigate or leverage situations by applying resources or issuing orders.

MI officers work in different levels: tactical, operational, and strategic. What I just described is tactical level, which a BN is. When you work at Corps and Joint HQs that is operational level, then MI has spooky people that work at the strategic level with "national programs" like NRO. They do different things with different time sensitivity. In general, MI works HUMiNT, SIgINT, IMINT (imagery), technical intelligence looking at weapon systems, and electronic attack among other areas.

Armor Officers are work among the three levels but it goes back to their understanding of training, deploying, employing, and redeploying Combined arms formations. Most will stay at the tactical and operational level unless they accept assignments to Combatant Commands, NATO, or Joint/service staff as field grade officers. Armor doesn't have 'spooky level' people. They do have senior experts that advise senior commanders, but its leveraged off their understanding of fires and maneuver learned from being in a tank and leading other tank crews.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made May 9 at 2019 12:02 AM

2019-05-09T00:02:04-04:00

Had my brigade commander switch from ada to qm. He would have made general if he stayed ada. Robert Cox. COL retired. GCSS army in the pentagon. LTC in charge of qm enlisted assignments at the pentagon. Battalion commander CEBN Luxembourg. Terrible tennis player by the way.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2019 12:02 AM

2019-05-09T00:02:10-04:00

Best case scenario is to Branch Detail Armor (or IN, then FA) and then go MI if that is an option.

If you go AR 1st you will get the maneuver experience, leading combat Soldiers, understanding better what intelligence is needed for the mission and actually empathize in situations that Intel works well and when it doesn’t. It also gives you an idea of what reconnaissance and surveillance operations are about and how hard it is to actually collect maneuver information collection operations. This will make you a much more lethal and competing MI Officer.

Once you go MI, you will get the analytical and systems functional side of the house. Through Intelligence operations in a multi disciplined environment you will grasp the necessity of fusion and integration of intelligence disciplines and also learn the art and science of predictive and usable intelligence for the commander and warfighter.

But, bottom line is your personality. If you are an in charge, out Front steely eyes barrel chested freedom fighter you may want to stay AR or Combat arms. This is the quintessential question you have to answer deep in your heart of hearts.

Pure Intel positions at their core are combat support in nature. Staff oriented and unless you branch out and work Single source Intel operations, you will always have to deal with being a wicked stepchild and at times subservient to Ops. Usually a rank lower than the ops Officer and at times under the S3. Some officers love the knowledge is power, intellectual and predictive nature of being a “2”. They thrive on seeking out ambiguity and answering the hard questions.

If you would rather lead the way, hulk smash and shoot people/blow stuff up-stay Combat Arms.

Always here is you need to talk it over

Response by COL Gary Gresh made May 9 at 2019 12:04 AM

2019-05-09T00:04:03-04:00

Armor is a combat arms branch. Military Intelligence is a combat support branch. While both branches offer leadership challenges, you have to love mechanized mechanisms if you go Armor. Your vehicle will be your life. MI folks work in all branches of the army.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 9 at 2019 1:04 PM

2019-05-09T13:04:30-04:00

I have a stupid question. How has the MI role changed from previous eras to the modern one?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2019 1:32 PM

2019-05-16T13:32:52-04:00

Keep in mind that an MI officer is a professional staff officer. While some MI LT's do PL time in a MICO or MIBN, what HRC wants if for you to be an A/S-2 then an S-2. Doing MI branch detailed AR, will broaden your military experience by allowing you to become adept at DATE operations before moving into MI. Additionally, if you are AR there is a strong possibility that you will end up in an ABCT, which means RAF rotations.
Also, being an MI officer is extremely rewarding. But, it requires a high amount of self discipline. No one is going to tell the deuce how to do his job. He's either good at it, and they value his input, or he sucks and they tell him to shut up after briefing the weather. Thus, it is incumbent on you to hone your craft whichever branch you decide.
Lastly, ALL officers eventually end up on staff. 90% of your career is staff work.