What are your thoughts on a Vet who wants to remove JROTC from a local school?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:42:06 -0400

Updated Post:

A editorial on Peterman has been published by another local paper. A great quote from it is "Just as it would be misplaced for someone who had a poor experience on the football field or in the senior class play to call for the elimination of those two extracurricular activities, it also would be misplaced to call for a school district to discontinue JROTC because service in the military did not live up to expectations."

http://www.readingeagle.com/news/article/editorial-bad-experience-in-army-doesnt-justify-ending-jrotc

[Original Post]

Per the article: Peterman, a 2001 graduate of Pottstown High School, also doesn’t think the program belongs in school.

He worries that the program “makes it seem like the military is a good option” and does not explore realities like a suicide rate that is 50 percent higher than the normal population, high rates of post-traumatic stress disorder and a high rate of sexual assault in the service — not to mention obvious risks to life and limb."

He also says he is not anti-war. However (on further digging) his children go to a home school and he is apart of Veteran's for peace...

What is your take on this "Vet" ?

Link: http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-news/20150908/pottstown-veteran-asks-school-board-to-close-jrotc-program

Pottstown veteran asks school board to close JROTC program

POTTSTOWN U.S. Army veteran Mike Peterman doesn’t want anyone to have the wrong idea — he is not anti-military.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Sep 8 at 2015 12:46 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:46:31 -0400

Sigh.

/facepalm

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Sep 8 at 2015 12:46 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:46:44 -0400

In one word?:
Dumbass

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 8 at 2015 12:47 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:47:35 -0400

no way

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 8 at 2015 12:48 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:48:30 -0400

He has the right to do whatever he wants; I have the right to laugh in his face and tell him how stupid he's making himself look. JROTC isn't designed to teach kids to be killers; it's designed to teach the discipline that could help them in their daily lives and in college should they go. It doesn't even sway a member to join a particular branch over another. I did Navy JROTC but I'm Army all day long. My nephew is Marine JROTC....he's confused all day long. I'll help steer him in the right direction when he graduates HS. Maybe this gentleman is mistaken and hasn't done the program or was put out of it? Never mind he was put out of it.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Sep 8 at 2015 12:48 PM

SCPO David Lockwood — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:48:40 -0400

His thoughts.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 12:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:49:16 -0400

I read the article and I feel that the removal would just limit students. Why would anyone do that. If kids join and doesn't understand that they might end up in a war then the public school system and the parents of said child is to blame.

It's not like JROTC enrolls kids in the military. Just teaches them stuff that could come in handy.

I just think Mike Peterman wanted something to complain about. Now he has. Mission complete.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Sep 8 at 2015 12:51 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:51:11 -0400

This veteran like all American have the right to express his opinion, but he needs to know that the opinions of the students that attend the schools are more important then his, due to the fact that the students have the right to choose their future. He needs help!

Response by SGT William Howell made Sep 8 at 2015 12:59 PM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:59:31 -0400

You remember "That Guy" in your unit? Ever wonder what happened to him when he got out? Here he is! Still being "That Guy".

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 8 at 2015 1:10 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:10:52 -0400

What a jerk. ROTC is a useful educational program that teaches leadership skills

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Sep 8 at 2015 1:14 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:14:31 -0400

I think that JROTC doesn't force High School students to be in the military. Rather it teaches them self-discipline, self confidence and leadership. These are all characteristics that are sorely lacking today...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 1:16 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:16:02 -0400

I think it's a shame anyone would want to get rid of JROTC. it's the only program left in most schools that teaches civics and citizenship.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Sep 8 at 2015 1:24 PM

SSgt Terry P. — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:24:46 -0400

Another idiot looking for his few minutes in the spotlight .

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Sep 8 at 2015 1:25 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:25:19 -0400

His right to free speech is guaranteed as a citizen. He further earned his right to criticize the military by his service.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Sep 8 at 2015 1:58 PM

SSG Leo Bell — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:58:26 -0400

There is nothing wrong with ROTC or JROTC in the schools. It help the kids learn a little on military rang and order plus a little history on the military. It also brings a little structure to there lives

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Sep 8 at 2015 2:32 PM

GySgt Joe Strong — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:32:37 -0400

I don't think any Veteran is going to be pro-War, in the general sense.
However, That is a different issue than being pro-ROTC. Why wouldn't anyone want their child in a program that teaches responsibility, respect, understanding of others, working as a team, individual effort, and has an emphasis on Character building?
His position is a conflation of issues and one I wouldn't expect a Veteran to have made.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 8 at 2015 2:32 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:32:42 -0400

So what would he say about Revolutionary War? Don't join because it is dangerous, the pay is lousy, and the troops are ill equipped?

Response by SGT Neil Chandler made Sep 8 at 2015 2:38 PM

SGT Neil Chandler — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:38:38 -0400

I think it would to a bad move. I believe that all teens should spend at least one term in the military. The next generation would be a lot more tolerable then.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 2:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:47:52 -0400

Most of the ones who end up in organizations like Vets for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, etc are people with an agenda born out of their own negative experiences. Few saw much success during their service. There are some exceptions, but true as a general rule.

And they're all looking for the spotlight.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 3:09 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 15:09:46 -0400

Each citizen is allowed, and encouraged, to have and express their own opinion. In this case I disagree with him and question his background and motivations, as well as possibly his sanity. Nothing against homeschooling personally, but I question parents who go through that much effort to ensure their children are not socialized. Personally, I would never let public schools, or private for that matter, be the only education my kids received. Either way every idiot is allowed an opinion and I will support their right to it even if I wholly despise it.

If we are going to get rid of JROTC we might as well get rid of the boy scouts because they serve a very similar purpose. Also, regardless of taxes, does a person not utilizing the public school system really have the privilege of crusading against a part of it?

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Sep 8 at 2015 4:10 PM

SSG Leo Bell — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 16:10:10 -0400

I have heard her story and it is a tear jerker. She was a very brave woman.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Sep 8 at 2015 4:15 PM

SPC George Rudenko — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 16:15:10 -0400

Remove instead of education.... Bad message

Response by MAJ David Wallace made Sep 8 at 2015 4:32 PM

MAJ David Wallace — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 16:32:19 -0400

JROTC is a great opportunity to help young people become better and more involved citizens. I'very been looking at the curriculum recently and it teaches kids important life skills that many, unfortunately, are not picking up at home. The program teaches kids how to think and make decisions. If the kids are getting something out of the program and their family supports them, then the program should be fully supported. Mr. Peterman didn't complete the Air Force JROTC program so he really has no base of knowledge to speak about it. He has no dog in the fight. Last time I checked we still have an all volunteer force. Join if you want to after making an informed decision. If it isn't your cup of tea, try something else. Young people are a lot smarter and intelligent than Mr. Peterman gives them credit for.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 4:47 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 16:47:11 -0400

Ummm...ok.

Well, the way I see it is this: JROTC is a long way from a military boarding school, let alone contract ROTC. Heck, my cousin who ended up being a model in CA was in it for a couple years....I wasn't.

That said, and as a "father to be" of a son...I'm not entirely sure how I will want him to view military service. With respect-Yes! With desire-Maybe...maybe not. I'd rather he have the benefit of knowing how difficult a sacrifice he may be called up to make before someone fills his heart (including Yours Truly) with tales of heroism....honor...altruistic duty. We all know it's a lot more complicated than that.

If, at some point, my sixteen or seventeen year old son comes to me wishing to pursue a military career, I would support him all I could...but first, I'd sit him down with some folks who know the ins and outs and give him a dose of "reality".

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:23 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:23:17 -0400

I find it amusing that he criticizes JROTC for not exploring certain specific concerns in military populations, but yet he appears to have done little "exploration" of the benefits of continued service. He cites no sources for the problems or statistic he throws out in such a cavalier way, and he does not "explore" the possibility that perhaps exceptional selection, training, and retention might be part of the solution to such problems.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:30 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:30:32 -0400

Let's not pretend he doesn't have a point. The number of dead Iraqis we caused in the last decade is staggering. If someone is looking to sign up for a job rather than a calling, they can probably find a better one.

Edited for clarity:

I'm not saying I agree with him. I don't. I do, however, think he brings up a compelling point.

Response by SFC Terry Fortune made Sep 8 at 2015 5:49 PM

SFC Terry Fortune — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:49:14 -0400

Again a lot of kid's could use this program. It is one of the best program for teaching them self-discipline and self-confidence. No one is trying to get them in the military. That is a choice they have to make. I deal with a lot of kids that don't have the discipline or confidence. They are very easy targets for someone to get them do wrong. I hope the school board don't go along with this.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Sep 8 at 2015 6:50 PM

SPC Andrew Griffin — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 18:50:23 -0400

Why take away a VEHICLE that promotes Leadership?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 8:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:02:03 -0400

This vet has the right to express his opinion; however it is unfair to impose that opinion on the choice to choice to enroll in JROTC. We all know of the challenges of military service; it voluntary. The military is a profession that is voluntary in the country; it is a special calling, but any citizen who doesn't live in a bubble knows it has its hazards and sacrifices. JROTC is also a voluntary course; it is designed to teach students to be good citizens, leaders, team player; yes they use a military model but they do not teach tactics (they used to) but emphasize more of teamwork, heath, first aid, geography, history, community service, effective communication, oral and written (the oral part not taught enough of in the schools.) Yes it develops patriotism and an appreciation of our troops and we definitely need that but the program is voluntary and does not try to recruit into the service. (Some school programs may invite a recruiter as a guest speaker or help with drill or other training, but they simply give career information as would any other employer that comes to a school as a guest speaker; nothing wrong with that!) I was a JROTC cadet in San Francisco back in the 60s; I still support JROTC in the SF bay area at drill competitions, encampments and community event.
San Francisco public schools had a contentious battle over JROTC from 2006-2009. The school board voted to phase it out in 2006 due to DADT (still in effect then) and the Iraq/Afghanistan war. Thanks to the the cadets and several veterans organizations, they successfully had it overturned by 2009. The cadets crowded the board room and spoke very eloquently and passionately about it. They successfully argued that it about choice; its not a recruiting program; in fact only 1 or 2% choose to go into the service from San Francisco; it motivates them to do well and school and be successful with anything they do. I'm very proud of them; they got a real lesson in government and politics that they never get in the classroom!

Response by SPC Larry Boutwell made Sep 8 at 2015 8:15 PM

SPC Larry Boutwell — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:15:05 -0400

Doesnt sound like anything a soldier with nothing but good marks would say...js..

Response by MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP made Sep 8 at 2015 10:04 PM

MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 22:04:00 -0400

What I always say is that being a veteran doesn't automatically translate into credibility in military matters. You also have to perform.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Sep 8 at 2015 10:59 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 22:59:48 -0400

Sounds Hinkey to me!!!

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Sep 9 at 2015 6:13 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 06:13:56 -0400

"Peterman took the Air Force JROTC class for one year at Pottstown “but I didn’t pass because I didn’t to wear the uniform. I was just a dumb kid,” he said. Now a member of a group called Veterans for Peace, Peterman said he “enrolled in college, but I didn’t do that well either” and so at age 19, he joined the Army after the Sept. 11 attacks."

IMO, It seems that Mr. Peterson is an underachiever and maybe has an axe to grind and joined Veterans for Peace.

"Starting in 2003, Veterans for Peace became a major participant of protests against the Iraq War. In 2004, a Southern California chapters of Veterans For Peace began installing Arlington West, a weekly "temporary cemetery" in tribute to those killed in the war in Iraq, each Sunday in Santa Barbara and Santa Monica, California. In August 2005, Veterans For Peace provided support to Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a US Army soldier killed in Iraq who embarked on an extended anti-war vigil near the ranch of US President George W. Bush in Crawford, Texas.[9] In May 2004, one month after the death of her son, Casey, Sheehan had first learned of the organization after seeing coverage of the Arlington West display on television. On August 5, 2005 she spoke at the organization's 20th annual convention in Dallas, Texas, just a day before traveling to Crawford to begin her vigil. Members traveled from California to install an Arlington West display at "Camp Casey," the site of Sheehan's protest."

Any organization that supported Sheehan's bullshit is garbage IMO.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 8:06 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 08:06:09 -0400

He has the right to voice his opinion. In the end its the students choice, I have told my children I do this so they don't have to, but if they do decide to join I will make sure they are taken care of and make the best choice for them.

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Sep 9 at 2015 11:04 AM

LTC Hillary Luton — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 11:04:58 -0400

Interesting article. The Veteran has a right to his own opinion, and he has expressed it. We have the option to either agree or disagree. Considering how many kids the JROTC program has helped, I think it would be a shame to destroy a program that teaches, respect, discipline and direction in a world that is often lacking in these areas.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 9 at 2015 2:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:38:47 -0400

There are 3 components to a strong country: 1. Passionate citizens 2. A strong military 3. A government that serves its citizens. It is imperative we have this Trinity.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 3:02 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 15:02:06 -0400

My thoughts are he's an imbecile.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 9 at 2015 3:28 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 15:28:22 -0400

Sounds like his personal experiences in the military is pushing him to deter people from joining the military.
And I do take offense to his stance that the military is not a good option because of the sexual assaults, the danger of disability or death and more factors.
Even in the civilian world there is a problem with workplace sexual assault, workplace violence and more problems.
Nothing in life is easy and any job can be fraught with problems.

Response by PO1 Ramona Deters made Sep 9 at 2015 4:08 PM

PO1 Ramona Deters — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:08:51 -0400

Mike Peterman needs to grow up and mature some before running his mouth about a vital school program. JROTC helps high schoolers mature while teaching them commitment and discipline! So this program should stay. Boy you are still wet behind the ears, when they dry off, then you can open your mouth!

Response by Sgt Edward Allen made Sep 9 at 2015 4:10 PM

Sgt Edward Allen — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:10:39 -0400

I think it is a very poor idea. My nephew is currently serving. He has been for the past 12 years and truly enjoys it. (Granted he went Army Nat Guard, not Marine Corps) The JROTC program provided great role models for him and has allowed him to be a better soldier.
If you're a peacenik, admit it, don't try to cover it up. I can respect that more then trying to convince people otherwise.
The one person, in my years of active duty, that I had the least respect for. (Shall I be honest and say NO respect for?) was a person in my unit who joined the Marines for the educational benefits but said flat out that he didn't believe in war and would request discharge in the event of a conflict.
Be true to who you are. Don't lie.
Peterman has shown himself to be dishonest.
Back to the point, JROTC absolutely has a place in our schools. Remember, those who choose to serve are a breed apart from the rest of their fellow man or woman. Those who serve do so out of a love for their country and for those around them.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Sep 9 at 2015 4:32 PM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:32:14 -0400

I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of it. It's a recruiting tool. High School age teenagers are influenced easily and are likely to see the glamor, not the reality of military service. If they want, there's always college ROTC or the "opportunity" to enlist later on.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 9 at 2015 5:42 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 17:42:00 -0400

Personally I think that JROTC is a good thing. I think it builds character, leadership, and confidence. The problem is leadership. Not the leadership taught, but the leadership in command. If the JROTC program has good leadership, then the students will have a good experience, and will grow as a person. If the JROTC has poor leadership, then the students stagnate, and nothing positive comes from the experience. I have met kids from JROTC who are great examples of what the program can produce. I have also met kids who think that a high school JROTC uniform gives them an excuse to be a complete and total little asshole with impunity. It is all about how the leadership instills military values in their students. My daughter has a friend who was going down a bad road in life. She joined the JROTC program, cleaned up her act, got a job, and just completed Army Basic Training for the National Guard. She is a prime example of the good that can come from a JROTC program.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 8:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:25:44 -0400

I Think for some high risk students it is a great opportunity to see if it is right for them in the future. Some are better than others but don't throw the baby out with the bath water

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 9 at 2015 8:51 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:51:13 -0400

Maybe he tried to get into JROTC and didn't make it... so he joined the Army...maybe he didn't like the army...and he says he is not anti war....so if this is the case, why take this opportunity away from any kid who wants to check out JROTC?

Military is a GREAT option and should be the choice of the individual who wants to give it a try. It's not up to him or his choice to make the decision for every one else.

He doesn't have the right to make this decision for others...if he doesn't want his own children to experience JROTC then that is his prerogative, but to take this choice away from all others...NOPE...NOT a decision he should get to make.

And....what does JROTC or ROTC teach one? It teaches discipline...manners. Respect...courtesy...humility...to be open minded......so what exactly is wrong with JROTC??

It seems he's somewhat of a control freak...he home schools his kids to keep control of them and not let them enjoy the things kids enjoy...like other kids...interaction with other kids and teachers...games...sports....arts...crafts... and many other activities...spelling bee's, field trips etc....

What is he afraid of?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 10:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:18:42 -0400

Sounds like he had a bad time in and does not want people to go into the military.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Sep 9 at 2015 11:40 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 23:40:42 -0400

Well, as a 33 year veteran, and now a JROTC Instructor, I would liken him to the congressman in NY who attacked the program there; he (they both) had no idea what the program was about. JROTC positively (statistically) impacts attendance, GPA, ACT scores, and graduation rates. The mission of JROTC is "to motivate young people to be better citizens." It is not, a military preparation program or a recruiting arm.

He needs to be throat-punched.

http://www.usarmyjrotc.com/

U.S. Army JROTC

Response by LTC Henry Barber made Sep 9 at 2015 11:58 PM

LTC Henry Barber — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 23:58:37 -0400

Based on my experience with JROTC, it is a great option for students.

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Sep 10 at 2015 7:22 AM

MSG Ronnie Snider — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:22:13 -0400

Sorry, This should stay in the schools. Even those in the program that don't attend the military get a lot of it. This program teaches things that are not taught at home. Just look at the factors of LDRSHIP. If you don't know what that is please look it up.
I was not in the program in high school however it was there. 99% of the kids in this program will tell you they got something out of it.
The military comes with it faults just like everything else. Take a second look at it and you might understand why it needs to be there.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Sep 10 at 2015 7:51 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:51:29 -0400

While everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, for most students the JROTC is an extremely valuable resource. As LTC Private RallyPoint Member pointed it out, this program is one of the few that focuses on teaching civic duties. While I understand what Peterman is saying about the higher suicide rates and stuff, the JROTC program does not force anyone into the military. This program, in many schools, has done more good than bad for those that take part.

I would say that, you cannot question Peterman's Veteran status. Do not dip yourself down such a level just because you do not agree with him. He served so he's a Veteran. He may be doing things and taking part in things with groups you do not support but again, everyone is entitled to their own thoughts.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Sep 10 at 2015 10:48 AM

SSG Keith Cashion — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:48:22 -0400

My kids did JROTC in High School and excelled at it. They went on to college and the civilian workforce. The funny thing is, they never had any intention to join the military, but ended up marrying men you joined the military. They are Army Brats, and now what to expect. The JROTC program teaches kids a lot of things, it's not all about combat or recruiting. It instills pride, self respect, responsibility, community service and team work.

Response by CPT Griff Tatum made Sep 10 at 2015 11:54 AM

CPT Griff Tatum — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:54:12 -0400

I think it is good that "the military is an option" is an option of thinking at such a young age. As much as I have learned and as much as it has helped me as a person, I think that it is good to get these guys in at an early age to get a taste of what is out there instead of spending 4 years of their life playing a sport they will never play professionally. Where sports can be extremely beneficial as well, fitness and team building, ROTC just gives kids another option because not everyone likes sports.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 10 at 2015 12:20 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:20:11 -0400

There is always a fool in the crowd and soon that fool will spew his foolishness.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 10 at 2015 12:41 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:41:17 -0400

If that program is already in place, leave it alone. I see nothing wrong with someone's choosing the Military.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 10 at 2015 12:53 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:53:36 -0400

I think it is a not so good idea, but that does not mean he isn't entitled to express his opinion, nor does it mean that he is any less deserving of the term, 'Vet'. He served his time, did his duty. This is something that I see all the time on this forum, and something I have a problem with. The term 'Vet' says absolutley nothing about your opinions, values, morales, education, political affiliation, or anything else besides serving in the military at some time in your life. Vets are as diverse as non-vets, and to stereotype all vets with certain opinions or values does individual veterans a discredit. I know MANY vets who don't fit into any catagory.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 1:31 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:31:17 -0400

Guy's stupid. JROTC teaches about military but the mission of it is to make going people better citizens. So if you wanna get rid of that , I have lost faith in humanity. Dumbass

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 1:35 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:35:22 -0400

JROTC will not go away any time soon. It is under TRADOC and The National Defense Act of 1916. So if he wants it to go away in just that school it has to make up less than 10% of school population and they have to do terrible on inspection putting them on suspension until shut down. If the program is shut down legislation will have to be passed. Too much work.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Sep 10 at 2015 2:11 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:11:40 -0400

At the High School level, JROTCs (regardless of which branch's uniforms it wears) teach students the fundamentals of Leadership and arguably at least SOME Discipline. Whether these people ever join the military after graduation is almost an unrelated aspect. The students are not under any federal contract with this participation. I see it as little different than how the 4-year college institution is designed, where one usually take 2 years of across-the-board Exposure Courses to help them identify the subject/profession they want to pursue, then spend the latter 2 years focusing on that specific area. If you don't like it, don't do it. But why stop others who might like it? Many of these units also have Drill Teams who "compete" with other units from their district, and they often march in major public parades (Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, etc) where along the parade route, they are judged in front of a judging booth for their overall quality of military bearing. Likewise they also often have Rifle Teams where they can learn the fundamentals of Marksmanship in a safe and controlled environment (usually using Daisy pellet rifles on an indoor short range) and shooting scores also have become another form of HS-HS competition.

I'm not even sure what this guy's complaint is, but Id check him into a PTSD clinic just to be sure he is OK. I do mean that with the utmost respect.

Semper Fi.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Sep 10 at 2015 3:07 PM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:07:44 -0400

I remember when ROTC was dropped at Boston College during the Vietnam Peace Demonstrations. And I never understood why this happened.

Response by SSgt Khanh Pham made Sep 10 at 2015 4:08 PM

SSgt Khanh Pham — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:08:58 -0400

I say respect other people's opinion.

It is not anti military to do something that the military does not like. A small part of my opinion is that we are pretty much a military nation at the moment, and that is not much different than ISIS. If we successfully dismantle the legal infrastructure which isnt standing very soundly right now, we will slip down the slippery slope of military rule.

Response by MAJ George Buzby made Sep 10 at 2015 4:37 PM

MAJ George Buzby — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:37:58 -0400

He's welcome to his opinion...that doesn't mean we should publicize it. Just like Scouting, I think that JROTC offers many benefits.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 4:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:52:07 -0400

I think he's off his damn rocker. He may have had a poor experience in this profession, but that doesnt make it a bad one. And to take that kind of introduction into the very root of what makes up the Army away form the students is wrong. I know that my JROTC battalion still welcomes me warmly, and they were instrumental in getting me ready to go into the Army.

Response by SGT Doc Abel made Sep 10 at 2015 6:27 PM

SGT Doc Abel — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:27:46 -0400

I really want to see this guy's discharge code on his DD214. My spidey sense is telling me it reads something other than "Honorable". Whatever the VA is giving him must be really good for him to be thinking JROTCs are militarization centers. Also looking into the "Veterans for Peace" they sound like a handful of vets in or around Chicago that have some very delusional and over paranoid views on schools in general. I have a feeling this guy was "that joe" we've all seen who gets kicked out after 12months for failure to adapt.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Sep 10 at 2015 6:28 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:28:55 -0400

I think he got the 15 minutes of fame he was looking for.

He quit JrROTC, he quit college, and he decided to quit the military, now it is time to quit being an attention whore.

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 10 at 2015 6:51 PM

Cpl James Waycasie — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:51:52 -0400

He has the right to voice his opinion sure, but I don't think that he alone should get to make that call. I think JROTC is a great program for the youth to get a small feel of what Military life may be akin to. I know it won't give them actual "this is military life" knowledge, but it does provide some insight and knowledge that potential future military personnel can experience to help them better gauge if a career or even just a tour in the military is something they desire. It may also help weed out some of those who cannot hack the discipline. They may look at JROTC discipline and say to themselves I am not cut out for this. Personally, I have always thought JROTC is a fine program.

Response by CW3 Christopher Landis made Sep 10 at 2015 7:10 PM

CW3 Christopher Landis — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 19:10:24 -0400

Every village had its idiot! Pennsylvania found theirs!

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 10 at 2015 8:25 PM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:25:42 -0400

While the veteran stated he did not have any bad experiences during his service, I find that very difficult to believe. With his stated views, I would find it even harder to believe he joined while possessing such views.

That being said, while he has every right to voice his opinion, I do not agree with it. The article states that the group is very active in the realm of community service, and I think that is something this country could certainly use more of.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 10 at 2015 8:41 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:41:44 -0400

JROTC is about making good citizens and giving kids something to belong to. Many of them will never be qualified to join the military and many others will not do it. There is a nearby JROTC program and the instructor there told me that some of the kids did not even know how to thread a nut on a bolt because they did not grow up with a father. The high school that I graduated from now has one of the largest Navy JROTC programs in the nation and many of those kids are Hispanic. JROTC is a great program in helping high school students be more involved and more productive to our society. The article says he is a member of Veterans for Peace and if you click on the link, it is clear that he is anti-military.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 9:40 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:40:22 -0400

I was in it in the 90's. I joined it because I knew I wanted to go into the service at some point. He is ill informed and mis guided. The program is not there to teach kids how to prepare for service, more so it taught civics and leadership, citizenship. I was in a Navy unit with a retired brown shoe Commander and a black shoe Master chief.

Other than the uniforms and drill most of the course work after the first year was on government and the constitution more than it was on military subject matter. The first year did discuss basic military subjects like different rates ranks and career fields of the navy. After that it was a civics course.

My experience will be different an someone else's. My old crusty commander actually encouraged kids to goto college versus sign up as soon as we graduate. He did not discourage anyone who wanted to enlist after HS but he did sit down explain the good bad and the ugly of military service. In fact I would say only couple people I kens enlisted directly into various services. A few of us went to ROTC in college. But majority who graduated did not ever serve.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 11 at 2015 7:45 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 07:45:53 -0400

Well, he is a veteran so he helped earn our right as Americans to free speech, and he is entitled to his opinion.

But, opinions are like assholes. They usually stink!

It is also my right to think this guy is a douche.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 11 at 2015 8:07 AM

Cpl Chris Rice — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:07:03 -0400

I really like how the original poster put the vet in sarcastic quotations because having an antiwar opinion, homeschooling your children, and disagreeing with the use of JROTC in high schools disqualifies the services he rendered to our nation. Further his taxes pay for things that happen within that school, so that he homeschools his children does not disqualify him from having an opinion on the subject, if this idea held true then men would have no right to speak out against abortion is it on the uterus. I also find it strange that everybody jumps on the bandwagon against this gentleman, and then at the same time is very much opposed to federal involvement within the local school systems, because JROTC was developed in 1916 and was the first time the federal government was involved in the local school districts. Personally I think it's an okay program, and I've always been a strong advocate for returning civics to the classroom for everybody, on a mandatory level.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 9:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:03:28 -0400

After reading the article, it seemed like he is lashing out based on his own experiences. But his reasons are unfounded. Going to college you are just as likely to have some form a sexual assault/harassment. Its a same his views are twisted and taking his personal demons out on a program that teaches respect and discipline.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 11:52 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:52:39 -0400

As a graduate of the Army JROTC program we never pushed students into the military.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 11 at 2015 6:11 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 18:11:44 -0400

Even among veterans there are people who don't like the military. In my Vietnam chapter there was a guy who returned to Vietnam and was told all the POW were sent home in 1973----all of us thought he was an idiot for believing such rubbish---of course he's a diehard liberal.

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Sep 12 at 2015 2:18 AM

SSG Jim Foreman — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 02:18:35 -0400

So he isn't anti- military he just thinks ROTC makes the military look like a good idea. If that dumb statement isn't anti-military I don't know what is. ROTC is a great program it teaches many things that are used in everyday life. He doesn't want you to get the wrong idea but he makes it sound like you can't have a family and be in the military..... explain that to my wife and 6 children.
In my humble opinion this guy sounds like someone who wasn't made for military life and believes his negative experiences should be pushed on everyone.
One more thing.....who in the heck joins ROTC then doesn't wear a uniform? Maybe he carried those type of traits into the service.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Sep 12 at 2015 3:00 AM

PO1 Michael G. — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:00:15 -0400

While I disagree with his overall conclusion, I think that he may be highlighting an issue that is present throughout the recruiting process, namely that prior to a person joining the military, recruiters and public affairs types up-play the positives and downplay the negetives. I feel like this is a major reason for the feeling that many recently enlisted service members have a feeling like "we've been had!" And by that point, it is too late to really do anything about it other than to ride out the remainder of their enlistment. I feel that in a time when overall manning levels are trending down, it is a bad idea to have a military force that has this sort of universal feeling like, "Yeah, I got tricked." Maybe highlighting some of the realities beforehand would help prospective recruits to be better prepared for enlistment.

With that said, military life cam be a good life, even for families . I grew up on a Navy family; the Navy paid for my dad's baccalaureate and master's degrees, I got to live in a foreign country as a kid and learned a lot, and my dad's Navy retirement pay gave my family some stability while my dad was between jobs a couple of years ago. It was a good life for him.

For me, I pretty much hit a plateau at my old job and I had run out of college money, so enlisting was the right option for me at that point. Do I plan to stay in for 30 years like my dad? Probably. But I understand that I had the benefits of shared family experience to make a better informed decision about my enlistment. I think that this veteran who's drawing attention to the military's downsides is trying to help people get some of that perspective.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 12 at 2015 10:39 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 10:39:07 -0400

"He's not anti-military" is what it says, but Peterman doesn't want young men and women to develop as young leaders with military futures?

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Sep 13 at 2015 11:43 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 23:43:17 -0400

Anyone, including a veteran, is entitled to have an opinion. On the surface, Mike may appear to be out of step with the veterans community, but if we look below the surface, he may very well have a logical, compelling reason for his opinion. I personally question weather the students at that age have the maturity to understand what the program is all about. Are they playing army? Are they a "Cartman" (South Park) with delusions of grandure and love of power? Or, are they preparing for a career in the service?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 10:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Sep 2015 22:32:04 -0400

JROTC is a great program, one of the few still available across the country that it's still valuable. Why take it out? JROTC in no way tries to recruit kids into the Armed Forces, is not in their mission. JROTC's purpose is to build better citizens for the future, whether or not a kid decides to join after graduation it's up to him/her.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 3:50 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:50:31 -0400

SFC Mark Rumler, Have you ever noticed how one’s own actions and comments belie their true motivations? Here is a clear example from the comments about how he couldn’t make it in JROTC because of his failures, couldn’t make it in college because of his failures, and couldn’t make it in the military, but he’s found his calling in the Veterans for Peace. He says the JROTC is a recruitment tool? In Col Porters words; only 47 of the 80-100 Students that attempt JROTC finish the four year program and of those only 5 joined the military. Another thing, the JROTC instills discipline, endurance and a sense of worth for many who accept the challenge, not to mention the community service given in the cause.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 30 at 2015 7:49 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 19:49:44 -0400

There are 2.5 million people serving in the military that determined the military is a viable option.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Oct 1 at 2015 7:38 PM

Cpl Clinton Britt — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:38:30 -0400

Jrotc is a class and it helps with discipline. Most kids that are in Jrotc already are toying with the idea of the military.

Do recruiters tell us of all if the Side Effects of Military service, No.

That is up to we Vets when talking to our family members and friends children.

If it weren't for the Marine Corps, I would be I jail. I took AJrotc and lived it. It helped me make my decision.

It is up to the parents and the potential recruit or candidate to educate themselves

Seller Fi

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 1:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:28:48 -0400

We all have a right to our own opinion. He is expressing his. I do not agree with it, but I am in the service so he can exercise his rights.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Oct 3 at 2015 1:16 PM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:16:50 -0400

Training our impressionable young people that it is O.K. to kill; especially those who are not "natural born killers", is not good for the sanity of our culture. Violence qnd oppression is the last resort, even for a teacher like myself. And I do get frustrated.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2015 8:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 20:18:50 -0400

JROTC is an exceptional program that helps develop independence and structure. This program also is viewed on college applications as volunteer work, extracurricular programs, and can help with scholarships. Its bad enough they are removing music and sports programs.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jun 28 at 2016 10:28 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:28:38 -0400

These programs offer many disenfranchised students something positive, please do not take that from these young people.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Feb 15 at 2017 12:57 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 00:57:28 -0500

I happen to think that JROTC is a good idea and it prepares High School students for the Military and many of them follow up on that and enter the service. One High school in Lowell, MA has over 500 student in AF JROTC another High school has 300 in a Marine JROTC program. Also on par level with JROTC is the Civil Air Patrol Cadet program primarily for High School aged Youth although they can remain Cadets up to age 21. CAP is the official Auxiliary of the US Air Force. I worked with CAP Cadets for over 40 years and many of them went to College ROTC, US service academies, OTS, OCS etc. Many other entered the Armed Forces as enlisted members. I had been Cadet Myself in CAP although was also a Cadet at a Military Academy in an Army ROTC program. I know that experience helped Me and others when they entered the Armed Forces. Why would any member former or present of the US Armed Forces not hing that JROTC or CAP Cadet programs were not a good idea ? These Cadet do have their uniforms inspected and take pride in proper military appearances and their units as well. How many other programs get these young people headed this direction? Shown in the 1st picture here are Cadets from Air Force JROTC Color Guard at a Boston Red Sox game at Fenway Park, Boston. MA. The 2nd picture is a Cadet Color Guard from Army JROTC in a parade within the city of Lowell, MA 3-(3) AF JROTC Cadets in Marine Drill comp. (4) Cadets from US Marines, JROTC in formation. Click on each of the pictures to enlarge for a better view.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 15 at 2017 6:51 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:51:53 -0500

He must have issues with officer material, or officers in general.

Response by SFC William Stephens made May 2 at 2017 12:19 PM

SFC William Stephens — Tue, 02 May 2017 12:19:45 -0400

The OLD BASTARD has seen to many WAR movies and needs to go because he's making decisions out of his control.

Response by Jayden Manning made Jun 8 at 2017 6:37 PM

Jayden Manning — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 18:37:23 -0400

They never forced any one to serve in my HS they just want to teach us the skill to succeed in life wish I could have stayed in 4 years

Response by 1SG Christopher Turk made Oct 14 at 2017 12:51 PM

1SG Christopher Turk — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:51:27 -0400

The thing that immediately hits me is that the veteran and the school totally misunderstand or are ignorant of the mission of JROTC. "To Motivate Young People To Be Better Citizens". JROTC IS NOT A RECRUITING PLATFORM FOR THE MILITARY. Many people do not understand this. The veteran, the school, and maybe even the public seem to be uneducated about what JROTC teaches and the benefits of the program. Leadership, physical fitness, team work, character building, self improvement, problem solving, planning, and citizenship are just a few of the subjects that JROTC teaches.

If this were me I would invite this veteran and the school board to my school and have my student chain of command conduct an information and Battalion Continuous Improvement Plan briefing. I would invite them to events so that they could gain a full understanding of JROTC. In addition I would begin a public relations campaign to ensure everything our program completed was made aware to the public. Go out into the community and make a presence. Win the hearts and minds.

Response by PO3 J.W. Nelson made Oct 14 at 2017 5:52 PM

PO3 J.W. Nelson — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:52:41 -0400

Majority rules in this case !! I suggest that if he had a bad experience with JROTC while young that he just lick his wounds, go on with life and allow others to do the same !! Don't allow one bad apple to ruin the entire program !!

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 27 at 2018 9:50 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 27 May 2018 21:50:40 -0400

In light of his views he needs to recuse himself and his opinion. Everyone has a right to their opinion.. liberal groups will jump on it and use and twist to fit their agenda..

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made May 27 at 2018 10:02 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 27 May 2018 22:02:01 -0400

I think he has emotional issues. BTW, the majority of Jr ROTC students Don't enter the military. It isn't the same as college ROTC

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 28 at 2018 11:21 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 28 May 2018 11:21:00 -0400

His right, just like yours to promote the Program

Response by SPC Daniel Bowen made May 29 at 2018 2:55 AM

SPC Daniel Bowen — Tue, 29 May 2018 02:55:28 -0400

JROTC is a good program for younger individuals. It offers a strong sense of discipline, a better understanding and learning of leadership qualities at a young age, and teaches younger generations on how to use Microsoft Office, etiquette and rapport. There is much more to it, but it is one of the few programs that helps teach kids about discipline and individual responsibilities. I went through JROTC for three years, and lived at the school as well. Had I decided to stay in the public school system, I would not be where I am today.

It is more than just preparing kids for a potential military career, it helps them grow to become a more mature individual in society. Many kids go through JROTC and never serve, but it brings a lot more skills to the table in their younger years.

Response by A1C Liz Jordan made Aug 18 at 2018 2:41 PM

A1C Liz Jordan — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 14:41:34 -0400

JROTC teaches so much more then military. The history it goes over, science, basic engineering, life skills are just a few besides leadership and accountability. I know it isn't for everyone but to have it removed would be a huge detriment to many.