What are your opinions about the new generation of soldiers? What are some of your experiences?

2016-09-14T16:28:07-04:00

I've been seeing a lot of "New Boots" that come to units with the what ever attitude and lack discipline straight out of the gate. They feel as if there the regulations (AR670-1 mostly) do not apply to them, What are some of your ideas or encounters with this topic?

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 5:24 PM

2016-09-14T17:24:06-04:00

"It all leads back to our most basic training.. Discipline, Military Bearing, Attention to Detail, and the willingness to follow Orders." Perhaps we should start there. (Felt I'd summarize what I wrote more passionately below).

Personally, I think our leadership is having a hard time because the political agenda has been pushed so strongly on all branches. I do not disagree with the military moving in a direction of "professionalism" - though a lot of us have a hard time accepting this. It will ultimately make us better leaders. However, what I do have qualms with is when the political agenda starts putting our men and women at a higher risk. Changing the Rules of Engagement to the point where missions fail and people die because they cannot properly defend themselves or even neutralize an obviously aggressive or guilty enemy is not okay.. I've done enough research and read enough first hand account literature to know that something needs to be done.. But I digress.

Our leadership seems to be adjusting the military to accommodate the sensitive way of life of our "millennials" - I say this knowing full well that my age group falls into this category. This is also, not okay. We are only hurting ourselves. The military is not, and should not be all inclusive. The moment you are more afraid of kicking someone out or dropping them from training than you are pushing this person through into a warzone where they could get someone KILLED, we have failed. "Training Time Out".

We need to protect the integrity of the standards we have set for our men and women. This includes military bearing and allegiance to obey the orders we are given. I myself have been guilty of questioning the demands of my superiors, and quite frankly this type of mentality is doing us no justice. This "lawyer" and "I have rights" attitude will be our downfall. Treating everyone as peers and civilians instead of by their paygrade, is dissolving our hierarchy. The Navy can no longer yell at jacked-up Sailors, drop them for push ups, etc. We aren't even supposed to swear because it's been deemed "offensive."

We need to snap back to reality - the military is in place to protect our country and fight WARS. The enemy doesn't care about "fairness" nor "equality". They aren't going to stop shooting because you are having a bad day. SSgt isn't going to be there to tell you its okay when you forgot to bring your extra magazines and he's running low on ammo because he has to make up for the rounds you're not putting down range.. Enough is enough. Intensive training with obedient warriors is what we need, as well as the green light to put our training to use..

Lets get back into the business of producing warriors..

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-09-14T17:25:07-04:00

bring back old school boot camp, these new sm's are of the entitlement era, looking at getting ahead without doing much, paycheck, benefits, schooling, free food, free housing, they joined the millitary, so should we consider groomimg standards as well, time to dig deep are these the type of sm's we want defending us, maybe this is the answer to defense spending budget, tighten up enlistment, i come from a dying bread work ethic and pride

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-09-14T18:21:41-04:00

"New boots" is a relevant term. To me, you'd be a "new boot". I learned how to do trench clearing, patrol in the woods, walk uphill in the snow both ways in flip flops, and we were so damned tactical that we soaked our crackers in water before we ate them to keep our noise signature down. In my youth, the new kids ranger rolled their PCs in imitation of the ancient Grenada Raiders and Panama kids and didn't blouse their boots properly. What you see is just the same old thing, just a new generation.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-09-14T18:21:48-04:00

They are that way because the lack of leadership.. Prior to joining and when they are in

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 9:09 PM

2016-09-14T21:09:28-04:00

Soldiers are still people. People will always do what they can get by with. I only had to make a few guys dry shave and then guys took shaving much more seriously. Make guys walk around with their hand on their head for not wearing a PC, and they start wearing a PC. "Do you know what turtles f***ing sounds like?" Take soldier's K-pot off his head and tap him on the head with it a few times. "Do you know what prevents turtles from f***ing?" "No, sergeant." "Buckled chin straps do." Guys learn pretty fast with little things like this. However, it takes NCOs who are willing to put the work in. Not just in petty crap like uniforms and appearance, but in the major stuff such as MOS skill and physical fitness. My unit has a number of NCOs who are willing to put out the effort, and it makes a difference.

I don't care about a method. I'm looking to achieve results. I want trained, and effective combat engineers. If I have to be hard to get that, I will. If I need to be soft to get that, I will. I have had some conflict with another NCO who has a "well that's not the way I was taught" mentality. Get over it. If it takes twice as much work to train a soldier from this generation, (of which I'm part) then so be it. I don't recall the NCO creed giving a limitation to the amount of commitment I'm required to give. If I have to build a soldier's confidence, before I can make a killer 12b out of him, I will. I don't feel threatened by that. In fact, when I use physical correction, or make a soldier tie 100 girth hitches with an extra turn, because he tied a loose one, I generally tell him that it's because he's not fulfilling his potential, and often give a little motivational speech. Did this have to be done with a previous generation of soldiers? I have no idea. I wasn't around for it. It does seem to work though.

We do have a problem with guys coming in who are not ready for the service. Not mentally fit, not physically fit. However, the biggest problem is with leaders who aren't fit.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 15 at 2016 1:59 AM

2016-09-15T01:59:57-04:00

"I remember way back when during the Great War" "These new Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines aren't what they used to be" How long has this argument been going around. They said it about my Generation of Sailors in 79. Well on a certain level it was actually a good thing since by 1980 the Navy instituted Urinalysis and PT. Those Prior Sailors sometimes, a lot of times were too Fat to get thru an Escape Hatch and were Too Stoned to Find it. LOL! Yeah I've heard the same bitch for years.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 8:16 AM

2016-09-15T08:16:11-04:00

they are soft !!!

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Sep 15 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-09-15T12:40:50-04:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I saw some of this in 2011 ands 2012 as I was getting ready to retire and I contribute this to leadership down to the lowest level. Example, when I arrived at my first duty station as a PFC at Fort Ord, CA in the Co C, 2nd of the 17th Inf, 7th Inf Div is was made apparent to me right away that a SPC or SGT had a lot of power over me when it came to discipline and military courtesy. When a SPC or SGT asked a PFC, PV2, or PVT to do something, we did and with purpose, and it was even more prevalent once you were addressed by SSG and up. There was a lot of respect given in 1975 to your first line leadership and up. I remember my 1SG dropping individuals that didn't display proper military bearing or courtesy when given lawful orders or asked questions. I've had two CSMs at the Brigade Level that would correct a junior enlisted on the spot if they were in anyway disprepectful to an NCO. Not only would they correct the junior enlisted, but then they would take the NCO to the side and counsel them on taking charge and make on the spot corrections. So, after all that it comes down to leadership. I' can tell you that in the Marines there is very strick discipline, more so that I've observed lately in the Army. I also believe this is a function of the Commander and the unit. Some units are very well disciplined and others a lacks in their demeanor. I can't comment on the Air Force or Navy because I've not been in contact on a regular basis like I've been with the Marines and Army - just some thoughts to share with the group.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 5:17 PM

2016-09-15T17:17:44-04:00

I have heard the term "New Army" since I joined in 2006. Every generation gets called "New Army" and degrades the ability and discipline of the Soldiers.

We are as tough or soft as our policy makers allow us to be. I don't blame Soldiers for being themselves. They were trained (or not trained) due to the standards presented to them.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Sep 15 at 2016 7:33 PM

2016-09-15T19:33:45-04:00

I haven't seen too much of a problem, at least not with our newest Airmen. We've got two who came to our specific shop straight from Tech School and although they may not always abide by certain rules I drum it up to them not being informed of said rules or regs in the first place. Either that or they get the impression they can slide by because they see superiors doing it.

It's a lot about how supervision projects themselves around those new troops. It's hard for a leader to get on someone's case about breaking a rule when the leader them self is breaking the rule. I'm not saying this is what's happening in your case but it wouldn't hurt to observe yourself and your fellow NCOs when working with your younger soldiers to make sure you aren't possibly giving them a bad impression on how things work.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Sep 15 at 2016 8:35 PM

2016-09-15T20:35:44-04:00

They are smarter and that is good on one side of the coin but on the other they question things or are lazy or feel entitled.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Sep 20 at 2016 10:39 AM

2016-09-20T10:39:44-04:00

I think this happens to every generation. I remember when I was a SPC and SGT, my peers would look at the new guys coming in and collectively say "WTF?" But than again, thats what people said about us, and probably you as well.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Sep 24 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-09-24T22:24:34-04:00

WELL FIRST OFF IF YOUR THE SECTION SGT OR PLT SGT I WOULD CALL HIM OR HER ASIDE AND HAVE A NICE LONG TALK WITH HIM OR HER AND LET THEM THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IF I HAD TO SAY IT AGAIN TO SAME PERSON THEN I WOULD COUNSEL HIM AND TELL THAT IT HAPPEN MORE THAN TWICE I WOULD RECCOMMEND PUNSHIMENT UNDER UCMJ.