What are/were the requirements for Artillerymen to receive their CAB? Does firing a round constitute "actively engaging the enemy?"

2017-03-28T14:27:46-04:00

A fellow NCO and I were discussing this while reviewing the criteria for a CAB packet for Route Clearance Patrols. Our's was über limited and based on damage and injuries according to the S-1 shop. What constitutes "engaging or being actively engaged by the enemy" for other MOSes?

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Mar 28 at 2017 2:34 PM

2017-03-28T14:34:15-04:00

CPT Aaron Kletzing do you know the answer to this one?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2017 2:47 PM

2017-03-28T14:47:15-04:00

Last I recall, CAB can also be awarded for being within 200 meters of IED's. There's a MILPER message and/or ALARACT on this you should be able to find in S1net or G1 website.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 28 at 2017 3:16 PM

2017-03-28T15:16:26-04:00

Its not simply the SM engaging (like form long range in an Aircraft or Arty/..It is BEING engaged, or actively engaging "engaging or being actively engaged by the enemy"
If two arty units , enemy and friendly are exchanging rounds, then yes.
If an Arty unit is under small arms attack while lobbing rounds then yes.
If an Arty unit is lobbing rounds 2 miles away and not otherwise being engaged, then no.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 28 at 2017 3:46 PM

2017-03-28T15:46:24-04:00

The FA unit I was attached to received their CABs for merely firing in support of our infantry units. They were not under hostile fire at all. In fact, any FA soldiers who were not part of the fire missions for the first few months (mid tour leave etc) received their CABs during base mortar/rocket attacks.

Just my two cents, I do not feel an Artilleryman (person?) should get a CAB just for doing a fire mission. That is their job. I know regulations are regulations so my opinion won't change or influence squat, being out.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2017 9:27 PM

2017-03-28T21:27:55-04:00

I was on a JTF under Army Control in 2010-2011 and the rule for that command was NO base IDF, they would not get one for IDF on FOB, any CAB award had to be outside the wire and limits were had to be with in or closer than 25 of direct hit or placement of IED on foot and trip wire. You had to take machine Fire directly and or being shot at and returning fire. You also had to have three different witnesses statements. I will say this the Commander was a Ranger and had his CIB,so he wasn't giving shit away.

The Marine and Navy Instruction is stricter than the CAB and that is even after they authorized IED's. The instruction also states that IDF will not qualify of any kind. The other thing Marines do not award for fire missions by Artillery.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 29 at 2017 1:19 AM

2017-03-29T01:19:16-04:00

The 'Order of Santa Barbara' would not consider this a valid question?

Response by SP5 Alex Taurman made Apr 6 at 2017 12:15 AM

2017-04-06T00:15:14-04:00

In my opinion they do deserve a CAB if taking action against an enemy. Their job isn't on the front line to get shot at but to support those who are. If they cover our ass and take out some enemy combatants along the way they deserve that CAB regardless if they took direct fire. They covered us the whole time; just my two cents as 11b.

Response by SSG William Ward made Apr 12 at 2017 4:25 AM

2017-04-12T04:25:20-04:00

Being shot at

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 27 at 2017 2:40 PM

2017-08-27T14:40:39-04:00

I really don't care about awards but one of my triggers is having a bean counter decide my qualification. 13F is out there with the Infantry. Everyone else is either being thrown out of an airplane or a helicopter or arrives in a 30 ton armored vehicle full of explosives. Sounds like combat to me. We took 40% casualties.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 3:24 PM

2017-08-27T15:24:22-04:00

Regulation aside, don't combat badges such as these exist because of the inherent dangers associated with direct combat action? If one is not personally in danger of death/serious injury while engaging the enemy, I don't *personally* feel they warrant a combat badge. Otherwise a drone operator sitting in the safe comfort of a dark room far away from the battle could get awarded a combat badge for engaging the enemy. I have both a CIB and CAB, and probably like many of you, have seen people get awarded both of those badges for really ridiculous reasons (i.e. a mortar landed 100 yards outside of a FOB and lightly shook building someone was sleeping in, but not enough to even wake him up and notice). Instances like that de-value the award in the eyes of many Soldiers I think.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 5:22 PM

2017-08-27T17:22:12-04:00

What constitutes engaging or being actively engaged by the enemy is the same for any MOS despite fact infantry and medics have their own badges. If a Soldier have to fire his weapon no matter if it's an M16, 249, tank round, artillery etc due to enemy activities whether it's direct or indirect, that Soldier is both engaging and being actively engaged by the enemy. If a Soldier is on a FOB/COP etc and that FOB/COP get hit with indirect fire that causes that Soldier to seek cover, that Soldier therefore just been actively engaged by the enemy no matter how far or close the round landed......... That soldier qualify for a CAB.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Aug 29 at 2017 5:29 PM

2017-08-29T17:29:28-04:00

Sailors support land ops, not like you will find a sub to counter battery. Boat (crew) gets award, not cab but an award. Arty rounds kill, is this not engagement?

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Aug 29 at 2017 11:02 PM

2017-08-29T23:02:30-04:00

You would think that getting arty support would make you happy. It is a combat action, but if you prefer the gun crews having to fire a FPF and getting overrun to qualify, you have bigger issues than a badge.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2017 6:16 AM

2017-08-30T06:16:44-04:00

I would assume that its the same requirements as imposed on any other Soldier. Read the regulation, don't ask people for their opinion, read what it it says in black and white. I can assure you its much more stringent than the requirements for the CIB.

Response by SFC Robert Pearson -SFCPearson made Aug 30 at 2017 1:38 PM

2017-08-30T13:38:39-04:00

Never to old for a weapon that has been perfected, another example is the M2 heavy machine gun still in service and not being replaced anytime soon.

Response by SSG Roy B. made Mar 11 at 2018 6:33 PM

2018-03-11T18:33:53-04:00

We actually got motared daily,so kinda came with job,

Response by SSG Roy B. made Mar 11 at 2018 7:03 PM

2018-03-11T19:03:54-04:00

When I was a gun chief, I told my men that if grunts r forward observer was calling for fire, that meant men r dying, get the rounds down range as FAST an safe as possible, I started on 8", then 198,then 109A6,Then triple 7,loved being a artilleryman, 99% VS FOR THAT 1% When she goes BOOM,NOTHING ELSE LIKE IT, MAKE UR DICK HARD AS REBAR !!!

Response by SGT Taylor Hughes made Jan 18 at 2020 2:00 PM

2020-01-18T14:00:39-05:00

As an Artilleryman myself while everyone is running for a bunker or cover when receiving IDF it’s the Artillerymen running towards their guns under fire weather it be from small arms fire or incoming enemy rockets to conduct counter fire Missions That is the definition of engaging and being engaged by the enemy fire. We hear TIC we get to the guns as fast as possible so we can cover our infantry brothers asses while at the same time receiving IDF. So yes I think they deserve it.