Posted on Oct 29, 2018
What are some original ways you have found to deal with a disrespectful/insubordinate Soldier?
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So I have a Soldier that was transferred to me some weeks ago (as the HQ "Platoon Sergeant" and training room NCO, I'm pretty much the dumping ground for Soldiers with legal issues). This Soldier already had a Company Grade AR15 in the works for 2 counts of FTR, 1 disrespect towards a Senior NCO (BDE CSM), and 1 lying to an NCO. Since being in my section, he has had multiple more FTRs, disrespect towards NCOs, failure to follow orders, and 1 case of technically being AWOL although he claims to have been in the area (CO let him go on leave before imposing his article 15, he admitted to having a Soldier sign him back in off leave, but then recanted and claims he signed in personally although no SDNCO ever saw him come in). all along he is claiming that he just wants to do his job, but that all the NCOs have it out for him and it's a race thing. So I've tried the "I'm taking rank off, this is a conversation Soldier to Soldier. What's going on, man?" approach, I've tried ass-chewings, I've counseling him, I've even sat him down and read verbatim from regulations and UCMJ to try to show him what he is doing wrong, but nothing is getting through. With the pattern of misconduct already displayed by him, a chapter is definitely going to happen, but until he's out, what are some other ways I may be able to reach him?
UCMJ
Counseling
Leadership
Disrespect
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 45
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I fully admit that it appears to be a different time than when I was on active duty. So what?
My standard, that I enforced with swift, and severe punishment was "Immediate, intelligent obedience." It is battlefield survival skill. A soldier who bucks authority over small stuff and requires more than your lawful order in garrison or in training, will most likely do the same in the presence of the enemy.
A Marine only got one bite at the apple when it came to disrespect, insubordination, false official statements and/or willful failure to carry out a lawful order. Your chain of command is failing you and failing ALL the good soldiers entrusted to their care. But it is, what it is. So let's deal with the reality of your situation.
A caution to you... never take off your rank or say you have. You worked hard to get that rank. In my book a leader who volunteers to set his/her rank down, should have to earn it back. Mentoring and having heart to heart conversations doesn't necessitate abandonment of rank, even temporarily. You are reinforcing that seniors don't have the welfare of their subordinates properly prioritized.
Now on to your question. Scour the command for crap details, that are actual necessities. Never give a soldier "busy work" as a punishment. Select an appropriate sized detail to accomplish it, those with bad attitudes may not have figured it out, but they are volunteering for said details. If they ask why you are always picking on them, tell them why. If they complain it is unfair, let them know it is unfair that they get they draw pay for less than their best, so you are "evening things out."
Assign the task, and make sure that when they are dismissed from the regular unit work to start on the crap detail, there is not time to complete it before the the rest of the unit secures. About an hour or two extra should be about right. Then be a leader and stick around and personally supervise the after hours work. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give an order you won't personally enforce. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow personal convenience to postpone justice.
If your chain of command tells you, "you are too hard." Tell them that your standard is immediate, intelligent obedience:
_that you are not receiving that,
_that you are addressing that lack of immediate intelligent obedience,
_that you are not being supported by the chain of command, and
_that the chain of command's indifference to is breeding contempt for authority.
Stand your ground until you receive an explicit order to "give it up." Comply, but request an open door conference with their superior. If necessary, keep bumping it up until you get to the CG. Crap leaders is not a pack with which you choose to run.
My standard, that I enforced with swift, and severe punishment was "Immediate, intelligent obedience." It is battlefield survival skill. A soldier who bucks authority over small stuff and requires more than your lawful order in garrison or in training, will most likely do the same in the presence of the enemy.
A Marine only got one bite at the apple when it came to disrespect, insubordination, false official statements and/or willful failure to carry out a lawful order. Your chain of command is failing you and failing ALL the good soldiers entrusted to their care. But it is, what it is. So let's deal with the reality of your situation.
A caution to you... never take off your rank or say you have. You worked hard to get that rank. In my book a leader who volunteers to set his/her rank down, should have to earn it back. Mentoring and having heart to heart conversations doesn't necessitate abandonment of rank, even temporarily. You are reinforcing that seniors don't have the welfare of their subordinates properly prioritized.
Now on to your question. Scour the command for crap details, that are actual necessities. Never give a soldier "busy work" as a punishment. Select an appropriate sized detail to accomplish it, those with bad attitudes may not have figured it out, but they are volunteering for said details. If they ask why you are always picking on them, tell them why. If they complain it is unfair, let them know it is unfair that they get they draw pay for less than their best, so you are "evening things out."
Assign the task, and make sure that when they are dismissed from the regular unit work to start on the crap detail, there is not time to complete it before the the rest of the unit secures. About an hour or two extra should be about right. Then be a leader and stick around and personally supervise the after hours work. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give an order you won't personally enforce. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow personal convenience to postpone justice.
If your chain of command tells you, "you are too hard." Tell them that your standard is immediate, intelligent obedience:
_that you are not receiving that,
_that you are addressing that lack of immediate intelligent obedience,
_that you are not being supported by the chain of command, and
_that the chain of command's indifference to is breeding contempt for authority.
Stand your ground until you receive an explicit order to "give it up." Comply, but request an open door conference with their superior. If necessary, keep bumping it up until you get to the CG. Crap leaders is not a pack with which you choose to run.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
This advice transfers to the civilian world too. I worked for an operation manager when after my last active duty stint that was one of the most hardcore and by the SOP managers I ever worked with in a civilian job. Didn't bother me since that is effectively what I just came from, but it took the civilian help a bit to get used to dealing with his method. In the long run, it was one of the best run operations in the chain. Everyone knew exactly where they stood and his enforcement of the rules was completely fair across the board.
A former Marine too.
A former Marine too.
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COL Jon Lopey
MAJ Bell: I was a Marine during the Viet Nam Era. I was a corporal and later, a sergeant. I have to agree with you about disrespect and disobedience. The lack of discipline undermines a unit's readiness and ability to accomplish the mission. I saw a lot of poor performers transformed by good NCOs and/or officers into good Marines but there are some bad Soldiers or Marines that can infect a good unit like a cancer and yes, sometimes that cancer has to be cut-out. I still think some firm, fair, but direct and unrelenting counseling and discipline may still save this Soldier, but in the final analysis, you are right, one bite at the apple is really all he deserves. Semper Fi, COL L
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Maj John Bell
COL Jon Lopey - I may have used "one bite" incorrectly. The outcome from one bite wouldn't be career ending, but the second bite most assuredly was.
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Gots to go...he can't be fixed. What I have done inthe past is the empty chair test. What i mean is that I put an empty chair in the office. I imagine him sitting in it and then I imagine the chair being empty. If I and the Air Force are better off one man short with an empty chair than I am with a dead weight in it then he has to go. Sounds like this may be the case. I would cut ties and get him out with a no reenlist code on his DD214.
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
The Army tries to rehabilitate the Soldier; my father taught me that there is no such thing as rehabilitation for folks.
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COL Jon Lopey
SSG & MAJ: You are right about the desire to rehabilitate; however, as leaders, we at least have to try to salvage an otherwise poor performer but at some point you have to cut the lifeline and spend your time with the warriors willing to learn, grow, and comply with orders, regulations, and other demands of a tough profession. Semper Fi, COL L
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PO1 Dennis Herdina
I do not know if this helps here> I was an E6 in the Navy. we were deployed in unit exercise for a fleet hospital. my assigned duty was to manage security personnel matters or problems presented as part. of exercise.on the third day of exercise due to what i felt was oversight. jumped chain of command and took the problem straight to Capt (4 bar). time was short and the problem needed immediate resolution. technically job and problem were mine. however, i lacked what i felt was authority to solve the problem. my immediate supervisor an E7 chief was unavailable as was his superior.i t involved several junior rankers who had been overlooked (20 of them). i did get the problem solved by the Capt. However, i knew instantly i had screwed up badly by going straight to exercise commander for solution. my immediate supervisor was informed of what i had done and was chewed out.and as the saying goes the fecal matter rolls down hill. he called me off to the side later and told me was wrong in how i got the solution to the problem but he gave approval to why i did it. told me not to do it again (jump chain of command).. i agreed with him that what i did was wrong way. my point is that perhaps as i later did myself that it might work if his immediate supervisor takes him off to the side and just issues a verbal warning. If it continues that is another level of problems. as i said i was in a similar position later and i used the quiet verbal warning explanation it worked the indiv later turned out to be a fine supervisor in his own right.
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Probably a lost cause at this point, some people just cannot be taught or reasoned with. Even if you put him in front of the Commander and rank, pay, and his free time is taken from him, he still might not "get it". Only thing that comes to mind is align him with a Soldier that is somewhat squared away to see if there's any influence they could have on him. Best of luck.
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