What advice would you have for a military couplens strained by medical obligations?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:45:51 -0400

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Apr 7 at 2016 12:47 PM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:47:56 -0400

Yikes! The divorce can proceed; she loses access to healthcare (after the baby is delivered) and the baby continues to get healthcare until 21. This seems rather odd considering the economic state of affairs at this time; more people are staying together and moving into separate bedrooms rather than divorce.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 12:52 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:52:31 -0400

If the solder is overseas, I would leave well enough alone. Deal with the problem prior to return to CONUS and set him up in the geo-bachelor quarters.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Apr 7 at 2016 12:57 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:57:55 -0400

Sounds like they have found a few really good reasons not to separate (or divorce). Decisions/actions have consequences. They need to weigh them all. Just like getting married and having children are big, important decisions with consequences.

Not sure if counseling has been tried, perhaps meeting with their pastor or others etc. Unless there are issues of domestic violence in the mix here (do not know that to be the case) they may want to work harder at the marriage. Just my two cents. A single mother and child (especially with health issues) is a recipe for poverty and struggle. Very tough situation.

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Apr 7 at 2016 1:17 PM

SGT Edward Wilcox — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:17:04 -0400

Family gets shipped home with all the household goods. Does she have family to return to? Soldier returns to the barracks. She continues to receive BAH to pay rent for her and the children and also gets medical to cover the pregnancy. This gives them time to calm down and talk over their differences, decide if there is room for reconciliation when he returns home from tour. Counseling would be a good idea, but sometimes you just have to step away from the problem for a little while to gain some perspective.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Apr 7 at 2016 1:17 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:17:24 -0400

Taking my heart out of the equation, It would be best for them to separate, being together is adversely affecting the children. If these are his biological children they will still be covered under DEERS, as long as he has them enrolled in DEERS. Once separation is in effect, send her back to wherever she is from, I believe her parents or someone would take her in until she gets on her feet, I am only speculating on this. He can then get bachelors QTRS as they are divorced (I am unsure on separation). He would have to pay child support, because he cannot have bachelors qtrs. and have children with him. This is the only way I see this being resolved unless these 2 can put aside their differences. For the kids sake either they need to cohabitate like decent human beings, or separate the Children do not need this extra stress of their parents fighting in front of them. My opinion only May be better opinions out there. Difficult situation you are a great PSG for working with this Soldiers issues! Remember when Soldiers stop asking you for help, they no longer respect that you will help them!!!! Great Job SFC Sutherland!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Apr 7 at 2016 1:21 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:21:16 -0400

Bring the Soldier into the PSG's office for a sit down, and "come to Jesus" moment. Have him bring in his finical statements and LES for the last year in. Look in his counseling packet and see has he been sent to financial management and what was the outcome of that? Have him outline expenditures the family has, and explain any "needless" items that make no sense. This conversation has to be a "participative" counseling session being I need additional information to make an informed decision with his squad ldr, or section SGT.
While talking about finances, I'd bring up the issues with the marriage. Have they seen the chaplain, sought out marriage counseling? If not, I'd recommend they see one, the other, or both. If there has been ANY violence in the home (I'd probably do this anyways), I'd yank him into the barracks and he can see his children with a NCO present. In my counseling that I'd forward to the 1SG and CO, I'd put in there "You will not have ANY contact without a NCO present". "If you see your family out and about, leave the area. No hands gestures, motions with the lips of any kind, and no arguing". At this point I see that while I'd recommend counseling to them, it's a lost cause already, but I have to do my due diligence, and that includes walking his happy ass home to get HIS belongings. If possible the MP's would be there in support. Again he'd acknowledge there will not be ANY unsupervised visits with the family. If the kids want to see you at ANYTIME, let a NCO know, and you will be afforded the chance to be with them.
I've done two of these, and they're or were called EROD (Early Return of Dependents). It is a MESSY affair, it is one of the uglier things I've had to do, but to save the Soldiers, it had to be done. In this case, once I hear that there is no hope, then this would be done to her. Wherever she wants to go is fine, and the packout again would be supervised with a NCO with the Soldier, and MP's overlooking it all. Once compete and the family is out of the country, I'd rescind my no contact order being now he can talk to them on the phone, but any leave would be verified location wise. She would be told that she can still have the child's surgery there at the local Post hospital, and if none are nearby, contact TRICARE, and let them sort it out. The Soldier would make an allotment to his wife to support her (without breaking himself) and the kids until he PCS's or ETS's. With the family gone, my focus is to keep the Soldier busy and surrounded by friends who would look out for him, yet report to me any problems they detect no matter how small. My ONE concern is when the child goes into the hospital, the father is going to want to go, and he SHOULD go. I'm hoping that in the meantime he gets himself together and knows how to handle himself without us there, and the surgery is a success, he doesn't get into any trouble, and he comes back mentally effective and ready to do what has to be done as a Soldier. I'd hope that time apart would give them a chance to look at each other and think is this the best course of action; for US and the KIDS, and they decide to stick around with each other. If not, when he comes back, send him to JAG and lets get the ball on the military side rolling.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Apr 7 at 2016 1:27 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:27:41 -0400

You are showing good leadership because you care for the welfare of the Soldier and family. We NCO's aren't all experts on solving all domestic issues, but we all should be experts on guiding the Soldier to the proper resources that are available to assist with these kind of issues.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Apr 7 at 2016 1:45 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:45:04 -0400

MSG Private RallyPoint Member Seems to me that, if the soldier cannot solve this situation on his own (and your involvement indicates he has asked for assistance or that it is impacting his duty performance and you became involved without his request), the chain of command should get involved. As a commander, if I was faced with this situation, I would probably direct that the family be returned to CONUS (ensuring they would be able to get medical care at a military hospital or through TRICARE), move the soldier in the barracks, and ensure his BAQ and other money goes to his family (yes, there are ways to ensure that). It would be much easier/better if they concurred with the idea, and I think a commander could convince them to. If the marriage is already in trouble, it seems best to go ahead and separate them (easier to do in an overseas location, as the commander can direct early return of dependents for a variety of reasons), while doing what can be done to ensure the medical issue is able to be taken care of.

The only other option I would give them is to solve their issues. If not, I would get the family out of country.

Although I never had this specific situation to deal with, I had several similar issues and all were worked out successfully (or, at least, as best as we could hope for).

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 7 at 2016 2:02 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:02:30 -0400

If they cant get their shit together for a baby, I don't have any answers.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 7 at 2016 2:14 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:14:36 -0400

They need the chaplain.

Response by PO3 Nichalas Enser made Apr 7 at 2016 3:32 PM

PO3 Nichalas Enser — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:32:00 -0400

MSG Private RallyPoint Member ,

This is tough, but similar things happen all the time.

If they have any love for their ill child *and their other children*, then they can take over separate rooms, until the medical issue is resolved - and attend family counseling, since it surely sounds like they are impacting their other younglings. The adults can attend counseling of their own, either to just make it through this stage and, or, to help devise a way forward, with assistance. Perhaps some trusted servicemembers or even their spouses could bunk out on the couch, *temporarily* to help act as buffers. Maybe a friend would even allow the servicemember or spouse to stay in their home, other than when they are on duty or doing their part to care for their offspring and their home.

Once the acute phase of the medical situation is dealt with, the situation may well improve, organically - coming together for the good of the youngling and such or it may not.

If not, then the couple will be in a better spot to arrange for a divorce and then they can, better, plan for how to separate in the best way possible *for the younglings*. Perhaps the husband would get custody or the wife, but they could figure out help with the living situation state-side, for the spouse, via friends, family, religious group, government programs, et cetera. The service member may well need to request to be separated, as well, to care for the younglings or to, better, afford alimony and child support, but that bridge will have to be crossed at that time. In the interim, in addition to their service obligations, counseling, and obligations to their offspring, the servicemember and spouse can begin cramming to take as many courses, possible, to help with any such separation, while awaiting the surgery and the recovery period - between all of that, they should have little time to argue or fight with one-another.

Best of luck as you help - and best of luck to their offspring and to them!

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Apr 7 at 2016 6:28 PM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:28:59 -0400

Where is the leadership in all of this? Why is there no council involved. Get help and put the children first.

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Apr 7 at 2016 9:18 PM

PV2 Scott Goodpasture — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 21:18:38 -0400

Sounds like marraige

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Apr 8 at 2016 9:49 AM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:49:05 -0400

So alot of folks on this thread seem to take the approach that the couple should be separated and of course the service member should pay to support the family, with the non-waging earning spouse taking the children. As a practical operational matter, that may be the most expedite course, but it does not address the underlying issues and in fact creates further problems.

Having gone through a very contentious divorce during my time in the service that involved custody and support of minor children, the 'old school' "All your BAH and 12 of your pay goes to your wife " approach that my Sgt Major took was a major problem (he actually 'directed' me to do that). It took a request mast and my attorney getting a subpoena duces tecum and hauling the Sgt Maj into court to get the command out of the issue. That was one of the events in my last 5 years of service that was a factor in deciding I had enough of the bullshit and it was time to retire.

If there is a command issue here, and the welfare of the children are at stake , don't make it worse. You have no way of knowing what the best interests of the children are, which is the critical factor - it is not clear from the article if both parents are service members, that would be an additional complicating factor.

Which parent is better suited and able to care for the minor children? Are there domestic violence (be careful in making assumptions at who is at fault) abuse issues, alcohol or drug issues, sexual abuse? Putting the service member in the barracks may not be the correct approach.

It is probably best served to hardship the service member back to Conus and let the domestic legal system sort out the issues. An overseas command is not equipped to deal with complex issues of marriage and custody resolution.

I would also offer a caution based on my own personal experience. While a command may want to 'do the right thing' , it can often make things worse. Be especially careful when dealing with child custody issues, without a court order a commanding officer or sergeant major can put themselves in personal civil legal jeopardy for custodial interference.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 8 at 2016 4:57 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:57:46 -0400

Marriage counseling