What advice and thoughts do you have regarding my response to an upcoming Article 15?

2018-03-29T01:14:41-04:00

I graduated ait in the top of my class. I have a 275 pt score. I had never been in trouble. Some one pranked me and I pranked them back by urinating in his shampoo bottle. Long story short someone told my plt sgt. And a 303 informal investigation was started. I told the truth right off the bat of what I did. If I am man enough to do it I am man enough to say it. I have been a hold for four weeks after being flagged two days before graduating. I still graduated but I am waiting for my article. My Company commander came up to me at last formation 2 days ago and said “I just want to let you know your packet came back from legal, we have a few things to talk about. We will be talking soon.” He then asked if I wanted to stay in. I of course said yes. He said alright we will be talking soon. I have prepared in mind what I would like to say which is,
Sir. I understand that what I did is wrong and poorly reflects my ability to follow the army values and I regret doing what I did but at the end of the day what is done is done. If I could go back and not do it I would. I have learned a big lesson regarding 2nd and 3rd order effects. I accept the consequences that come with my action. I would like to recieve my punishment for what I did and then drive on with the mission. What do you think he meant when he told me what he did? And how does that sound?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 2:14 AM

2018-03-29T02:14:24-04:00

PVT Private RallyPoint Member; that's the best thing you could say. If this is the whole story and there isn't any other baggage going along with it that will come out later, I'd expect you'll be fine. Take it seriously and own up to it. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can almost guarantee that when your commander heard about this he laughed his a$$ off...if this is the whole story. He is going to be annoyed at dealing with petty BS, but that's funny right there. Now, yes it's wrong. I think we can all agree that urinating in someone's shampoo is not an adult thing to do, but in my opinion (OPINION), it's not something you'd throw someone out of the Army for. If it were me, I'd file it locally and suspend punishments, but that's up to your commander and how much of a point he has to make. What you said is fine. Stick to it. Be prepared to answer questions truthfully and with honor. Don't piss in someone's shampoo again.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 2:50 AM

2018-03-29T02:50:56-04:00

PVT Private RallyPoint Member You have admitted that you made a mistake and that it will not happen again. I like what you are prepared to say, and that you are willing to accept the consequences of your actions. Keep us posted on the outcome.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 3:26 AM

2018-03-29T03:26:18-04:00

The urine is a big issue. They can’t bust you anymore than you are. So extra duty and pay is all they have. Worst case summary courts martial. That could get you some time in confinement. I think the max is 30 days. Those are pretty quick and easy. Or it could be that they send it up to battlion for a field grade 15. The point is it could be anything so try not to stress and listen to the commander read you the charges. He knows you want to stay in and you said the right things so you should be relatively good. It all hinges on how aggressive the SJA is on the urine. Good luck.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 8:14 AM

2018-03-29T08:14:21-04:00

First and fore most WTF this is extremely childish behavior I would expect way more from a individual that wants to be a Soldier. Now what you plan on saying is very mature and acceptable take your punishment and learn from it. Whatever action that occurs will not follow you to your duty station yes they will know that something happened but what happened is done and over with. Best of luck whatever is decided due your time and move forward.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-03-29T08:53:11-04:00

I'll keep my personal feelings regarding how this issue went even this far to myself...other than to admit I've "been there" on a similar issue once.

NJP can be intimidating, but much depends on the rank of the adjudicating officer. It sounds like this is staying at the Company level, so I would presume you'll endure it, take a hard lesson learned, and move forward-ruffled, but wiser all the same.

For me personally (bear in mind I've been away for over a decade), if there's nothing else to this case we don't know...your obvious commitment to stay in, record thus far, and apparent integrity should factor heavily in your commander's decisions.

Best of luck, and let us know how it pans out.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 9:43 AM

2018-03-29T09:43:22-04:00

"...I understand that what I did is wrong and poorly reflects my ability to follow the army values and I regret doing what I did but at the end of the day what is done is done..."

I would leave out the "what's done it done..." it gives a whiff of "whatever".

Occams' Razor applies here... K.I.S.S.-->
"What I did was piss-poor judgement and I fully understand how it contradicts the core Army values. I regret what I have done and I have learned an incredibly valuable lesson that will follow me for the rest of my career which I plan to continue in the Army."

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 29 at 2018 9:46 AM

2018-03-29T09:46:45-04:00

Haha oh boy you'll fit in with the infantry just fine... like you said, learn from your mistakes and drive on.

Response by SGT Eric Davis made Mar 29 at 2018 10:01 AM

2018-03-29T10:01:54-04:00

I won’t make another comment but putting piss im a shampoo bottle is pretty nasty and bad hygiene!!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 10:19 AM

2018-03-29T10:19:59-04:00

I think there might be an additional issue here that goes unmentioned.
"Someone told the Platoon Sergeant".
This strongly implies that you might have been talking smack about your counter-prank, which will draw leadership attention every time.
Think about it, readers - the recipient of the urine laced shampoo would have an interest in staying quiet out of embarrassment. If he squealed to the PSG, especially after his undefined prank that started things, he is a barracks rat. Nobody wants to be a barracks rat.
However, the smack-talk probability is high with this one, and I can see word getting around especially if anyone was fighting mad or crowing too loudly.
Let that be a lesson to you.
Pranks and jackassery are part of the Army experience, and the best way to keep from being a target (outside of vigilance and good locks) is to be a superior counter-prankster. I myself have pulled a few back in the day. But that doesn't make it right. Nor is it ok to destroy property or personal possessions in some kind of practical joke war. There are no winners, just mutually assured destruction.

Having said that, unless you go in to the commander's office with a bad attitude, you are likely to get suspended punishments.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Mar 29 at 2018 11:40 AM

2018-03-29T11:40:06-04:00

If you mean that then go with that. I hope you don't do something like this again. It's pretty petty and childish and not worth the trouble.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 29 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-03-29T13:23:24-04:00

PVT Private RallyPoint Member "What do you think he meant when he told me what he did?"
Just what you think it does, Part one reading of your Art 15
"And how does that sound?"
If its true, pretty good...If its just what you think he wants to hear..well I think you know.,

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 29 at 2018 4:16 PM

2018-03-29T16:16:18-04:00

Oh hell, now that I've stopped laughing and my computer screen and key board are dry..... Peeing in someone's shampoo bottle, canteen or any other container that may result in the urine being ingested is bad business. During UCMJ action keep your statement brief and to the point. What you have written is about as good a way to handle it as any.

By far not the worst of barracks shenanigans I've seen or heard of, but definitely unsanitary. In my day I'd have recommended the CO give you a company grade and be done with it. That was however before the hazing melt down with Troops getting seriously injured. Heaven only knows how absolutely freaked out the COC could get today.

My first duty stations' barracks were open bay, with the platoon all together minus the NCOs and I will say that you, even by the way back days standards seriously crossed the line on prank retribution.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 5:05 PM

2018-03-29T17:05:41-04:00

I saw there was a concern about this following you to your next unit. Don’t worry about it following you. My daughter got her article 15 and three months later got her acceptance to West Point. And if that gets to your next unit people won’t mess with you cause that’s just nasty! Good luck and you will fit right in to the Infantry- probably fit in as a paratrooper. So if you were not already heading to airborne school...I would say you don’t have a hair on your nuts if you don’t ask that company commander to send you to airborne school after he reads you the charges. A retaliation like that you will fit right into the 82nd or even the 173rd. That was some real paratrooper retaliation!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 12:14 AM

2018-04-05T00:14:42-04:00

PVT, the fact that you were upfront, honest and remorseful definitely helps your case. Hopefully, it all works out. Everyone makes mistakes. However, receiving an article 15 for your actions is somewhat warranted. To what extent is debatable. I recommend you speak with a JAG officer! You are entitled to one if you want to counter an article 15. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would do.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 5 at 2018 12:59 AM

2018-04-05T00:59:48-04:00

Just what the hell he said- get use to it- people saying what the mean. Legal has given him advice on what he can do- now he is ready to hear your reasons and mitigating circumstances. Also he has to balance you act against your potential to the Army. When he is ready- you will have a talk- and you need to lay out all the reasons he should keep you in.