What actions would you recommend an enlisted service member take after being disrespected by an officer?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 02:49:18 -0500

I work as a medic in an army hospital. I am a specialist (p) that has been put into an E-6 / Shift Leader Position. I work side by side army officers each and every day. These officers are the nurses and doctors around me. I respect them as officers and always address them as sir or maam.
The other day I was sitting at a computer station with one of my brand new soldiers. The department was basically empty, about 5 patients. I was showing this soldier the computer system that we used to chart patient records. An army nurse, whom has the rank as a captain, comes around the corner and says "Hey, how about instead of sitting around and doing nothing, you go stock the empty blanket warmers, oh and, some of my carts are empty, and you should stalk those as well." In a completely disrespectful tone and along with agressive body langauage. We immediately stood up, and made our way to stocking blankets. I pulled the officer aside, one on one, away from everyone else, and as the shift leader i said "excuse me maam, can you instead of saying (what was said above) can you please treat me and my soldiers with respect and instead say "hey the blanket warmers are empty" or something like that, and we would have jumped up and done it without a problem. Her response was "you realize I am a captain and you are a specialist". My response was "yes, but you have to realize that i am acting as the shift leader and asking you to please treat me and my soldiers with respect in the future". Her responds was that she should put me at the position of attention.
I have spoken to my leadership... My SFC on three seperate occasions over the span of 9 months that the nurses have been treating the medics with disrespect.
I have written a patient safety report stating that patient care is suffering because the nurses are not willing to pick up some of thr slack when we are busy
I have spoken to the LTC in charge of the nurses, and her civilian counterpart about this, and that all I want is to be treated with some respect and dignity.
I feel like i have exausted all my avenues. What do I do? Do I go to the hospital commander and ask him for advice? Am I completely wrong in this situation, and just need to suck it up and drive on? All i am asking for is some respect and appreciations for me and my soldiers. Olease any advice would be great.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 3:22 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 03:22:48 -0500

Sometimes your going to be stuck with not so good leaders. If you push it up the chain and nothing seems to come of it I would reevaluate the situation. In the medical world it's always best to get along with medical staff because you don't want personal feelings to affect the workplace and lead to less than stellar treatment of a patient. However as it seems you've tried to approach and handle this situation as courtesy and professionalism allows you with the officer. And nothing positive came of it, I would bite the bullet and push on. You do your job to the best of your ability and set an example to those under you. Take the experience and use it to your advantage in the future of what not to become. Some people tend to think they walk on water and until they realize the ice has melted and their about to drown in their own pride. Stick with it and don't let it drag you down brother. That's the best advice I can offer you at my level.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 4:33 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 04:33:07 -0500

I'm sorry that this happened, SPC(P). I think that sometimes as lower enlisted, we get treated incredibly unfairly at times.

I think your responses and actions were appropriate given the situation. I think you should have also explained that you were orienting a new soldier. However, it seems like the CPT in this situation may have issues with lower enlisted or non-nursing personnel.

In regards to going to the hospital commander, I would say try to handle this at the lowest level possible, which it seems like you have done. What did the SFC and your leadership say when you spoke to them? Are you documenting these incidences somewhere other than the PSRs?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:08 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:08:34 -0500

No you are not wrong. It sounds like you are being treated by a person who got their commission off the street through the direct commission process. Many medical officers go through a lite course in officership. This has been a point of contention for years. As an officer she has the authority to do what she did. However, if you were doing your job, she was wrong to chastise you in this manner. There are many courses of action to take. You can run this up the chain if you really think that you were treated unfairly. At the end of the day that may not solve much. Believe me when I tell you that this is standard managerial behavior in the civilian sector. This is probably where she may have learned this behavior.

In my opinion, your best course of action is to just salute smartly and move on and be the best med specialist in your career field. It does not matter whether your are an E-1 or an O-10 there always is going to be that person who will look down ob your stature in life. Unless her behavior becomes consistently harassing and hostile, I recommend that you brush it off and do just do your job.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:11 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:11:45 -0500

I'm curious too. When you talked to all of these higher ups, especially the LTC, what did they say? I don't know what the leadership training is for nurses and other medical officers. I had a friend who was an Army eye doctor, and was a CPT. He told me that basically their indoctrination consisted of how to put on the uniform and who is supposed to salute whom. I didn't get the sense he had any idea of officer-enlisted matters. Don't get me wrong--Army nurses and doctors do magnificant work and save many soldiers. I just don't know if they really get much training in officer type stuff. But I could be all wrong. Then again every Army doctor I knew wanted to be called doctor rather than their rank.

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Jan 27 at 2016 5:16 AM

SFC Carlos Gamino — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:16:32 -0500

To avoid that incident again, pre check the blankets. Bet you it won't happen again. Stay 2 steps ahead.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:41 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 05:41:05 -0500

This is a tough position to be in.
I believe you are looking for guidance here and not sympathy or agreement.
When you are training someone and are interrupted as you were. Instead of making the issue about "Did the CPT respect my position and authority" Change the dynamic of that to "Does the CPT understand what I am doing" The way to ensure this happens without making it a tug of war between you and the nurses/doctors is to respond in a different manner. Respond by saying something like, "Yes, Ma'am I will ensure that x task is completed, I am showing SPC Smith, how we chart and track patient records" This way you have effectively communicated that 1. You were not "sitting around doing nothing and 2. that the issues of concern will be addressed 3. you have conveyed your intent.

Keep in mind that Position is not leadership, results are. Coming from the angle of using position, rank and or title as a way to assert or request your authority be recognized is not productive for you or anyone else and it hurts your relationships with those you work with.

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury Do yo have any suggestions which may help this Soldier?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 6:30 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 06:30:35 -0500

Well, sometimes PEOPLE just suck. Grin and bear it, dot lose your mind.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jan 27 at 2016 6:38 AM

PO3 David Fries — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 06:38:19 -0500

I'm sorry that I can't really offer too much advice. At my first dity station as a Corpsman, I worked side by side with Doctors and Nurse Practitioners. All but two of them treated us like we were colleagues. One was a doctor, the other was in charge of the nurse practitioners. The simplest solution there was to ignore the two. The other time I ran into that issue was when I was with the Marines. Neither my Company Commander, nor my XO liked me ( both for very different reasons). I ended up having to transfer to a different Company to get away from their abuse.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 27 at 2016 6:45 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 06:45:11 -0500

Suck it up and move on BUT document everything. Keep a log of all this type of disrespect with names, dates, places and times. This is your ace in the hole. You never know when you will need it.

You have apparently acted in an appropriate and professional manner (appropriate as we only know your side of the three sides, yours, hers and what really happened). I would have responded a but differently by stating to the effect, Yes, ma'am. We are in a system training session and will assure that is done for you.

If you consider too that the responsibility of the medical staff (MD & RN), there could be something you were not aware was happening or did happen. Like I said, document everything. If it was a one time thing, blow it off. If it is a recurring matter and doesn't cease, then go see your Top and advise him you want to see the Medical Center Commander or Director.

Good luck!

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 27 at 2016 6:50 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 06:50:00 -0500

SPC Souza I am a prior enlisted medical Soldier and currently a medical company commander. So I've been in your shoes before.
Based solely on the situation you described the officer is issuing a lawful order just not in the most optimal way possible. Unfortunately, throughout your career you will deal with less than optimal leaders. You did all you could do by respectfully bringing it to your NCO and clinical leadership. They are probably very aware that they have a less than optimal leader and may have talked to her in private, but at least are aware. However, the orders are still lawful and you need to do your absolute best to execute. As long as she doesn't cross the line and do something unlawful you've sworn an oath to execute. Take the cream off the top in every situation and try not to let this bother you. By working hard you are saying a lot about your personal character, but do your best not to fixate on this as no boss will ever be perfect.

Response by SPC Erin Mixon made Jan 27 at 2016 7:03 AM

SPC Erin Mixon — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:03:57 -0500

I hate to say it. Your not wroat all, everyone deserves respect, but I don't think anything will change. Most ppl nowadays are just a holes. :-/ Wishing you the best though.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 27 at 2016 7:10 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:10:45 -0500

Sometimes it's about approach, sometimes it's about TACT.

When you approached the Captain (Nurse). Did you try:

"Ma'am/Sir, do you have second? I know it may have looked like were screwing off, but I was actually conducting training there. We were doing XXXXX. When you implied YYYYY by saying, you not only undermined my authority you created a negative perception about you, the nursing staff, and the officer corps in general. I realize that wasn't your intent but I wanted to give you a heads up for the future. Next time, if it's not an emergency, can you call me, or the senior man aside and tell us what needs to get done and we'll take care of it immediately? We don't there to be any perception that the hospital is anything but a well oiled machine."

Based on your post it looks like you may have put your senior on the defensive, even though they were wrong. Yes, you are due respect, however HOW you approach things is just as important as what the issue is.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 7:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:55:14 -0500

Three things to think about:
1) Definition of terms.
While you may have felt "disrespected," in the military, per the UCMJ, it is simply not possible for a superior to "disrespect" a subordinate. Articles 89 and 91 of the UCMJ deal with subordinates who "disrespect" superiors, but there's no way, in legal terms, for a superior to "disrespect" a subordinate. A superior could act in a disrespectful manner towards a subordinate, but this isn't the same as "disrespecting" a subordinate, and there is nothing in the UCMJ that identifies a superior acting in a disrespectful manner towards a subordinate as an issue. I'm not saying that its ok for superiors to treat subordinates poorly, just pointing out that the Army is a hierarchical system with a legal code that demands different things from different people.
2) Leadership. While its hard to characterize someone based on one incident as a "toxic" leader, the interaction you describe above could fit one of dozens of definitions for what the Army thinks a "toxic" leader is. You can read about it at http://www.army.mil/article/157327/Toxic_leaders_decrease_Soldiers__effectiveness__experts_say/. It sounds like you've addressed this issue with your chain of command, and that's the best you can do.
3) In the discussion with the nurse you describe, you probably would have been best off to say "Yes, Ma'am" and then shut up when she pulled rank, and either re-addressed the issue later to her or to to your chain of command. I've found that it is almost always inadvisable to argue with someone who has just pulled rank on me. One, because people that outrank us OUTRANK us, and the UCMJ criminalizes disrespect towards one's superiors (and lots and lots and lots of "superiors" in the military would classify a subordinate arguing with them as "disrespect" and "insubordination") and two, because someone that has gone as far as saying "I outrank you" in an argument has already essentially passed the point of being calm and reasonable and nothing you say after this is likely to register with them as anything other than disrespect and insubordination.

Toxic leaders decrease Soldiers' effectiveness, experts say

Having a toxic boss results in a 48 percent decrease in work effort and 38 percent decrease in work quality, said Dr. George Reed.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Jan 27 at 2016 7:58 AM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:58:56 -0500

Let's see E4 doing an E6 job, Red Flag.. Are the patients truly suffering from either lack of personal or leadership ? Is it a problem with all officers, nurses and doctors ? Anyone of your peers in your area complains about the same thing ? Is it disruptive ? If it is truly a problem and patients are suffering because of it. Have You exhausted all your chain of command ?
There is another way of handling the problem if all above has been answered. It will not hurt to go talk with the fort Chaplain. He or she can probably send it in a positive direction.... Good luck..

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:11 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:11:47 -0500

SPC Souza- Unfortunately, not everyone wearing commissioned rank went through the same training to understand and appreciate the correct relationship they should foster with their people. The medical profession is it's own "animal", and its undoubtedly difficult to blend two cultures where hierarchies are so important, but so differently applied. Trust me, dust-ups occur between line and medical officers as well.

In the end, I fear that the further you push it up the officer's chain of command, the less of a result you'll see. Without adding unintentional slight to any medical personnel, my assumption is that you should expect very similar leadership from that sector as that you would see in a civil workplace...i.e. less "carrot" and more "stick".

If you continue to do your job with the utmost efficiency and professionalism, you'll eventually fall of the officer's "radar", and can concentrate on training and leading your Soldiers. One of the great things about chains of command is that they frequently change.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jan 27 at 2016 8:21 AM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:21:29 -0500

First, let me say that I generally like military doctors as people. In many cases, I preferred to hang out with them and Chaplains, rather than my fellow warfighters. That said, they can be some of the WORST leaders in the military. ("Can be", because some can be very good.)

I have been known to piss off military medical officer personnel. I have advocated, even to some very senior ones, that they never should have been given traditional officer rank. Until the early 20th Century (if I'm not wrong...the transition may go back to the mid 19th Century), naval and military doctors were given Surgeon rank, so they were officers, but had no authority over warfighters, which is the way I believe it should be.

In your case, the Nurse was no boot. She is a Captain, so she should have developed some leadership skills by now. Unlike physicians, nurses get commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants, so, as a Captain, she has a few years in. That said, you need to develop a thicker skin. As a Specialist, yourself, you have limited experience, so I applaud your asking us old guys for advice, but the truth is, you do work for her. If you are a shift leader, maybe you could delegate or set up a schedule that makes sure both that nurses' needs get met and you have ample time set aside for training. From my own experience, it is often conflicts like this that, when they get resolved, end up making for some awesome professional relationships. If this gets worse, rather than better, you might consider talking to your First Sergeant. There are no unions in the military. That said, the first shirt is supposed to be someone you can go to.

Just so you know you're not alone, know that I, too, have been disrespected by Army medical folks. On the eve of Desert Storm, I was doing Annual Training at a National Guard Base in Puerto Rico. I was a warfare-qualified Reserve Lieutenant (O-3/Captain equivalent for your Army types), and had been commissioned as a Regular Officer 6 1/2 years before and spent 4 years of active duty, first in flight training, and then as a Division Officer aboard a Spruance Class Destroyer. In other words, I was no boot.

I was sitting after lunch, outside the Canteen at this base, waiting for my ride back to my unit's camp, when this NG? Captain got out of his car and approached me, with a Master Sergeant in tow. I said something friendly, like "hi". What I got in return was "you don't salute officers?"

You have to understand, we Navy folks, at that time, wore similar BDUs (Cammies) to you Army folks, but no sparklies, so, unlike this Captain, my rank insignia didn't glint in the sun. Furthermore, instead of rank, we wore subdued miniature Navy officer crests on our Marine-style covers.

You should have seen my face. I was dumbfounded. "Not when they have the same rank as mine", I answered, so the Captain, who was a Doctor, squinted, looked closely at my collar, shook his head, and walked away...no "oops", "sorry", "my mistake", nothing. I didn't mind his mistake. What I did mind was his arrogance. For some reason, medical branch officers can be like that. If I had been a Lieutenant Commander, I would have locked him up. You just don't talk to people that way. I don't even talk to recruits that way, never have. Rank is authority to command, in order to accomplish a mission: nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean we're better than each other. We're each supposed to be doing our part to defend the Republic. Salutes recognize the authority, but they're not personal. Rank isn't personal, although it comes with certain privileges, and a whole lot more responsibilities.

If one of your officers or NCOs doesn't understand this, s/he can make you miserable. Don't let him or her. Do your best to appease this person, and go around (not over) him or her to accomplish your mission. We've all had to deal with abusive seniors. I could tell you some stories. It's no accident Surface Warfare Officers, like I am, have a reputation for eating their young.

Drive on!

Response by MSG Jamie Coleman made Jan 27 at 2016 8:23 AM

MSG Jamie Coleman — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:23:22 -0500

SPC David Souza what hospital are you assigned to ? and are you a M6 - Practical/Vocational Nurse?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:32 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:32:35 -0500

The matter as described is not serious enough to merit wasting anyone else's time -- beyond those already contacted. If immediate superiors do not believe this is a situation worth remedying - don't antagonize command further by insisting on some more formal intervention by senior command - it might well be viewed as insubordination - unworthy of medic - nurse - doctor chain of command.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:34:40 -0500

Your NCO should be all over this.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 27 at 2016 8:35 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:35:53 -0500

Kudos for you first and foremost for addressing your question here on RallyPoint. This is a very tough position to be in, for as we know there is a structure in the Army that has to be followed and the Captain wasn't wrong in what she asked you to do, it was more the less the tone you said she used toward you. You did the right thing by moving out smartly to take care of what was asked of you. For future I would be proactive and ensure everything on your floor is taken care of prior to training the other soldier. Once this is done ask the person in charge of the shift if it's ok to take a moment to train the solider on the computer system for job related training. I know that you are in a position of an E-6 that you said you were holding, does everyone on the shift know that you are? If not this is an area that the chain of command needs to make aware to others. This still doesn't negate the fact that the CPT gave you in order to do something.

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Jan 27 at 2016 8:36 AM

SCPO Joshua I — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:36:21 -0500

You're not wrong. But, at your level you simply don't have the juice to correct a Captain (regardless of commissioning source and we won't get into what I think of direct commission officers). You need to get your senior enlisted chain of command involved if this sort of thing continues. I've had to deal with this type before, sometimes you just suck it up and let them fall on their face -- because they will eventually if they're too hard-headed to listen and learn.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:36 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:36:52 -0500

SPC Souza, my best recommendation is simple..."expend energy on things you can directly affect." In short, maintain your bearing, realize that you may not be able to change the behaviors of others, and most of all maintain pride in what you do as being the best job possible. It will turn what sometimes feels to be an impossible situation into a great learning experience.

Response by MSG Anthony Makar made Jan 27 at 2016 9:12 AM

MSG Anthony Makar — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:12:44 -0500

SPC David Souza,

It unfortunate that this happened to you, I echo the same answers on the lack of tact , and Leadership skills by his CPT. Do not waste anymore emotional equity on this incident. You have done just about everything that you can do.

MAJ Jeff Jagerr hit it on the nail and offers Sage advice to take to heart. You have done all you can do. I would chalk it up to experience and use this as a teaching moment for you and others that you influence on what NOT to do when in a position of authority and responsibility. If you had not utilized your 1SG as part of your NCO support channel that might be an avenue to pursue for future incidences. You have a full career ahead of you do not let this speed bump slow you down and distract you and your goals.

Response by SFC Dave Joslin made Jan 27 at 2016 9:17 AM

SFC Dave Joslin — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:17:03 -0500

This is a battle as old as time Brother. Nurses have always treated America like this. And this is not limited to the military, there is a hierarchy in healthcare unfortunately. The best advice is don't ever allow them to cause you to lose your bearing. If they lock you up, lock up and be the epitome of professionalism! Your doing the right thing, continue to work through your senior NCO leadership. The most important thing is the example that you set for your juniors. I've eaten plenty of crow in front of my Joes, in the end folks will see who the real leader is!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 9:21 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:21:36 -0500

Honestly brother, the best advice I can give you, if you have in fact already exhausted all other venues (though you did not mention their responses; only that you spoke with them), then you may just have to sack up, suck it up and soldier on. There has always been the Officer-Enlisted gap, and that isn't going to change any time soon. And if that particular Captain is repeatedly disrespectful to you and your Joes, and refuses to be civil, even on a one-on-one basis, then there is really nothing more you can do, unless you want to rock the boat for what would be a very short remainder of your tenure

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 10:05 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:05:57 -0500

I am sorry, there isn't much you can do ... maybe just keep doing your job. We lost a lot of good reservists due to one toxic leadership ... and we never able to rebuild it back up and now is like two CO later ... and they are two good one too.

It take time to build up something good ... but it can be destroy like a blink of an eye.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jan 27 at 2016 10:14 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:14:13 -0500

As a representative of my branch here on RP, I'd like to apologize for the behavior of that CPT. That was inappropriate. Obvious lack of socialization and mentorship. Trust me in that we all don't act that way. My advice is to talk to either your NCOIC or section NCOIC. They will bring it to the attention of the nursing leadership. Otherwise, act professional, give proper courtesies and do your job to the best of your abilities. THAT will also be recognized.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 27 at 2016 10:49 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:49:35 -0500

What did the LTC and the sidekick say to you?

Response by 1SG Paul DeStout made Jan 27 at 2016 10:53 AM

1SG Paul DeStout — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:53:31 -0500

I feel you have handled the situation correctly and professionally. But there is a fine line between rank and authority. The medical field is a prime place for this. Example is a Maj who is a nurse dealing with a MD who is a Captain. Some situations the nurse has the rank and authority and other situations the MD has the authority. If I was you I would evaluate your authority as a Shift Leader. You will probably find out that you have the authority over the enlisted and that is as far as it goes. So now you have to interpret the relationship between the enlisted and the nurses. In the ER you are the support for the nurses and the doctors. You were conducting "hip pocket" training which is good but if your job was to ensure everything was stocked then the "hip pocket" training should have been conducted after your duties were completed.

BLUF: Your duties should have been completed before the training and the nurse needs to learn how to respect your position.

Response by SPC David S. made Jan 27 at 2016 10:54 AM

SPC David S. — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:54:17 -0500

Seems like you got battle-axed. Yes ma'am and drive on -

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 11:01 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:01:38 -0500

Seriously? Is this what our military has become, where we are offended by the tone in which we are asked to execute a lawful order? Not all leaders are good leaders and not everyone has people skills but because we are in the military they are the leaders just the same. Do what she asks and press on. SNCOs (at least in the AF) are charged with mentoring CGOs when appropriate so let your SNCOs handle it. She might only be a captain, but she doesn't need mentoring from an E-4.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 27 at 2016 11:37 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:37:04 -0500

LTC Paul Labrador hits the nail on the head with “needs additional leadership mentoring”. MAJ Jeff Jager posted a short article on toxic leadership and a 48% decrease is huge.
There is a fine line between toxic and less than optimal. All of us have done things that were less than optimal because we are all human. However, hopefully we learned from so that we can continue to develop as leaders. The best leaders cannot be everywhere all time. Therefore, subordinate leaders at all levels are out there making decisions and taking care of people. It is presumed that they have a good heart and are making an honest effort. In this example the order is lawful and the chain of command would support that it is indeed lawful, but because they care they would take the time to mentor the subordinate leader into how to be more effective for the benefit off all.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 27 at 2016 11:44 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:44:39 -0500

Write down a log: Dates times places, what was said, and witnesses. That is a smoking gun. You would be foolish not to take this advice.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:13:51 -0500

I'll have to agree here, no you're not wrong and yes you should start running it up the chain until the realize the problems

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:28:34 -0500

You have handled it well so far.
You executed the order immediately and without question.
You took the officer aside and voiced your concerns.
You asked your supervisor and RP how you could handle it differently or better.
So far, you are batting 1.000.
The next step is the hard one: Let it go.
Be a professional, doing your job like the hard-working professional you are.
Take the extra step of notifying those around you that you intend to do some training, and ask if there is anything they need done before you do. This will head off a lot at the pass.

My guess is that the Nurse was having a bad day, perceived you to be farting off, and took an unnecessary tone with you. You can't win them all. But professionals get the benefit of the doubt when it looks as though they are "doing nothing".

You sound like you are well on your way, SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member. I wish I had more Soldiers just like you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:40:56 -0500

Unfortunately there are a lot of officers like this. All you really can do is Roger up and drive on. It sucks but it's something we all have to deal with whether it's in the Army or in the civilian world. There will always be people telling you what to who could be telling you what to do in a more polite way.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Jan 27 at 2016 12:41 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:41:20 -0500

You are not wrong. You did the right thing by waiting and making your position clear one-on-one privately. But, there are a$$-hats everywhere, and you have one you'll have to continue to work with. So, stay professional, try to stay "ahead of the game" by learning her pet peeves and keeping those things done. I would not go the to hospital commander. She might still stay an a$$-hat, or she might begin to give you respect. I've had many great bosses and a couple bad ones. The really bad ones eventually get fired or promoted. ;) Best wishes to you. Check out Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS 's post. Stay professional.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jan 27 at 2016 12:43 PM

SFC Joseph Weber — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:43:28 -0500

ETS

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jan 27 at 2016 1:12 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:12:13 -0500

I would say buck up, do your job, and most importantly do what you are told. Next time you're on shift with her, make sure the blanket warmers are full and that there is nothing else needing done. You may even want to ask her if you missed anything. Other than that, take solace in the fact that you're in the Army and sooner or latter one of you will PCS out of the others hair.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jan 27 at 2016 1:21 PM

SGT William Howell — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:21:34 -0500

Going to go with, "Suck it up butter cup!" We all have had nasty people that have been put in charge of us. It is how the Army works. Specialist or Staff it is all the same, she played the O card and she won. Just because she didn't say, "Pretty Please." and you got butt hurt don't mean she was wrong.

Response by CPT Gary Jugenheimer made Jan 27 at 2016 1:46 PM

CPT Gary Jugenheimer — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:46:37 -0500

I do not feel that "Officer" has anything to do with this situation SPC Souza...this is a person to person issue and obviously this nurse has "other issues" and really does not care about the relationships between her and those around her....she is "poison" and you will have to deal with the situation as it looks like those above do not want to get involved....maybe they have recognized her for what she is...she is probably under a lot of pressure and takes flack from "Officer Doctors" that she works with...there might be some aloofness in the relationships of Doctors to nurses in the organization contributing to the overall environment....all you can do is to avoid questioning her symbolic authority as she seems to resort to this as a solution....treat her as a nurse and give her the respect that that position affords (of course you must recognize rank but I am sure you know how to handle this) and work together as much as possible....time will take care of this issue but do not develop a chasm between you and possibly other nurses that support her....hope this helps!

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 27 at 2016 2:01 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:01:27 -0500

Trust me, you could have many more opportunities to hear even more offensive things on a daily basis, particularly in other areas of the Army-anyone from combat arms can testify. But based on what you described, I'd say that it was--if not "disrespectful", on the nurse's part--certainly not highly professional. Rude perhaps, but sometimes that's the nature of orders given. Your reply seems reasonable and respectful though. You've said your piece, but make damn sure this a battle really worth fighting...for your sake.

Until and unless the working conditions are so intolerable or specific actions so egregious, honestly, I'd let it go. You will find many tactless, disrespectful or outright toxic people in the Army, and you can spend all your time and energy fighting for your "respect", that it's a detriment to you. Besides, orders need to be followed. But if it is that bad, then keep working the chain-of-command, and only if you are rebuffed and get nowhere, then as a last resort use command's open door policy. Do not skip the Chain just to get a faster response.

Either way, good luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 2:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:30:36 -0500

Say yes sir/ma'am and after wards speak to your senior leadership through your chain of command.

Response by CPL Brendan Hayes made Jan 27 at 2016 2:44 PM

CPL Brendan Hayes — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:44:20 -0500

She was well within her rights, and her role, to speak to you as such. It was not polite or kind, but it was well within regulation. If that is the most disrespected you've felt during your service, you are a lucky troop. All you can do is suck it up and drive on.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 27 at 2016 4:13 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:13:14 -0500

I will answer you from experience as a prior service medic, what you are describing is the political and pecking order of hospital life, best to leave it alone, because no one will support you. Chill and kill them with kindness and with time they will leave you alone.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 4:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:26:42 -0500

Continue up the chain if nothing happens from the top, as the infantry do "Embrace the Suck" sorry man. I do the work of a janitor or a grounds keeper more than my job. Someone will notice your good work eventually. If they're assholes you only have to do the bare minimum for them as well.

Response by MSG Jamie Coleman made Jan 27 at 2016 4:28 PM

MSG Jamie Coleman — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:28:37 -0500

This Soldier was set up for failure the moment that he was assigned to a position that he is not qualified to hold. SPC David Souza stated that he has been slotted in a E-6 / Shift Leader Position, this is a Rated position and should be filled by a SSG or higher or at the least a SGT. His inexperience can be noted in the fact that he choose to train a Soldier on the PC rather than ensuring that patient care was complete, then on top of that he has jumped all around the COC concerning his perceived notion that the officers have been treating the medics with disrespect, Then to top it off he went and filed a patient safety report, that more than likely had to be briefed to the Hospital Commander during morning report, and then followed up by the department head. The Soldier was totally out of line for confronting a CPT and telling her how to address him and the other Soldiers. Would we expect him to do this in War? Hell no, then we shouldn’t give him pats on the back for doing it this time.

Response by MSG Toney Reese made Jan 27 at 2016 4:48 PM

MSG Toney Reese — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:48:46 -0500

I understand your problem. I was a medic as well. I worked on many wards and had a pretty good relationship with the RN's I was 91C and we did the same work as they. However as I progressed in rank the relationship changed. I became a Wardmaster when I was a Specialist 6 and took on the responsibility of doing all the work that is required of being NCOIC/Soldier I was often given patients by the HD Nurse. I was overworked and under appreciated. All the nurse had to do was to take care of their patients and then go home. I would have meetings with the Hospital CMS or Dept.of Nursing CMS.Order supplies, time cards pick up broken equipment at medical maintenance. Order Laundry and check the ward for any problems with it's daily functionThen I would have to report to the company for SQT training, PT or Duty NCO. I put up with the disrespect and Nurses not understanding what a shift Leader or Wardmaster have to do above and beyond the taking care of patients. Your problem appears to be you have a Cpt who has no idea of what your responsibilities are as a Shit Leader. You did the right thing by taking her aside and tried to explain your position. It looks to me that she doesn't have much respect for enlisted and you would only make your life worse if you when over her head to her Head Nurse of the Dept. What you should do it take it to the Chief Wardmaster where he can address the problem on that particular ward in the morning meetings. Whatever you do, not confront the CPT. again because you will lose and you will have hell to pay on that floor. If you can not get the respect for your position. Then respectively ask you NCOIC or CWM to be moved to another ward or floor where you would be appreciated. I went from E-4 to E-8 and retired as assit.Chief Ward Master. So I know your problem. As a Senior NCO, I had to deal with 04-06 on a daily basis many of them I had worked with them as SPC4 and as 1stLT. so it was a lot easier at that level.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Jan 27 at 2016 5:06 PM

SPC Jeffrey Reese — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:06:32 -0500

I found that almost every time an individual like this Nurse pops up they end up hanging them self and need help from the person they have mistreated in some form or another. Whether it be information or something out side of duty something that their rank can't help them with. Just so happens the times this occurred with my superiors they weren't as versed as they thought they were with regulations and it bit them in the end. Hence it is also to your advantage to be well versed in as many Regulations as you can.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:32 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:32:43 -0500

calm down and realize that there are many different personalities in the military. Just do your job to the best of your ability and do not worry about the other stuff. In my civilian career, I worked on the Space Shuttle program. I had a manager that asked for the number of assembly language programs that were being used. I told him and he did not believe me, so I showed him a print out with the proof. That made him mad, so he made me deliver to him a daily written activity report. I went and talked to his boss, who told me that he had worked with my manager in New Mexico, and they were friends, so tough. I was in the right, and angry, but I loved my job, so I continued to do the best job I could. A month later, my manager quit and went back to New York, because he did not like the way things were done in Houston. His manager left soon after.

Response by CH (MAJ) Dale Forrester made Jan 27 at 2016 5:39 PM

CH (MAJ) Dale Forrester — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:39:28 -0500

In my enlisted days I was submarine sailor. We had a new Lieutenant (Junior Grade) who had been junior enlisted, gone to the Naval Academy, and had been assigned to us after graduating from nuclear power school in order to get some sea time and his dolphins before going on the one of the Nucs. He was so full of himself his eyes were brown. Well, we were in port in San Juan, PR, and he was officer of the watch. Some of the crew who had the in-port watch were topside to get some sun when he began berating them for being topside out of uniform.
He was not a very good officer, but the Navy had spent a lot of money on his education and it would have been a shame to waste all that money by sending him ashore. The Chief of the Boat (Army equiv: CSM) and the Captain had a long talk about this junior officer's effect on crew morale. A few days later we went back out to sea. He was on the bridge with the lookouts and we were preparing to dive. The order was given, "Lookouts below!" The scrambled down the ladder into the control room and the quartermaster closed and dogged the hatch. The vents were opened and the boat began to submerge with the LT(jg) still on the bridge. The water rose to about his knees before the skipper gave the order to blow the tanks and surface. He then took the young officer into the wardroom and explained to him that his very life depended on the skill of the crew. He was a changed man. He did not become an outstanding officer in the time he sailed with us, be he became a much better one.
You have talked to all the right people. Let it rest and do your job to the best of your ability. She will either become a true professional or she will be identified and (if the hospital leadership does its duty) find herself passed over for Major and returned to the civilian world.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:45:51 -0500

I have a few comments on your situation.

1. First off, I'm curious as to what your expectations of respect are? It sounds like the Nurse in question was rude. While it may ruffle your feathers, ultimately there are no regulations dictating the treatment of subordinates. She may have been having a bad day or she may be simply a poor leader. Personally, I practice "escalation of force" when I need something done. If I'm in your face it's because you've already dropped the ball. It's been my experience after nearly 10 years in uniform you get much better results when subordinates want to execute your orders versus only completing them out of obligation. Treating your people well always pays off. The nurse in question may have to learn that the hard way.

2. Chances are your Senior Leaders are already well aware of this individual's potential shortcomings. As her subordinate, you're not going to have visibility of that nurse being mentored, counseled, or punished. While her behavior may not have changed, I doubt nothing has happened since your complaints. It's the same reason I don't dress down one of my squad leaders in front of his troops. If I show that I don't have faith in their leader, how can I expect them to?

3. With that said, your willingness to go to the Hospital Commander over this frankly concerns me. As a young Cadet I had a CPT treat me extremely poorly without any justification. I had never even met the guy before. My best guess is he thought poorly of ROTC in general. I had just finished Annual Training with my tank company and had received a Battalion Coin for managing the CO TOC during gunnery. After feeling good about a successful AT it was a huge kick in the groin. I wouldn't have dreamed of going to my Battalion Commander, let alone a Colonel, and complaining about his behavior. I said "roger Sir" and drove on. You've worked through your NCO support channel and made your concerns heard. It's time to move out and draw fire.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jan 27 at 2016 5:51 PM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:51:20 -0500

Too bad you are not Security Police, my response would have been, Sir,Mamma, don't confuse your rank with my authority, that is if they were not in my chain of command. I had several officers think they could interfere in a priority a resource area, or at an entry point. I had several that I had the joy of putting on the ground tarmac in the hot blazing sun in the summer in New Mexico and on Guam. Two I actually had to use force on when they failed to heed challenge. Both had to answer for causing a helping hand. Not to mention when they were standing at attention for my Comander, and the base Comander when they got there. Oh how I miss those fun times. Who rahh!!! Thanks for the laughs. But hey in all seriousness, if an officer in my chain of command approached me, I always snapped two, gave salute, and awaited there departure or instructions. I think you got off easy. I never would have questioned the officers over me, for that matter, not even an NCO. Respect is earned not when you are a lower rank. I realize this is not the new military. I was in 20 years ago.

Response by SPC Chris Rozzi made Jan 27 at 2016 5:55 PM

SPC Chris Rozzi — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:55:12 -0500

Well maybe she wants to throw it in a circle for you but, your just a specialist so she takes her frustration out on you the only way she can. She wants to make it jump like a hurdle but,you are not there yet maybe you should give her the old doc inspection finger in the butthole trick you would be surprised what you find images of you. But joking aside why even care what she says you got to tough it out there's plenty of douche bags and cunts in the military you just got to let the bullshit slide in surprised you said anything at all thinking about it why did you? Your in the military.

Response by Cpl Joshua Malinowski made Jan 27 at 2016 5:55 PM

Cpl Joshua Malinowski — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:55:47 -0500

Suck it up and move on. If you feel like a tool because she is constantly ordering you around then take the initiative and find things that need fixing before she finds them. Take the new guy with you and show him how to a few things, then do it with him, then make sure he can do it by himself. As the shift leader (idk how many you have working for you and what the workload is like so i'm assuming 4-6 service members), you should be ensuring that your shift members are doing their job, and that they are doing it right. And you should also be always ready to pick up the slack whenever things get heavy. I remember the medical office on our base always had a Thursday afternoon closed for training, and in some MOS's that may be the only time to get training done. Of course, emergencies and the like are gonna happen, and if you don't have a training day then they are gonna have to either be shadowed or do the shadowing. I'm only talking about management and leadership because it sounds like (to me) something isn't being handled on your end of things. At the end of the day you have to be able to manage not only the task you've been assigned, but also delegate and manage tasks to your subordinates within the time you have. Some people call that "time management" but you can't manage time, only what you do in the time you have.

I wouldn't expect a Cpl to take out the trash at the end of the day when the boot private is just sitting on his ass wondering what to do after work. Not because I think taking out the trash is below the Cpl but because the Cpl should be ensuring his team is getting everything for the next day.

However I will say it is a completely different story if the nurses are LITERALLY just smokin' and jokin' 24/7 while ordering yall to bust your ass. I'd call that toxic but I highly doubt that's the case. So at the end of the day you are an E-4 in an E-6 position, that makes you a big tuna. And when the sharks have a problem they go after the big tuna.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 7:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:01:55 -0500

To me you did the right thing. Both through the military avenue and the moral avenue. You utilized your chain of command and didn't call her out in front of everyone. However you held your ground. Sometimes rank just has to go out the window and you had the tenacity to make that happen. I'm not saying it should always be like that, it should be a very rare occasion that you ignore the rank, but there'll be times where you just have to say it how it is. I've had "ranks off" talks with E5's and E6's. Someone who isn't afraid to challenge a higher ranking person on something that is clearly illogical, disrespectful, etc, is what will motivate soldiers to work for that person. They'll know you care cause your risking a lot that could come down on you when that higher ranking person gets mad cause you called them out on something. Just be respectful always, as much as you can until It gets to the point where rank has to go to the side.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 7:33 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:33:07 -0500

She sucks as an officer, and will most likely flounder in her career. It also seems like there's a failure of leadership there. You ran it up the chain, but you risk harming you career by pushing it further. Just keep busting your butt, be visible doing the best job you can, and FIDO.

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Jan 27 at 2016 7:49 PM

SFC Carlos Gamino — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:49:50 -0500

Familiarize yourself with the NCO creed, fourth paragraph in particular. Know yoyr duties and responsibilities. You said you were in charge, delegate and do your PCI/PCC, ido they apply in your MOS to help you accomplish your job or tasks? P.S. Find some thick skin. Have a Dr. Prescribe some to you. Good luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 20:11:41 -0500

The bottom line is that you in your position as a Specialist (or enlisted period) cannot order the Captain what to do or not do. If you are concerned that the performance of the facility is suffering due to a failure of the nurses to do their job, then go to your SFC. If you believe this is an urgent health and safety issue and your SFC is not solving the problem, then go to the hospital CSM by appointment with the SFC's knowledge. It is inadvisable to go to the hospital commander.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 20:29:26 -0500

If you joined the military for respect and appreciation you're in the wrong business.

Response by PFC Billy Feldmeier made Jan 27 at 2016 9:25 PM

PFC Billy Feldmeier — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 21:25:59 -0500

Sounds like someone is mad she's not getting any anywhere from anyone

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Jan 27 at 2016 10:36 PM

PVT Andrew Burd — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 22:36:06 -0500

only reason you should have thoughts on this is being interrupted while doing something with accusations about doing nothing.

as far as the rest of it goes... get over it. you got stuck with Captain Ballbuster. welcome to the Army.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 27 at 2016 10:44 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 22:44:29 -0500

Amazing question, considering the attitude of Commissioned Officers in years gone by. WTH hasn't been dissed by an O. Suck it up buttercup and get on with your short term or long career time. It gets worse when you have to work in the civilian world. Unbelievable.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Jan 28 at 2016 12:42 AM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:42:08 -0500

I worked in an ER and as shift leader I had the same problems. Some officers will work with you but some.... at one point to it was so bad that my SFC and the department OIC pulled all medics off the floor for 3 days. That helped change things for a short time but it eventually went back. If I had a good charge nurse I could talk to them about it as well. They would remind the nurses that in that environment we didn't work FOR them but WITH them. The best advice I can give is to keep doing what you're doing. Stay respectful and use your chain of command.

Response by SSG Michael Patton made Jan 28 at 2016 12:50 AM

SSG Michael Patton — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:50:33 -0500

Just keep in mind, most duty assignments will end and you will move on, and likely never have to encounter her again. And, is it possible you might have an over-inflated ego about being an E4 in an E6 slot? Are you feeling more important than you really are in the grand scheme of overall operations?

Response by SFC Donald Neal made Jan 28 at 2016 1:18 AM

SFC Donald Neal — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:18:54 -0500

There are discreet ways to work the issue through your NCO support channel, but the reality is you are on the short end of the dynamic and need to be careful in doing what you're ordered to do. You may have tried to explain you were walking the new troop through the chart system on the computer, whether or not the nurse would have accepted it is up to them.

The number one lesson here is, what not to become. You're always learning something everyday and on this day you learned what not to do.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 1:32 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:32:24 -0500

its the new army u should fucking reminde her that she respects the postion not the rank

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 1:33 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:33:19 -0500

and then tell her supervisor or have her teach the new soldier since she wont let u do your job

Response by PFC Bradley Campbell made Jan 28 at 2016 2:50 AM

PFC Bradley Campbell — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 02:50:32 -0500

you have to beat these assholes at their own game. get up early,stay late be 5 steps ahead of their bullshit at all times. you know it and i know it, these assholes always act like we exist to be serving them. whatever we are doing no matter how important, we have to stop and go take care of their dumbasses. when you have some idle time make sure all teh must have tasks are done before any side training for new people. i wouldnt take it higher, they will just get on your ass for bothering them with the problem. do your job and any delegation as needed and make sure all i's are dotted and all t's are crossed.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 3:09 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 03:09:19 -0500

That really doesn't seem very bad to me at all; I get worse comments from senior officers regularly, and in the last ten years this is the best command I've seen. You may be suffering from a case of the over-sensitives. Just do your job and perhaps explain that you weren't just wasting time, but being productive. This came across as just being soft and such. Someone was rude to you? It happens; deal with it. I don't see how making a big deal of it is going to make life better for you. Just keep doing a good job and laugh off the idiots who think they're special.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 4:49 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 04:49:47 -0500

First I would like to thank everyone that has taken the time to answer my question. I am able to see this situation from many differant angles now. To be completely honest, as soon as I finished my post I was scrambling to find a way to delete it. In no way was I trying to put anyone on blast, and thankfully, I did not use any names or locations, nor did I realize how large this community was. Unfortunately my name was attached to this topic. I do hope that no one tries to connect the dots, and figure out where this is happening, I simply just wanted some advice from my seniors, piers, and subordinates. Given the issue at hand, I agree that nothing wrong was done here, and that I should use this experience as a tool and to grow from it. Im not going to run up my chain of command, or bother anyone else with this situation. I signed on the dotted line, and I swore an Oath to execute the orders that I have been given. As a future NCO I realize that no matter how I personally feel about this situation, my duties are to accomplish the mission. Even if the mission is so mundane such as stocking blankets, it is my responsibilities to ensure that it happens. Im going to adjust fire, and continue the mission. Thank you again for taking the time to mentor me in this situation.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 10:59 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:59:30 -0500

right or wrong, to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in the regs that states an officer must treat an enlisted with respect. If I had a dollar for every time I was "disrespected" by an officer (or SNCO) when I was enlisted or have been disrespected by a higher ranking officer since I have been commissioned, I could retire and move to Fiji.....

My question is: would you have been as bothered by it if the person had been a SGM?

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jan 28 at 2016 2:40 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:40:30 -0500

USE YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND AND REPORT IT.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 2:50 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:50:07 -0500

This is what I hate: the a$$-holes on this forum telling you to "suck it up", "here's a straw", blah blah and just do your job. This is what happens when you listen to idiots like some of the posters above: you encourage her ideals of what "good Leadership is" by just doing your job and showing her that it's ok. It's not ok. Further down the line those same "Good leadership" traits that she is carrying will potentially influence her decisions and thus affect other personnel such as subordinates, peers, and chain of command. Those decisions of hers may come at a very high cost, maybe even lives of those she could be in charge of for example in a combat environment. If, and when you get the opportunity to become a senior enlisted (E-7-E-9), you will learn hopefully before that time that it is OUR responsibility to train and mentor those junior officers to help them become better leaders. For that to happen however, you will have to know the difference between good and bad leadership and take the good onboard, then pass it on. Learn from that situation. What you did was right, although I have to say a little more tact and better approach would have had that JO listen to you more. Don't listen to "suck it up" comments, unless you want to become a half a$$ leader and encourage bad leadership in your chain of command. Both YOU and HER owe it to the service.

"Don't be somebody, do something."
John Boyd

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Jan 28 at 2016 4:00 PM

CPO Randy Francis — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:00:35 -0500

Seriously? Is this the US military or the Girl Scouts? You don't have to like an officer just follow their legal orders. If you don't like the tone then maybe the private sector is where you need to be. Is this what the US military has finally become - E-4s whining online about what orders officers give them and the way they are given? What confounds me are the responses from some of the other snowflake millennials (including officers) on here. The response you're looking for towards the Captain is "Yes Ma'am" or if you really want to exhibit some bassassery - "Roger that".

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 28 at 2016 11:45 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 23:45:12 -0500

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member Excellent question, and I see as a late comer, you have gotten some excellent advice. I would just offer three comments, that were likely already said.

1. You can only control certain things... so control what you can, and don't worry about what you can't control.

2. Approach that CPT/Nurse privately, respectfully, and tell them the rest of the story and leave it at that.

3. I am not a medical corps Soldiers, but I have been around many... and most of the officers have little, if any, military leadership training or experience... They are technical experts and specialists... so, leadership (dealing with people) is really often not part of their training... It is a strange sector of the Army (from my vantage point), as are the other technical specialist branches. Just my outsider perspective.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 4:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 04:36:45 -0500

There is a lot of good advice in this thread already. But I would like to add a couple of things on top of what they have said.
Like you, I was a SPC that worked in a hospital. During my time there I found myself acting in an E-6/E-7 slot for several months. You are expected to fill the duties of an NCO, but the first thing your superiors will always see is the actual rank pinned on your chest. Gain their respect, they eventually stop seeing your rank and pay attention to your name when it is mentioned.
Demanding you be treated with the respect of your slot never sits well with a soldier that is a higher rank than you. This is because even though you fill the slot of an E-6/E-7, you are not an E-6/E-7. You are simply the most qualified body they have on hand to fill that slot.
When in this position you have two options: 1) You can show them they chose a responsible and dependable individual to fill the slot. 2) You can show them they chose an individual who is very difficult to work with and whines constantly.
The situation you are in is not simply a military thing. You will encounter this everywhere you go whether in the civilian or military world. Whenever you encounter a superior who says something you feel is disrespectful or irks you, sometimes you just have to brush it off. They aren't necessarily being disrespectful. They're just in a high position and see an issue they feel needs to be resolved NOW before a person in an even higher position spots it. They may not know/care what you are doing at that moment. They just want the issue they saw resolved. A simple, "Yes, Ma'am. We will take care of that. In a moment," can do wonders for a situation like that because you have acknowledged the superior's concern and informed them that you will resolve the issue.
If you encounter a superior who is truly a despicable and disrespectable individual, again, shrug off anything they say that irks you (within reason of course). If they find issues in the workplace, do your best to resolve and make certain it doesn’t happen again. You may have to work harder, but it eventually makes your work appear flawless. And people do take notice of that, especially in an environment like a hospital.
If that despicable superior continues to be disrespectable, people take notice of that as well. Superiors who continue to belittle their subordinates, especially when their work appears flawless, don’t tend to stay in their positions long.
The Army’s motto is, “Embrace the suck!” I fucking hate that motto with a passion. I prefer, “Find a way to make it better!” You have already tried several methods of dealing with the situation to no avail. Try something completely different. Make your work flawless. Show them you are a golden child. Give them absolutely nothing to complain about.
You are a junior enlisted in an NCO position. This should be your time to shine.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 29 at 2016 8:44 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:44:11 -0500

Write down all the incidents and talk to the Hospital CSM.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 9:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 09:55:15 -0500

Sadly, as a medic of 12 years and my share of med officers, I feel your pain. Med corps is a funny breed where the military courtesy seems to sometimes to evaporate. Most of the time it's in a more or less positive effect: less up tight, just here to do the job and keeps troops up, cares little for posturing and protocol. But every so often I have had that officer that thinks their absurdly long collegiate career means they are a divine entity in the Army and thus can speak to the enlisted like they are dogs. And the funny thing about Medical Corps compared to most of the rest of the Army, even all the Enlisted and NCO'S have considerable education and skill training, most of us come from EMT, Paramedic, Fire Rescue and nursing schools, where it's not as common in the other branches to have such experience in the enlisted corps.

You are not wrong and to stand your ground and address your senior NCO on the issue is the correct move. The sad fact is that in other areas of the Army, such disrespect from a leader would result in lack of response from the subordinates, sluggish to snap to and take direction from a toxic leader. Med corps can't really share that luxury because our time is almost at the expense of a soldiers health. Stick to your guns, maintain your bearing. If a nurse is giving you and yours shit, then request from your NCO to address the senior medical professional ie the doctor in charge. In my experience, such officers only take heed of words from collegues and higher officers. Keep calm and carry on Medic.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 29 at 2016 10:15 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:15:44 -0500

How did you handle this situation after all the good advice you received herein? Kind of a touch situation to say the least.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 29 at 2016 10:40 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:40:44 -0500

WTH ever happened to "Praise in public, reprimand in private"? That has been the gold standard for eons.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jan 29 at 2016 1:54 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:54:27 -0500

The fact that you used the phrase "pulled her aside" tells me you have an overinflated opinion of your own authority. She is a Captain, you are her subordinate. It is not possible for her to disrespect (used incorrectly as an action verb) you. She may Have acted like an asshole. MOst likely she did. But that's the job sweet pea. SUCK IT UP!!
Perhaps you would be better suited for civilian life.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 29 at 2016 6:32 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:32:39 -0500

You need to write that shit down.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 5:37 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 05:37:10 -0500

Sorry to hear about this! I'm a prior enlisted medic and I "feel your pain!" Everyone's position deserves respect and I commend you for talking with the Captain about your concerns. It's disheartening to see that she responded with "...I'm a Captain" remark. All I can recommend is that you inform your supervisor and document your concerns.

Response by SSG Darren Cockerham made Jan 30 at 2016 10:17 AM

SSG Darren Cockerham — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 10:17:55 -0500

Are you kidding me? This pansy ass culture that has taken over the military is what's going to bring this nation to its knees. What are you going to do when you're in Kubal at a forward aid station, and she yells get the fuck down when she sees that camel jockey getting ready to kill you. I'll tell you, come home in a pine box. Gen Patton is rolling over in his grave seeing what a bunch of pansy ass little bitches have taken over. She's the Capt you're the Spc, do what you're told, when you're told, how you're told. I'm sure as little douche bag like you will file a complaint with RP.

Response by CCMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 11:53 AM

CCMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 11:53:50 -0500

Upfront: If an officer or person of authority uses his or her rank as sole basis of getting someone to perform a task, then they have failed as a leader.

What is curious to me, is that these are medical professionals, not line officers. They are still officers and deserve respect, but are officers by nature of their occupation/profession vice military training.

As a Chief, I have to look at both side of this. The Captain deserves as much of the benefit of the doubt as you do. So, the only part that you can control is your own actions. Understand that this is part of growing into an NCO. We've all worked for challenging authority figures. I've had some real winners. Either way, you have to think of this as a long term project and ask yourself what you are bringing to the table.

This Captain sees you from her viewpoint. She has a right to that...right or wrong. You don't have to prove her wrong, you just have to make sure that you keep up your end of the bargain. For example, you could communicate to this nurse that you are training someone one a computer task so they don't see you as surfing Facebook, or Rallypoint. That's just one example.

Another thing to think about...there is a fine line between professionally documenting an issue and laundry listing an issue. Your job should be to make sure everyone is moving forward.

Response by CPO Curtiss Hill made Jan 30 at 2016 1:06 PM

CPO Curtiss Hill — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 13:06:05 -0500

There have been enough of the “Suck it up, buttercup” comments on this forum. That doesn’t help the situation. What you are experiencing is a failure of leadership; the one question that hasn’t been addressed is “Why is an E-4 filling an E6/E7 billet?” Is there a shortage of Army Staff Sergeants and Sergeant First Classes medical personnel or does the position suck so bad that they find other places to go? Either way, you are in a bad position. The best thing you can do is document the incident, compare notes with other soldiers. If they are experiencing the same thing, and have the courage to do something about it, file an EEO complaint. I guarantee you the issue will get resolved…fast.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 1:33 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 13:33:23 -0500

I have two points of view on this, one, as a leader, and two, one who's been disrespected by an officer.
I keep a package of straws in my ruck for occasions such as this, cuz everyone needs to suck it up every once in a while. You need to start developing a thick skin. You're a medic, for crying out loud. You getting your feelings hurt in this situation is going to have stupendous consequences if you ever see combat and have to perform while in a firefight, when there's blood, bullets, and guts flying everywhere. I don't think anyone's really going to care what how they talk to you as long as you're doing your job...and be prepared to get called a lot of names to help get you used to it if you keep this attitude up. So you're a non-rate holding a position normally given to a NCO, yet no one appointed you to CPL, and a CPT gave you an order and you're crying? Seriously? Get over yourself, Specialist.
Here's the second thing. I've been the guy who's told by an officer to "pick that up" when he drops a folder intentionally in front of me. I know you feel slighted, and you're wondering what the best approach is...and it's a surgical one. Here's some knowledge for your back pocket: AR 600-100 requires every Army leader to treat subordinates with dignity, respect, fairness, and consistency. AR 600-20 requires those in authority to exercise courtesy towards subordinates. Failing to do so is in violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 2:12 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:12:16 -0500

Sounds like you have a bad case of the military...

Response by LCpl Terrance Brown made Jan 30 at 2016 3:34 PM

LCpl Terrance Brown — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:34:39 -0500

Just shut the fuck up and do what you are told! No one gives a shit about your feelings or fairness! The military is a dictatorship based on merit!

Response by CW3 Rick May made Jan 31 at 2016 5:21 AM

CW3 Rick May — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 05:21:09 -0500

This is what the senior enlisted advisor is for in the unit, e.g., 1SG or CSM. Go to the 1SG and ask him/her for advice. State your complaint (professionally, don't sound like you're whining - and I'm not saying you are by any means). The 1SG should give some experienced advice and may or may not speak with the nurse. Hopefully he/she will speak with the nurse and give your side of the story. Sometimes people are in bad moods and these kinds of situations pop-up. At any rate, the 1SG should help and give advice.

Response by Sgt Rick Orzechowski made Jan 31 at 2016 7:58 AM

Sgt Rick Orzechowski — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:58:18 -0500

Be proactive, check to see all carts are full and blanket warmers are full, then sit down and show the new recruit the computer system. You do not have to respect the person but you must respect the rank. It is not your place as an enlisted man to try to speak to an officer about the way they speak to you. Do as instructed. This is an example of why the military is becoming soft. Suck it up buttercup and do your job. I damn sure would never approach an officer and tell them they need to talk to you better just as I never questioned my sergeants when they told me to do something. I just jumped up and did it.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 6:25 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:25:42 -0500

"you realize I am a captain and you are a specialist".. This was the moment that she showed that she was a manager not a leader.

My beloved mentor told me a long time ago that if one needs to verbally indicate your/their rank, there is already something wildly amiss. Respect goes both ways and it is NEVER earned by pointing at your sleeve/lapel.

I agree wholeheartedly with Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS. Tact is an absolutely critical tool required for anyone especially the profession of arms where rank is factored and unfortunately ego plays a role sometimes.

I have a feeling that the Captain will do this one too many times and find herself standing high in front of the old man's desk herself.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 6:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:28:31 -0500

Suck it up and soldier on.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 7:36 PM

AB Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:36:20 -0500

Tell her to fuck off and take the Art 15.

Response by CPT Adam Ragsdale made Jan 31 at 2016 7:57 PM

CPT Adam Ragsdale — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:57:35 -0500

Just respect the chain of command. Your immediate up chain is your boss, not the idiot that dressed you down. Our leadership system is based on thousands of years of proven technique. Next time just say yessir/ma'am and go through you'd chain of command. Some in company/staff grade "leadership" positions think they are untouchables. Believe me, they can be touched. Regardless, in a military code of conduct, you should absolutely lock your heels next time. After you respect the system in front of your soldiers, you can teach them the lesson you learned. Chaos does not work in the fm defense of s nation. You have the God given right to bitch as a soldier. Leaders though, don't bitch. They move out and draw fire.

Response by SGT Marvin Luciano made Feb 1 at 2016 11:16 AM

SGT Marvin Luciano — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 11:16:23 -0500

Remember all soldiers respect the RANK, the person wearing it must earn the respect through his/her behavior, conduct and professionalism. Even though we are all aware of the chain of command and the famous RHIP, officers should realize that by treating us enlisted personnel with respect, by no means is this a sign of weakness or lose of authority. On the contrary I personally respect more and am more devoted to a leader who has military discipline as well as humanitarian qualities

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 2:32 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 14:32:16 -0500

If after talking to your line leader, and the OIC of the nurses, and STILL nothing gets done, (this happened to me word for word REPEATEDLY whilst stationed many places in the Army) then you MUST go to the hospital commander...if nothing gets done, then you go FARTHER up...I did and guess what, I got transferred. Sometimes people see rank, and they think (or not think) 'hey, I'm a captain and he/she is a specialist...and *hit really does roll downhill.....

Response by CW4 Jimmy Gomez made Feb 2 at 2016 8:28 AM

CW4 Jimmy Gomez — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 08:28:19 -0500

I think you need to grow a little backbone.
No one is shooting at you while you're at work. When your shift ends, you're going home to your own bed so just brush it off. Add this little gem of a life lesson to your kitbag.

We all Learn from everyone that we come into contact with on a daily basis. Some are good lessons, things we want to emulate. I think you should thank this CPT for her example on WHAT NOT TO DO ....how to definitely NOT TREAT OTHERS!

Remember when you wrestle a pig, the pig likes it and you just end up dirty. So brush it off and drive on. You have to grow thicker skin than that if you want to have success in life. This CPT has NO decorum and zero "bedside manners". Focus on the half full glass, not what you don't have or what you think people owe you.

Remember this lesson and if you're ever in a similar leadership role as a CPT in a medical unit, put this lesson into practice. Be the humble, respectful and influential leader that everyone else wants to emulate.
This is just a small preview of what's ahead in life, whether in the military (especially in an Infantry unit) or in civilian life (if you're not meeting a quota), this will continue to happen, so learn from it and grow. Be the example for your soldiers and your peers, especially the soldier that was with you when this happened. Show that soldier that even in the face of stupidity, you must remain calm, and be the adult in the room. Choose your battles carefully...don't get fixated on contending with toxic leaders.

So just smile and let it go. Focus on what's important, which is doing the best job at whatever is in front of you on a daily basis (a good start would be making sure everything is stocked 24/7) and developing your subordinate leaders. That's what really matters in the end! Everything else is just a distraction from your personal and professional goals. Don't worry about that CPT, sooner or later, everyone goes to the zoo!

Response by SCPO Christopher Rubino made Feb 2 at 2016 9:18 AM

SCPO Christopher Rubino — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:18:27 -0500

Where to start. There are a list of questions I could ask to help you decide on the best course of action. Is this habitual? Is it always from the same person, or is it the norm through out the command? As has been said already, you will come across this numerous times in your career, both in and out of the military. There are avenues to address this situation. From the face value of your post, I would say that you handled it correctly. In addition, if you have not already, let your NCO (SFC??) know what happened and that you are just making them aware of it but not making a formal complaint. In this way, if you NCO has heard or received other complaints, yours will help them see the pattern. If the nurse corrects herself then the issue is over. It is EVERYONE's responsibility to point out problems.weaknesses in the process/command/chain of command ETC. What is important is HOW YOU DO IT. Once you have made it know to the COC (NCO), if it happens again, inform the NCO again. With a "Formal" complaint. And then let the NCO address it. At your level, once you have brought it to their attention, it should no longer be your responsibility to address it. If you have a good NCO, (which I am sure you do), then they will address it properly. It only strengthens the command.

Just my view as a Salty Old Seadog.

Chris Rubino, Command Senior Chief (RET)

Response by Capt James Kerins made Feb 2 at 2016 9:50 AM

Capt James Kerins — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:50:21 -0500

Just do what your told to do, this is the US military. SO the nurse is being what you consider disrespectful because of her tone? Get over it and stop being so sensitive about you being disrespected. You were sitting at a computer with a newbie and she walked in and told you to go stock medical supplies and you are upset her tone was disrespectful? How about stocking all the medical supplies BEFORE you sit and show the newbie what you know on the computer.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Feb 2 at 2016 10:04 AM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 10:04:03 -0500

No... you are certainly not wrong! Respect for fellow members of the military, no matter what rank is paramount to getting and keeping good personnel. In my time, I've seen some incredible officers, some not so good, and others that seemed a bit ... confused by it all. During all that time, I have to say, I have never been treated in t hat manner by any officer. The fact that I was probably operating the vehicle they were sitting in at the time, might have had something to do with it...
Now, if you were a Marine, I'd say request Mast... but, since you are not, I'd say, go up the chain of command. If you are feeling this, my guess is there are many others feeling this way. No military job or organization can run without its "Minions" but many roll happily along without an officer in sight. Yes, Nurses are necessary, but apparently you have a few on a power trip that has nothing to do with their job, and everything to do with their personal views.
Go up t he chain, my friend. Be as polite, to the point, and concise as possible, but make the upper command aware of this... not just for you, but for those around you.

Response by TSgt Julie Miller made Feb 2 at 2016 10:37 AM

TSgt Julie Miller — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 10:37:14 -0500

How sad that this officer fails to see where they are wrong and are setting the wrong tone of leadership. To be a leader is to be willing to work side by side with your people, handling the same tasks as what you expect from them. Being a leader means knowing the proper way to address anyone, at any rank. What's even sadder here, is I can imagine that others are seeing this display and are failing to address it while it is still just a minor conflict. You are right in noting that patient care will suffer. As an E-6 you have earned a level of respect for your duties. I have been in your position on a few occasions and wanted so badly to explode. Fortunately, for me, my leadership allowed me the opportunity to handle it myself until the point came that they had to step in and take over. I urge you to utilize your leadership skills to continue to handle this in the most professional manner possible...Only time will bring whatever resolution it will.

Response by SSG Daniel Miller made Feb 2 at 2016 11:05 AM

SSG Daniel Miller — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:05:27 -0500

Sounds like you need to do a two-finger sweep and start acting like a Soldier deserving of being placed in a leadership position. You don't ask for respect from subordinates, peers, or superiors. You earn it. Being in an NCO slot means your two basic responsibilities are the accomplishment of your mission and the welfare of your Soldiers. Now on to dealing with officers. You have two options: complain to supervisors (yours and theirs) and lose what little respect they may have for a hard-charging Specialist, or tighten your boots and remind the officers what you are there for. "Sir/Ma'am, I don't appreciate you disrespecting me in front of my Soldiers. I am the Shift Leader, and should be treated as such. If you need something done, let me know, and I will be happy to help. But understand that without mutual professional courtesy, we can not effectively do our jobs and give these patients the attention they deserve." The most they will do from there is complain to your boss or theirs, and true colors can then be shown when all of you have a meeting together. If that fails, sabotage their paperwork.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 2 at 2016 11:07 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:07:33 -0500

I certainly don't understand the inner workings of a military hospital and how the Os and Es relate to each other, but I do understand the military justice system and regulations. At some point, a military person assigned to a hospital CONUS or OCONUS, will be assigned to a field unit. Once you are out there and potentially under fire, questioning the attitude of your senior will get you in serious trouble. If I were to take it up the COC, I would expect that I would not have recovered from it. Maybe this is the new PC military, but discipline, including getting chewed out in front of your peers will happen, even though it indicates poor leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 11:09 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:09:31 -0500

Big time suck it up, buttercup. You weren't told to do anything illegal, immoral or unethical. Did you like the tone she used? Nope. Do your feelings matter? Nope. This is the Army, not the cub scouts. Stop acting like your self worth is based on what you think others think of you. Have some security in your job performance. If you do good work, you know it and it doesn't matter if one bad apple doesn't realize it. Leaders often don't have time to play nice and explain everything in soft mittens details to their subordinates. There is a kernel of truth to the saying that the boss says jump and your only question should be how high.

Response by SFC Joseph Menna made Feb 2 at 2016 11:55 AM

SFC Joseph Menna — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:55:41 -0500

Spc, I am a retired SFC who was working in a 1SG position upon my retirement. i have worked for, with some very "tough to deal with officers" over my career. i have also had the pleasure of working with some excellent ones as well. I know how it is to work in positions above your pay grade as you are in now and it does have its challenges!

here is what I can recommend to you...drive on! if you spoken to the CPT and your SFC and CDR of nurses about the demeanor of that particular CPT and have come to no avail, then just focus on doing your job and training your soldiers. you are ALWAYS going to have those leaders (com and non-com) that are difficult to deal with in your military career. the Army is different everywhere you go (stationed), the people change out, and the jobs change. it is the Army, so you need to grow a bit of thick skin to get you through these people. concentrate of you, your job, and your soldiers. if you feel that you are being singled out and unfairly treat (which i didn't see in your post, just work with a "Butt-head") you always have the IG office to turn to. i would inform your chain of command if this is the case that you plan on speaking to IG on the matter. give that old crusty 1SG a chance to address it before you do!

Good luck and God Speed!

Danger 7 out!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 12:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 12:31:45 -0500

What hospital do you work at? Yes, if you feel you have exhausted the immediate CoC, you should request a meeting with the Hospital SGM and/or Deputy Chief for Clinical Services (DCCS). They should be able to take care of the issue. If no one in the hospital command will help, speak with the Regional Health Command IG for your region.

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Feb 2 at 2016 1:10 PM

Sgt Frank Rinchich — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:10:37 -0500

Put in for a transfer, keep putting them in till you are called up by the commander or you are transferred. She will eventually show her ass in the wrong place at the wrong time, in the mean time continue to be a solider and obey her orders, your shift can only last so long, shifts end your rid of her , at least till next shift. but flood the commander with transfer request, maybe even get your soldiers to put in for transfers, soon the commander will suspect something and when he/she calls you in there's your chance to let it all out. you either get the respect you seek from the commander or he /she will tell you to get back to work. ( learn the old song, your in the army now ) you will get my point.

Response by PO1 Michael Sarkisian made Feb 2 at 2016 2:24 PM

PO1 Michael Sarkisian — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 14:24:52 -0500

During my 20 years, I have met leaders and bosses. One inspires greatness from their troops, the other creates a hostile work environment. While both have the authority, how that authority is used will determine wether they are a leader or a boss. Since we don't have both sides of the story, I can't comment on her motivation. I would run it up the chain as it appears that she does not have the people skills to lead.

Response by MSgt David Haider made Feb 2 at 2016 2:32 PM

MSgt David Haider — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 14:32:13 -0500

if no action is being taken to correct the issue, then proceed up the chain of command.

Response by CSM James Winslow made Feb 2 at 2016 3:26 PM

CSM James Winslow — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:26:38 -0500

Go talk to your local Inspector General. Make sure you have your "Ducks in a row" when you do, with concrete examples, times and dates and possibly some witnesses. Maltreatment of Subordinates is a command problem, and each commander is responsible for maintaining a "positive command climate" IAW AR 600-20, Chapters 1 and 6. Remember, Creating a positive command climate is a command responsibility- the LTC in question may be the chief of the nursing staff, but not the commander. Your Inspector General can help weed through this.

Response by SGT Michael Lee made Feb 2 at 2016 4:03 PM

SGT Michael Lee — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:03:51 -0500

You could've checked if anything else needs to be done before you decided to show your soldier the system for charting. Meaning if you didn't find anything ask someone, and if they have nothing then tell them what you plan to do. The nurse sounds special...I don't care what rank they are! Things like that didn't fly in the Infantry. If any officer was being negative towards you, you certainly didn't take it up with them, and even though were doing the duties as an E-6 you are still a Specialist. I've had to also fill the roles of an E-6, but always new my place.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 4:07 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:07:51 -0500

Hahaha when it comes to the commissioned officer world sometimes just have to eat shit and wait until it's time to PCS. Long as your soon to be rating chain recognizes your actions and once you pin U get good NcOers I dunno man but I've witnessed that going up against officers is at times a losing battle. Keep doing what your doing and let them know how u feel and if shit doesn't get better go up the chain and if it still doesn't get better (very possible) then try for a new assignment before U say the wrong thing to the wrong person. Some people and departments U can't fix

Response by CPL Jason Mazzocchio made Feb 2 at 2016 4:23 PM

CPL Jason Mazzocchio — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:23:52 -0500

My initial thought was to tell you to suck it up, however, after reflection and much thought I have changed my response. My background is 11B. Enlisted pre 9/11, RIP, left 75th hq and went to Campbell then to OEF. There was no wrong way to lead in my structure. It was hey F-wad, go do this, go climb that, go pick up cigarette butts in the parking lot all followed with a yes Sgt or sir. That was my reality and is the reality of infantry because shippy things are gonna go down and your job is to execute that order. That worked for us and probably saved several lives in the sand. I have since left the service.

I am now a registered nurse and work in the ICU in the local hospital. It would be highly unlikely I would ever tell our techs in the aforementioned manner to do their job. If I see something undone I'll walk say something to the effect of: Lisa, can you grab ----- and ----- when you get done here. or Lisa I need ---- right now please, I have ---- going on. and end it with a thank you.

I bring this up because these techs are unlicensed personnel, generally CNAs, and this falls directly in their scope of practice and I need them and rely on them. Without them I would be dead in the water and be providing sub-optimal care. I am their boss, I can get them removed, and I can be a jerk but I need them and when they are respected I am respected. This goes on to a more important point in your case IMO. First, you are not CNAs; you are life saving bad anuses who saved many of our anuses several times in the box. Without you we would never make it into a hospital for a nurse to see us. No capt nurse is walking the lines with us, or jumping from the c-130 next to us into the shi*. In that I will respect you infinitely more than some walk-in with a BSN. Secondly, You are in a supervisory position regardless of your rank. Maybe you are short staffed but that does not change your authority and your position. I would assume that this nurse would not address the SSG or SFC in the same manner she addressed you. she may address the spc or pfc or pvt that is under the SFC like she did because likely it is their job to fill the carts. The senior NCO's job is to train those lil pfcs to stock carts, do jobs, and fill out electronic charts. The senior NCO's position is to manage those under him/her and maintain the integrity of the unit and keep the flow going.

I am going to assume you were unaware that the stocking job was undone (or in your professional and supervisory opinion it was secondary to the training you were about to conduct) and that you would have ordered someone to have it completed and maintained, nevertheless you took that opportunity to train your subordinate on the most important part of the medical office process and that is charting. If it isn't charted it wasn't done. That is the standard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 4:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:37:05 -0500

Just do as you're told. They're not doing anything wrong they just lack tact.

Response by GySgt David Roth made Feb 2 at 2016 5:11 PM

GySgt David Roth — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:11:34 -0500

Request Mast to the CO or whatever you Army types call it.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Feb 2 at 2016 5:30 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:30:47 -0500

My one suggestion would be to back up a bit and follow a different road with your chain of command. You stated that you spoke with your SFC (Platoon Sergeant?) and then the Nurse Commander. I'm not sure if the Chain of Command is structured differently in a hospital environment, but if you're going to pursue it up the chain of command, I would make sure and talk to your 1SG, and then if that doesn't solve it, go to the CSM next. They will most likely be the most help you'll get AND you might end up with your butt in a whole different sling by skipping those guys.

Response by SFC Sean Chambers made Feb 2 at 2016 5:42 PM

SFC Sean Chambers — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:42:48 -0500

I am retired now and have experienced this myself. I recommend you speak to the Hospital Commander and address the issues, request her being moved as this is a now a hostile environment for the enlisted member. Good luck. Sorry you had this experience. Most Officers are good people but occasionally you run into the power hungry shitbag Officer.

Response by SPC Bouaketh Chanthavisouk made Feb 2 at 2016 5:51 PM

SPC Bouaketh Chanthavisouk — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:51:34 -0500

SPC Souza, it happens on the civilian side too. Except replace rank with years of seniority and you've got a similar situation. You can send it up the chain, and let that run its course. A bit of tact on your part will earn you the respect you desire, and set a great example for the other enlisted soldiers. You can speak to the nurse in question and afford her all the military courtesy deserving of the rank. Take the high road as you do so. Make it about the "we" and less about the "me".

For instance:
Excuse me ma'am, do you have a moment? I need to speak with you about something.
We are really bothered by the way you mistook our training session for goofing off. We realize there is nothing we can do about your perception, but it is important to us that you know how we feel when you assume that we were not engaged in constructive activity.
If you address the perception or make it an issue of excellence in patient care, the respect you seek should follow. If it does not, you have to let it go and control what you can which is yourself. It's more of a reflection on her than it is on you.

Response by SSG Robert Schell made Feb 2 at 2016 5:55 PM

SSG Robert Schell — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:55:46 -0500

Chain of Command. Keep going up.

Response by SSG John Caples made Feb 2 at 2016 7:06 PM

SSG John Caples — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 19:06:20 -0500

No, you are not wrong, whether you know it or not, you are acting and being leader, she should treat you and your soldiers as such, 1ST go through your enlisted chain and ask to talk to IG and you have attempted to resolve this at your level and can go no further with this issue. The CPT and the other officers are affecting your work environment the welfare of you and your sm's that work for you

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 7:42 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 19:42:34 -0500

Stop crying... Step one. Eventually you will come to realize that had you had a set of balls and joined the combat arms, that you were being addressed as nicely as possible. It gets worse. If you need a dose of Army reality, try taking a tour as a line medic.

Response by SrA John Sturm made Feb 2 at 2016 8:16 PM

SrA John Sturm — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 20:16:24 -0500

I've always found DC medical officers to be awesome to work with. Most are super down to earth and try to distance themselves from military formalities as much as possible. I had a group of LTC's (and token full bird) in Oki that would invite me out fishing nearly every other weekend and pay for my charter seat as I was the lone E-3, while only asking that I provide the beer. That said, when working at the Camp Lester OR, which we'd borrow for maxillofacial surgeries twice a month, they had some Navy O-3 OR Nurse in there that was a huge **nt. It was so bad that our surgeon (Colonel) ended up stopping in the middle of the surgery, slammed down his instruments, and went in on her in front of the whole OR. She piped down after that.

Maybe it's a nurse thing. I've even seen it in civilian hospitals -- nurses feel inept compared to doctors with their higher credentials, and seem like they overcompensate by treating technicians like garbage. That's my personal opinion through both professional encounters and third party observation, but it's anecdotal. All I know is 9 times out of 10 when I'm in a medical treatment facility for any reason at all and someone is clearly angry or being disrespectful to coworkers, it's a nurse. Anyone know if that's a requirement of their board process?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 8:27 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 20:27:45 -0500

You don't go to the Commander, you use your NCO support channel. Your SFC is WEAK, go to your 1SG or the CSM. If I was your CSM and you went to the hospital commander before you come and seen me I would take of you right after I took care of the problem. In other words use your SR Enlisted first and then if that doesn't work then you take the next step. But never give them (Nurses) the chance to use something against you.

Response by SR Bryon Aebersold made Feb 2 at 2016 9:13 PM

SR Bryon Aebersold — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 21:13:09 -0500

Some people have no idea that you have to mange upward and not down, this goes with military life and civilian life, sorry to day but your complaints are probably going to fall on deaf ears, I would just day be sure that everything is done if that is ever possible.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 9:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 21:20:12 -0500

The one thing that I have learned in my career is there are always two sides to every story. For example: This captain may have caught you or someone on your team playing on facebook or other social media, then immediately assumed you were doing it again (since you were on a computer). He or she could have had a bad day and snapped. When I was an E-1 thru E-4 I would have never had the audacity to approach a CPT in that manner, maybe its because I was a combat engineer and the only time I saw an officer was for an award or Article 15. Enlisted Soldiers in the medical field have become ignorant to the difference between and E-4 and O-3. As read below, the medical field has tolerated it for so long that the difference in rank is lost! I have failed in the past, most of the time because of my approach. Before pulling him or her aside again explain what you were doing. Not just stating you were shift leader. Ask him or her what are their priorities? maybe ensuring the ER was stocked was more important to that nurse than going over the computer system. Again, I am not saying you were right or wrong, there are just too many variables in your story.

Response by SFC Derrick Graves made Feb 2 at 2016 10:11 PM

SFC Derrick Graves — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 22:11:51 -0500

It appears to me you have utilized the chain of command appropriately to try and resolve the problem in a professional manner. I would like to make you aware of an incident that was in the media which involved Lt. Gen. John F. Mulholland Jr and his conduct towards subordinates who were giving him a briefing on April 2014. During the briefing the General used abusive language to the point where two complaints were filed with the DoD Hotline ( Anyone may file a complaint with the DoD Hotline. The mission of the DoD Hotline is to provide a confidential, reliable means to report violations of law, rule or regulation, mismanagement, gross waste of funds, abuse of authority). Ultimately after the investigation was completed the complaints were substantiated under the following findings: A three-star general "failed to treat his subordinates with dignity and respect". General Mulholland made the following statement after the investigation:"He stated that there was no excuse for his conduct that day, that he has great respect for the team members and that such conduct would never occur again". Unfortunately, this is one of many examples of toxic leadership that continues to prevail in today's military. I can only presume from the posting of your incident on this blog site that the issue is bothering you both personally and professionally. I will just say you have other avenues at your disposal (DoD Hotline, IG, and Congressional Inquiry) if you don't feel that the chain of command is acting to resolve the problem. The moral of the story is no one (enlisted or officer) is above the law regardless of their rank and all soldier's are entitled to dignity and respect from E-1 to O-10. Good Luck in your pursuits.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 10:13 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 22:13:36 -0500

Sadly, just because you have rank, doesn't mean you're a professiona or a leaderl. Aggravating as I'm sure this is, just be the professional that this person clearly is not. They may have rank on you, but always remember that being a Captain doesn't mean that you're a leader. As with most toxic (I won't call them leaders), people, they will ultimately get what's coming to them. Until then, just work hard and keep your head down. You'll move up. And this person will always suck......and they know it.

Response by GySgt James Simpson made Feb 2 at 2016 10:18 PM

GySgt James Simpson — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 22:18:51 -0500

You could always tell her to piss off and come back when she can speak with a civil tongue in her mouth. Or you could be a bit more pc in your response if you choose. Some people need to be reminded from time to time that the world does not revolve around them.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 10:40 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 22:40:18 -0500

I like Sgt Kennedy's suggestion. I would call the Chaplain Corps (Chaplain and/or Chaplain Assistant) and see if they could step up visitation. Perhaps she has something going on she needs a safe person to unload on. It should be completely normal for them to walk around checking on morale and not raise any suspicion and take care of the care giver. Then I would too it of with praying for her and asking God for wisdom and favor...but I'm a Chaplain and that's what we do

Response by PO1 John Mayfield made Feb 2 at 2016 10:49 PM

PO1 John Mayfield — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 22:49:45 -0500

When they (nurses) hit the civilian world they are in for a real education. When they pull that type pf crap, the will get a real education.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 11:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:18:57 -0500

Yes ma'am. I was just giving the new soldier a run through of the system, but we will get rite on it. That works wonderful. That lets them know that you are doing something other than what she thinks, but you or more than happy to stop and do what she needs done.
One thing you will learn is sensitivity to what others say will not get you very far. As a future NCO you have to learn how to make your chain of command work for you and you guys. To do that you have to learn how to be tactful but stern in what you say. Also just because you are in that position does not mean that you will be treated as such. Some things take time to earn.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 11:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:59:21 -0500

Go to a line unit and worry about disrespect...

Response by CN Michael Bachman made Feb 3 at 2016 12:06 AM

CN Michael Bachman — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:06:21 -0500

To treat this problem at the source you need to find their leadership if they dont fix it find the ones above them and so o thats how you fix this

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 12:35 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:35:47 -0500

SPA Souza, you say your filling a E-6 position as a shift leader and got for feelings hurt because an officer had to give you an order for you to do your job. I would have to say stocking supplies would be an appropriate job as a SPC. With that P after the SPC tells me your going after a higher degree of responsibility. Yet you failed at a lower level of responsibility. I have to say your lucky to have walked away without some extra duty or some lost wages. Your lucky this CPT didn't light up your 1SG for your actions.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:46 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 01:46:12 -0500

There are two sides to every story, and only hearing your side, WHILE knowing nothing of your command, really limits the viable answers. That you think going to the hospital commander gives me pause. There are very few situations where an E-4 should go directly to a CO. For this, on the base level, perhaps there's an unfortunate climate, but if it runs rampant, it should show up in the DEOCS, if it doesn't, the CO is not the one to address it. There are undoubtedly many more rungs to the ladder between you and him/her. Are you sure you've hit them all? What about your Senior Enlisted Advisor? If you jump the chain, you'll show a huge amount of disrespect to every person you bypassed, which has the potential to diminish your credibility on your subject of concern: respect. There also could well be things at work you are not privy to. But if you truly think the matter merits such an action, you better have your ducks in a row and have ample documentation.

Response by SSG Jerome Schmidt made Feb 3 at 2016 7:50 AM

SSG Jerome Schmidt — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:50:04 -0500

An E-4 in a E-6 slot is still an E-4... Just saying. Some people are just rude, a personality issue. Deal with it in a professional manner and then embrace the suck.

Response by SPC Marcus DeMatos made Feb 3 at 2016 7:57 AM

SPC Marcus DeMatos — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:57:02 -0500

As a member of the "specialist mafia" you should be well equipped to "manage your managers". However if the Captain is that dense then you are usually wasting your time in helping her realize her ineptness by conditioning her responses in subtle Pavlovian manner.
As an E-4(P) do you realize that by regulation if you are being worked in a billet two grades or more above yours that you are automatically entitled to be moved to the nearest NCO rank? Go see your 1SG, you are eligible to be a CPL and the stripes might help in being taken seriously.
Final word on CPT Duhhhh... if she seems to be deliberately abusive and you aren't getting any help from the CoC, right up to the LTC Hospital Commander, then you can always pursue an IG complaint or a Congressional. It sucks to do it, because it can ruin careers, but it always shakes things up.

Response by Pvt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 8:32 AM

Pvt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:32:31 -0500

Jesus, sounds like an army problem. How about just stacking the #-;?ing blankets. Try not to forget you are a soldier and not a new balance wearing techie at Google. Make sure not to get tears on your cammies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 10:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 10:07:39 -0500

Honestly I don't see how this was that bad. Some people just approach conversations differently and she was certainly in her right to give you direction in such a manor. Suck it up Soldier, she wasn't disrespectful if the conversation went exactly as shown. If it's much worse than this (ie derogatory comments) than perhaps a complaint is warranted. If that happens, go up your NCO support channel for assistance. I noticed that you mentioned some SFC's had been spoken to but the you jumped to a LTC. Are there no MSG/1SG's then SGM/CSM you can talk to eventually when warranted?

Response by MAJ Joseph Ward made Feb 3 at 2016 10:19 AM

MAJ Joseph Ward — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 10:19:21 -0500

Sounds like a civilian hospital, interesting. My Wife is a civilian Nurse and sees this and one of my civilian jobs was in a hospital for a few years. Have you gone to the CSM?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 11:12 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:12:59 -0500

Definitely pull the officer aside and talk one on one. Level with the individual. Respectfully of course

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 12:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:42:43 -0500

Karma is a bitch. At some point the person in question is going to need you for something. I have found this with both Officer and NCO's - and at that point that person is giong to either benefit from your being a professional or you can stand back and let them flail about and sink.

Response by SPC Patrick Brenan made Feb 3 at 2016 12:46 PM

SPC Patrick Brenan — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:46:16 -0500

Sounds like you need to ETD

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:09:52 -0500

Try going to your EO let him or her know what's going on and the routes you've taken and that nothing is being done. If it continues then take it to the hospital commander and let him know the unprofessionalism of his nurses it would also help if you had statement from the other soldiers involved. Good luck.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 1:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:31:31 -0500

You are a specialist, so get overbit. Earn your respect as you get your rank. If ou would had come to me complaing and crying as youbare doing on here i would had mad you stepmup and act like ansoldier. Ifbyoubare wanting to be a civilian then get out the military!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 3:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:34:49 -0500

Hey when all channels fail to support you, take it to IG.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 4:01 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:01:27 -0500

Do EXACTLY what they tell you to. I mean EXACTLY. This is how you save your butt, but at the same time. if they screw up, it is there butts! Don't do what you think they want, but rather exactly what they say........ This will hang them in the end. I have found that the arrogant people usually have high expectations of others that they refuse to do themselves. This is usually a bad attitude when others are following orders. Like I said, do EXACTLY like they say........ Stock the Warmers.... Stock them. They did not say with what....

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 4:07 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:07:33 -0500

Toughen up cupcake. You were not mistreated, next time be the leader and know what needs the most attention. The fact an officer felt the need to direct you and others means you either were not doing the most productive work or APPEARED so. Either way, it is an opportunity for you to improve, not whine and act like an entitled malcontent.

Response by SSG Shafter Baker made Feb 3 at 2016 4:09 PM

SSG Shafter Baker — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:09:03 -0500

Toughen up cupcake... It's the Army, not the kindergarten...

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 3 at 2016 4:55 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:55:44 -0500

What we need is a "safe place" for our junior NCOs, just like in college. No one can hurt your feelings when you are there. We used to call it a head.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Feb 3 at 2016 5:50 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 17:50:06 -0500

Many have suggested some strategies and of course, doing nothing. I think it is timing that may have you down. You told about everyone in immediate burst radius of the problem. Give them a minute to work through the issue. They may have been non-committal with you, but you don't know what has happened or is about to happen with that particular captain. And you may never know. For all you know she maybe on the radar already. You are unlikely to have the John Hughes-esque moment of karmic satisfaction with the slow clap as she is hauled off in irons. Justice is not always swift or visible.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2016 6:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 18:29:06 -0500

There are two sides to every story, you may actually be the problem, or known as the constant whiner, just sucked that stuff up until you have another Avenue of approach. I doubt that going through all of those channels and not be getting any help, sounds like you may be the problem. The problem being ignored is highly unheard of unless you are the problem to begin with. But again, two sides to every story.

Response by PO1 Javid Benson made Feb 3 at 2016 8:45 PM

PO1 Javid Benson — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:45:28 -0500

Go see how the Navy E6 in aviation deal with O3 LT's. You may learn something or two. Pilots knew u don't puss off the guys working on your aircraft

Response by SSG Nathan Berg made Feb 3 at 2016 9:04 PM

SSG Nathan Berg — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:04:37 -0500

suck it the fuck up. this PC shit is killing all of us. the officers set the rules, the enlisted do our best to enforce them (or appear to) when we can. also, whining to everyone you can, that someone who has been doing this for a lot longer than you, is not going to get you anywhere. so stop it, and know your role.

Response by CMSgt David Colton made Feb 3 at 2016 9:17 PM

CMSgt David Colton — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:17:41 -0500

You have gotten a lot of good responses on your post. Having retired from the USAF after 39 years and the last 15 as a Chief (E-9} you could have come to me and I would have put an end to the disrespect. The other option would be to join the USAF. I worked a lot over the years with the Army and I can tell you I have seen the Capt. attitude many times in the Army. In the Air Force this captains career would be short lived.

Response by SGT Ron Smith made Feb 3 at 2016 9:24 PM

SGT Ron Smith — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:24:54 -0500

Sounds like you ran it up the chain. Approach the hospital commander. Give it a couple of weeks. If no improvement is seen then your next avenue is the Post IG (Inspector General). They are the internal affairs office for the armed services. Do this in person. A simple phone call to the hospital commander from the IG's office makes them nervous. The key to this is that you have used your chain of command to voice your concerns. Former U.S. Army MP

Response by Cpl Dale Jones made Feb 3 at 2016 9:25 PM

Cpl Dale Jones — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:25:59 -0500

I was marine infantry so I didn't have the choice to ask for respect from my leaders when I felt like my feelings were hurt nor would I have. What I did do was suck it up and did my job better that way some boot butter bar had nothing to say to me. I wasn't always on point and when I got spoke to it was for good reason but there is a difference the officers that were in charge of us seemed to get that we were the backbone pulling the wagon and respect was almost never an issue maybe I was lucky to serve with some kick ass officers but I tell you this they always had our back and we showed them the level of respect that they earned I didn't always like what was said but I understood the chain of command. I gather your work environment operates with a different set of rules trying to operate as a civilian hospital with military chain of command must have its very own unique set of obsticals. Being a leader isn't all about rank in most cases it has nothing to do with it so be a leader and know your those who work with you maybe she is having problems that you don't know about.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 4 at 2016 12:21 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:21:11 -0500

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member, Your complaint is understood and reasonable. You deserve to be treated with respect whether you are a front line medic or a supervisor. Maybe the officer believes they are in a different social class than you because they see you and other enlisted as servants. I've seen that in my time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 4:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 04:27:34 -0500

What are you going to do about rude people?
Do you think that changes them? If that person is instilled with the mentality that they are "officers " & you're just a nobody , then they really shouldn't be an officer AKA " a leader". You keep up the hard work, and later in life you'll succeed ALOT further then they ever did. They might beat you for 20 years.. But once the uniform comes off, guess who will win in the long run?

Loose the battles, not the wars..

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 4:53 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 04:53:58 -0500

Perhaps you can learn as a new leader, shift supervisor, or what have you, that you should arrive early and conduct a walk through of your spaces to ensure the previous shift has not left you "out there flapping" and not accept the ward, until the basic standard is met. If there are no established standards, write them yourself and have this nurse sign off, thereby demonstrating your own initiative to create a more professional environment. I too speak from experience in your shoes and hers that finding the blanket warmer empty, the IV cart empty, the fluid warmer empty, the positioning gear in a mess, and the sterile instruments not processed all night long is frustrating to the leadership. Perhaps ensuring your areas of responsibility are wired tight before conducting opportunity training will mitigate potential miscommunication. Who knows, maybe these failures on your part to do your assigned tasks were pointed out to her in an unflattering manner by her superior?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 5:41 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 05:41:49 -0500

AR 600-20 paragraph 4-19

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 5:42 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 05:42:24 -0500

Maybe that nurse had some bad experience of other people not doing much. I am a medical provider in the armed forces. I think you should talk out the situation if it really bothers you. I like how you confronting the captain, but maybe in a lesser tone kinda like a daily conversation. That way you get to see her side of story and tell her abt how you felt. I think you guys can resolve the issue. Cheers

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 8:01 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:01:24 -0500

Have you used the CSM?

Response by SGT Richard Rodriguez made Feb 4 at 2016 9:22 AM

SGT Richard Rodriguez — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 09:22:43 -0500

I was the ncoic of the admissions and dispositions office at famc in the 90s as an e-5 holding an e-7 slot. I also had some trouble with civilian and military nurses doing the same things being disrespectful and very rude on the phone or what have you. I followed the chain of command and not much was ever said or done. I told the enlistees below me just to do what is asked or ordered and do not talk back in an inappropriate manner. I knew and that the persons above me know you were doing there job and that was all that mattered.

Response by SSG Shawn Sawyer made Feb 4 at 2016 9:27 AM

SSG Shawn Sawyer — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 09:27:19 -0500

SPC Souza,
You don't have a leg to stand on. This comes across to me as you having a "title" , some responsibility, and your using it to whine because the Captain didn't say "please". Now, it's possible she could have used better judgement as you were teaching as new troop a computer program. However, the floor and patient care comes first. Seems you need to grow up some, obey your orders and earn your impending rank.

Response by SGT James Markwell made Feb 4 at 2016 10:27 AM

SGT James Markwell — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:27:18 -0500

As a veteran, since when does it matter HOW an officer tells you to do something. This is definitely a different military than I grew up in.

Response by LCpl Chad Parson made Feb 4 at 2016 10:55 AM

LCpl Chad Parson — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:55:48 -0500

It sounds like a confluence of inexperienced leadership (or poor interpersonal skills) in how the Captain approached the situation, and too much sensitivity in how the OP responded. If I had gotten got butthurt every time I was dressed down or "felt disrespected" by someone who outranked me, my time in the Marines would have been absolutely miserable.

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Feb 4 at 2016 11:38 AM

SMSgt William Hassiepen — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:38:05 -0500

Many of us have faced the same situation and frankly while she may think she is all of "this" her future relies on you and your team. Clearly there are ways to say "make a demonstration" the say makes her leadership look bad. Unfortunately the balance is that you are Medics and have patients. Unfortunately in the military there is always an "a-hole"

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Feb 4 at 2016 1:20 PM

Lt Col Stephen Petzold — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 13:20:32 -0500

If nothing else you are getting good training on how not to act when someday you are the one in charge. Remember how you feel now and don't put your troops in a similar situation.

Response by MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson made Feb 4 at 2016 2:09 PM

MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:09:30 -0500

I'm going to echo many of the comments here and say that you should suck it up and just do as she says. Plus, there's a sexist undertone to your post that I don't like. Is she not entitled to give you orders or set priorities because she's a woman and a nurse? Having said that, she could have handled the situation better - there's usually no need to be gratuitously unpleasant when making sure stuff gets done. I don't know if that is usually her leadership style, but perhaps your duty performance is misaligned with her priorities, and that's why she gets frustrated? In that case, you should request a 1-1 meeting, and, instead of whining about feeling "disrespected," you should ask her upfront about what she feels is a more important use of time at certain periods of time - taking care of patients or conducting training? If priorities are aligned, you'll find that the working relationship will improve greatly.

Response by SP5 Christopher Arsenault made Feb 4 at 2016 2:50 PM

SP5 Christopher Arsenault — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:50:29 -0500

Baclava and a baseball bat in a dark alley

Response by SSgt Gary Guinn made Feb 4 at 2016 2:51 PM

SSgt Gary Guinn — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:51:37 -0500

Sounds like you are in a bad situation my friend. Basic respect is something that is required of all. Respect works two ways. The problem in the medical field is that a lot of these nurses and doctors may have active duty service commitments because they took the cash to get an education and they resent it and don't want to be there. Well tough Titty, you took the benefits and now you gotta pay it back. I would consider doing a IG complaint or Congressional if you can't resolve this locally. I don't know how your Commander is, but it sounds like your entire Chain of Command doesn't care. Just to cross the t's and dot the i's, talk to the Hospital Commander first. If it doesn't work, then "Unleash the Kraken" on them. Good Luck and hope this issue works out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 3:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:29:34 -0500

If her behavior towards you is creating a hostile work environment, and nothing you do is helping, then go to the IG. Remember, your tact matters as much as hers. Otherwise, and not to sound crass, your best option is to suck it up and just do your job. By all means explain to her that you weren't doing "nothing" (respectfully of course), but if she doesn't always treat you and your soldiers that way then it's best to just leave it be. It's the military; some people are douchebags and some people aren't. Some people are worth going up the chain of command over and others aren't.

Response by SFC Russell Shaw made Feb 4 at 2016 3:31 PM

SFC Russell Shaw — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:31:55 -0500

I know you have already tried several things. Here is a few more.
1. Meet and talk without complaining. Determine what that believe the problem is and find out what the solutions should be seek to find common ground as you are both seeking a positive outcome.
2. Meet privately and be respectful, be honest about how this makes you feel. At the end of the discussion if you have done all you can to meet them on middle ground and provided a solution. In the end keep your cool and walk away with your integrity.
3. Ask questions, prepare questions ahead of time. What is it you expect from me and my section? How can we meet your expectations? Do you have a problem with how I am operating my section? What could we do better as a team? You know your section and will probably have much more questions. Listen to her answers intently do not interrupt and listen for what you can ask next. The person who asks the questions controls much of the conversation.
4. Be consistently pleasant no matter what is said. Process your emotions do let his push you toward more negative emotions that just makes it harder on you. Negative emotions can influence your decision making and even affect how you lead your people.
5. Look for places you and the leader agree and focus on them. This will help you to understand them better. You never know what may be going on for them personally it isn't right to take it out on others but many people do.
6. Go the extra mile, and discover your own sense of purpose.
7. Be confident in your own value. You have value you every person does use the talents and skills you have to add value to others. No matte how much you do right does not mean others will treat you right, if you do the right thing every time others will notice. Sometimes people just treat us bad for no apparent reason but believe in yourself and your own value. Talk very positive to yourself our self talk is very important it can help us in the midst of bad situations.
8. Don't accept blame that doesn't belong to you. When something is your fault own up to it but do not let people take blame for what others do. If it is your subordinates you should bare some of the responsibility.
9. Do not become the victim. Those who feel they cannot change what is happening may take on the victims attitude. Do not allow yourself to think this way it is important again to say good things to yourself because you have tremendous value don't let anyone take that belief in yourself away from you.
This is ways a tough place to be but live on a higher level and do not allow others to drag you down and separate yourself from the negativeness as much as possible.

Response by CPO Gregory Faircloth made Feb 4 at 2016 4:42 PM

CPO Gregory Faircloth — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:42:32 -0500

I just find it ineradicable that junior enlist members who have been in the military a minute, are going to lecture senior enlisted or officers on how they should be addressed and treated. in the story (the writers point of view lets not forget) the SPC states he is showing a soldier something on the computer..(not surfing internet ..sure) but even if that correct who's to say SPC should have been doing other duties such as stocking empty blankets!.. who put the SPC in-charge of his own work detail? I guess the SPC thinks he does what he wants... can the LT be in-charge for awhile... Perhaps the SPC should watch FMJ the movie and then ask himself just how bad things relay are.. I guess when this SPC gets all the shit jobs he will figure out who's in charge... CPO ret out..

Response by CPO Roy Thornton made Feb 4 at 2016 4:48 PM

CPO Roy Thornton — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:48:31 -0500

She is a first tour officer, your senior enlisted supervisor should be setting her strait and training her on leadership... Not management as the primary vehicle through which she issues orders. This will work for her for a short time and then her fitness reports will begin to single her out. If she isn't fixed soon she won't last. Set the example for her. BTW not sure of your responsibilities, different service different, job but I made sure as a first class (E-6) that no officer had a chance to tell me we were defficient I was ahead of them...Age and experience will trump education and title at that stage.

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Feb 4 at 2016 5:16 PM

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:16:25 -0500

I can only go by experience. I had a Pilot who would not listen to me. I told him several times he was going to get us killed. I went up the ladder. Even had a one on one talk with him. Finally got a " incompatable" answer and was able to dump him. If you don't get an answer, always ask to go up the ladder. I also had to do this in Civil Service. They tried to keep me from seeing the Col. but it did not work. Regardless of rank, all service members deserve respect.

Response by Bill Kim made Feb 4 at 2016 6:15 PM

Bill Kim — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 18:15:01 -0500

IMO all officers should serve at least two years enlisted first, regardless. It's a moral imperative. Although I've met plenty of non-prior enlisted officers who were cool as fuck, I only spent one term as an enlisted, so I didn't get to feel the suckitude of being treated badly more. Although when I was enlisted and they DID try to be dicks to me I exercised my brains more on them and made them look dumb.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 6:29 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 18:29:55 -0500

Have you spoken to the senior NCO at the hospital? The CSM? I would go there first. I think you handled the nurse (CPT) quite well. Based on what you wrote, she was out of line.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 8:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 20:57:01 -0500

I'm not going to put any sugar on this. Do as your told, be polite, suck it up and be the professional Soldier that the other person isn't. A lawful order is a lawful order, and you swore an oath to follow them. No matter how large or small. I understand that the Officer in question probably needs a lesson in tact and bedside manner, but that is not your position. Stay low, pop smoke, move out, and draw fire. I Feel your pain, but sometimes you have to nod and, "Yes Sir/Ma'am/Sergeant, and move on.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 9:38 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:38:35 -0500

At this point suck it up, unfortunately there are toxic leaders in the Army and everywhere, you have done everything you can without being considered insubordinate.

Just understand that 'Karma is a bitch and people will reap what they sow. There will come a time that this officer willl need the assistance of someone but won't get it.

Be thankful you identified the situation and you can be prepared to take car of you soldiers.

Response by Sgt Jamie Greenhalgh made Feb 4 at 2016 11:49 PM

Sgt Jamie Greenhalgh — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 23:49:40 -0500

Unfortunately you will have dirt bag leaders. They know their dirt bags. Just do what your ordered. Unfortunately patient care is going to suffer. Your not the only one who noticed that the nurse is rude and tactless. I'm sure her bad attitude transfers to her bedside manner. Just hang in there and document everything.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 12:06 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 00:06:05 -0500

As an army nurse officer, I want to apologize for what happened to you. Nurse's don't always have the best reputation for respect and politeness to peers (nurses eat their young) and it sounded pretty unfair. If she had an issue with you, it needed to be behind a closed door and away from a junior soldier under you. I can't explain her actions, but a lot of people are right in that direct commission doesn't exactly get a great training course in officership.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 4:03 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 04:03:23 -0500

Embrace the suck...anf drive on. Stop been offended by tone and words. Grow some...would help.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 5:36 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 05:36:18 -0500

Sorry, I still don't consider "disrespected" to be proper English. One is treated disrespectfully, not "disrespected."

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 6:31 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 06:31:53 -0500

Have you filled out a hurt feelings report? If I were you I would march straight into the CSM's office slam the door behind me and DEMAND that something be done!

Response by Cpl Gregory Hajder made Feb 5 at 2016 9:28 AM

Cpl Gregory Hajder — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:28:26 -0500

That is why we have Request Mast.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 10:46 AM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:46:29 -0500

To be honest, as an A1C (E-3) any action I take wouldn't be regarded as the right thing to do, even though I've been around O-6's and up for a long period of my life. Anyways, I normally would have been an ass by standing at attention, saying "Ma'am, as opposed to doing nothing, right now my Airmen and I are currently working on training. I will get to the "blanket warmers" when I am finished. If there are any issues, take it up with my supervisor." That's how I would've responded as a respected NCO, not the junior enlisted that I am. I would've brushed it off.... and waited for a chance to bring it up in conversation later when others are discussing what makes that specific person an amazing officer.

However, how you handled the situation is infinitely better than how I would have. Officers should show respect to Enlisted, as it is the other way around. That's why Officer's are REQUIRED to return a salute, it's not an option.

Response by PO2 Donald Hanson made Feb 5 at 2016 11:34 AM

PO2 Donald Hanson — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 11:34:44 -0500

Get transferred or go with blind compliance.

Response by SrA Kenneth Staup made Feb 5 at 2016 3:25 PM

SrA Kenneth Staup — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:25:14 -0500

The only thing that I can think of is to keep going up the chain until you get some answers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 3:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:27:29 -0500

So in what manner should the CPT have asked you to perform the given task? If the CPT belittled you, cursed and called you names and berated you in front of other Soldiers and your subordinates then I would see a need for your complaint. To me, this issue is one of the many reasons for the decline in discipline and military bearing. When you are given an order, it is given to you, not asked of you. As a leader, I should not have to say "Please" or "Do you mind' or "If it isn't an issue could you". I say "(insert rank) police call this area" or "SGT, put together a class on reading the LES and get it to me by COB today". I give an order and the subordinate acknowledges and carries out the given task. With that said, respect, tact, and common courtesy should be given. I am not sure how long you have been in the military, or what your overall experiences have been, but after ten years in, half of which was combat arms, and three combat tours, you learn that when an order is given, you just do it. Ive had my share of ass chewings, smoke sessions, and getting locked up IOT receive my order. Was I upset? NO. Thick skin is something some people do not seem to have nor the ability to grow.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 4:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:05:55 -0500

Suck it up and drive on. Simple as that. But instead you come to the Internet because you can't take care of your own problems.

Response by SSgt Scott Reynolds made Feb 5 at 2016 4:54 PM

SSgt Scott Reynolds — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:54:43 -0500

You go grab a straw from the DFAC and suck it the fuck up! You're a specialist! An E-nothing, and you feel the need to give you OIC guidance on tact? Nothing she said was wrong, maybe you just say yes Ma'am and carry out the assigned tasks. What kind of leadership are you teaching the new guy? That its ok to question authority. Holding a billet without the rank to go along with it means jack shit. At the end of the day you're a non-NCO that's being borderline belligerent. You don't get to demand that an Officer or SNCO say please when assigning tasks. This is the problem with today's military!

Response by Capt Michael Halpin made Feb 5 at 2016 5:42 PM

Capt Michael Halpin — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:42:23 -0500

Suck it up and move on.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 5:55 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:55:14 -0500

frag her ass!! No, not really. As a former E6 hospital Corpseman I have encountered this type before. Fortunately they're actually quite rare. The best you can do is hope that someone else will set an example for this young

Response by SSgt Jackie Swogger made Feb 5 at 2016 7:33 PM

SSgt Jackie Swogger — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 19:33:45 -0500

Aww hell!! Sounds like somebody's little baby feelings keep getting hurt. For Christ's sake you're in the United States Army so suck it up! Isn't that part of the oath of enlistment, to do what your superiors tell you to do?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 8:05 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:05:38 -0500

Learn to spell and punctuate for starters. Pretty simple. Act like an entitled asshole and you'll be treated like one. Work for your place and earn some respect before you demand it.

Response by SP6 Justin Queen made Feb 5 at 2016 8:26 PM

SP6 Justin Queen — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:26:13 -0500

Honestly. Its par for tge course. There are good officers and bad officers. How she says it to you doesnt matter. You can try to talk to her behind the scenes like you did. But you are in the military and getting your feelings butthurt is a civilian thing. The nurse will learn eventually that if she acts like an ass it will get done but you will drag your feet whenever you can. It usually gets better but in all things you will have assholes as bosses and officers are just that.

Response by CWO3 William Hanrahan made Feb 5 at 2016 8:43 PM

CWO3 William Hanrahan — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:43:37 -0500

Call the IG. Can't fix stupid as an E4. You tried... You're first duty is to do know harm, your second in your profession is to obey lawful orders, and your third is to take care of your soldiers. All are encompassing. When an officer abuses their authority, they lose the moral authority and the privilege to command obedience. Believe me as a retired Marine CWO, prior MSgt, I am not push over when it comes to using force and enforcing standards, but rarely did I ever have a Marine Officer behave like a juvenile and when one got a bit squirrely and counseled; most of the time there was a favorable outcome. Your SFC seems to have some nads and tried too. Seems to me that you guys are trying to act like leaders, and you're officers are trying prim donnas.

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made Feb 5 at 2016 9:37 PM

SFC Laurie Schultz — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:37:16 -0500

Working with medical professionals I can tell you it won't change. They get a short course on army life and think they are the cats meow. Call the IG if your command doesn't rectify. Also remember there is a chain of command. If she is not in it you just respectfully tell her with all due respect if she needs something she needs to go to your immediate supervisor.

Response by MCPO Dan O'Reilly made Feb 5 at 2016 10:00 PM

MCPO Dan O'Reilly — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:00:30 -0500

The SGTMAJ needs to provide some instruction to this zero!......SMCM(SW) Ret USN

Response by CMSgt Eric Turner made Feb 5 at 2016 10:48 PM

CMSgt Eric Turner — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:48:43 -0500

Two sides to every story but if it's as bad as you say then you have a genuine case of toxic leadership. Saluting smartly, moving on and the problem perpetuating itself is just going to make it worse. Toxic leaders destroy teams and drive off good people you want to retain. Look to your 1st Sergeant or Sergeant Major. If it's as bad as you say I have no doubt they can "mentor" this Captain. Better yet, if the Captains attitude surfaces with either of them she can learn the difference between rank, leadership and power.

Response by SGT Renee Houston Biswell made Feb 5 at 2016 10:54 PM

SGT Renee Houston Biswell — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:54:45 -0500

With some you just have to respect the rank and position, but you can feel however you want about the person disgracing it. The great thing is nasty individuals always have their behavior reflected back to them. It may not be during your tenure but mark my words this individual will eventually be put into place by the right person at the right time.

Response by PO1 Glenn Colby made Feb 5 at 2016 11:11 PM

PO1 Glenn Colby — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 23:11:43 -0500

Deal with it. It's the Military. Just because you are an acting shift leader you are still an E-4. The constant complaining isn't going to do you any good. Damn, didn't your recruiter tell you that the Military is not all hugs and sensitivity? What exactly is aggressive body language? Did she touch you? No? Then what's the problem? Sounds like somebody needs a stress card.

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Feb 5 at 2016 11:50 PM

1SG Larry Taggart — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 23:50:47 -0500

Spc, I understand your situation. While a SFC in a Brigade SGM position, I had to interact with the Battalion CSM's and task their battalions on a daily basis and no one likes taskings even the Battalion CSM's. I was informed daily by the Battalion CSM's that even though I was filling the position of a E-9 I was not a E-9. Your actions have been correct. I would suggest that you exhaust your NCO channels and give them time to work it before you went to the hospital CDR. But just understand that the issue may not be corrected and learn how to professionally deal with situation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 12:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 00:55:09 -0500

You're not going to like my answer, but you need to read it.

You are enlisted. She is a commissioned officer. You are not equals. Even when you are talking one on one behind closed doors, you are not equals. It does not matter what position you have. It does not matter that you were not doing anything wrong per se to warrant her initial remarks to you. Frankly, she could make it her lifes mission to make you miserable. She could go out of her way to make your life as difficult as possible, be as disrespectful as she desires, essentially do anything within the bounds of the UCMJ that she wants, and there wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it.

You seem to have a completely warped idea of the power structures at play here. Frankly, the way you talked to her would have been grounds for an Article 15 in the units I have been a part of, and rightly so. You need to learn your place, as it is clearly not where you think it is.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 1:21 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 01:21:53 -0500

Write to your Congressman or Congresswoman. It is your Right to do so. Just make sure what you right is the truth.

Response by SSG(P) Ell Pizarek made Feb 6 at 2016 4:09 AM

SSG(P) Ell Pizarek — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 04:09:22 -0500

You are way off base. First of all, respect is not something that you can request or demand, you have to earn it. Since you have been going to the heads of several departments with no success at obtaining the respect that you believe you are entitled, the only thing left is to do your job. You started off talking about how the shift was slow, so you thought that you would do some training. Perhaps that was not the time, and you should have made sure that everything was stocked so that the Captain would not have had to ask you. When your job is to support individuals, groups, or departments, you will earn much more respect by always having them prepared so that they can do their job and care or support others.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 9:06 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 09:06:54 -0500

This is a double edged sword, and I'll play devil's advocate here.

The lack of initiative in junior soldier and young NCOs are at an all time low. So on that, I understand the CPTs frustration. Not that that excuses a lack of professionalism.

On the other hand, AMEDD officers are often direct commission and need to learn the ways of the military.

As a Jr soldier in a E6 slot, take the initiative, and keep a head of the needs of your supervisor. They are ultimately responsible for mentoring you, which should be done in he form of counseling..both positive and negative. Open the conversations, and if they do not mentor you, start a paper NCOER support form and use it to self plan.

Response by MSgt Michael Cannon made Feb 6 at 2016 9:22 AM

MSgt Michael Cannon — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 09:22:27 -0500

Sounds like someone got their feelings hurt. Grow up. You are in the military. The Captain out ranks you and can tell you to do what ever she wants as long as it is legal. If I was the captain and seen this I would have you sweeping the parking lot to put you in your place.

You are one of the biggest reason's I am glad I am out of the military now. Whiny little kids thinking they are on equal grounds with higher ranking officers and SNCO's.

I retired as an E7 from the Air Force, and each time I tried to correct someone that was not in my chain - I got called to the First Shirt's office and forced to apologize for not letting the punks supervisor know about it first.

Response by SGT Sean Tucker made Feb 6 at 2016 9:58 AM

SGT Sean Tucker — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 09:58:13 -0500

??? WOW! Id have to say toughen up,move on-i wonder what your reaction would be if you were ordered to fix bayonet&charge an active pillbox?

Response by SFC Rob Bradshaw made Feb 6 at 2016 10:08 AM

SFC Rob Bradshaw — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 10:08:32 -0500

As with everything there is two sides to an issue. We have your side where you feel as if you were disrespected but we do not have this CPT's side. The issue may have nothing do to with you or your troops however, it may be an issue she sees with consistency and you just happened to be the one to catch someone else's turd coming down the hill. You did what you could to try to address the issue respectfully but as soon as rank is pulled the is no further useful discussion going to happen better to just say roger and move on with the task and address it with your senior NCOs that is in their lane.

Response by PFC John Villarreal made Feb 6 at 2016 10:08 AM

PFC John Villarreal — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 10:08:55 -0500

Follow orders! You are in the military not a country club. I say this as a veteran, not a keyboard warrior. So your CO is an ass, it is not your position as an E-f@#$ing4 to pull her aside and say anything to her about what she says or how she says it. You went to your SFC about your feelings being hurt? Really? This person is a Captain, an officer, you are not even an NCO, and even if you were, you still come to attention and show the officer respect even if the officer is a jerk. Your SFC should have written you up....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 12:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 12:54:53 -0500

I hear and understand your frustration. I have worked as a medic, as a nurse and as a physician assistant. I have seen the different manner in which all three are treated from above and below.

No one should have to endure being disrespected. But remember sometimes we unwillingly participate in the manner in which we are treated. Obviously from your perspective you have done nothing wrong. Chances are if this officer was pulled aside by another office, they may offer a different perspective on what they view as the performance of the medics intersection. Understand as a shift leader, she may be reacting to the behavior of those who work under you, not your actions. And unfortunately as a leader, you are responsible for their actions. So if she has drawn objection with their behavior you will and should hear about it. Probably not in the manner in which she's doing it, but you are ultimately responsible. I'm a big believer that prays should be issued in public and criticism in private. And that that has nothing to do with rank but everything to do with being respectful human.

You will and should hear about it when those who work under you are not performing. Probably not in the manner in which she's doing it, but you are ultimately responsible. I'm a big believer that praise should be issued in public and criticism in private. And that that has nothing to do with rank but everything to do with being respectful human. Welcome to the mantle of leadership. You will be criticized and even punished for the behavior of those who work for you while often not being recognized for the achievements of those who work under you. It's a lot to bear. Continue to hold your military bearing and do your best. Remember that you will not get along with everyone and sometimes we just have to grin and bear it and make the best of the situation.

One less thing to remember about medicine. With or without rank structure it is highly hierarchical. And technical and support staff like medics radiologic technicians and phlebotomists always take the brunt of the work. Physicians and mid-level practitioners who practice directly below them bear the lion share of the responsibility and a heavy workload but can do for much of the other tasks. Unfortunately regardless of rank, nurses are often unfairly dumped upon. Remember the difference between position and rank. Ultimately a nurse it and less she's in command or operating as an officer in charge of resection she is always at the surface of the mid-level practitioners and physician which can be really hard to bear. This officer may be difficult to deal with because someone is dumping on and abusing them. Do your best to reach out, talk to the softserve in private and be willing to be humble and say what is it that's going on and if our performance has slept I'm sorry and asked for this feedback. Also be willing to see things from her perspective being aware that her attitude may be a direct reflection of abuse that she's taking. It is no excuse but just like you she is a human being with feelings and emotions carrying a specific rank but responsibilities as a nurse which often entail continual Service which can be a heavy cross to bear.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 1:20 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:20:12 -0500

IG all the way!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 1:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:39:48 -0500

This nurse is an officer so kudos to keeping your bearing and staying respectful. There is a rank structure and you are bound to follow this officers orders, but it sounds like the rank has gone to the head here. My suggestion is to have this nurses rater and senior rater have a sit down and counseling. This is an example of toxic leadership and a sense of over entitlement. It does not seem that your concerns were taken seriously by this officer and that rank and position. Is all that matters. If this person is not your first line supervisor then I would suggest you just do what is asked, report harassment or maltreatment (I think it's article 93 of ucmj but I may be wrong). If you do the right thing and do your best then you remain in the right. This will eventually catch up to this officer even if nothing is done at your current post. And don't forget.....you also have your chaplain, JAG, and IG. They can at least answer questions for you.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 1:48 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 13:48:23 -0500

You don't have to be junior enlisted to get disrespected by an officer, and that officer can easily be a careerist who knows the military rather than a shake-and-bake specialty officer (MED, JAG). There are those O-grades who are good leaders, and there are those O-grades who are in it for themselves and the position, and will ignore the accomplishments of anyone they outrank. I'm a promotable CW2 and my ex-commander will still refer to me only by my last name, and treat me as if I were a child despite my acting as the adult and officer that I am. Life isn't fair, suck it up.

Response by SGT Bill Robison made Feb 6 at 2016 2:26 PM

SGT Bill Robison — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 14:26:19 -0500

Work your way up the chain. Nurses think they are the NCOs of the medical field. If she wasn't to busy she could have stocked the carts or taken over the training you were conducting.

Response by A1C Lisa Casserly made Feb 6 at 2016 2:31 PM

A1C Lisa Casserly — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 14:31:51 -0500

Well, I am not sure where you are. I have spent large quantities of time at Walter Reed in Bethesda in the past 3 years after my daughter was severely injured in Afghanistan. Not the old W.R., the new one. And, I have absolutely adored the staff on 4 East. I would be deeply disturbed to find out that the staff (officers) were treating the enlisted people like that. If I saw such a thing, I WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL NEEDED TO FIX THE PROBLEM. This is not just bad for the morale of the enlisted people, its HORRIBLE for the patients. If you feel you have exhausted your options, then yes. TAKE IT TO THE HOSPITAL COMMANDER. You don't have to go in with guns blazing and being confrontational. But do make sure you have written down examples of this behavior, with dates and times if possible (your CYA folder) and ask what else you could do to fix this.

Response by SSG Marcus Brothers made Feb 6 at 2016 3:32 PM

SSG Marcus Brothers — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:32:52 -0500

Before I go throwing two cents in, has your team done or fail to do anything that merits the treatment. If not, and she is genuinely being unreasonable, talk to the hospital CSM. You may not get the attention of the Hospital Commander, but the CSM has his ear almost all the time.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Feb 6 at 2016 3:47 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:47:49 -0500

That is the lot of a specialist my friend. Eat it and drive on. Thinking about it or worse confronting an officer about it will get you a butt chewing.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Feb 6 at 2016 4:15 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:15:52 -0500

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member There are a few issues here that need to be addressed separately.

The first is the actual order the nurse gave you. Although it could have been worded more tactfully, she did not swear or use derogatory language toward either of you. She saw you at the computer while there were other duties not yet accomplished. It doesn't even matter, frankly, if she knew you were orienting the new person to the charting system, if she prioritized the work differently she had the authority to order you to change your actions. If she had been abusive in her language it would be a different issue, but she was not. She was abrasive, which is different. You voiced your concerns, which she chose to ignore. As others have pointed out, you will work for obnoxious, abrasive leaders with whom you do not get along, but you will be required to work for them. That is why the rank structure and regulations spell it out so well - if we simply obeyed people because they were so nice to us and we agreed with everything they told us we wouldn't need that.

Next is the issue of your position and to whom you should be bringing your concerns. You mention you are the Shift Leader and you have brought your concerns to the ward NCOIC and to the DCN (or DCHS, whichever your hospital uses), and are thinking of going to the Hospital Commander about issues of what you perceive as officers disrespecting enlisted Soldiers. Where are your Chief Wardmaster, Chief Medical NCO (SGM), and Hospital CSM in all of this? Sometimes these positions overlap somewhat, but there should be at least one CSM there that you haven't addressed. The CSM is the one responsible for enlisted concerns at that hospital, and you should be speaking with him or her about this, before having spoken to the DCN, actually. And if there is a separate Chief Wardmaster that is not the SFC to which you referred (which there probably is), you should have spoken to him or her first. You need some mentorship on how the hospital functions. Because while you are the Shift Leader, you are the Shift Leader for the enlisted staff. You do NOT have authority over nurses, and you are probably considered to be in the Department of Nursing/Health Services, same as the nurse, which means she is your superior officer. This is different for those in Ancillary Services, so don't compare all enlisted personnel. If you aren't aware of the complete org chart of a hospital, you need someone to mentor you about this at this point in your career, because it is unlike other military units.

And last is what to do if you STILL feel you have a valid concern that has not been addressed, either with respect or patient safety. Take it to your CSM. If he or she takes action but you see it persisting, let him or her KNOW, because he or she may feel it has been corrected if you don't. If they tell you it is a dead issue and you still feel it is a problem, see your Hospital Commander under the open door policy. Do the same thing about letting him or her know if he or she institutes a corrective action but you don't see results. However, if nothing is done you have options; but make sure you have valid issues because if you don't you will be known as someone for whom the command has done everything they can to teach, coach, and mentor to address concerns but you refuse to accept that mentorship.
If they ARE valid, here is where you address them. If you feel you have a valid patient safety concern that has not been addressed, your hospital has a patient safety committee, and the minutes are a matter of record that will be inspected by The Joint Commission (the hospital accrediting body) so a written complaint to them may resolve it within the hospital. Otherwise, you CAN take it to the Regional level, either to the Regional patient safety officer or the Regional Commander. Be prepared for the level of scrutiny that will ensue, for you and your entire facility if you do this. If you feel you have a valid issue of lack of respect for enlisted staff, you can contact your Regional CSM. Again, be prepared for the level of scrutiny that will ensue. Or, you can contact your EOA (he or she will be at your Region unless you are at an RMC, then you will probably still have one at the Regional level as well). Although this is NOT based on a protected category issue, you can ask if the EOA will help you with mediation, since they are trained mediators. They are also responsible for monitoring and reporting on command climate issues, and you can let him or her know how you feel it is impacting the command climate. The other agency you can contact is the IG, but they deal with issues which violate regulations, and this does not appear to be the case either. However, again, they along with EO serve as eyes and ears of the command. So if you have an IG or EO SAV scheduled by the Region or MEDCOM, ask to speak to the EOA or IG conducting the SAV. If you go this route they will not mention your name if you do not want them to, but your command may very well know who raised the concern just because you have been raising the same concern repeatedly, unless others have the same issue. And lets face it, if you are the ONLY one who tells the EO and IG staff, when they give everyone the opportunity to do so anonymously during an SAV, the issue may not be the command.

I am a former MEDCOM EOA, and Health Center SGM (the position wasn't made a CSM position until after I left, but it was the same position), and, just like every other senior enlisted person on here I came up through the ranks. (Although, in full disclosure I did my first 9 years in tactical signal units, and most of my time in tactical medical units, so the atmosphere was somewhat different and I had to make adjustments to medical and fixed facility units, as we all make adjustments to EVERY new situation.) Just giving you my background so you can consider it when deciding whether or not to accept this mentorship - because that is the spirit in which I offer it.

Best of luck as you grow in your career. I urge you to pick your battles wisely and remember your nurses are growing in theirs as well. There is the saying "nurses eat their young" for a reason; they have it MUCH worse than the enlisted do in most cases in terms of how they are treated by their leadership and how they are mentored.

Response by CPO Ross Cowell made Feb 6 at 2016 5:02 PM

CPO Ross Cowell — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 17:02:48 -0500

If you have received an unsatisfactory response for you inquiry, You do have the authority to take it further up the chain of command, But do follow the chain of command, do not jump. Further in your letter, you said nurses not nurse. So maybe now they feel they have been disrespected. It is a fine line to tow for sure

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Feb 6 at 2016 5:26 PM

Sgt Daniel V. — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 17:26:03 -0500

Let me preface this by saying I have been in your position... One in which I was asked to undertake the position rated for a rank higher than mine. Now take this advice with a grain of salt.
You have two options.
1. You can continue your current strategy of advancing upon a perceived injustice up and down the chain of command. This will yield absolutely no results that will positively affect your career for the post at which you are serving including all those around you.
2. The second option is to understand that leadership is about controlled chaos. The military is an environment in which chaos is our business. You are in a command and position in which the chaos is more apparent. If you were to look at this from an outside point of view you are the weak link in the chain of command right now. It is incumbent upon you to do the right thing. First and foremost apologize to every single officer whose time you've wasted. Then you need to gather the enlisted personnel in your charge and you need to explain to them that from this point on they will quickly and quietly abide by every lawful order issued by the wonderful staff the you are working alongside. You must understand that it is not about how you feel or anything that you perceive. It is about accomplishing a mission and using your leadership your position and your men and women to the best of their ability. You are ranked in your position do not automatically grant you the respect you seek. The respect you seek will come when you begin to do your job to the best of your ability. Stop crying and earn what you seek.

Response by SPC Greg Cowen made Feb 6 at 2016 5:58 PM

SPC Greg Cowen — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 17:58:17 -0500

Embrace the suck is my opinion; if you and your soldiers are doing something and an officer tells you to get on something else, get on it!! You're in the military, you're not gonna like what your superiors are gonna say or the way it's said; get your head right and drive on

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 7:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 19:28:14 -0500

If they can respect the person and disrespect the position always along with good order and discipline by all means file a complaint. Let the poor fit rep humble her. If you're having that problem so do others. Allow her seniors to show her the light.

Response by TSgt David Scott made Feb 6 at 2016 7:36 PM

TSgt David Scott — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 19:36:37 -0500

OEEO complaint, they will investigate your problem and trust me even if no immediate action is taken that capt will think twice about disrespecting you again

Response by SN Peter Stella made Feb 6 at 2016 7:55 PM

SN Peter Stella — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 19:55:30 -0500

I think your "Superior Officer" thinks she is a Captain in the Navy not the Army, at her level of command and the environment she is in she is acting out of place, completely out of place. I hate to inform her but her "Rank" about enlisted has absolutely nothing to do with command and is mostly given to her for her level of education. If the shit hit the fan she would be following the orders of the lowest level NCO on a ship her rank is useless, she has no more command in battle than a Judge Advocate would or someone in supply etc., its easy to tell what officers have real combat authority and deserve it in the Navy its what they have on thier sleve a "Star" indicating line officer. Your Nurse should know this- Unfortunately your a medic and in the Army. When I went to a naval medical facility medical officers always acted like and understood that there rank had nothing to do with COMMAND, of course I have been out of the Navy for 30 years so it might be different.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 8:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 20:40:02 -0500

If you were sitting their training that new medic you could have told her what you were doing. If that nurse knew what you were doing with the new soldier she is what you call toxic leadership! If it continues take it high but remember, if you don't let her know what you're doing and she/he thinks something else, it's you mistake to not form the nurse about what's going on at that moment!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 9:05 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 21:05:22 -0500

Lots of chatter on this topic...so I'll toss my 2 cents into the tip jar unabashedly.
First of all there is too much of of this misuse/misunderstanding of what is an isn't respect or disrespect. Officers give orders and enlisted soldiers execute, period. Short of being told to do something unlawful, you really don't have a leg to stand on in your being hurt tone the officer had in giving you an order. In this case it's best you drink water, and move out. Learn the leadership style of this particular officer and either learn to avoid, work with or anticipate.
I wonder what the duties and responsibilities of a Shift Leader are? It sounds to me like you might be confused also. I cannot remember any time an officer had to remind me of my duties or my failure to complete them as an NCO. If you are in fact promotable and have an E6 position, you'd better get to executing your duties at that level. If you fail to allow officers the time to accomplish their duties, then you will get no respect or confidence from them that you can complete your own duties. Maybe you want to consult the NCO Creed?
Lastly, pick your battles. Her tone doesn't sound like anything offensive to me. If her verbiage or tone upset you, I suggest you grow some thicker skin. The Army is a harsh place, even in a soft MOS like yours. Don't put yourself in a position to get told to do something you're supposed to do and you won't be in the position to get your feeling hurt again.
Respect isn't something you get just because, it's something you earn. Getting a set of stripes is only going to increase your work load, hope you're ready for it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 10:01 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:01:11 -0500

Send me a private email with information and I promise you I will have thiae officers unfuck themselves from the inside out.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 10:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:17:31 -0500

Flip the script, there is a lot of talk about how the Officer should have addressed, how the SPC should have reacted. Where is the nurses frustration coming from? I will put money on frustration developed from care of patients. an empty blanket warmer means cold patients, upset family members, and potential medical complications due to inclimate conditions to the patients needs. As a shift leader, supply falls on your shoulders. Would you allow the IV supply run dry in a critical care setting? Taking the time to train your new Soldier is definitely needed, but in a hospital setting, unfortunately training takes a back seat to the clinic functioning properly. Was the nurse a direct commission? We don't know. Regardless, medical professionals are brought into the Army for their skill set, and don't go through the same leadership training an infantry platoon leader does. I have been on both sides of the spectrum, hospital medic wondering why the officers were so ate up, then I was selected for AMEDD recruiting. I now understand why. Keep in mind that from nurse level up (really medic level up), these officers are highly skilled. The selection process is rigorous and extremely competitive. The nurse officer has to be good at what she does, or she wouldn't be where she is. Not to say that some don't slip through the cracks, but most are top notch.

Response by PO3 Dr. Todd Marquez, PT, DPT, MA made Feb 6 at 2016 10:19 PM

PO3 Dr. Todd Marquez, PT, DPT, MA — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:19:31 -0500

Officers have to wear different hats at different times. Sometimes they need to wear the "rank" hat and sometimes they need to wear the "job" hat. Unfortunately, when they choose to wear the rank hat there isn't much you can do about it. As long as orders are lawful they must be carried out. There is a way to address subordinates and JOs don't really understand anything about real leadership just yet. Know this though, her shit skills as a leader will follow her into the civilian sector if she doesn't figure it out before she separates. In the real world RNs don't get much respect from the staff. There is a strict hierarchy in medicine and the RN is just above the CNA. She will have a hard lesson to learn at some point. Keep faith. There are great clinicians out there.

Response by SSgt Michael Campbell made Feb 6 at 2016 10:23 PM

SSgt Michael Campbell — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:23:04 -0500

can't do nothing to the capt they say? wait and slash her tires when she not looking would make ya feel better.

Response by SFC Zohn Tennyson made Feb 6 at 2016 11:05 PM

SFC Zohn Tennyson — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 23:05:22 -0500

No advice; just consideration and puzzlement as to why you would ask. If you're an E-4, then you should at this point realize that sometimes people over you are assholes, and there is always someone over you. It's simply a "life challenge". You'll be all right ; drive on.

Response by 1SG Patrick McKelvey made Feb 6 at 2016 11:42 PM

1SG Patrick McKelvey — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 23:42:52 -0500

I see a lot of E6s and below here commenting on the who and how and wherefores. Here's some advice for the SPC (P). STFU and stock the carts and warming blanket carts BEFORE you start training another task, whining to your chain of command about the CPT "disrespect" is a sure fire way to engender the 1SGs ire...if he or she is aware of the CPTs attitude then it is up to them to alter attitudes and team work and build unit cohesion and NOT an E4 correcting the officer corps. And for all of you talking out the side of your necks about the Medical Corps not being "real" officers here's my advice to you, STFU and do it right quick! You only respect officers who in your eyes are "worthy"? WTF asked you for your version of who does and does not "earn" their rank? God Bless the NCO or SPC (P) [what sort of silliness is this? you are an SPC until you are an SGT leave the (P) noise off your tagline] that was stupid enough to pull that sort of crap in a unit I was in, even if I was walking by and was NOT in your unit and heard that sort of SHIT I would as a 1SG snatch you up by your neck and tear you a new one. It undermines the organization as a whole to have jr NCOs walking around announcing who does and does not deserve respect in their opinion...it give our enlisted soldiers carte blanche to act as they see fit towards an Officer based on what they think. As for the CPT in question she had a point, the medical supplies were not properly stocked, please stop telling an E4 how to correct the situation by confronting an officer, not his job or yours. STFU and get the basics done and THEN go train your subordinate. Preparation and expertise goes a lot farther in creating trust than whining every time you get called out. And SPC (P)...not the last time you will get your feelings hurt or take an ass chewing you didn't deserve, suck it up cupcake and put a little steel in your backbone and attention to detail in your job performance and I assure you others will see it and call the CPT if she is wrong.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 12:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 00:15:53 -0500

If it were me I would run it up the chain and if you get nowhere there are many other avenues you can take. You can lodge an IG complaint. You could write your congressman or congresswoman. People may scoff at the latter but trust me I have gotten results one way or another.

Response by SGT Leon Riege made Feb 7 at 2016 12:45 AM

SGT Leon Riege — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 00:45:42 -0500

you can always try another mos were your not having to worry about heated blankets

Response by SPC Darrin Hart made Feb 7 at 2016 1:05 AM

SPC Darrin Hart — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 01:05:06 -0500

From an old 10th Mountain Division Artilleryman......Are you one of those time out generation brats? For Christ sake, it is a direct order from a superior officer. If they do not strike you or shoot you it really does not matter How you FEEL about ANYTHING!!!....It does not matter on god dam bit! Your lucky your ass wasn't in the field with an Infantry or Artillery Unit when you pulled that enlisted touchy-feely crap.... Your ass would have FALLEN DOWN REPEATEDLY (gotten your ass handed to you by the CSM for showing that level of disrespect). No matter the individual wearing the uniform, you MUST RESPECT the UNIFORM at all times regardless of your pansy ass FEELINGS....for shits sake, is this what we are pumping out of basic and AIT? Why don't you just put heels and lipstick on then go watch Oprah....

Response by A1C Stanley Kolakowski made Feb 7 at 2016 4:11 AM

A1C Stanley Kolakowski — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 04:11:57 -0500

Two things bug the daylights out of me in your post:
1. "My SFC on three seperate occasions over the span of 9 months that the nurses have been treating the medics with disrespect."
2. "I have written a patient safety report stating that patient care is suffering because the nurses are not willing to pick up some of thr slack when we are busy"

On two, I could be talking out of my arse - I mean "way outside my expertise field" - but filing what sounds like a fairly major and formal complaint essentially asking a "department above yours" to "do your job during downtimes for them" isn't exactly the best way to... endear... yourself (and your staff) to them.
To put it into a situation your might be familiar with, it'd be like maintenance filing a complaint that you're not waxing the floors "during your downtime" because of overwork in their department.

On one, how did you get to the point of being able to file 3 complaints over 9 months? Were you a "proto-E6" for all 3? Or were you complaining when you had a boss (ie, the previous shift leader(s)) and carried on the complaints after being given the task of shift leader?

As to advice, consider this:
Are you, consciously or subconsciously, perpetrating a "failed" belief system as demonstrated to you by your previous shift leader(s) - and the nurses are... let's politely call it... attempting to guide you into what is actually expected out of you and your department?
From my personal experience - I once managed a convenience store for a few months while the "regular" manager was on extended leave. I walked in and saw the assistant manager training a new employee in the "rarely performed tasks" of store operation while essential daily tasks were undone. When I confronted her (after getting the newbie off onto the daily tasks and therefore out of earshot), I was advised that "I was wrong in breaking up her plans, that's how they always did it".
At which point I "pulled rank" and reminded her of my... albeit temporary... posting and told her that as far as I was concerned no "secondary training" was more important than performing the "essential daily tasks" of the operation, and that she would have adequate time to perform the training - whether it was "under live fire" or in the full-on practice-only setting - once the essential tasks were complete and definitely if she assisted in completing the tasks he already demonstrated mastery of.
I'd like to think that perhaps I showed her what I thought was a slightly more efficient manner of training, let's just say that I never had that problem again in the few months I was there (ie, she adjusted instead of complained)...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 4:39 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 04:39:05 -0500

Ask yourself, has her behavior made the situation toxic? Has morale been truly degraded? If not, then you have to accept that sometimes people, even leaders, are not nice. I do not condone the CPT's poor approach and lack of tact, but you can be the "Top Cover" for your Soldiers. I think going to the Hospital Commander may be jumping to many levels. You should have a Senior Clinical NCO (MSG or SGM) and a Deputy Chief Nurse that would be over-watching clinical operations. I do caution that if you want to be heard to go with an open-mind and only address the issue. If you are complaining to everybody about the situation in the clinic, to include subordinates, then you need to stop that action immediately. Seek solutions towards the problems, create checklists and supply check rotations. Check to see if any of your Battle-buddies are doing the wrong thing, instead of working. Unfortunately, if an Officer chews some butt and is not very tactful, then you "Salute the flag and drive on". I've worked with leaders who let the rank define them instead of the other way around. Don't internalize their behavior, protect your Soldiers and make sure you lead by example.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Feb 7 at 2016 9:26 AM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 09:26:21 -0500

Understand there are low class individuals in both Enlisted and Officer uniforms. Some people are just miserable, worthless souls regardless of what job they hold. You may have unfortunately discovered one in your chain of command. Perhaps there was a lead up to her outburst and that should be explored. Often something odd like that is a symptom of something else hidden from view, and you are only seeing the tip of it. At any rate remain calm, and kind. Both are qualities that serve you well in situations like that. If none of that works, remember this. Either you or the troubled individual will transfer eventually, and if you are clever, you will schedule your leave to start the day that one retuns. An entire month or longer without having to deal with that can be wonderfully refreshing.

Response by TSgt Chuck King made Feb 7 at 2016 10:12 AM

TSgt Chuck King — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:12:17 -0500

Always keep MFR'S (memo for record).

Response by Cpl Denis Dearborn made Feb 7 at 2016 10:40 AM

Cpl Denis Dearborn — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:40:47 -0500

Simple, seen as how going to an officer about another officer is about worthless as they have their hidden code, 'officers protect their own" not to mention that this generation of pompous idiots seem to think because they hold a 4 year degree in puppet making and know how to write a paper in APA format, that this somehow makes them superior to others, do what I had many of the Marines who came to me for help concerning pompous officers and senior enlisted who needed to be put in their place, go outside your COC. Going to a congress member of your hoe state is the best. Tell them exactly what is going on, and what I mean is, tell them about how you have used your COC and followed proper UCMJ guidelines with zero results. I would also document every single word and attitude of said officers. Create your own record this way if an investigation is launched by said congressman, you will have all your ducks in a row and the pompous officers, as usual will only have their rank to hide behind and guess what, that rank means nothing when congress is involved and Congress has the right and ability to strip them of that rank and to basically fire the officer. I would also find out if that Nurse is licence as an RN, PA etc... if she/he is, report them to the licencing board who can then determine if this person is even capable of being able to carry themselves in the professional manner expected when they take their oath as a health care provider. The sad reality is, good Officers are very few and far between. Just look at most of them who have so many metals that you would think they served under Patton and took on an entire Tank regiment single handed and defeated all the tanks with little more than a ball pen hammer. Yeah, that right, Officer write their own awards in most cases, they do not earn 99% of what they have hanging off their uniforms and for them to acknowledge the sacrifice of the enlisted under them? HA! Yeah right. I had a butter-bar come up to me back when I served and he started to bark. The sad thing was, my bootlaces had more time in service than this idiot did. He tried to give me an order and I told him I could not follow that order seen as how I had already been given an order by my actual CO who just happened to be a Maj. I told him "respectfully" that he needed to go back into his ACed GP Tent and brush up on combat operations before he ended up getting Marines killed and he didn't much like that. In the end I didn't know that my Sgt Maj was around the corner and basically took this butter-bar ass apart and rebuilt it so that he could see himself hauling ass to save himself the embarrassment from the tears rolling down his face after having a 30 + year Vietnam era Marine take him apart and all that because he wanted to show his pimple faced ass off due to the little gold bars on his collar. The reason for that little story is to show you that most officers are built up in OCS, Navy Academy or wherever they go, as being better than the enlisted. When you get a pimple faced kid fresh out of college or, some arrogant female nurse who thinks her ass smells wonderful but fails to treat the staff in a professional manner, that simply shows you that not only in civilian police departments are they hiring unqualified people who do not deserve to have a badge let alone a gun, but that the same goes for the US Military in selecting officers. You could only pray that you have a CWO who is in charge but that is fare and few between as well. CWO's know where they came from and understand that troop welfare is essential to having a top notch command. I served under this Capt. named Sharkey. This guy was one of the best Officers i ever served under and I'll tell you what, this man was all about troop welfare. At the end, there wasn't a single Marine who would not have jumped in front of a bullet for this guy and it was all due to his making damn sure that we were all taken care of. He also didn't play games and expected us to perform and carry ourselves as Marines which we all did. I hope this helps you with my mini novel but is yo need any direction concerning contacting your congressmen etc... hit me up and I'll be more than happy to help you out. Oh yeah, nothing can be done to you for going to congress either. It is your right to contact them about anything and if anyone tries to threaten or scare you, simply document it and report it to that congressman.

Response by 1SG Gregory Campbell made Feb 7 at 2016 10:49 AM

1SG Gregory Campbell — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:49:13 -0500

Why did she have to find you to tell you that you were derelict in your job? Maybe she had already waited for you or your Joes to re-stock the shelves and was fed up. Your response should have been, "Roger that, ma'am" followed by action..... At a later point you could speak with her on your perceived problem.

Suck it up.... Do your job.

A Specialist in a SSG position is awesome IF you are performing. You were not - she had to tell you to do your job. That's why you had a problem.

Response by MSgt Christopher Schoen made Feb 7 at 2016 11:48 AM

MSgt Christopher Schoen — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:48:43 -0500

Really? The old "here is a your box of Crayons" comes to mind when I read this.

Response by SGT Rob Colbert made Feb 7 at 2016 12:17 PM

SGT Rob Colbert — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 12:17:21 -0500

It's no different in civilian life. Nurses think medics are benieth them even though we can perform higher skills than they can. Personally I think it's a power trip that should be addressed immediately. You did the right thing by pulling her aside. I had a similar situation with an Army Major that was a doctor. I basically told him he was not respected by any of his peers or subordinates. It's not what you say but how you say it. The ndxt day he was a total different person to the rest of the staff. By the way I was also a Spc at the time. You have to respect the rank but not the person. A lot of officers forget this since they were not prior service enlisted first.

Response by 1LT David Bonner made Feb 7 at 2016 1:36 PM

1LT David Bonner — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 13:36:10 -0500

Maybe the problem is you! If you are an E4 in an E6 slot, I would think you would have been a squared away soldier, highly competent and proactive in someone's eyes? So why are the warmers and carts empty? Will the soldier's computer skills keep the next patient warm? maybe you should be kicking yourself in the ass for failing to be proactive! Suck it up! Learn from it! You are making yourself look weak in the eyes of your Senior leadership by whining! Just my opinion!

Response by Maj Rob Drury made Feb 7 at 2016 1:57 PM

Maj Rob Drury — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 13:57:22 -0500

First, I'll answer your question:

Put on your big boy panties, get over it, and move on.

Now, I'll expand a bit:

You're a soldier, a medical officer is not. A medical officer is not a line officer. He or she is given a token commission in recognition of special education, training, and specialization. They are technicians given special position, recognition, and often compensation to perform very specific military support functions. Unlike line officers, they are barred by regulation from holding or exercising authority outside their specific chains of command or specialties. Any line officer can approach you with full authority to send you to the barber shop because your hair is out of regs; a medical officer cannot, unless he or she is in your chain. In a combat situation with casualties, the senior ranking officer present is in charge, unless that officer is a medical, legal, or chaplain officer, in which case that officer has zero authority.

Frankly, medical officers, and nurses in particular, are often very sensitive and insecure about this. They are not qualified military officers, and either they realize it, or they do not possess the comprehension of military officership to realize it. This being said, you are a subordinate. Maintain your professionalism, do what you're told, and carry on.

Response by PO3 Richard Alexander made Feb 7 at 2016 3:10 PM

PO3 Richard Alexander — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:10:18 -0500

I don't think you should have asked the Captain to show your shift personnel respect. You should have simply done your job and let it go at that. Be thankful that your complaints are limited just to some perceived disrespect; I've seen far worse.

Response by SGT Jason Mester made Feb 7 at 2016 3:38 PM

SGT Jason Mester — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:38:26 -0500

It would be nice to just walk up and give this person old school wall to wall counseling but thats not recommended. I also feel only a select few would get the humor of seeing a spec-4 try that with a captain.
Jokes and jests aside, this is thru and thru a prevailing issue in the Army or military in general. You as lower enlisted are going to be entrusted with positions of authority above your pay grade NOT your ability to handle them. You MUST understand that your pay grade does not denote your ability to handle the situation. I myself was a PFC/E3 and put in an E5/E6 slot and had a petty squabble with a E4 because she didnt want to take orders from me and all had to do with KP duty! You are going to run into those issues though and how you handle them will determine how your senior NCOs and officers view you as a competent and confident leader. For issues with officers, the best thing I can suggest is asking to speak with them with your most senior NCO such as your first sgt or their commanding officer and point out that you were 'hired' on for the position even though your pay grade is not what the slot calls for. Go forward with respect and military discipline and do so without sounding off like a whiny little brat that got butthurt all the time. If this officer is in a different department and literally a lateral post to yours on the billets then they need to respect your position and you as a person whether they like it or not. They ought to no matter what the pecking order is really but for some all they see is rank not the actual job listing you hold. At that point it is akin to respecting the president as the position entails in spite of your political leanings. I do not speak of Obama only on that one. Some have power trips especially those that think they need to push around the lower enlisted. Some have the mentality that they are judged based on their plumbing, so they must over compensate it some how. Whatever the reason, that is not really a concern to you. Brush it off and do your tasks first. If stocking a blanket warmer is not your task then find the person who is responsible for it and have them do it. While in the meetings, I suggest you mention this as well. Having worked in a hospital environment myself, both military and civilian, that's the best course...
Do not be confrontational and do not take it personal. When you can, appropriately broach the subject and state plainly that there are staff dedicated to such tasks and it is your job to ensure other tasks are completed. In my experience people especially in such professions tend to grab the first warm body they see to handle a deficiency. Now if a particular officer is the issue, go with my initial suggestion and follow it up the chain of command but do so with your own chain in mind. Good luck!

Response by SPC Katrina Zickwolf made Feb 7 at 2016 3:54 PM

SPC Katrina Zickwolf — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:54:03 -0500

I ran the arms room as a Specialist, had more than a few NCO's try to disrespect me like that, I recommend psy-ops...you really should work on your death stare. I found their fear of bodily harm worked in my favor. Never ever had to actually swing, but their realization that I was kill-trained and exercising my restraint proved very handy, and there was never a recorded incident.

Response by SPC Thomas Tran made Feb 7 at 2016 3:57 PM

SPC Thomas Tran — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 15:57:05 -0500

Soldiers these days. Suck it up and drive on. If you want respect than you should of joined the Air Force. As long as she isn't telling you to do something illegal, than just do it with out the pussifying.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 4:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:04:41 -0500

As frustrating as the situation is, she is an officer and you are a specialist. There is nothing that says orders need be given in a polite manner :/ I know where you're coming from though, I'm not allowed to work at the clinic anymore because of a doc who called me unprofessional for asking him why he kept blowing a patient off with profiles instead of rooting out the underlying cause of their issues. Trust me, you don't want to have a tag like "unprofessional" following you lol Just do what she says, no matter how she says it.

Response by Maj Lenore Cappelluti made Feb 7 at 2016 4:11 PM

Maj Lenore Cappelluti — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:11:31 -0500

Respect for all
Team members is necessary for a cohesive unit the Capt sounds insecure in the position and should be addressed as to leadership role

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 5:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 17:19:58 -0500

Aaaand this is why people make fun of hospital medics. My advice to you: considering transitioning out before you PCS to the line.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 5:46 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 17:46:03 -0500

I'm a Navy Officer, I have found that our Medical Officers do the same. I have even snapped on one. The problem is most in the Navy are Direct Commission and lack leadership training. Meaning a 2-week course upon commission on how to read an LES and other basic things. They don't get the training Academy or ROTC gives. They "try" to be leaders but lack the skills of being one. -LCDR, USN

Response by Sgt Steven Beal made Feb 7 at 2016 6:40 PM

Sgt Steven Beal — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:40:31 -0500

I'm pretty sure an E-6 Medic has more experience than most Captains... sounds like this is a simple "power trip" to me. When the shit hits the fan, who's in charge then?

Response by AN Chris Debie made Feb 7 at 2016 6:55 PM

AN Chris Debie — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 18:55:32 -0500

As a RN (CRNA) myself in a civilian hospital, I can tell you this is still going to happen if you go to work at a civilian hospital. I wouldnt dare treat my techs like this..but there are a lot of RN'S who would. Go to the XO/CO and see what he/she says..but address this issue as you are looking for advice..not "tatle telling" on him/her.

Response by MAJ Daniel Flynn made Feb 7 at 2016 8:18 PM

MAJ Daniel Flynn — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 20:18:14 -0500

I'd let it go. Willing to bet she trained at Walter Reed. Since nurses are in competition for leadership positions, they treat doctors like shit too. You're not alone and as hospital commanders they are real fuck-ups.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:26:06 -0500

You should go to the hospital SGM first and if nothing happens, then take it to the commander.

Response by TSgt Rob Schultz made Feb 7 at 2016 10:53 PM

TSgt Rob Schultz — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:53:02 -0500

Smack 'em.

Response by PO3 Zaragoza Moreno made Feb 7 at 2016 11:11 PM

PO3 Zaragoza Moreno — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 23:11:10 -0500

Chain of command is always the first course of action. However if that gets you nowhere always say this. With all due respect kiss my ass.

Response by SFC Niles Heggie made Feb 8 at 2016 12:22 AM

SFC Niles Heggie — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 00:22:26 -0500

What was the response from your Supervisors? Did they talk with the Cpt. in an attempt to handle the situation? Do you feel that you have their support? One of those whom you have spoaken may have taken action. Document all unprofessional actions the Cpt. does, if you without support from your Chain of Command take this to the Commander he or she will want to know whom you have spoken to in act attempt to handle this situation act to the lowest level possible. Stay professional, stay out of the Cpt.'s way. If you feel you don't have the support of those above you, then you probably don't. Stand back, you're probably not the only one the Cpt. has intruded on. The Army has it's ways of taking care of trouble! Keep up with your notes about the Cpt. if asked one day, if you know anything? Then bring it out but not before then.

Response by CPO Lenny Orth made Feb 8 at 2016 3:54 AM

CPO Lenny Orth — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 03:54:03 -0500

Most supervisors suck. But it's a different world to me that an Enlisted would question the tone of any direction from an Officer. Do your job, be professional and try to minimize interactions with that and all other crappy supervisors. Of course they are going to take your proactivity as a sign of their superior supervisory skills. Whatever. Life sucks. Welcome to it.

Response by SGT Joseph Earp made Feb 8 at 2016 4:34 AM

SGT Joseph Earp — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 04:34:07 -0500

Glad I'm ot and was Infantry but in your case and MOS there are always those officers who no matter what will be like that. Sadly the new Army is too PC to allow anything that may change the attitude of the Captain and I doubt that any paperwork done about it will actually help diffuse the Captain's attitude so it ay the one of the times you have to suck it up and drive on just do as asked until one of you gets PCS orders.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 5:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 05:28:02 -0500

You can always challenge her to a fist fight after work. Or if you're a lover and not a fighter, a dance off in an abandoned warehouse would be acceptable.
Better yet suck it up, drink water and drive on.

Response by PO1 William Mims made Feb 8 at 2016 7:47 AM

PO1 William Mims — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 07:47:28 -0500

Officers like this are why I loved having a 10 pound hand sledge in my shop inventory! (J/K...maybe!)

On a serious note, you should have covered the issues she addressed, spoken to her on the side afterwards, and then gone to your NCO chain with it. As a retired mid-level NCO, the care and feeding of JO's is one of our secondary jobs, although I know it is a different situation in your MOS/field (I beat airplanes with hammers for a living), you do not, as one person stated, want to "set her up for failure"; that reflects negatively on you as a professional soldier and a medic. Take it in stride, address it UP the chain properly, and continue to provide the best possible care to your patients and training to your troops....because sometimes, you just can't fix stupid.

Even with a 10 pound hand sledge.

Response by SGT Montana Crawford made Feb 8 at 2016 8:44 AM

SGT Montana Crawford — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 08:44:59 -0500

I was in a similar position as a Spc (p) shift leader. We had some amazing nurses, and some nurses who treated us like the team towel boys. Unfortunately, unless you can prove that this behavior directly affects patient care, you're up a creek.
My advice, suck it up, be tactful, and don't let your frustration lose you your (p) status

Response by CPL Ben Garcia made Feb 8 at 2016 10:06 AM

CPL Ben Garcia — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:06:13 -0500

When I was in the military in a some what situation like yours if I wasn't listened to I would go over the nco/ officers head. The nco/officer didn't like it but I was listened to even after an ass chewing. Sometimes the rank of senior NCOs and officers some times go's to there head.

Response by SFC Mark Johnson made Feb 8 at 2016 10:12 AM

SFC Mark Johnson — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:12:06 -0500

Call the LTC and if nothing happens call the IG

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 10:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 10:24:36 -0500

There are two relevant questions which need to be addressed:

The first question is as follows: was she actually disrespectful or did you perceive something which wasn't there? There's a phenomena known as the Horn/Halo effect which acts as a lens through which we interpret others' actions. If we think that a person likes us or we like that person, we tend to overlook the things we dislike about their actions (we see an idealized version of the person rather than the person himself/herself--it's as though our interpretation is that they are an angel sporting a halo rather than a human who has successes and failures). If we think that the person dislikes us or we dislike that person, we tend to overlook the things we would like about their actions (we see a fiend rather than the person himself/herself). Even being aware of this effect, sometimes it's extremely difficult to take the step back to actually be objective. However, it is absolutely critical that we as soldiers learn to see people as they really are. If you overestimate or underestimate somebody's ability to accomplish a given task, resources will be miss-allocated and you increase the chance that the task won't be accomplished at all. While this is admittedly more of an officer concern, as an up-and-coming NCO, you have to be able to communicate this information to your officers so they can make good decisions about what types of tasks you and your soldiers are best suited to accomplish.

The second question is about command structure, and I'll be completely honest here--I have no idea what the command structure you fall under looks like. What I do know is that your Commander sets priorities for you and your soldiers based on the taskings he receives from his Commander. If this Captain is not in that command structure, (and only if your Command is going to back this play) perhaps the solution is to refer her to your Commander rather than trying to deal with the problem yourself (don't do this without warning your Command! That will end poorly). I filled a similar role for about two years as company maintenance NCOIC as PFC/SPC, and had occasional issues with Battalion staff who couldn't seem to understand that I'm not qualified to turn wrenches and fix trucks except as an operator, and my tasking wasn't to keep everybody's records in order--just my company's. I had my own MOS-specific training to keep up on in addition to those duties. Generally referring staff NCOs and Officers to my Command resolved the issue, and maintaining that command structure helped everybody to remain civil and professional, and everybody knew what they needed to know to accomplish the mission. My Commander liked being the one who decided where there was time in my training schedule for me to teach other Companies' mechanics how to better utilize record-keeping resources like SAMS-1E. You will have to find out from your Command how they want you to address the problem (your Platoon Sergeant is probably the best person to go to for this. If they aren't helpful, try your Platoon Leader. If that doesn't work, let both of them know you want to talk with the Commander. In any case be objective, professional, and remember you are seeking guidance about how to prioritize you and your soldiers' time, and determining whether or not you can refer people who want to disrupt that prioritization to your command, not whining about an officer telling you to do something in a way that made you feel disrespected.

Remember that nobody sets out in life to be a terrible human being or disrespectful or whatnot--the Captain you are having issues with is no exception. She probably is the way she is for what she perceives to be good reasons. The way you fix this is to treat her with respect and dignity (as is appropriate for her station as Captain) and remember that you are actually respecting the rank rather than the individual. In my experience, if you treat people with respect, eventually they come around and start treating you with that same respect. It can take a while sometimes, but it does happen. You might also take a few hours to sit down and design a workflow plan for yourself and your soldiers. Having some sort of design document/checklist tends to help ensure that the only time basic things like keeping carts stocked doesn't happen is when everybody is slammed with too many tasks... and running through and checking every hour or so and fixing things as you go doesn't take much time if you design the solution systematically.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 11:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 11:36:38 -0500

I am coming at this from a Career Counselors perspective. I am a SFC and have had my share of experience with Officers that received their Commission with little to no Leadership experience. For the Senior NCO's on this forum please take what I am going to state with a grain of salt before you decide to try to dress me down. For the Officers on this forum just take what is stated as a possible occurrence and something that does happen before lighting my uniform on fire as a ........ Here are some facts that need to be addressed first and foremost. If you have never been in a Medical Command (USAH, MSU, ETC.) It is a different organism than the rest of the Army/USAR/NG. This type of unit is where Enlisted and Officers work hand in hand to save lives. Do I believe that the SPC is out of line for talking to the CPT as the acting NCOIC "No". Do I believe that the SPC wrote a check that her backside could not handle "Yes". Correct me if I am wrong but we as an organization are trained to deal with issues at the lowest levels. If there is a problem we are supposed to try to deal with it one on one to try to resolve said issue before it becomes a major issue. Simple common sense. There was a point and time in our military history where the person with the rank may not be the most qualified for the job at hand. It is why inside the fence you had NCO's handling the administrative portion of the tasks but outside the fence you had CPL/SPC running the missions. Just because you have the rank does not make you a Leader. Leadership is a trained and earned responsibility. Why do you think 1SG's are paired with CPT's because it is the 1SG's job to mentor the CPT to become a Leader. We are the Backbone of any organization without the NCO the majority of missions would fail. In this particular case the SPC stepped up in an NCO Role unfortunately and this does happen in the majority of situations an Officer looks at the rank and disrespects the Soldier. I did not see where the SPC spoke with her Wardmaster (an E-8 position) to try for conflict resolution. In a medical unit specifically a USAH there are Wardmasters put in place to mentor these young nurses (LT-MAJ) on the everyday occurrences. It is their responsibility to work hand in hand with the Senior Nurse (LTC) to resolve these issues. This is just a show of where the Chain of Command has broken down within an Army Structure. It is a common occurrence because this goes to show that the SPC was never briefed on her Chain of Command and where to go for this specific conflict resolution. This falls on the NCO Chain because we never set up that particular role. Like it or not this is our own doing. The only document that was needed was a DA Form 4856 explaining the Soldier's duties. For those that do not know it is a Developmental Counseling. It can be used for good or bad situations. We tend to gloss over doing this one particular document because we give so many verbal counselings. It applies to Officers as well this exact same document. Officers are just as guilty of not using this document because just like all of us we get so wrapped up with the day to day that we fail to take care of our Soldiers. Case in point now a Retention NCO will have to try to rescue the SPC who we spent thousands of dollars on to try to retain them in an organization that is causing them to have a sour taste in their mouth. It is not branch specific either or an Enlisted or Officer problem it is a military problem. We are losing so many qualified personnel because somebody has a chip on their proverbial shoulders. Treat people how you want to be treated, and as always document with a paper trail. Also FYI I am just as guilty as the rest of us for failing to do the proper thing. I will get off of my soapbox now she needs to go talk with the Wardmaster and get this documented. Do the appropriate follow ups and escalate as she deems necessary if the problem doesn't start resolving itself. Otherwise, we just lost another Soldier that somebody is going to have to work extremely hard to try to recover.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 12:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:00:12 -0500

Thick skin, staying positive and pro active will help you out alot. 1. You will never fix people personality no matter what the rank; toxic or great leadership will be in same no matter what the rank or position just have to get thick skin and teach your subordinates the same 2. Staying positive no matter the negative situation or people involved will help you and your Soldiers 3. Stay proactive and find out what needs to be done withou being told to do it and Officers need help help them. I have learned It doesnt matter what position you are put in I was Ops SGM as an E7 alot of times , but what proactive thing are you doing while in that E6 position NCOs lead the way. Your Actions as a good proactive, positive leader might rub off on the nurse

Response by PVT Ronald Miles made Feb 8 at 2016 12:05 PM

PVT Ronald Miles — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:05:52 -0500

documentation first. you must document these incidents. then are you willing to suffer the consequence ? you will be given bad reviews. your evaluations will be low. so the question is ,is it worth it? as a matter of principle ,yes, as a matter of a piece of **** officer no. I took the matter of principle road and suffered. my rank when people asked me was " up and down." think long and hard and let that be your answer.

Response by SPC Jake Lovelace made Feb 8 at 2016 12:45 PM

SPC Jake Lovelace — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:45:19 -0500

You have to understand that you will have senior NCO's and CO's of all different types and style of leadership. Good and bad. This Cpt. Tone and demeanor may have been or atleast portrayed as disrespectful, however like stated before, it was a lawful order. Drive on. The part of how the Cpt. Stated that you are a SPC., and she/he is a Cpt., shows the type of person they're. Others see it as well. The only time such phrase should be uttered from a leader is if a subordinate blatantly undermines the authority of a superior. With that being said, did what you had to do with reporting the incident to the chain of command. Leave it alone now. Does this really warrant going to top brass? How will they look at you if you tell them basically 'my Cpt. Is giving me an order with a mean tone'. Also, just a reminder if a Senior does something like this, never ever show signs of disdain towards that person. It will harm you more then what that person does to you. In this case, try going to the Cpt. At another time if appropriate or if needed to the CO and give them a run down of what you need to accomplish that day as being in that leadership position and include them into the discussion by asking "Sir/Ma'am is there anything that you would need me to do before I execute these tasks?"

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Feb 8 at 2016 1:21 PM

SSG Wally Lawver — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 13:21:14 -0500

quite your sniveling, say yes sir, and go about your business..............

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Feb 8 at 2016 3:14 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:14:03 -0500

Friend, do yourself a favor and suck it up. had you posted this and posed a question on what you should do, prior to bringing this up to your chain of command; you might have been advised against it. You are establishing for yourself a reputation that you get bent out of shape every time a lawful order is given to you. As stated here several times, some people do not have conversational skills. Respect her rank and authority, not the person.

Do your duties beforehand next time and conduct your training elsewhere (out of sight, out of mind) - but always let your chain of command know how to reach you and what you are doing.

You are making things hard on yourself and her, quit taking things so personal. Be glad you are in the medical corps, because you most likely wouldn't last in the Infantry....

Response by CPL Lori Kittinger made Feb 8 at 2016 4:38 PM

CPL Lori Kittinger — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 16:38:57 -0500

Well in a very respectfully sarcastic tone next time you can tell her sure ma'am I can go fold blankets would you mind training this soldier on the proper paperwork for our patients so they can continue to receive quality care.... that may or may not get you into shit but the facts are still looking the facts, training soldiers is still a priority over warm blankets. Unfortunately with a sham shield you are not going to get a ton of respect until you just keep doing the next right thing, sometimes the high road is the better option. Army or no army piss poor attitudes always reveal themselves in my experience. And I was a acting Evac Plt SGT as an E-4 (CPL) and a nurse civilian side. Appointed over a e5 by my 1SGT, just hang in and make sure you and those under you are squared away and until it gets in the way of appropriate patient care let it be long as your chain of command is aware....making the regs a word for word imprint on your brain is never a bad idea either....good luck

Response by SSG James Courtney made Feb 8 at 2016 5:11 PM

SSG James Courtney — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 17:11:43 -0500

You put yourself on the spot, make sure its filled next time! If your in a Leadership position, then act like it, don't let officers accomplish or tell your duties, this is where it gets screwed up, and make sure you inventory the minute you walk through that door, You deserve the tone of the officer SPC! Make yourself a checklist, if you show up earlier take some dam initiative if this is ongoing problem! Hell order more through supply if you have to!

Response by SSG Pamela Holloway made Feb 8 at 2016 5:55 PM

SSG Pamela Holloway — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 17:55:39 -0500

Because of your rank, I would work the whole situation differently from now on. I would make sure to inform the CPT of my daily plans and time line. Keeping others inform, especially immediate supervisors, will save a lot of headache and decrease tension around the workplace. As backup, I would also let my SFC become aware of my daily duties on the floor so that it won't be a he said she said situation. It's all about building alliances and trust with coworkers and supervisors. Sometimes, you have think about how is the person sees you and maybe work at changing how you present yourself to others. Being in a leadership role requires teambuilding within yourself and others. Respect comes with experience, knowledge, confidence and ability to train, lead, and problem solve all types of situations with different types of personalities.

Response by CPO Charles Watson made Feb 8 at 2016 6:18 PM

CPO Charles Watson — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 18:18:03 -0500

There is a model of leadership that is mandatory practice at Westpoint that stresses the point of how to be a leader in a "Free Society," it is called "Schofield's Rules of Disciple." Please look it up, it holds true in all walks of life, because People follow leaders because they want to, and people follow managers because they have to! You can never get the best out of people of a free society by nagging!!! HMC USN RET

Response by Sgt Mike Williams made Feb 8 at 2016 7:42 PM

Sgt Mike Williams — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 19:42:47 -0500

You got into the right business:
The ARMY sitting around and wondering who might offend you next.
Grow up, good grief, and stay the freaking heck away from my beloved Marines (who do exactly what they are told to do, when they are told to do so)
(Keep voting democrat, this is what we get - I need a hug!)

Response by PO2 Derek Roper made Feb 8 at 2016 8:26 PM

PO2 Derek Roper — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 20:26:52 -0500

I am just impressed that a medical officer knew what ranks you both were.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Feb 8 at 2016 9:07 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:07:05 -0500

First of all, make sure you are ahead of the curve with this officer... so that you can respond with "Ma'am, my current duties and responsibilities as defined by my SOP are complete in that area, and I am currently following Hospital Commander SOP by conducted on-the-spot training as required by my duty position.

If you have a task you require outside of my normally assigned duties I'd be happy to detail someone to accomplish those tasks.

Many officers are actually told that enlisted people are stupid and lazy and they do not take into account that many of us hold equal or higher educational degrees to their own...

Get yourself 'right' and stay to what you are supposed to do. Always know what your Chain of Command has directed you to do and if the TACSOP is signed by an O-5 and an O-3 wants you to do something else then they are telling you to ignore a superior officers written orders.

Response by PV2 Michael Cota made Feb 8 at 2016 9:27 PM

PV2 Michael Cota — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:27:09 -0500

If i am not mistaken your the officer in charge regardless of rank in this instance your command is over hers regardless Honestly I would have written the officer up or made them push. You have full power too do so.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Feb 8 at 2016 10:01 PM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:01:23 -0500

Sorry buddy, the only thing you can do is learn to deal with it and adjust to her presence. This is one of the main reason I used to hate being in the military. Especially be Asian, I'm treated differently considering how our closest competitor is the Chinese Military. However, an officer will treat you anyway they want and you can't say crap about it. The only thing you have to do is deal with it and developed a thicker skin, I know I have.

If it was in the civilian world, I would have cuss the hell out of the nurse. This is probably why I don't give any respect to officer when I see them, since I've been out of the military. Nonetheless, it's not to say I talk crap to all officers, only to those who thinks they're gods according to their rank. Usually officers of O4 and above are more adapted to speaking with an enlisted as a human being. Those officer from O1-O3 still believes that they're gods to enlisted.

From experience, I had to deal with a senior enlisted who treated me like crap. She just got promoted to E8 and gave me a rude lecture about calling her a Chief. Since I don't know the difference between the Anchors on their collar. You can't see the damn star on top of the anchor unless you look closely or is familiar with the rank structure. Good thing for me, I befriended a Master Chief who is an E9 and worked for the III MEF Chaplain. He set her aside and told her to give me a break since being in the Marine I was not familiar with the ranking structure, especially never being around any sailors except for the medic Petty Officers.

I was going to go up to my Colonel and tell him about it since he was my direct chain of command. It was kind of odd how every high ranking personnel in our building don't give me any crap when he's present, but once he goes out and plays golf with the General, everyone would come to me and expect me to run their errands. That stopped quickly after I told my Colonel.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 10:31 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:31:03 -0500

Document, document, document. In these cases, written statements are the best course of action. Document dates, time, situation, actions taken and results. Document who you spoke too, what was there response, what were there actions. Stop wasting time writing here. Take your journal of documents to Legal. Have them notoriety as official statements. PRESENT THIS TO YOUR LTC. Check the results then.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 10:34 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:34:09 -0500

Ok, so an officer can't disrespect an NCO or enlisted person. Look it up the definition of disrespect in the UCMJ. Anyways, first typically nurses and doctors in the army have very limited leadership experience, so they mimic what they think is an effective leader. Second, it sounds like you working in a hostile work environment, there is av recourse for that, it is the EOR. You can file a hostile work environment complaint. All that said you will need documentation, and supporting witnesses. Nonetheless, you have exhausted all avenues. Finally, there is no such thing as specialist (p), make sure you take a good hard long look at yourself and your team before you drop the hammer. Is your work ethic impeccable? Does your team exceed the standard? Do you ensure you have systems in place to account for all processes? Etc...in others words is your shit on lock? Good luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 10:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:51:23 -0500

As a SFC and a Medic I will tell you this, which may not be far off from what some others have already told you. Respect is not given it's earned. We as an audience have no idea of your maturity. Not every Officer or Non-Commissioned Officer is the best at what they do or at being a good leader. So buck up, be tactful, and stand your ground in a respectful way. On a deployment to Afghanistan I was a MEDEVAC Platoon Sergeant based on a FOB run by Marines. They had Positions run by E-3 to E-5 that we would give to an E-7. They were always respectful to me, however during times of disagreements or discussions they stood their ground because they were the SMEs. They had my respect, because they earned it. I never once above them or disrespected them because there was no need to. Once again that was me another person may act different, can't guarantee anything.

Response by Roderick Ellington made Feb 8 at 2016 11:55 PM

Roderick Ellington — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 23:55:50 -0500

Well Private(P) I was previously a HM3(FMF) Corpsman that sometimes pulled duty in the ICU and ER because I was a civilian LPN. I once had a similar situation and could not get any assistance from my seniors in which I felt was ok because I was a big boy and could handle the situation my self and I did with great success. I went to work one day and I did everything by the book I arrived 30 minutes early, I stood at attention when ever she came in the room or walked by or just in the area and I literally jumped every time she ask or told me to do something I also used nothing but military lingo. Well after a while she seemed to feel like a jerk because one of the officers that work with us finally said something to her as to how unfair and disrespectful she was to me and my soldiers. A little while latter she caught me in a corner of a hallway when putting away dinner trays and I stood to and she said at ease soldier I believe I owe you a apology for my behavior which was pointed out to me to be some what unbecoming of a officer. And from that day on she was nothing but respect and put me in for a award and shook my hand the last day on that floor and made it a point to always say something to me when ever she saw me around the hospital. Keep in mind though that everyone is different and this may not be effective in you situation.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 12:06 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 00:06:47 -0500

This whole post gives me a headache. If an officer came and told me in a "rude manner" to take out the trash. Know what I do? I get up, and take out the damn trash and continue on with my day. You know what I do to avoid confrontation? I do that shit before I'm even asked. Not that there's really a serious run in on the flight line but, still. My AMU is extremely undermanned and Staff heavy. Just get your shot done or get lower ranks to do it. She didn't ask you to do some impossible shit. She asked you to do your job.

Response by PO3 Bobby Jones made Feb 9 at 2016 12:15 AM

PO3 Bobby Jones — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 00:15:25 -0500

You got ordered to do your job. Suck it up and do your job.

Response by SPC Victor Tovar made Feb 9 at 2016 12:51 AM

SPC Victor Tovar — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 00:51:38 -0500

Play dumb to her if she keeps treating you that way (personal exp. but don't let on . lol). Let her learn by your experience cause all you need is time for that person to see you in your true nature (under pressure). But to the fine Officer's that lead you will always know what you do. Your Rank says it all. And with all due respect to you, that is what she will always see. We are all motivated and brush off things when you have your NCO covering you (even though it doesn't cover you at this time)You cannot please everybody SPC. And in this special case, your not an NCO.... Yet! Carry on Bro, your command Officer's will never tell you all the BS she does. Stay strong and do what your told SPC. This will make you a better soldier and a damn good NCO. And if you don't like it, well then go be an Officer... But me thinks you work for a living.....

Response by PO1 Tracy Dreyer made Feb 9 at 2016 5:36 AM

PO1 Tracy Dreyer — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 05:36:53 -0500

Suck it up buttercup! Life is not fair and not everyone is a winner! Sorry you got your feelings hurt.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 6:13 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 06:13:52 -0500

Next time, make sure you stock all of the supplies before doing computer training that can be done any time. Some people are good leaders and some are bad leaders. You as an E-4 should NEVER have to confront a Captain about anything. You should just ensure your priorities of work are complete in the right manner. I wouldn't start putting up concertina wire before emplacing crew served weapons in a defense. To the Captain, that's exactly what you were doing. Take initiative and don't EVER expect an officer to do your job for you.

Response by PO1 Scott Cruse made Feb 9 at 2016 8:12 AM

PO1 Scott Cruse — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 08:12:45 -0500

As some who was put into the same situation as you, you acted correctly and should do take it up the chain until it is resolve

Response by PO1 Bill Adams made Feb 9 at 2016 8:23 AM

PO1 Bill Adams — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 08:23:35 -0500

Respect has to go both ways. Not only in the military, but in life period. Just as we enlisted have to respect, or pretend to respect (Come on, you've all been there) the NCOs and Officers appointed above us, they have to respect, or pretend to respect those they lead.

The main problem I have with this officer, is she demands respect, yet gives none in return. She would probably be worse as a civilian.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 8:29 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 08:29:23 -0500

Just admit it, you were slacking off. Had you been proactive and doing your job, that CPT wouldn't have had to ask you in the first place. I came into the U.S. Army as a PVT, so I know a thing or two about slacking off. I also know about being disrespected as in my senior drill sergeant telling me, "You're not a U.S. citizen and you're in MY Army?" I didn't go crying to IG or EO, by the way. What I did was that I became a U.S. citizen 3 years later.

This is a consequence of the new Army, where leaders have to say please and subordinates get to decide which orders they want to execute. You can do one of two things: 1) man up and become the best medic ever so that you can move up in rank or become an officer or 2) get out; maybe the military isn't for you.

By the way, your question grabbed my attention and I immediately thought sexual harassment or assault, because you say that a superior "disrespected" you. Even though she hurt your feelings, she did not disrespect you.

Response by SSgt Jeff Cannon made Feb 9 at 2016 9:41 AM

SSgt Jeff Cannon — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:41:55 -0500

She will reap what she sows, wait till she's a civilian and this rank don't mean squat! Nurses on the outside have to wipe butts and stock blankets she won't have SPC to do her petty work! Sad to hear that the Military especially medical which I spent 15 yrs in still have "rank" arrogant ppl! Look at me I'm an O-3! Ha, that's why she's an Army Nurse, No Ppl skills! Otherwise she'd be civilian making 100k a yr!

Response by SFC Ed Welch made Feb 9 at 2016 11:24 AM

SFC Ed Welch — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 11:24:35 -0500

Ok as an E-4 in an E-6 position, you are at the top of the responsibility chain of 2 up or 1 down. You need to get in touch with the Meddac CSM there and let him know what is going on. If patient care is being compromised, it should be incumbent on him to correct this as soon as possible. Another route is the hospital commander and then the next person to talk with will be the post CSM. It sounds to me like your E-7's are not taking care of business the correct way. It sounds like the Capt. has little ideal of what proper leadership is. If you have a decent commander, her OER should reflect her inability to lead and mentor the enlisted personnel, which is one of her duties. I would get her on record being disrespectful to you and the others. You may have only E-4 pinned on, but the duty position demands the respect. Same as hers.

Response by MCPO Tony Polanco made Feb 9 at 2016 11:31 AM

MCPO Tony Polanco — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 11:31:06 -0500

Specialist P, you mentioned speaking to your SFC on three separate occasions and the LTC on one occasion. What feedback, if any, did they provide you after speaking with the mentioned officer(s)? I would vehemently advice you NOT to speak with the hospital commander because this situation is an easy fix if your SNCO's are conducting themselves as such. Now if there's some legitimacy to the officer(s) having to verbally prompt you on responsibilities (i.e., restocking, patient check-in, cleanliness, end of shift administrative reviews, etc.) that a shift leader should be on top of daily, then it's not about "sucking it up," but more so about "growing-up" by executing and accomplishing shift expectations ahead of time, and I will assure you that your perceived "disrespect" will the subsequently reverse into praise. Good luck, stay focused, and KEEP CHARGING THE HILL!!!!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 12:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:17:33 -0500

We talk all the time about customer service. It applies to each other. Talk to a senior NCO that you trust. They can talk to the officer on your behalf and other enlisted soldiers. To be successful it takes everyone on them. That's why there is Team STEPPS, everyone has a say in caring for patients. I hope this helped.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 12:47 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:47:21 -0500

Get the instant Chaplain involved, no one could stop you from seeing him. Chaplains brief Brigade and hospital commanders on these issues.

Response by Matthew Massena made Feb 9 at 2016 1:29 PM

Matthew Massena — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:29:54 -0500

Suck it up

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 1:45 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:45:01 -0500

suck it up

Response by PO1 Christopher Yancey made Feb 9 at 2016 3:28 PM

PO1 Christopher Yancey — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:28:52 -0500

You are getting treated by these nurses the same way most of them get treated by doctors in the real world. My wife is an RN and has been for over 19 years now. I hear all of the stories of how the doctors talk down to them. Then one day I went to go see her at work and saw how she was talking to a med surge/tech. I did not point it out there, but brought it up to her at home. Anyways, not justifying the O-3's actions (does not sound like she is a Captain or a leader) but I know Nurses get dumped on that way also. Keep your professionalism, start documenting training on your subordinates on "Leader vs. Boss" "Communication" and other such topics that have to build them as leaders and put them in their training jackets under OJT. this way, the entire chain of command gets to see and initial it. You will be teaching the future leaders and also eventually Somebody will ask "why are you teaching on this same subject every month?" "permission to speak freely?" "yes" "so my troops don't end up like that -------->"

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 3:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:33:07 -0500

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaa....

This is amusing to me. Not that it happened, because this shouldn't happen at a work place but you got disrespected. I was infantry for a few years and I was constantly disciplined and punished for things that my Team Leader did, my Teammate did, for happen to hear something, for not hearing something, for not being quick enough, for being too fast, for someone had parked over at the TMC parking lot when that needed shoveling. You see where this is going? You know who I cried to? Nobody, I just bitched to my teammates... because that is all we could do.

The Army is not a normal job, nor should it be. I hope you don't deploy.. because some insurgent will insult the shit out of you.

Response by SFC Erich Orrick made Feb 9 at 2016 4:00 PM

SFC Erich Orrick — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:00:47 -0500

suck it up troop, she talks to you because you earned that level of communication. You are a SPC, doesn't matter, you are still a specialist. Seems that position has gone to your head and in todays Army, you expect higher ranks to kiss your butt and say please follow my orders, do you expect them to ask you to do a favor for them instead of just telling you? With motivated troops, you don't need to bark orders, because simply saying can you do that will suffice, but you somehow gave a CPT the idea that you need to be told what to do. Shoe fit?

Response by SSG Darrin Roark made Feb 9 at 2016 4:15 PM

SSG Darrin Roark — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 16:15:25 -0500

When you're lower enlisted buttercup, the onliest avenue of approach in this situation is to follow the order and to move like thunder and lightning while carrying out the order. Later on you can talk to one of your NCO's about this situation after you've accomplished the task at hand. Drink water, take a couple Motrins, put on your buffer badge and drive on young man.

Response by PO3 Joel Henderson made Feb 9 at 2016 5:29 PM

PO3 Joel Henderson — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:29:37 -0500

As a former corpsman (if there is such a thing as "former") the nurses I ran into that had issues were typically bothered by the fact that I could and was trained to do more than their license allowed. Because of this they often felt it necessary to throw their rank around, even though less than 6 weeks prior they were graduating nursing school and hadn't been issued their god complex yet. What I found was the chance to teach them something was the chance to show them you are more than a sheet changer. Take advantage of any opportunities to do just that. I'm sure you have more time in, make sure they understand you're not new and may have knowledge they do not. It goes a long way.

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made Feb 9 at 2016 5:29 PM

SSG Fred Campbell — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:29:38 -0500

I don't care if you are a medic, truck driver, grunt, or broom pusher, YOU'RE IN THE ARMY!!! It is an officer addressing you, right or wrong, there is not a regulation that says an officer has to respect your feelings being hurt!! We have all dealt with over zealous officers in our careers, they come and go, it's up to you to keep your military bearing and say "Yes, Sir" or "No, Sir" NOT "Excuse me, sir" or But, Sir". You figured it out yourself....SUCK IT UP AND DRIVE ON!!!!

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Feb 9 at 2016 5:31 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:31:18 -0500

With so many responses hope you got some good insights into how to tactfully handle a situation like this should it come up in the future without sticking your neck out too far.

Response by Capt Jason S. made Feb 9 at 2016 5:35 PM

Capt Jason S. — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:35:08 -0500

In the 1990's my NCO's would have squared them away. Now times have changed. I think you make a valid point but remember you always have to respect the rank, not the person who wears the rank. I remember a young officer who once pulled some B.S. with us. He turned and took a step then turned around. When we did not re-saluted him he started in about how we did not give him proper respect and we should have saluted him. Later, We saw him coming out of the building. So, we spaced out 4 paces, each. Their were 20 of us. He had to saluted 20 time. He got the point that regulations and respect goes both ways after that! We all laughed about it and we busted our but for him later and we had a wonderful working relationship. You never know what the problem is with the person but working hard is never the wrong thing to do. Respect is earned both ways, it takes time, people see what goes on and remember. I hope this gives you encouragement to work hard, drive on through the tough time, build comradery with your shift and may be the officers will follow.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 6:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:09:52 -0500

Can sorta empathize with you, but at the same time I gotta question your actions having been a SP4 / CPL in a Staff Sergeant duty position. Why did you have to be told to take care of a job, that should have already been done with regard to restock? Had everything been properly stocked the officer in question would have not had anything to address that led to the initial confrontation. While it is important to train folks on different systems, it is more important to try and do all the little basic l tasks that make up the big picture as well. Always anticipate the needs of higher and have them done before they are needed.

Response by TSgt Manuel Perez made Feb 9 at 2016 6:21 PM

TSgt Manuel Perez — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:21:53 -0500

Leadership skills seems to be the issue in this case, Its not uncommon to have uoung officers and NCOs treat people like dirt.. Use the chain of command and keep mvjng foward.

Response by SGT Benjamin Bredfeldt made Feb 9 at 2016 6:33 PM

SGT Benjamin Bredfeldt — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:33:05 -0500

It sounds like you weren’t doing your job properly and the officer told you so. Apparently this is something you or someone in your charge should routinely be checking before sitting down for less essential duties like computer training. As a young leader, this will happen. Like any professional, you should have set aside your bruised feelings and worried more about what else you might be missing. Think of the officer as your customer. Use this as an opportunity to build that customer service relationship. Apologize for the oversight, ensure that it will never happen again, and ask if there is anything else she can think of that you can do to make her life easier. Your job is to make sure the officers you work with have the resources at hand to do their job. Go out of your way to anticipate anything they might need. In no time they will be as friendly and respectful as you could want.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 7:13 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:13:29 -0500

As you've read, there are many ways to effectively handle your situation. Turn this into a teachable situation, for your subordinates. First, don't give her the opportunity to tell you what needs to be done. When you come on shift go directly to her and ask her what instructions she has for you. Second, kill it with kindness: snap to and get whatever task she dishes out done immediately and politely.
If you take a proactive approach she may soften up a bit. Going over her head will only do harm to you. Grievances should be handled at the lowest level possible. I'm sorry you have to work for someone that may be on a power trip but, you are going to have to try and mitigate her attitude toward you as much as you can ( see again above) and just suck up the rest.

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Feb 9 at 2016 8:21 PM

SFC Lawrence Born — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 20:21:44 -0500

If your concerns aren't being addressed by your leadership it is time to let the E4 mafia roll out. There are plenty of ways to passively make others work lives miserable. I would find those and execute with extreme prejudice. I was a 56M and had to make similar things happen to a few Chaplains over my 20 years. Care for your patients and your soldiers......then make them pay :)

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 10:21 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:21:11 -0500

Typical new Army BS

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Feb 9 at 2016 10:48 PM

CW4 Brian Haas — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:48:49 -0500

I can't believe how many senior "leaders" on here are just being dicks. If you can't help this Soldier asking his question, no need to reply and show your ignorance. You don't know the whole situation...ignorance. He simply is asking for help. He has used his COC, and gotten nowhere. Keep going up it, but make sure you're right. Everyone has a boss. I'd hate to work for some of the folks in here...they think their rank gives them the ability to treat others like crap...or they're brave because it's online.

Response by SGT James Belcher made Feb 9 at 2016 11:25 PM

SGT James Belcher — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:25:02 -0500

I was a Infantryman...I did what I was told and if they officer was a dick, so be it. I certainly wouldn't have confronted an officer as a Spec. I'd have let my senior NCO know the situation and drove on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 7:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:21:19 -0500

First and foremost an order is an order. Too many times it is received or delivered the wrong way. Look at your duties and develop a system of checks and balances to ensure all stationed are covered and resupplied. Be ahead of the game, a things to do list. As you learn how each nurse, Doctor and medic work and what their goals are anticipate their needs and put a plan of action in your work area. As you go through your clinic view the areas that this officer is pointing out and have your crew stay on top of the situation. Then log the activities to show what your Soldiers are doing throughout the day. This will help all of the staff out. Then you can have your SFC show to your CDR what is or isn't happening. It's never easy working for a toxic leader, from your post it's not enough to make that case. Tact is telling someone to go to hell in such a nice way, they are looking forward to the trip.

Response by 1SG Fred Scharf made Feb 10 at 2016 7:41 AM

1SG Fred Scharf — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:41:54 -0500

Talk to the Hospital Command Sergeant Major. He's allowed to spank Captains.

Response by MAJ Mathew Billings made Feb 10 at 2016 7:50 AM

MAJ Mathew Billings — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:50:26 -0500

Have you documented these situations in emails addressed to those others you say you've ask for help from? Instead of going to those folks and verbally asking for help, put your concerns and grievances in an email, address it to multiple people in the chain of command - be respectful in it, but do address each instance where she has abused her rank and privilege. Once this is documented, and enough time has elapsed where you should start seeing some effect, then you can take it to the next level in the chain of command. Keep on pressing it until it gets addressed by someone.

Response by CSM Willam Lybrand made Feb 10 at 2016 9:03 AM

CSM Willam Lybrand — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:03:12 -0500

They are officer by pay grade but only because of their occupation you did what you are charge to due in a NCO position sounds like IG Complaint retired CSM.

Response by TSgt Jose Cabrera made Feb 10 at 2016 9:09 AM

TSgt Jose Cabrera — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:09:59 -0500

I'll be damned if a Cpt, First Shirt or whomever it is, is going to belittle me because of there rank. Respect goes both ways! She's an idiot for her conduct and for anyone to condone her actions doesn't have a spine! The NCO is there to back up there troops no matter what. Now if the SPC fucked up then chew his ass! Behind close doors! that's how it's done! I worked in the Medical field for 15 years and never had to deal with Officers who were idiots. I don't make excuses for Officers who are jack asses! like Sgt Kennnedy said, tact and professionalism goes along way. But I wouldn't make excuses for her. She has a chain of Command and so do you. Bring it to the attention of your SFC and have him deal with her. When I was Stationed in the 2nd Armored Division Forward in Baumholder Germany in the 80's and our company commander jumped in our asses calling us idiots and dumbasses, belittling the entire company. Our First Shirt a Vietnam Vet. waited until his ass was done and asked to speak to him in his office when he was done! You could hear the screams from our First shirt, It went on for nearly 20 minutes. But that the Infantry for you with NCO's with backbones! The Company Commander never again crossed that line ever again. Today's Army I wouldn't last in because of all the Sugar Dicks! Somewhere there's always someone sucking to advance instead preparing there soldiers to advance. Or all the clicks and careers being destroyed by idiots who are intimidated by talent that's far greater then there own!

Response by CPO David Sharp made Feb 10 at 2016 9:42 AM

CPO David Sharp — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:42:00 -0500

SPC Souza. Disrespect is deadly in Ranks. My suggestion, if you get no help from your immediate Chain of Command is to see your Command Sgt.Maj. with this situation. Be prepared with facts and times. If possible have someone to verify the situation. Be advised this better be more than a one time incident. Resolve at the lowest level possible and keep trying to reconcile with this Capt. before you move too quickly. The Sgt.Maj. is the stop just before the XO. So really think this through and try to resolve in house if possible.

Response by PO3 Steve Mac made Feb 10 at 2016 9:52 AM

PO3 Steve Mac — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:52:11 -0500

I'm a civilian Paramedic and recently completed nursing school. Now I work in a small ER at a Level 4.

I liked your approach of talking to the offending Officer on the side; too bad it didn't go well.

I currently have a problem with a senior nurse. She is decidedly NOT approachable and I don't trust her reaction to be professional, and so I have done this:

I've asked our supervisor to facilitate a conversation between the other nurse and I. The supervisor is on board, and is going to pull the hospital VP in also.

It's a little different for you and your structure, but ask a common supervisor to do that for you. Not to talk to the other person, but to help ensure that the other person will hear you out professionally--and have a chance to respond professionally.

Be concise, be factual, explain what was going on at the time and your continued willingness to jump in and help where needed and/ or when asked.

I think facilitating a chat with your office jerk is more personable than trying to make it rain from above--and if it works your relationship will be better. If it doesn't you can still make it rain.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 10:04 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 10:04:01 -0500

You are spinning your wheels if you are trying to change her or the system. You don't control either of those things. The only thing you control is you, so if you are getting bad results, do you differently. She might be dead wrong, but she apparently has precisely 0 motivation to make your life easy. You can change that by changing your relationship and interactions with her. I guarantee if you do something to earn her respect and gratitude, she won't feel justified to jam you up over towels or anything else. Or, alternately, you can do nothing differently, and get no different results. Up to you.

Response by Cpl Donearl Vereen made Feb 10 at 2016 11:30 AM

Cpl Donearl Vereen — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:30:31 -0500

Being a MARINE I'm sorry but I find this hilarious

Response by Cpl Donearl Vereen made Feb 10 at 2016 11:32 AM

Cpl Donearl Vereen — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:32:36 -0500

I find this hilarious. This is everyday life in the Marine Corps.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Feb 10 at 2016 11:43 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:43:27 -0500

Told the captain that you were training the new soldier, plus is a hospital, most of the nurses and doctor are tired so sometime you will expect an attitude from them.

Response by SP5 Robert Thompson made Feb 10 at 2016 11:45 AM

SP5 Robert Thompson — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:45:42 -0500

Every Scenario is different. And yes, many an Officer could be knocked down a peg or two when its merited, just as much as ten times that amount in enlisted should have their heels locked and their attitudes equally adjusted.

Response by GySgt Jim McCole made Feb 10 at 2016 12:43 PM

GySgt Jim McCole — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 12:43:52 -0500

Wuss, 9 months, grow something and fix this problem.

Response by A1C Scott Blais made Feb 10 at 2016 3:45 PM

A1C Scott Blais — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 15:45:44 -0500

You are in the military, she's an officer and you are not. She sounds like a bitch, but I'm a civilian now and and I can say that. When you get out you can say that to her face if you want to. I can guarantee if you approached an officer in any other field with that request her response would have been way more severe.

Response by SGT James Staton made Feb 10 at 2016 4:06 PM

SGT James Staton — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:06:59 -0500

Recommendations is that you keep you head up.. process his/her orders and know at the end of the day, you will have a clear conscious and you are the better person. you mentioned that you were training another soldier as this incident occurred.. show the soldier how mentoring is done properly and how respect is earned... the CPT will need you one day and hopefully they will realize the impact of disrespecting an enlisted while working as a team has great impact.

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made Feb 10 at 2016 4:29 PM

SGT Shawn Schweinberg — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:29:30 -0500

Sometimes you get bad leaders. It happens. You as the leader need to know sometimes there is nothing you can do. Your senior NCOs should be there to fix any crazy officers who don't treat their how's correctly. But it sounds as if your leadership is a little weak. So you need to be the rock. Take the hits for your soldiers. It sucks but it will teach you how to handle bad leaders and be a powerful leader at the same time. Someone soldiers we follow into hell and back.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 5:42 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:42:44 -0500

"kill her with kindness" but watch your 6. sometimes captains have what you can call " foot in mouth" disease....just continue to train those that are under you as you normally do. the next time she tells you to that instead of sitting around doing nothing why don't you restock things, reply with a yes ma'am as soon as I am done training our newest staff member we will get right on that.

Response by 1SG Donald Ingels made Feb 10 at 2016 5:57 PM

1SG Donald Ingels — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:57:24 -0500

While it is only one sided here and no one was there to witness the exchange - first thing is first - you were given an order, and as pointed out, it doesn't need to be said with "pretty please".

You are still a Specialist - you are NOT a Staff Sergeant - and therefore not entitled to all the privileges extended to a Staff Sergeant - you are holding that position at the moment most likely because the unit is short staffed and you are the most senior one present.

It sounds to me as if you picked the wrong time to conduct training with a private if a Captain was able to point out all of those items that needed to be done. Hip-pocket training is conducted when all other tasks have been completed and there is nothing else to do.

You should actually be embarrassed that an officer was able to point out what was lacking in the ward - wanting to be treated like a Staff NCO and temporally being placed in an NCO position - does not make you an NCO, nor imply you have the full experience of a Staff NCO.

Remember the one part of the NCO Creed - "Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. "

It sounds like this Captain may have been direct and to the point, having to issue a lawful order, because she had to do your job as the Shift Leader - although I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that this never even crossed your mind - you just wanted to complain because your feelings got hurt.

Response by MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 6:12 PM

MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:12:46 -0500

Too bad, so sad, the situation you describe is inconsequential. Get yourself a thicker skin.

Response by SFC Travis Wood made Feb 10 at 2016 6:13 PM

SFC Travis Wood — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:13:05 -0500

Getting what you want sometimes means taking a view of the other person. Maybe the CPT was having a bad day or lost a patient and her nerves were shot. Only she knows for sure. My point is since you're in charge, create a method or system in which you can ensure everything that needs to be done gets done. Develop a schedule of who does what and when, like a duty roster. Make a list of things that need to be done everyday and inspect them before she does. If all the work is done, she can't bitch when you're training. The other bit of advice I can give you is when in charge be in charge. I don't care if you're a SPC, if you're the shift leader, you're the shift leader. None of this "acting" nonsense. If you believe you are the shift leader, then everyone else will too, and they will treat you as such; "Acting" is a cop-out. It is basically saying, "if this goes bad, I wasn't really in charge, I was acting." Be the shift leader and kick ass doing it, but it start with you acknowledge that it's your ball to run with.

Response by SFC Stephan Patterson made Feb 10 at 2016 6:17 PM

SFC Stephan Patterson — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:17:35 -0500

What you find as you progress through the ranks, not everyone is respectful. Respect runs both ways and it is important to give respect to receive respect. That said, you could use that as a training session for the officer next time, tell her you were in the middle of training and ask her if she would like to join, and that you will gladly take care of what ever issue she has asked you to do. Sometimes it is difficult especially when they come at you a certain way. If their behavior toward you continues tell the 1SG you would like to talk to the CSM and get his take on the situation. As long as your respectful that should not be an issue.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Feb 10 at 2016 6:25 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:25:28 -0500

If you are her Ward Master, not clear from OP, and she was disrespectful, then there is something deeper wrong than this one incident.

Response by SFC Peter Berte made Feb 10 at 2016 6:25 PM

SFC Peter Berte — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:25:58 -0500

I am a retired SFC I say you should stop being so dam sensitive and do as you are told. I read what you wrote above and this Captain may not have been the nicest person in the world in how she told you to do something, but who cares get over your feelings you are in the Army not the Boy Scouts

Response by SSG Jason Register made Feb 10 at 2016 6:53 PM

SSG Jason Register — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:53:49 -0500

Not wrong at all. If you are acting in a certain position, you should get the respect of that position no matter your rank. We all know how some LT's and CPT's act sometimes though. If they are that way, all you can do is suck it up and CM. The BEST officer I ever had were all prior enlisted...

Response by PO1 Robert Hurst made Feb 10 at 2016 6:57 PM

PO1 Robert Hurst — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:57:19 -0500

My advice move out of your above pay grade position.

Response by A1C Tim Mcqueary made Feb 10 at 2016 7:18 PM

A1C Tim Mcqueary — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 19:18:06 -0500

i have told more than 1 of you officers to f off and don't mind doing it, your wrong and it means you live. just shut up and live!!!!!

Response by Cpl Vincent Lowry made Feb 10 at 2016 7:31 PM

Cpl Vincent Lowry — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 19:31:59 -0500

Next time pull out your stress card you got in basic. That'll solve it. Man the army is soft.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 8:12 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 20:12:26 -0500

Remember that you can always "respectfully" decline and say that you will get to it when you are done with your training. Maybe throw in some sarcasm..."unless somebody might die because they don't have a warm blankie"....haha.

Response by TSgt Robert Digby made Feb 10 at 2016 9:00 PM

TSgt Robert Digby — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:00:54 -0500

Try getting a mans job and stop whining

Response by SGT Nathan Vitartas made Feb 10 at 2016 9:54 PM

SGT Nathan Vitartas — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:54:15 -0500

Just tell them to stay in their lane...not really don't do that as enlisted and especially after you get stripes you still train and mentor officers. Regardless of their positions. One thing I learned as an NCO before I got out was that you can either make officers lives miserable and more difficult or make their lives a million times easier. If you aren't required to do her work and she mistreats you professional refuse. You also have I.G. And EO to report her and other seniors. Best thing you can do is write down every event the date and time or as close as you can remember and what happened and what was said. Have more of a leg to stand on. Officers and NCOs are expected to keep a level of professionalism.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 10 at 2016 9:59 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:59:30 -0500

I suspect that this is either an unexpected first occurrence and your previous interactions with this officer led you to believe that you could address her as an equal or one or the other of you were having a bad day. In any event it seems from the fact that you asked the question that things didn't go well. Given the complexity of human intercourse compounded by issues of rank, I doubt anyone can answer satisfactorily in this forum. Good luck figuring it out

Response by SSG Amy Koblos made Feb 11 at 2016 12:19 AM

SSG Amy Koblos — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 00:19:42 -0500

Approach and Tact help greatly. You went about it properly given that you'd pulled her aside and had a one on one conversation. However, I'm with SGT Aaron Kennedy, perhaps a different approach that prevents them from going on the defensive would help. If it's possible.

Given that this was 15 days ago, just wondering if you've made any progress these last few weeks since posting your concerns?

Response by SGT Jason Herbert made Feb 11 at 2016 12:40 AM

SGT Jason Herbert — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 00:40:26 -0500

You'll run into those mega cunts in any job. Its alot more difficult to deal with in the army. Outside, you'd just find another job. Talk to your branch manager see if you can get on orders.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 12:58 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 00:58:35 -0500

This kind of behavior is deplorable. You did exactly the right thing. The most professional thing possible. The problem is people get away with this kind of behavior because it's condoned up and down the chain of command. You need to file a complaint against her, write a very professional memo for record, have all the specialist, NCOs, SNCOs and officers who witness this and support you sign the letter, and address it to your commander. Things will get done! Why? The commander doesn't know where that letter will end up and if he is found to have not taken actions someone will hold him accountable. You commander doesn't want this letter on the front page of the Air Force Times. If his have to record her saying these deplorable thing. Do it. Good luck. I hate to hear you're going through this.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 1:09 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 01:09:28 -0500

With some of these responses, there is no one wonder why we have an astronomical number of sexual assaults in the military. Including the many that get swept under the carpet because we allow people to be disrespected in the ways described. I don't care if she was the general, she should not be disrespecting a soldier or anyone for that matter. Respect is a two way street. People didn't send their loved one to serve their country to be treated like this by the people they serve with. Take that macho, "it's okay to treat people like trash" attitude and shove it. Respectfully.

Response by SP5 Andy Downs made Feb 11 at 2016 1:58 AM

SP5 Andy Downs — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 01:58:32 -0500

well as a retired nco ill let this be simple if nothing is done or handled about this then please doo take it to the hospital commander but before you go to the bird talk with the csm of the hospital and see if he will handle it
the csm will handle more of it than the bird hell take it to the bird if things are not handled properly

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 5:50 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 05:50:42 -0500

disrespected? in other words your feelings were hurt? People who are "disrespected" haven't earned their respect yet but it does sound like you're a sub-par soldier who thinks respect is an entitlement. This is the military not a unionized government job. You were given an order, regardless of "how" it was given it should have been obeyed without question. It also sounds like the the rest of the staff has your number too. You'll never solve the problem by going higher in the chain of command . Seriously, think about it. wat are you going to say to the commanding officer? "I would like so-and-so to give an order politely". Tell me, why wasn't the blanket warmer full to begin with? I would think it had a higher priority than you in front of a computer regardless of the reason. If you were smart you'd apologize for confronting the captain in that manner and say you'll be more conscientious about your responsibilities and prioritize better. It will be your first step in gaining her respect and she'll probably be more conscience of the way she gives an order.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 8:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:08:20 -0500

You need to attempt to work it out with the nurse in private and in a professional manner. Addressing her as required, try to explain what your duty and intent are and what is the proper way to address those issues. If her attitude continue to be the same let her know that you will bring the issue to your supervisor and then do so. If this persist ask your supervisor for an audience with the first SGM in the chain of support and them ask him to assist you in bringing the issue to the chain of command and the IG if necessary.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 8:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:28:15 -0500

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 8:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:29:05 -0500

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Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 8:34 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:34:36 -0500

Sounds like they are treating you the same way they treat " nurse aides" on the outside. Good luck.

Response by SSG Vivian Pearson made Feb 11 at 2016 8:42 AM

SSG Vivian Pearson — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 08:42:29 -0500

Anything that has to do with patient care should be reported. I'm sorry your little sham shield feelings got hurt by the CPT suck it up buttercup. It may not be right the way she is saying things to you, but has she told you to do anything against the law, harmful to yourself or your troops? It not then give her the respect she deserves. The respect she gives you is earned. As shift leader you should have already known that the blanket warmer was empty and asked the nurses if the carts needed restocked. Evaluate yourself before you go blaming someone else.

Response by TSgt Amy Davis made Feb 11 at 2016 9:06 AM

TSgt Amy Davis — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 09:06:25 -0500

She obviously doesn't work for you, or care for you. File an IG complaint since what you're doing isn't working and the more you complain, the more it could backfire and affect your career and you don't want that. Sounds like she's been getting away with it for quite some time. Hopefully the IG complaint will fix her attitude! Good Luck!

Response by PFC Kevin Knapp made Feb 11 at 2016 9:49 AM

PFC Kevin Knapp — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 09:49:06 -0500

Its not optimal, but the interaction you describe happens every single day in the infantry. At least she doesn't have you beat your face every time she sees you. You've heard you don't have to like it, you just have to do it, right?

This is the military - not the association of warm hugs.

Response by SPC Michael Smith made Feb 11 at 2016 10:02 AM

SPC Michael Smith — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:02:30 -0500

This is precisely why i got out of the military. People like this are the reason a lot of enlisted get out. They are like 12 year old school kids presented with the oppprunity to be a hall monitor and go all out full throttle. Its like they have never had a position of responsibilty, and then they are in charge of something. You just have to put up with the person, and let them weave their own rope to hang themsevles.

Response by SSgt Tim Horton made Feb 11 at 2016 10:18 AM

SSgt Tim Horton — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:18:03 -0500

Having been in your same situation - although 25 years ago and in the USAF - I have to say simply - Man Up. You are in the Army, not the peace corp.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 11:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:05:01 -0500

Buy her a drink after work. Work that magic baby!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 11:11 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:11:33 -0500

I feel you, you feel as though you were disrespected. Newsflash, youre a Specialist. You are the one meant to do things like stock blankets and whatnot. Guess what? Your job wasnt done and I'd be mad too if i saw you on a computer. Things like the blanket warmers need to be taken care of, before you complain about someone jumping you to do something. Especially an officer. Because even with all the fancy titles, at the end of the day, you're still a Specialist and she is still a Cpt. And you didn't have your job done.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 11:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:32:16 -0500

DRIVE ON SOLDIER

Response by SPC Becky Torgerson made Feb 11 at 2016 11:36 AM

SPC Becky Torgerson — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 11:36:56 -0500

I was a e-nothing in San Antonio, and as most people know, it is crammed with officers. Saluting them all would have made our arms fall off. So the officers didn't care, they were there for school. One day I had my eyes dilated, because I was getting glasses. I was walking with a buddy, because I couldn't see well, and a 2nd Lieutenant stopped me and demanded I salute her, I said sorry SIR, I apologies sir. She was so mad, my friend mentioned why I couldn't see, she was so pissed. My buddy and I were laughing, and so were the other officers with her LOL

Response by PO1 Kenneth Cardwell made Feb 11 at 2016 12:24 PM

PO1 Kenneth Cardwell — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 12:24:02 -0500

Remind them Respect is a 2 way street! Ask the question."Without the Enlisted personnel, where would you and the other officer do or be?"

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2016 12:48 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 12:48:29 -0500

First off, this may be a culminating event, maybe you are not as good as you think you are at your job. I get that its an E6 position, however if that is your defense then leave the Army now because that is all the Army does, put people in positions that they are not qualified for. In my experience with being a prior medic that worked in hospitals, i can say most nurses are assholes, some are not. Military or civilian they have this weird complex that makes them feel like they are better than everyone else. Plus in the military they get the rank of a commissioned officer, same goes with the Docs. Most of them have no real leadership ability, they are commissioned based on their job and the fact the Army needs to pay them well to retain them. Ive seen nurses get picked up off the street and get MAJ just because they had like 15 yrs of experience. She could not even clear her weapon at the range when it jammed. There are of course exceptions to this rule and I have seen this as well. I hardly ever saw medical personnel do anything well that is "army" Land nav, range, pt or even showing up with a set of armor that looks respectable. My advice, go warrant you will be happier and never have to deal with them ever again.

Response by SSgt Reginald Allen made Feb 11 at 2016 3:33 PM

SSgt Reginald Allen — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 15:33:39 -0500

I can understand what you are saying. I was stationed in Korea and we had a captain who would verbally abuse the crew chief launching the plane. well one day he made his way to my plan (A-10) and he started with the abuse. and I calmly said you know you should be nice to the crew chief because once your in the plane they can make sure the plane don't come back. He had a look on his face and started bringing little bags of candy out. He realized that he couldn't do his job if we didn't do ours

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 11 at 2016 4:30 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:30:27 -0500

Document document document

Response by SP6 John Cable made Feb 11 at 2016 4:56 PM

SP6 John Cable — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:56:50 -0500

My grandpa told me son if you are wrong stand and take your medicine.if you are right stand and fight,in this case you are right

Response by Sgt John Ervin made Feb 11 at 2016 6:16 PM

Sgt John Ervin — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:16:11 -0500

Treat the bitch with some respect, salute and follow orders. You are enlisted, she is an officer. If you do not do what you are told, you can loose pay and stripes.. Get used to it, you are in the army now.

Response by SPC Mike Garcia made Feb 11 at 2016 6:18 PM

SPC Mike Garcia — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:18:10 -0500

SPC (P) souza that is the attitude of many although not all officers I have had many an LT platoon leader come up to me as a supply person and demand their paperwork be done next and i tell them i will get to it as soon as possible and they demanded again I simply responded with and i SAID SIR WHEN I AM DONE IT will get done and he took me before the CO commander and i explained to the CO I will stop your paperwork to complete his but yours may not get done in a timely manner. the CO explained to the LT his paperwork had priority over his and if he needed it done as he should have brought it by sooner or had one of his soldiers do it.

Response by SSgt Darla Adams made Feb 11 at 2016 8:51 PM

SSgt Darla Adams — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:51:14 -0500

I really can't imagine that you even thought for one second that you speaking to that officer was appropriate. Would you have addressed a male officer in the same manner. I bet not. Much as any of us had to endure ignorant and idiots with rank above ours, we still were taught to endure. You would have impressed me more by taking your complaint to that Captains' commander. I'm surprised if you didn't receive any disciplinary action cause you're the one who stuck your neck out on that one. That doesn't make her right by any means. My point is it doesn't matter who was right at that moment, it matters that you presented it to someone who did have authority to do something about it. You had no authority and you might be lucky she didn't pull that rank out and really stomp you with it. Then you the one who is stuck with the problem. Hope you understood what I was trying to say.

Response by PO3 David Persons made Feb 11 at 2016 9:53 PM

PO3 David Persons — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 21:53:26 -0500

There is a shock - another case of an automatic 90 day wonder being and acting like an automatic loser with more authority than they know how to handle, or in this case a 8 day wonder since I am sure that if she had any officer training at all it was probably the minimal course for direct commission officers -

Response by MSgt Jack Giralico made Feb 11 at 2016 11:44 PM

MSgt Jack Giralico — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 23:44:20 -0500

I feel your pain, Specialist. I ran into that a couple of times in my career. Once, from a 1Lt when I was a SSgt. Best bet is to keep your professionalism. If you've complained to your SFC and noting has been done, chances are that if you pursue it much further it will not end well for you. Not fair, but just the way things are. Keep doing the best job you can; yessir and no mam; maintain professionalism when around your troops, especially where the erring officers are concerned, and wait it out. One or the other of you will transfer out eventually.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 12:26 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 00:26:12 -0500

Inconsiderate is the key word.

Many of the posts below are quite disturbing especially coming from people who hold the rank of an NCO.

Remember Leadership is a quality and statement, not rank. Take notes "minutes format" and be precise.

An old battle buddy of mine made me make a poster and put it up on my wall, the poster read "Think positive, and f*** everything else that does not matter".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 5:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 05:52:59 -0500

having been in both positions I understand your frustration. I think you are owed the respect. go to your CSM let them put the boot out for you. they can and will go to bat for you with their counterpart the hospital commander. Enlisted are the backbone of the military and Officers are supposed to support Enlisted Soldiers. Just make sure you've gone through your chain before you go to the CSM.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 12 at 2016 6:45 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:45:16 -0500

Not to pick on officers, I was a commanders driver for 10 yrs., but some officers can be real pains, and some can be really great friends.

Response by MAJ Doug Rasor made Feb 12 at 2016 10:21 AM

MAJ Doug Rasor — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:21:48 -0500

Respect is earned it's not inherent because of rank, title or position. I'm prior enlisted and throughout my career, officer or enlisted, I ran into many who out ranked me that were just like the Captain you described. I was always respectful but that by no means did they receive my respect. No that whether military or civilian you will deal with folks like this throughout your life. I'd just suck it up and drive on.

Response by AA Jason Bloomer made Feb 12 at 2016 1:16 PM

AA Jason Bloomer — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:16:56 -0500

As a veteran from the hospital corps in the navy I experienced the same from my nurse corps officers. I am seeking a commission as a nurse corps officer this fall and on behalf of my profession I apologize for these actions. This type of behavior is unacceptable for any commissioned officer let alone a registered nurse. Every member of the armed services from e-1 to the joint chiefs of staff deserve the same amount of respect.

Response by PO1 Kevin Phillips made Feb 12 at 2016 1:20 PM

PO1 Kevin Phillips — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:20:46 -0500

ask for office hours and take it all the way up the command.. as your position you should command respect as well as a senior enlisted. granted some officers forget where they come from and think they are gods or better... that is why the office hours start recording the conversations and take it to the boss in charge I agree tact is a great thing and used wisely can change many outcomes but if this the whole command not much is going to change

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 6:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:30:51 -0500

I don't care if you do work in a hospital the Army is Army, but I also think you handled that very tactfully. You did what was asked then you approached your problem with it later good job on that! I'd go all the way to the top and fry that bitch if I could!
POGs

Response by SPC Daniel Bowen made Feb 12 at 2016 8:38 PM

SPC Daniel Bowen — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:38:55 -0500

I agree with both Maj Shaun Stanton and CPT Mark Gonzalez on the matter. It is unfortunate that in this situation this officers leadership skills are lacking. A lawful order could have been given, but knowing exactly what this officer is responsible for may change the tide. Its also one thing to delegate responsibilities, but its another to completely ignore yours and pass the buck by the use of rank. Sticking it out and following the orders is your best option. In the end if the officer is wrong, they will eventually bury themselves. Many officers of that rank (even in the medical field) are younger and in many cases our boot laces carry more life experiences that they do, but that does not give us the right to step all over them in retaliation. Following the orders (lawful orders) will only lead you and your team to success. Your work will be noticed in one way or another, and over time, if she continues this in the manner she did as you stated above, she will bury herself and be reprimanded.

Chances are you will not hear or even see it happen, but one day you might see changes in her behavior. As Sgt Aaron Kennedy stated, "Sometimes it's about approach, sometimes it's about TACT." Could you have presented your professional concerns differently? Could you have explained her tone in a manner in which if she was talked down by her chain of command, how would she view it? You may have done it all in the best way you could, but again this isn't uncommon. It's the nature of the beast. Each solider (officer or enlisted) is of their own character and sometimes it takes time or experience to learn better leadership traits.

Just keep doing what you're doing. Listen to the lawful orders given but also continue to watch out for your teams priorities and well-being. And do not forget to annotate the suspected wrong-doing. Enough proper reports and evidence can grant a solid argument over time.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 9:38 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:38:40 -0500

I've seen this sort of behavior before from commissioned officers in the Nursing Corps in the AF. One was so abusive of the enlisted technicians that a female Staff Sergeant punched her in the face and knocked her out. The Captain recovered...the Staff Sergeant didn't. So, couch the words you use with her in private and gear them towards perceptions: of her, the Nursing Corps, the Medical Corps, and even the entire hospital. Always in private, and always respectful.

Response by SGT Clinton Huey made Feb 12 at 2016 10:58 PM

SGT Clinton Huey — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:58:45 -0500

It doesn't get any better in the civilian world brother! But at least you can tell that nurse to go fuck themselves! Unless you have that pretty piece of paper that says you're a BSN you will never get respect

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Feb 13 at 2016 8:28 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 08:28:00 -0500

I would have to say if you felt disrespected by an officer then you need to get over it.

Response by SGT Chris Tilton made Feb 13 at 2016 9:53 AM

SGT Chris Tilton — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 09:53:55 -0500

so this is what the military has come to.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2016 10:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:07:33 -0500

I'am at lost for words. first of all, a nurse is a person who should be showing empathy, compasion, love and care in a health care setting, not acting as a drill sgt, by doing so she is jeopardizing the lives of the people she is supossed be to caring for...in the health care setting the client care is a team effort and everyone single person on that team deserves respect. Apparently there is a history between the two of you since you have been going at it for over 9 months, and when worker cannot do their work comfortably the clients are the ones paying for it, sometimes with their lives im sure you heard the saying "Dr and Nurses burry their mistakes" therefore, something needs to be done asap. make sure you follow your chain of command, have all your report, complaints, and witnesses because you are not in a motorpool you are dealing with lives there for christ sakes.

Response by Maj Rob Drury made Feb 13 at 2016 11:30 AM

Maj Rob Drury — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:30:13 -0500

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2016 1:05 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 13:05:11 -0500

possibly a good example of the medical field officers. Direct commissioned medical people with very little experience ..specifically respecting your enlisted peeps. Being prior enlisted.. I have had to mentor new officers nurses and docs. Most of the time .. They just do not know....

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2016 2:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 14:10:44 -0500

Okay you may hold the position of an E6, but you're still a SPC. Even if you were an actual E6 and have gone through SSD1, BLC, SSD2, and ALC and the various boards needed to achieve the rank you would still be an enlisted soldier being told what to do by someone of higher rank/stature. Regardless of how you may have perceived their tone, you just go ahead and do the task at hand because thats what you do. Sure she may have asked it the wrong way, but it doesn't matter because at the end of the day she's an officer and you aren't. It seems like you handled the situation in a calm and professional manner, and good on you but it really isn't that big of a deal to just go and follow a lawful order in the first place.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 13 at 2016 2:30 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 14:30:58 -0500

One time I found out an NCO in the brigade treated my soldier poorly verbally. I tracked him down and told he has choice a (preferred) A. Apologize to my soldier B. Explain to his Armor CSM why the Finance Commander was pissed at him. I think you will know what route he took. I was not going to abuse my soldiers, and I expected nobody else to either. End of transmission.

Response by MSgt Frank Graham made Feb 13 at 2016 4:14 PM

MSgt Frank Graham — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:14:13 -0500

Welcome to my world. I've been a lab tech in the USAF and have had to put up with plenty of Arrogant self important Assholes. It doesn't get any better in the Civilian world. You have to pick your battles. When I was a young sergeant my boss, also a Captain asked me to tell him what the troops thought of him. I said I'd rather not say. He pestered me. So I asked for permission to speak freely and he said yes. I said frankly sir they think you're an asshole. I saw him turn crimson red and next thing I know I up for Courts Martial. The commander called me in and shook his head. HE sat me down. He said Frank let's talk about tact. Everyone knows he's an asshole, but you're not supposed to tell him. I said well someone should because he doesn't know. Every thing went as usual and eventually left that assignment. I don't recommend that course of action, but I believe in Karma. You'll see it in your lifetime. If you treat other badly it comes back double. Pick your battles and best of luck. Just try to keep the idiots from killing anyone. That's what lab and other techs do. We keep the Doctors and nurses from killing people. Best of luck and welcome to life. No one gets out alive just survive as long as you can !

Response by Capt Jessica Murray made Feb 13 at 2016 6:50 PM

Capt Jessica Murray — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 18:50:37 -0500

Should have joined the USAF.... I was a medic and then became an O for the Blue... We talk with each other because communication creates better patient care. I'd suggest green to blue program. Im sorry your Capt. Doesn't know how to be an effect MEDICAL leader. There is a big difference between a military leader and a military MEDICAL leader. I can see you know that ma'am. Good luck!!!! Keep putting education, safety, patient care and your troops first and your will never go wrong.

Response by 1LT Lea Callais made Feb 13 at 2016 7:25 PM

1LT Lea Callais — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:25:50 -0500

Suck it up and do your job. No one said you have to be nice in the military.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 12:52 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 00:52:32 -0500

I guess the medical field is a bit different than the rest of the Army. Sometimes people suck and there isnt anything you can do to fix it. Bottom line is you are a SPC and she is a CPT so long as you she doesn't demean with her words (call you names or talk bad about for no reason) you get to deal with it. It is actually her privilege to talk to you that way. RHIP my friend, sorry thems the breaks, grow up, people suck, and the world isnt fair. Good form; protecting your joes but you lost this battle.

Response by CDR Don Schomer made Feb 14 at 2016 9:55 AM

CDR Don Schomer — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 09:55:08 -0500

You are not wrong. As a mustang I've been on both sides of the fence, both sides should treat each other with respect. Your SFC should have carried your concern up the chain to have this resolved. This will only lead to a them vs us mindset and is not healthy for team building and you all are a team.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Feb 14 at 2016 10:57 AM

PO2 Seth Carron — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 10:57:32 -0500

Sounds like the captain was a civilian the day before, she let the rank get to her head. It's obvious when a superior comes around the corner and as soon as they see someone under them just assume they have to pull the get back to work routine

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 1:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:34:28 -0500

IG. They deal with complaints for soldiers not being treated with dignity all the time.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 1:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:38:55 -0500

I say put the e-4 mofia to work and do what e-4's do best show your officers that, that hospital can't run without you

Response by SFC John McGill made Feb 14 at 2016 1:40 PM

SFC John McGill — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:40:06 -0500

Stop acting like a pussy and soldier on

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 4:12 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:12:43 -0500

This is why nurses should not be officers in my opinion.

Response by SGT Francis Wright made Feb 14 at 2016 5:01 PM

SGT Francis Wright — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:01:19 -0500

Write to your congressional representative, a congressional investigation always gets everyone's attention.

Response by PO3 Bobby Jones made Feb 14 at 2016 5:12 PM

PO3 Bobby Jones — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:12:16 -0500

Suck it up. You were given a lawful order. Do it, and stop being a little bitch.

Response by LCpl Daniel R. Casey made Feb 14 at 2016 5:29 PM

LCpl Daniel R. Casey — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:29:24 -0500

Sometimes we have a few hot heads to deal with. I've always found it more advisable to follow orders rather then disobey an order. It's hard sometimes to appreciate the bigger picture. The fact remains we attacked no one prior to 9/11/2001. We were attacked going back to 1983. That we somehow kept our sanity thru all the confusion in the intervening years is the true test of our metal.

Do your job without asking, get some sleep when you can. I know it's not an easy task. Been there done that, which is why I still on my best nights I get between 3 and 4 hours sleep. We do what we have to do, we make it work and we never quit. Nuff said.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 5:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:53:03 -0500

You are a United States Soldier, if someone's tone affects you that much you should get out and get a civilian job where the HR department can handle these things. This is why we have to have MRT and classes on hazing. Say Rog' Ma'am and carry the hell on, those things probably should have been stocked without her telling you to do it anyway. If I saw a couple of Soldiers messing around on a computer when things weren't getting done I honestly don't care what you were doing I would have laid into both of you for failing to perform your implied duties.

Response by LTC Eric Erkkinen made Feb 14 at 2016 7:33 PM

LTC Eric Erkkinen — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:33:11 -0500

From a retired chaplain...for what it's worth. Some people, regardless of rank, treat others with disrespect. I was treated poorly by a senior 06 chaplain who was also my rater. Lost promotion and retired. Advice: relish the people who care, respect, and support you. Stand your ground respectfully even for those whose power is merely positional. PCS changes every few years. Idiots abound wherever you go.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 7:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:53:43 -0500

I'm seeing a lot of veterans posting "suck it up". Here's what I'm going to say. Yes, in most places that would make sense. However, I can also tell most of you do not work in a TDA Hospital. There is a totally different style of interacting. Working in a hospital the way that people are treated has a direct impact on patient safety. If a surgeon constantly throws tools at me every time I speak I'm less likely to tell them when I see something that could be a safety issue because I'm worried about having something thrown at me. A suggestion is to talk to your TeamSTEPPS champion, and have them help you out with a DESC conversation. It's a simple way of talking to someone about what you view as a concern, but it takes the emotion out. Everything is turned into a fact based conversation. That being said, she is still a commissioned officer, and must be treated as such. Show her the respect that is due to her, and always be a professional. It will help you go far.

Response by PO2 William Peters made Feb 14 at 2016 8:40 PM

PO2 William Peters — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:40:41 -0500

although she might of used better tact, having worked in an emergency room, both on and off of active duty I can tell you that the nurse was assessing the situation at hand and as I would agree felt that having the clinic stocked and ready if something had happened was far more important than the training that you were conducting at the time. Use it as a learning experience, as a person in a leadership position you have to look at the bigger picture. I don't think the captain was in the wrong, because she was looking at the mission, and you were doing something good, but it could of waited to be done until a better time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2016 10:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:18:11 -0500

I can't really help you. Being a National Guard Medic I find myself sometimes telling officers what they need to do. We have that understanding that they have their job and I have mine. I will do everything in my power to make their job easier, but it's a two way street. But what gets me is even tho we drill one weekend a month we do PHA's and see anywhere from 600 to 1000 SM in 2 days. When it's time to clean and restock the officers are right there helping. Every officer in our unit are PA's and/or head nurse in there civilian jobs. So sorry I can not help just wanted to point out the difference. But you can always ask if she has a meeting to go to. I am wondering if your at Ft Gordon GA.

Response by 1SG George Endicott made Feb 15 at 2016 11:56 AM

1SG George Endicott — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:56:15 -0500

I am sorry...this is another post I keep passing over and it keeps popping up; so I feel I just have to comment. Ok, it was a HUGE pet peeve of mine...so I will address it here. AR 600-8-19, Chapter 1-5,c. (December 18, 2015) states: "Once Soldiers are fully trained and educated, meet ALL PREREQUISITES FOR PROMOTION PIN-ON and are established as promotable to the next rank, they are promoted in support of satisfying Army requirements." Chapter 7, Section VIII, 7-37: Soldiers in the selection objective...are considered "promotable" while on the list..." BLUF: SPC/CPLs competing for promotion to SGT and SGTs competing for promotion to SSG have only met all of the requirements to PIN-ON the next rank once they have met the decentralized promotion system requirement of meeting the promotion point requirement, published monthly. Therefore, one can only be a SPC/CPL or SGT "promotable" once one has met ALL requirements to pin-on, including points. Everything BUT points is simply a conditional requirement to COMPETE for promotion and is NOT the same thing as being PROMOTABLE (having met ALL requirements for pin-on). This nonsensical notion of SPC(P) and SGT(P) has driven me nuts for decades. Unless one has a very rare circumstance, once can only be a SPC(P) or SGT(P) for about 30 days. The designation (P) has a place in the personnel system and should be used appropriately. Finally, even SSG, SFC, MSG and 1SG's are highly limited by regulation when they can even include the (P) designation once they have been placed on a centralized promotion list. (Chapter 7-37, AR 600-8-19). NCO's: know the standards; you are the standard bearers and professionals.

Response by PO3 Marsha Thurmond made Feb 15 at 2016 10:17 PM

PO3 Marsha Thurmond — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:17:51 -0500

This makes me happy I left the military some days. Everyone gave excellent advice. I just offer my support as an ex-enlisted sailor who had a degree prior to enlisting. I chose not to go to OCS, because I didn't plan on making it a career. Good luck and Godspeed.

Response by SFC Juan Santiago made Feb 16 at 2016 7:15 AM

SFC Juan Santiago — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:15:48 -0500

I would use the chain of command and see the hospital commander so the issue can be addressed with staff at the monthly meetings. Revord all the incidents date, time, and where and who was present. Also the 1stSgt can do a lot in a case like that. The Captain should be remained that the NCO's are the backbone of the army and to respect them.

Response by 1SG Billy Philley made Feb 16 at 2016 10:14 AM

1SG Billy Philley — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:14:31 -0500

As a 1SG, I have lost my shit when I've seen this . I once chewed a 2LT out for treating a young PFC as if he were a vassal or serf. He had this kid getting his gear for him , etc.
There are many more good officers than bad , but the bad always stand out. True leaders lead from the front, not from the rear. Any good officer or in CEO will exemplify "Be, Know, Do."
I would advise sitting down and talking, one on one. There has to be a mutual respect, and an officer should know that good NCOs are the backbone of any organization.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2016 10:34 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:34:20 -0500

I wish I could tell you it gets better the truth of the matter is that plenty of clinical providers come into the military and get handed rank like its candy and don't have any idea how to work with junior leaders. She sounds like a piece of work I am a MS officer with 16 years in I have seen some providers get it but most don't and its gonna suck more if your SFC doesn't step up and protect you.

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made Feb 18 at 2016 1:53 PM

SGT Shawn Schweinberg — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:53:11 -0500

Like I was saying before: Sometimes there is nothing you can do about toxic leaders. Sometimes all you can do is keep your soldiers from falling prey to such leaders. If this officer gets in your face all the time about little things then fix all the little things before this person has a chance to get empowered while treating you like trash. always be one step ahead of this person. Don't give them an in to pick on you or your soldiers. and you may be in the position of a SSG but at the end of the day your a Specialist and that's what this person is always going to see. I feel your pain I was a young E3 soldier once and in a Staff Sergeants position and treated like crap. Granted I was too young to understand. we had a toxic LT that loved bulling his NCO's and us the joe's. Unit moral Fell like a stone. Even had a joe threaten this officers life once while in the field. The issue for us was we could do nothing about this guy. couldn't talk back or complain because the NCO's in charge let themselves get pushed around by this guy as well. We had to ride it out and look out for each other. and that's what you got to do for your soldiers. Mitigate the contact this officer has with your soldiers and always be on top of your area and any area this officer likes to get huffy about. But understand a toxic leader will not change unless a good leader is in position to correct their crap. So no matter what you do this person will always be a crappy leader. You just got to keep yourself motivated and on the mission. Because if you fail or fall this officer will be there to pounce. I hope this helped a little bit and if it didn't let me know.

Have a great day and keep your chin up and remember Officers may lead but you run the place! nothing moves without you being who you are.

Response by CPO Michael Butler made Feb 26 at 2016 2:51 AM

CPO Michael Butler — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 02:51:10 -0500

The one thing to remember during your Military career is that Gold is thicker than blood. You will never win in a disagreement with a "0" they will stick together no matter what. The best advice that I can give is to just suck it up and realize that they will probably rotate before long. and then you will probably get a better '0' that will know that respect is a 2 way street.

Response by SFC Dean Wyman made Feb 28 at 2016 9:13 AM

SFC Dean Wyman — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 09:13:50 -0500

The military needs to remove commisioning for nurses and doctors. Make them gs-40 sumthin' but for God's sake remove ANY military authority from there petty little egoes. It's the "Hot Lips Hollihan and Frank Burns" syndrome without the comedy.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Mar 1 at 2016 12:10 PM

SSG Ronald Colwell — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:10:11 -0500

Let it go, do not create waves, suck it up

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:45:56 -0400

You will find "toxic" and unprofessional individuals at all levels, Officer, Warrant, NCO. My recommendation is to pick your battles as only you know what your career can handle. If a person is too extreme or toxic their reputation will begin to precede them and ultimately be their undoing. We had a colonel here that was very toxic - and it cost him what he wanted the most, a star. His reputation caught the attention of very high people and they ended his quest. Captain Toxic may have a project he is responsible for at some point and his future may ride on it. The people that need to make his project work may be the ones he's stepped on. How fast and how successful the project is completed and how they make Captain Toxic look will all come back to haunt him

Response by SGM William Vernon made Mar 31 at 2016 4:46 PM

SGM William Vernon — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:46:34 -0400

Before you go to your commander have you brought this up with you Chief Clinical SGM? Try all the chain before going to the top of it.

Response by SSG Chad Simmons made Aug 3 at 2016 10:11 AM

SSG Chad Simmons — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 10:11:58 -0400

Carry on and leave the issue to his chain of command, at least he has started a "paper trail" if this Officer was out of line, however the order was legal so get in on.

Response by PFC Garry Tarvin made Aug 7 at 2016 5:32 PM

PFC Garry Tarvin — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 17:32:12 -0400

I suggest going to your "safe place" for a time out, and call hilary, she will fight for you...

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Aug 27 at 2017 4:15 PM

SFC Oddie Brown — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 16:15:48 -0400

I had an old 1SG tell me years ago that there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. For the future when you come to work get those things done first that you know she looks for. Don't give her an excuse to beret you. I am not saying she is right if she does. Leaders are born and not made. This may be her style so get used to it. When the time is right, ask her if she has any special instructions or guidance for the day. You will be training her and she won't realize it. Team work can take care of many problems. Good luck.

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Aug 27 at 2017 5:11 PM

SFC Joseph Lumpkins — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:11:40 -0400

I guess I don't get it, I served for 21 years and retired in 2002 as a SFC and I worked with good officers and bad officers, so you as a SPC should do as told. You are not an NCO and other than talking to your enlisted leadership their is not a lot you can do. You're lucky that the CPT did not lock your heels and read you the riot act. Use it as a leaning lesson and next time that you deal with this particular CPT do your job and do it professionally and maybe the CPT will begin to understand that they don't have to be a jerk, but it is it your place to talk to them.

Response by Capt Bob Soldner made Aug 27 at 2017 5:17 PM

Capt Bob Soldner — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:17:10 -0400

Always be respectful to others and satisfactorily complete the mission assigned. Consider the source, put on your Big Boy pants and suck it up! Semper Fi!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 5:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:17:38 -0400

Based on the story you just told, you handled the situation correctly.

Response by SP6 Cajun Ray made Aug 27 at 2017 5:28 PM

SP6 Cajun Ray — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:28:10 -0400

When I was deployed to Iraq with a CaSH, I was one of only two E6 Department NCOICs. One day I was about to walk out of the ER after completing the task I was there for, on my way out the E7 NCOIC of ER told me to sweep the ER floor.

I responded, "Sergeant, first, I don't work for you. Second, although I may ONLY be a Staff Sergeant, I still hold the same positional authority as you do. Sweep the floor yourself."

Response by SP6 Cajun Ray made Aug 27 at 2017 5:32 PM

SP6 Cajun Ray — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:32:46 -0400

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Aug 27 at 2017 5:36 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:36:50 -0400

You don't want to know what I would do. I am a former 11B3P who doesn't give a sheisse.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Aug 27 at 2017 5:40 PM

SP5 Peter Keane — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 17:40:07 -0400

Your profile shows you to be at Madigan. I was brought in with a fractured patella, casted up and warded. The HN learned I was a medic and handed me cruthces and a sphygmomanometer. So I kinda get you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 6:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:03:44 -0400

The actions should have been to punch her in the throat and then ask her to repeat herself.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 6:21 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:21:22 -0400

I was National Guard for 9 years before I went to Army reserve. I worked my way to officer. I resent the point about getting commissioned off the street. Yeah maybe she was a tiny bit off point in how she responded. But when I see people sitting around and there is work to be done, I would be irritated too.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 6:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:39:13 -0400

Unfortunately sometimes people suck. I have seen a lot of RNs that refuse to do certain tasks they feel are below them. Not everyone is a great leader, but if you go through certain channels complaining, you may experience adverse outcomes. Sometimes you've just got to be the bigger person and take that leader as an example of what not to do. You should tread carefully and strive to be a good example to your subordinate Soldiers.

Response by CSM William Payne made Aug 27 at 2017 7:35 PM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 19:35:26 -0400

I disagree with the premise that a superior (officer in this case) cannot disrespect a subordibate.

While a First Sergeant in a basic training company at Fort Jackson, we were rehearsing for a retreat ceremony. The battalion ops officer a major, had a problem with one of the companies during the rehearsal and proceeded to chew out the First Sergeant in front of God and everybody, including his trainees.

I forget the issue, but in the scheme of things, it was not THAT big a deal. And the source, this major wasn't exactly the paragon example of an outstanding Soldier, his BDUs were so faded they could have been used for winter camis. There was a pattern of treatment of Cadre in this particular battalion as the CSM liked to do the same thing.

I was the senior First Sergeant and the First Sergeant in question was one of the youngest. After the rehearsal, I ran the major down and asked if I could talk to him offline. Standing at parade rest and with all the military discipline I could muster, I explained to the major the ramifications of his action could have on the Cadre and the Command atmosphere of the units as far as how the trainees thought and respected their leadership. We had a lengthy conversation in which yes he did indeed use his rank as his validation for his action.

The strange thing is from that day on, for the rest of the cycle, he seemed to seek me out anytime he was in my AO to check to see how things were going. We had no more problems with him. The CSM . . . That's another story.

There is indeed a right and wrong way to address issues in the military. Sometimes due to battlefield expediency, things need to be done. But if it doesn't involve a matter of life or death, embarrassing a leader, acNCO or a Junior officer in a public forum is just piss poor leadership for people on a power trip.

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Aug 27 at 2017 7:40 PM

SSG Will Phillips — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 19:40:09 -0400

If it has not changed in 30 years, your chain of command has an "Open Door Policy". Learn exactly what your chain of command is. Then use it only if your being wrongfully disrespected and feel that nothing is being don't to address your issues. Make damn sure that you are in the right before opening the can of worms.

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Aug 28 at 2017 12:42 AM

TSgt Denise Moody — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 00:42:19 -0400

My last day on duty the disrespect of one group towards another came to a head. The group being disrespected had had it and had finally said do something or we will resign. That managed to get the issue on the General in charge of human relations desk. All hell broke loose that day. Now this was between up and lower ranking enlisted and it was in the Guard...but it's the same thing. That nurse in particular, and any other officers in that hospital who are acting the same, is acing in an unprofessional manner. Maybe worse. The situation should be brought to someone over the head of the highest offender. If that means the commander so be it. If the commander does nothing you take it further. This kind of stuff needs to be nipped in the bud, but good.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2017 7:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 07:51:09 -0400

Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and bear with it. Then there's other times that, regardless of rank, have to put your foot down and tell them what's up. I've had many instances where people senior to me have pulled rank as an excuse to justify lousy behavior. Stand your ground if you are in the right. If they want to escalate or if this is becoming a pattern, let the chain of command/NCO support channels know what's going on. When doing this, take the high road and be respectful.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2017 9:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:46:32 -0400

I would file an IG

Response by SGT Steven Hines made Aug 28 at 2017 10:31 AM

SGT Steven Hines — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:31:21 -0400

Just say yes mam and drive on. That's probably her normal sweet disposition. As long as she's not writing your EER, deal with it. Seen this more than once in my career. When she is passed over twice for promotion and gets out still a captain, that will be your answer.

Response by CPL Dean Jeffers made Aug 28 at 2017 2:03 PM

CPL Dean Jeffers — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:03:40 -0400

As far as the Duty position I applaud you. As a prior Medical Specialists you should have taken care in your training to make sure all of those duties were first taken care of as part of your training out line.
I was in a similar situation where senior ncos you 7 and Below all work for me. I had the full support of my chain of command all the way up to my Brigade Commander who was a one-star. If all of your tasks are completed prior to the training of your sop then you should shine to all your superiors.

Response by CPO Dave Royce made Apr 7 at 2018 8:55 PM

CPO Dave Royce — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 20:55:08 -0400

My suggestion would be use your chain of command, I don’t know what you call it in the Army, but in. The Navy we have Request Mast, which mean you request to speak to to your Co.
About this. Problem , Usually the problem resolved before you get your period opt usually the problem solved before you get your Co. You deserve the same respect as the respect you give . Hopefully this helps

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 2:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 02:47:02 -0400

your position does not make you special, and i hate to see people working on hospitals acting as if rank is different than in the rest of the army, just what you are told, if the words she said were exactly as you said, there was not disrespect from the CPT. know your place

Response by PO2 Michael Marquette made Aug 6 at 2018 2:43 PM

PO2 Michael Marquette — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 14:43:50 -0400

I hate hospitals. Worked at waltereed and had similar problems. I’m sorry to say. People only change when they want to. But saying that you can change which forces her to change. In that situation I would have stood up and told her right there and said. Yes mam we will stock the blankets after I’m done training my new soldier on ward safety and responsiblites. Unless you would prefer I wait to teach him that. She might not be happy with response but it’s not your job to make them. Happy. Remember patient care comes first. Always try to bring things back to patient care. One other problem you have is you haven’t done your time and being in such a high ranked position sets you up to be put in a position that without support can be almost impossible. So saying that find a SFC enlisted person in your chain. To talk to the whole nursing staff with you presses the. Explaining that you have the the rank of SFC. And if you disrespect him or the juniors under his charge. You are disrespecting me. These are my soldiers you not yours and if you have a problem with that we can take it up with my boss who should be the department head or direct if nursing. Another option which you might not like but I think you might actually need to help you deal with being in garrison at a hospital. Would be go set up an appointment with behavioral health let your chain know your fine just having trouble dealing with the constant disrespect from nurses and need to talk to someone about it. I only say this because if you suck it up then 4-6-10. Years down the road you will be seeing them anyways not because your frustrated but because you gave up and are desperate. If you deploy and come back it can get worse but always remember maintain military barring and stick to the facts. Don’t ever put yourself in a room one to one with any higher ranked person you will always lose. Always have a standby preaseant this will insure that your feelings and the information being conveyed is not interpreted as an attack or disrespect. One last bit of advice. Get a mentor, join an enlisted association and volunteer because this surrounds you with people who you can get more advice from and support you emotional to help you through your career and possible make changes at the higher levels because it’s not just your voice they here it’s a group of enlisted asking for change. the volenteering will clense your own anger by helping others in need and not let the gult take over you might have by asking for help. remember your the tip of the spear not the officer there in The back good luck.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 6 at 2018 4:33 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 16:33:45 -0400

1. Elevate it to the senior NCO at the Hospital, if that doesn't work then visit the Hospital CO on the open door policy- be sure to tell him that you and your E7 have tried everything else.

Response by SSG Joe Heilig made Aug 7 at 2018 12:44 PM

SSG Joe Heilig — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:44:08 -0400

Go up the chain of command to general in charge of the hospital if you have to

Response by 1SG John Pellegrin SR made Aug 7 at 2018 12:55 PM

1SG John Pellegrin SR — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 12:55:18 -0400

Salute the Officer and say have a nice day and leave.

Response by SFC Jim Hartley made Aug 7 at 2018 6:36 PM

SFC Jim Hartley — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 18:36:56 -0400

I think I would set her up for failure and then she would want to talk a little more respectful when she realizes she can't do without you.

Response by 1SG Lisa Carter made Aug 7 at 2018 10:17 PM

1SG Lisa Carter — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:17:15 -0400

Ad a retired 1SG, I will give you the same advice I use to give my soldiers , if you don’t like who is in charge do your job, so you can move up and be in charge! Sometimes you do have to just suck it up, and push forward! I would not make a bigger deal out of this , learn to pick your battles, trust me there will be much bigger battles to fight!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2018 8:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:41:35 -0400

First off try your best to resolve any and all issues at the lowest level possible. Have you, your peers and subordinates spoken to your 1SG? Or CDR? If they or your SGM and BN CDR don't rectify the situation go talk to your Chaplin for advise. Remember document every incident if the work environment stays the same or gets worse file a IG complaint. After that If there is retribution file a congressional with your IG office. They are thinning the herd.

Response by Maj Robert Garlow made Aug 10 at 2018 12:43 AM

Maj Robert Garlow — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 00:43:12 -0400

Take it to the Commanding officer of the hospital!!! Present your case and have backup including others; like those being mistreated!!!

Response by SFC Scott MacGlashin made Aug 11 at 2018 8:50 PM

SFC Scott MacGlashin — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:50:32 -0400

You were correct to go to your SFC first. You have a valid point and if there is no resolution at that point, request to speak to your 1SG. Use your NCO chain. I’m not sure how the Air Force NCO support system works compared to the Army’s, but i’m Sure thi Capt. does not want it to go to SGM, or CSM level to be addressed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2018 1:57 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 01:57:11 -0400

Always follow the chain of command when addresing issues. That is when working it out directly has failed. Never jump the chain or you could wind up in a worse situation. The nice thing about officers is that they rotate through positions about every two years. If they dont make the next rank they are asked to resign.

Response by Sgt Caleb Holmes made Aug 12 at 2018 11:04 PM

Sgt Caleb Holmes — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:04:15 -0400

Find yourself a mustang (an officer with prior enlisted experience). This is exactly what they are for. If any of your nurses or doctors served enlisted time before commissioning you should explain the situation to them. They will understand what your saying and chances are they have the respect of the other junior officers and will set them straight.

Response by SGT Chris Coates made Aug 15 at 2018 8:35 AM

SGT Chris Coates — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:35:02 -0400

Respect customs and courtesies and let your CSM upline deal with the ANC LTC or COL upline.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Aug 15 at 2018 10:01 AM

SFC Harry H. — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:01:38 -0400

Yes you are 100% in the wrong and should drop the subject. Unless it's life or limb threatening, unjust, or immoral, do it. The Army doesn't owe you an explanation and you do not have the right to ask why. Sometimes in the Military our feelings will get hurt and we don't agree with orders or the way commands are given. But in order to be the best Military in the world we don't have the time to question our NCO's or Officers nor do they have the time to answer them.

BTW, I am obviously no grammar major, minor or anything. But a helpful hint, start capitalizing Soldier.

Response by Cpl Christian Mills made Aug 17 at 2018 9:45 AM

Cpl Christian Mills — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 09:45:55 -0400

This can not be serious.. An officer tells 2 enlisted personnel to get to work and said enlisted persons are OFFENDED !!! WTF If an officer tells you to jump you better jump you "tard" Never have I heard such non-sense..

Response by FN Randy Emond made Aug 17 at 2018 10:17 AM

FN Randy Emond — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 10:17:26 -0400

Suck it up

Response by SP5 Steven Roth made Aug 17 at 2018 11:42 AM

SP5 Steven Roth — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 11:42:12 -0400

I would have handled it the same way

Response by TSgt Berry Bonds made Aug 17 at 2018 2:15 PM

TSgt Berry Bonds — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 14:15:27 -0400

Continue up the chain of command all the way to the hospital commander and if neccessary, beyond. As a retired E6 myself I had no less than 40 airmen and NCOs working directly under my immediate supervision and was never disrespected in the manner that you described.

Response by MSgt Willie Stovall made Aug 17 at 2018 4:48 PM

MSgt Willie Stovall — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 16:48:38 -0400

David It seem you haven't learn much about the military. I would suggest that if you are looking for respect, you just might be in the wrong career. That same attitude is common in every hospital I've been in. Not just the military. You EARN respect in any career field by your work ethic and mission accomplishment. If you wish respect for your position, do more than expected. Show up 15 Minutes early, stay 15 minutes over. Know your job better than anyone else. You should NOT need to be told to put blankets in the warmer or any other number of things the nurse told you about. Patent care is their responsibility. Stocking the supplies they use is yours if I'm reading this right.

Response by SSgt Ron Lindsey made Aug 18 at 2018 10:42 AM

SSgt Ron Lindsey — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:42:54 -0400

In both military and civilian positions, you will find abusive people in authority. Advising your reporting command is the best thing you can do. Sometimes avoiding as much as possible, but don’t allow any one keep you from doing your job. I had a manager that was technically the most informed in EE field, but had the interpersonal qualities of the South bound end of a North bound donkey! I was at a critical point in my career, could retire, but choose to tolerate it.(didn’t report directly)Turns out, I was asked to do development work that I knew needed to be done to meet Fed & State requirements! Worked peak yours of career, finished the task& found out later the HA had recommeded me for the assignment!

Response by SGT Mike Vary made Aug 18 at 2018 1:42 PM

SGT Mike Vary — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 13:42:39 -0400

All I can tell you is sh_t flows down hill and there are officers who are human beings yet still able to command your respect, and then there is the trash, you have to respect their rank but you do not have to respect them. The time always comes when people screw up big time, the ones who treated you with respect can count on your support, and the trash can expect you to hold the door open as they are run out on a rail!

Response by PO1 James Ryan made Aug 18 at 2018 3:33 PM

PO1 James Ryan — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 15:33:17 -0400

Just remember this... you could remove every officer in the military and it still would function; but there is no possible way it could function without the NCOs. You were right. Stick to your guns.

Response by SGT Nick Webber made Aug 18 at 2018 5:44 PM

SGT Nick Webber — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 17:44:37 -0400

There is an open door policy for a reason. Before going thru the chain, document all incidents. Talk with other soldiers about their treatment. Your the acting nco, but make sure your prepared for repercussions, they will happen..ie shitty details, duties. If all else fails call your branch manager and ask for orders.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2018 10:15 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 22:15:27 -0400

You did what you were supposed to do: complied with the order.
It appears the CPT believed you were goofing off, so put you to work performing tasks that were a higher priority.
Frankly, you permitted this perception by failing to ensure the blankets and carts were squared away before you began opportunity training. Further, you said nothing about her using profanity or other demeaning comments. Given the circumstances she did nothing wrong, but your attempt to dictate how she gave you the order was wrong.
Number of patients is not relevant. Performing in role normally performed by a SSG is not relevant.
The lesson you should have learned here is not whether officers or NCOs should speak with tact--they should-- rather, it should be "I won't get caught short again."
Finally, there is an opportunity here to excel. If a list of tasks, by priority, does not exist: create one. That way, you'll know when it's a good time to take advantage of opportunity training.

Response by SFC Wayne Leaman made Aug 19 at 2018 11:27 AM

SFC Wayne Leaman — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 11:27:05 -0400

Looks like most of the comments are right. After 31 years and 3 different MOS's, you just have to realize some people are assholes. You are doing the right thing... and keep on doing it and be an example for your leadership. It's frustrating, but they will notice. True change seems to come from soldiers who care.
SFC L (retired)

Response by SSgt Kathryn Prest made Aug 20 at 2018 6:03 PM

SSgt Kathryn Prest — Mon, 20 Aug 2018 18:03:20 -0400

I was a Law Enforcement Specialist and also was a Desk Sgt as an A1C. I was respectful of all Officers as were they to me. The only complaints the Airmen and NCO’s has was of 2nd Leautenants straight out of the Academy. I guess trying to”prove themselves”. Once I was making rounds at the Base Post Office and was reprimanded for being inside a bldg with my beret on. I calmly told him that before he reprimands anyone, he should know the rules and regulations. If you are carrying a weapon and go inside a bldg, you do not have to take off your beret.

Response by SGT Steve Bossler made Aug 21 at 2018 7:01 PM

SGT Steve Bossler — Tue, 21 Aug 2018 19:01:23 -0400

It sounds like more than just you is being disrespected. If there are many, then that would carry more weight with your superiors. I would ask my fellow soldiers to support you in a request for a meeting with your commander....where all of you could confront the offending nurse respectfully. As an infantry squad leader in Vietnam my men respected me....knowing their welfare was my main concern and I had a tough job to do. We knew we had to work together to survive. Rank is not a privilege....it's a responsibility. There has to be order and a chain of command....non-the-less, each and every person is important regardless of rank. If you can't get that point across, you can always ask politely for a transfer.

Response by PO1 Alan Sparks made Oct 9 at 2018 6:36 PM

PO1 Alan Sparks — Tue, 09 Oct 2018 18:36:33 -0400

If it was me, I would wait three days, and go talk to him about it, it may not work, but, at least you will have had your say.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 11:33 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 11:33:40 -0400

Document everything. Dates, times, significant subjects and disrespectful verbiage. Document the same for your soldiers. Dressing down a supervisor in front of their subordinates is not only deeply unprofessional, but also undermines leadership and discipline. Build a file over the course of a fiscal quarter and present your case to your chain of command.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 12:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:08:41 -0400

One issue in the army is that some people with rank disrespect people because they know the outcome remember your a human first.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 12:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 12:42:00 -0400

Get thicker skin. You may have felt "disrespected" but unless she demeaned you in some way then get up, give a roger and move out. Then finish the training. If that triggered you, then how are you going to react to an infantry platoon sergeant giving you "colorful" direction in combat?

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Aug 8 at 2019 2:08 PM

LCpl Jason Keiser — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:08:45 -0400

shes an indiot.

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Aug 8 at 2019 4:17 PM

SP5 Gary Smith — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:17:42 -0400

Put in for WO 1

Response by SPC Christopher Anderson made Aug 8 at 2019 5:01 PM

SPC Christopher Anderson — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:01:34 -0400

Could the Cpt. handled it better yes. But thats where this stops. You are a US ARMY Soldier and you and your fellow soldier were give a LAWFULL order by an officer. Suck it up, do your job, have a beer when you get off. Try crying like this in combat arms...... smdh

Response by PO1 Chuck Lankford made Aug 8 at 2019 5:56 PM

PO1 Chuck Lankford — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:56:09 -0400

You are not wrong in any way. MANY officers are not trained or instructed of the importance of senior enlisted personnel that have served loyally for many more years than they have ever seen. The expertise and knowledge of the enlisted they may never learn!!

Response by PO1 Bruce Abernathy made Aug 8 at 2019 6:20 PM

PO1 Bruce Abernathy — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 18:20:36 -0400

Think an E9 needs to eat some Capt ass

Response by LTC David Baird made Aug 8 at 2019 7:40 PM

LTC David Baird — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 19:40:37 -0400

You need to seek out your CSM.

Response by COL Ron Quiett made Aug 8 at 2019 8:00 PM

COL Ron Quiett — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:00:51 -0400

The thing to realize is Army Nurse. They don't do much leadership training and a hospital is a monster of it's own. Had a captain, dietitian, one time tell me how to lead my unit. After I stopped laughing, I told her that I was really disappointed that she was so unmilitary that she got to add Sir to that. I was 18 years in, an LTC, AND a combat arms officer. She ran to the hospital commands office to complain. He told her to get the hell out of his office. Again, hospitals are different.

Response by SFC Abel Candia made Aug 8 at 2019 9:20 PM

SFC Abel Candia — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 21:20:36 -0400

Sadly, we meet people like your nurses everywhere we go. Your job as a leader is to take care of NCO business. Let the officers take care of their business. Now is an excellent opportunity to teach your subordinates to always do their job to the best of their ability.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 10:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 22:41:44 -0400

5 years ago a CPT was rather dismissive of lower enlisted, to include myself. He did some shady stuff and was a guy that likes to remind enlisted if his rank.

Time came where an IG inquiry was actioned against him for EO against a female NCO. My deposition was requested because I was around that period of time as well.

Needless to say I threw him completely under the bus.

He’s still a CPT and I’m months away from being one myself.

There is a God, and her name is Karma.

Until we are high enough rank where we write the regulations every single one of our jobs is defined by regulations. Our left and right limits are handed to us on a silver platter via the regulations.

There is nothing more lethal than to an arrogant officer’s career than an enlisted soldier willing to play the game and knows the regulations.

As a reserve company commander I barely know how to run a company compared to my full time staff of NCOs. If I made their lives difficult the whole thing would collapse and my NCOs would have been the ones to give me the rope to hang myself. They’d even make it of silk, because officers get nothing but the best.

Stay in your lane. Do your job and make sure those you are responsible for do their job. Pissing all over soldiers that don’t belong to you might get you enemies of equal or higher rank else where, and pissing all over your soldiers will lead to reduced mission success.

Response by CSM Angel Sitiriche made Aug 9 at 2019 12:02 AM

CSM Angel Sitiriche — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:02:47 -0400

Talk to your CSM.

Response by SGT Mike Mann made Aug 9 at 2019 1:18 AM

SGT Mike Mann — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 01:18:14 -0400

Suck it up or Get out

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Aug 9 at 2019 1:33 AM

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 01:33:19 -0400

Memorandum for record forward it to everyone in your chain of command. If you have a SM I would get him or her involved.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Aug 9 at 2019 10:13 AM

SGT Robert Martin — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 10:13:12 -0400

As an old 11B my first response would be to suck it up. Yes, I believe that the Captain should have used a different approach, but in the end that will not give you weight. I have received many orders that were literally yelled at the top of their lungs at me. But like I stated, that was Infantry. Best advise would be to rise above all this and follow orders to a T.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 9 at 2019 1:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 13:47:38 -0400

I have spoken to the LTC in charge of the nurses, and her civilian counterpart about this, and that all I want is to be treated with some respect and dignity. So they did nothing about the situation?

Response by CPT MIchael Campbell made Aug 9 at 2019 1:49 PM

CPT MIchael Campbell — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 13:49:21 -0400

Respect goes up and down the command chain. I started my military career as a medic, and later as an officer I treated everyone I dealt with as soldiers deserving respect.

Response by PFC John Butler made Aug 9 at 2019 2:20 PM

PFC John Butler — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 14:20:37 -0400

There's a term used in engineering for how to deal with overbearing supervision. "Malicious obedience." As long as no one's health or welfare is put in danger, you do EXACTLY what you are told to do, to the letter. No more, no less. It kills micromanaging.

Response by PFC Carmine Fico made Aug 9 at 2019 3:24 PM

PFC Carmine Fico — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 15:24:22 -0400

Sour grapes. Follow orders

Response by MAJ Vic Artiga made Aug 9 at 2019 3:46 PM

MAJ Vic Artiga — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 15:46:31 -0400

What you are asking for is completely legitimate. No, you should not suck it up and drive on. Of the captain tested you this way she is most likely doing the same with others and it has a negative impact on the good order and discipline of the unit. Likewise, your patient care suffers. I would bring it up with your sergeant major. If that doesn’t work, go to your next level commander. Too often leaders ignore such issues because that is sometimes thw army way.

Response by SFC Michael D. made Aug 9 at 2019 4:15 PM

SFC Michael D. — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 16:15:58 -0400

So, after all the responses, what you end up doing? Inquiring minds want to know.

Response by TSgt John Munzinger made Aug 9 at 2019 8:56 PM

TSgt John Munzinger — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 20:56:14 -0400

I got more time on leave then you have in service.......

Response by MSG Alison Klein made Aug 9 at 2019 9:47 PM

MSG Alison Klein — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 21:47:36 -0400

Oh Lord! I feel your problem isn't actually a military problem but a problem with nurses in general. You walk into a civilian or VA hospital and you will find the same problem. No one has figured out how to tame a nurse not even doctors. I wish you luck!

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Aug 9 at 2019 10:33 PM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Fri, 09 Aug 2019 22:33:50 -0400

I am sorry you have a leader with no idea what leadership is. I was an enlisted NCO. Then got out and went to school and returned as a Medical Corp officer, admittedly my enlisted MOS was a combat arms job. But I learned that if you take good care of your personnel , they will watch out for you. Giving respect to all you come in contact doesn’t cost anything and reaps better moral and efficiency. When I was a Resident I had to pull an attending aside and remind her that her losing self control during a tense situation prevented the medics from doing the best job they could do for her and the patient. She straightened up and we got the job done successfully. The first rule of leadership is your people’s needs come before your own

Response by CPT Bill Roderick made Aug 10 at 2019 8:48 PM

CPT Bill Roderick — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 20:48:38 -0400

Get out of there.

Response by MAJ Jim Cook made Aug 11 at 2019 12:55 PM

MAJ Jim Cook — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 12:55:45 -0400

Sounds like many directions I have witnessed in civilian medical facilities. I would have to say suck it up Butter cup.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2019 4:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 16:37:38 -0400

Was this an isolated incident? What is the history of their relationship? A cpt has to respect an E6, or the entire order will fall apart. Apparently unit commander doesn't want to get in the middle of this. Maybe talk to other nursing staff officers to understand this one's issues?

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Aug 11 at 2019 7:26 PM

SFC Joseph Lumpkins — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:26:42 -0400

Wow must wow you got offended by that?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2019 10:21 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 22:21:48 -0400

Soldiers, Families and Civilians are to be treated with respect. Exercise the Commander’s open door policy. If the Commander fails or ignores the problem then look into filling an article 138 on the Commander for not fixing a problem that it’s affecting you.

Response by PO3 Paul Stai made Aug 11 at 2019 11:08 PM

PO3 Paul Stai — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 23:08:40 -0400

E4 Mafia...start doing what you’re told when you’re told....drop all initiative...let the queen reign supreme...take care of your flock (continue training and be better) but let the witch die under her own weight....

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Sep 29 at 2019 11:10 PM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:10:55 -0400

This is a continual problem within a hospital setting. Being an Army Nurse though does not make this behavior acceptable in any setting.

Response by TSgt Gerald Wilson made Oct 10 at 2019 3:42 PM

TSgt Gerald Wilson — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 15:42:13 -0400

My thought: Focus on your own obligations and professionalism instead of focusing on changing someone else's BS. Remember that douchebag medical officers are going to come and go and many of them only got like a 10-day orientation to the military. Junior Varsity. Do your best to have a positive relationship with said d-bag, don't act entitled or hurt, and stifle your emotions. In this way, you are stronger than this person. Also. "disrespected" is to correct english what the 10-day-wonder is to commsissioning... Best wishes.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Oct 22 at 2019 8:52 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 20:52:21 -0400

I would request to see your highest ranking NCO. A first or command sergeant major who has the ear of the CO.

Response by MSG Ronald Hunter made Nov 2 at 2019 4:43 PM

MSG Ronald Hunter — Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:43:48 -0400

Article 139 of the UCMJ could be used as a tool but it might make your day to day work environment hell

Response by SGT Mary G. made Nov 2 at 2019 5:38 PM

SGT Mary G. — Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:38:59 -0400

If those kinds of unwarranted micreomanaging situations (which it seems may be is the problem) happen more than once I start totally mistrusting the person who is being obnoxious, and knows it - no matter their rank. The first thought that comes to mind is the danger that person is likely to become during active combat.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Nov 3 at 2019 8:19 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 08:19:07 -0500

Wonder about the statement "Army nurse the rank as Captain". Maybe the attitude is both ways? In any case, you did what you could do given the circumstances. You may never know if she was counseled by her superior on her demeanor or lack there of. The best you can make of it is to do a bit of self assessment of the situation and use it as a learning experience on communicating with people. How did you salvage the situation (self assessment)? As I see it, you may have lost credibility with the junior ranked soldier you were training. Did you say come on let's get what the Captain wants done so we can get back to the training (maintaining the positive position of being in charge of the junior enlisted) or did you just gripe about it in front of the others and thus placing you in non-credible leadership position?

Response by 1stSgt Timothy Phillips made Nov 3 at 2019 11:38 AM

1stSgt Timothy Phillips — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 11:38:20 -0500

You have a chain of command, Use it! I will bet that when the CO of the hospital finds out, this disrespect will stop.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Nov 6 at 2019 3:24 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:24:09 -0500

Some one has to talk the top about this. It looks as if your trying to talk to her and the next level of command is not working.
Get all your paperwork on where, when, and how she interacted with you and your troops.
Also list who you talked to about her, And there reactions, Actions, Or lack Of action.
This does fall under hostile work environment.
Working in a hospital is cake. for the most part.
she should treat everyone the same. No one is better than any other, Your jobs are just different.
I do not know how many Nurses I taught how to do meny parts of there job's when I was at Fort Drum the first time.
My second time at Drum most of my leadership did not want to listen to what I had to offer or my experience. That sound like this person.
You might want to remind her that almost all of us run into each other later on in the military, And that some things do come back on people.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Nov 8 at 2019 12:29 PM

SFC Regina Boyd — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 12:29:38 -0500

She was right. You're in the military. This isn't a civilian job where everybody is "considerate" of others - and that's depending on where you work! She's an officer and you're enlisted. She drew the line and she was in the right. Whining about it to her superiors isn't going to help you here. If the problem is so pervasive, does the Army still have the IG? You appear to do your job, now you just need to remember that you're an enlisted person and then there are officers. They are two different types of people. Is it fair? No, but a lot in life isn't fair. This is just one duty station; if you PCS somewhere else, it's another environment. Suck it up and move on.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2019 6:51 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 06:51:36 -0500

She was right. Sometimes it is best to just do your job and follow orders without complaining.

Response by MSgt Judy Craven made Nov 29 at 2019 10:33 AM

MSgt Judy Craven — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 10:33:38 -0500

I had a similar problem with an O-6 when i was stationed in the UK. I had not picked up one of his troops for two reasons: He was not at the bus stop and my 28 passenger bus was full. This Col picked up his troop and chased me down for 12 miles to our destination. He pulled his sports car in front of my bus. My bus would have flattened his car but that is another story. He climbed on my bus and pretty much cussed me out for doing my job! I was a lowly E-4. He took his troop to his barracks and i dropped my passengers off. I drove straight back to base and asked my dispatcher to replace me on the next run. I then told him what happened, that i had shown the Col his rank's due respect and he had cussed me out. My commander contacted our O-6, who in turn contacted the base IG, and the base commander. The very next morning i was met by three O-6s when i got to work. I got an apology from that O-6 that had pulled in front of my bus. He said he was not aware of the safety issue involved with pulling in front of my bus and also apologised for his outburst! I was floored! The base commander told him that he used poor taste and poor decision making in this matter. After he left, the base commander, resources commander and my commander all shook my hand. As he leftt the base commander winked at me! I used my chain of command and got results. I did not expect to get any results. This took place in the late '70s.

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Nov 30 at 2019 10:51 PM

SFC Clark Adams — Sat, 30 Nov 2019 22:51:04 -0500

This thread keeps popping up on my feed. I'm wondering where the OP ended up? Did this Soldier PCS to a line unit or deploy with an AMEDD unit?

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Dec 9 at 2019 8:15 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 08:15:32 -0500

Article 15,And Brought in front of the Squadron Commander

Response by CPL Matt Streig made Dec 17 at 2019 9:36 PM

CPL Matt Streig — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:36:46 -0500

I would catch the CPT in question and do some one on one counseling session. When Officers forget their place and responsibilities of their Oaths it is the duty of the people or person to remind them of the facts at hand.

Response by CAPT Bruce Bruni made Feb 25 at 2020 7:57 AM

CAPT Bruce Bruni — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 07:57:12 -0500

There are officers and there are leaders who are officers. Being that this is a medical unit, it is quite likely that the officer was a direct commissioned officer with little prior military experience, but you can find similar attitudes in a civilian hospital. Maybe the officer had a bad day or bad moment that caused the reaction, but it doesn’t excuse the behavior. I recommend the enlisted to request a private moment with the officer to discuss the situation. UTMOST TACT is necessary to get the point across without exacerbating the situation. The opening statement will set the tone for the rest of the conversation, so choose the words wisely and not of an accusation so that it doesn’t cause the officer to put up a defense. Who knows, if done correctly it might make the officer aware of how it impacted not only the enlisted, but the officer as well, who lost face in front of subordinates for the poor example of leadership, In the end, it may result in a much improved working relationship. If the officer doesn’t get it, then there is not much more you can do than bringing it to the attention of the Command Enlisted Advisor and let them handle it through the command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 10:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 10:34:09 -0500

A lot of you are basically telling her to suck it up and that isn't right.

Response by Maj Thor Hauff made Feb 25 at 2020 12:28 PM

Maj Thor Hauff — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:28:10 -0500

You’re not wrong that each member regardless rank deserves respect. The old adage “punish in private and praise in public”. You start the story off with an example of a particular incident then say later “the nurses”. If it’s one nurse then that’s a singular problem. If it’s all the nurses. It’s a leadership problem. If it’s all the medics it might be an enlisted or training problem. If it’s just you, then it’s a personal problem.

Response by LTC Frank Page made Feb 25 at 2020 12:54 PM

LTC Frank Page — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:54:33 -0500

Sounds like you need to use the NCO chain a command

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 1:53 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 13:53:32 -0500

Anytime someone does things like that isn’t cool. I’d say give it back to them in a future similar situation. Probably not the best advice in regards to enlisted/officer ranks. But in my experience it shows them to not fuck with you anymore because you don’t take shit. Just make sure you’re in the right at the time. Also be careful of any foul language used if you decide to try it out

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 4:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 16:56:21 -0500

Fact is you are going to run into pos officers often. Elevate it to where you can and then if you don’t want to deal with it anymore, volunteer for an outfit with professionals. Not really a secret that the force is overrun with college grads impersonating leaders who are only really concerned with self preservation.

Response by PO3 Myali Remorra made Feb 25 at 2020 8:07 PM

PO3 Myali Remorra — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 20:07:31 -0500

You’re gonna have to get over it. Eating shit sucks but it won’t disappear from your service experience. Was the nurse a dickhead? Maybe. Does it matter? Not really. Plenty of shit we have to put up with. Lots of chest pumping and it won’t go away.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 8:12 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 20:12:52 -0500

Shame the officer identified delinquency with the load out plan.
Good fer her to motivate the EMs to recover and move forward with assigned or indirect duties.
Never should those over me do my job or lead where I have failed standards not met.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 28 at 2020 9:15 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 09:15:29 -0400

Now this is a year or so old but i think it was handled wrong by both individuals starting with the CPT and working down. I think my way or handling this would have been Yes Ma'am as soon as i finish this block of instructions on how to chart patient records I would be more than glad have some one take care of that for you. If the CPT later addressed me in the same fashion " Hey " i think my response would be: Hay is first stage of horse Manure Ma'am what can i do for you?
In addition i am not sure how many other enlisted that you have on your shift but i would try to make sure some one was looking at the blanket warmer and carts on a regular basis. You stood your ground when you chatted with the CPT. the first time She choose to ignore your concerns. I would note time date short summery of the event for my own records, If this kind of thing continues report it up your COC.

Now some ones perception of what was going on may be fogged but none the less put your self in here shoes. JMTC a year late.