We want to down size...What do you think about a 100% drug test and if you fail you are out, no questions asked?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:23:09 -0500

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 28 at 2014 9:24 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:24:35 -0500

That is a GREAT idea!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2014 9:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:31:38 -0500

I think its a great idea. I have no tolerance or sympathy for drug use. I understand the issue with addiction, but in order to be addicted, a free choice was made.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2014 3:52 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:52:24 -0500

That is a GREAT idea! I'm ready for it!

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 7 at 2014 4:10 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:10:01 -0500

What question(s) would there to ask? You broke the regulation, you melted the cup, you're out. Done.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Mar 7 at 2014 4:29 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:29:45 -0500

And what do we do about every Joe that is self medicating because we, the military as a culture, can't dump the stigma for seeking help with PTSD?

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 7 at 2014 4:42 PM

SGT James Elphick — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:42:51 -0500

I think a better way would be to evaluate everyone as a soldier. Drugs have no place in the Armed Forces but after 13 years of war you are going to throw out, on their asses I might add, a lot of guys who are either A. Self-medicating to deal with the psychological trauma they have been through, or B. are self-medicating to keep going because they are so dedicated that that bum knee isn't going to stop them and they are all jacked up on whatever they can get their hands on to get through PT in the morning. Our Battalion did this after our second deployment and there were issues. Good soldiers got the boot for a first time offense, some soldiers intentionally used to get caught and get kicked out because that seemed better than another deployment, which then depleted our ranks. There is no catch-all answer for how to go about down-sizing but this idea would put a lot of good veterans in a needlessly bad situation upon discharge.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2014 4:49 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:49:22 -0500

Let's diversify this conversation and say that all illegal drugs that cannot be prescribed at anytime should solidify a quick removal from the Armed Forces. I am not being completely sympathetic to those that are self medicating, but I do believe that all others should not receive another chance. For those that are self medicating, correct treatment should be given to them to help resolve their issues. However, this leniency should have an end.

Response by CPT Jason Torpy made Mar 8 at 2014 5:55 PM

CPT Jason Torpy — Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:55:33 -0500

That would be a good idea if 1) not doing drugs was the definition of a good soldier 2) zero tolerance was a sensible leadership philosophy and 3) marijuana wasn't illegal.

Response by 1SG Henry Yates made Mar 10 at 2014 1:01 AM

1SG Henry Yates — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:01:39 -0400

AR 600-85 has provisions built in, such as, NCO's and above (CPL and above) are separated upon the first offense. E4 with time in service TIS greater than 3 years are separated upon the 1st offense as well. In the classes of drugs, any drug above class I meets this criteria as well. Alcohol related incidents aren't tolerated either. Offer the help in rehab immediately. The other factor, as Commanders, if you have a 0 tolerance policy, stick to it. You must establish a standard that can't be picked apart by favoritism or unfair treatment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2014 2:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:58:52 -0400

YES agreed..also DUI's restricted or unrestricted reported need to be booted.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2014 3:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:11:23 -0400

While many will bring up self medication for PTSD, how do you prove self medication as a defense. Knowing the consequences of getting in trouble for what you're doing, does the stigma involved with seeking help with PTSD outweigh the stigma of pissing hot and getting the boot? It shouldn't. I've seen people actually seek help, and it didn't shine any negative light on them. With the numbers that the Army is wanting to cut I say go for it.

Response by Sgt Matthew O'Donnell made Mar 10 at 2014 3:22 PM

Sgt Matthew O'Donnell — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:22:37 -0400

Illegitimate prescriptions are written by a medical professional to
mask the pain of PTSD, injury or whatever else go away. There is a lack
of treatment and a lot of pushing pills at people to treat symptoms and
not the actual issue . Drugs gained illegally or by a prescription are
still free choice, but who are you going to trust? Tyrone the pusher or
Dr. Smith with too many patients? How many people actually think a
Doctor is going to steer them wrong with a prescription cocktail. It's happening, its causing overdoses and killing veterans.

I'm sure this discussion is mostly about pot and stuff, but that isn't the only problem with drugs in the military.

Response by SSG Theodore Scherer made Mar 10 at 2014 11:26 PM

SSG Theodore Scherer — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:26:55 -0400

I am not sure about every where else but on Schofield we cannot do 100% tests because the staff at ASAP is so badly undermanned they can't process it all.

It is a good idea but at least in Hawaii we are not allowed to do it, its either 25% or less. Drug use out here at least in my unit is non existent, I can't speak for the other larger units, but Alcohol is more of a problem than anything else out here.

Response by SPC Michael Kissell made Jul 21 at 2014 1:47 AM

SPC Michael Kissell — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:47:27 -0400

I also agree that 1 HOT and You're Out!

When I was stationed at 12th. AVN MDW, we had 2 slodiers, an E-3 & E-4 both pop hot. They were helicopter mechanics as was I. A zero tolerance policy was in place as far I knew. But one of our Higher Command came to the rest of us and asked if they should be be given another chance or if 1 strike then you longer can even touch an Aircraft and out you go?. We all said NO to the working on the helicopters and process out.
They both got Article 15 UCMJ actions, loss of rank (both back to E-1) and dishonorable discharges. They both mowed grass on the airfield and did other grounds maintenance until discharged.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 1:59 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:59:28 -0400

CW3 Dorr,
I do not believe illicit drugs have any place in the military but I personally think the abuse of prescription drugs is even more detrimental. Painkillers are one of the easiest addictions to form and one of the hardest to kick. I think the military would benefit from taking a hard look at their overall drug policy; both elicit and otherwise.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 2:35 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:35:27 -0400

Love it...however...if I've learned anything from watching some bad decision makers, it's that absolutes fail...absolutely. Any blanket statement that is meant to do something with ZERO tolerance, will always requrie a caveat, which will in turn void the original intent of "no exceptions." While you wouldn't necessarily think that would be the case with soemthing like this...trust me. An absolute decision at absolute compliance levels will fail...absolutely. I like the idea though.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 6:55 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:55:56 -0400

I think you need to account for false positives in the test, because they happen. But, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't a failed drug test get you kicked out anyway?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 8:25 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:25:50 -0400

The Fifth Amendment and UCMJ calls for due process of the law. You can't have a zero blanket policy like "fail a UA and you're out" because you have to allow for due process.

Scenario: a Soldier goes out drinking with his battle buddies on Saturday night, he leaves his drink unattended while going to the bathroom. Unknown person slips an unknown substance into his drink. Monday the Commander does a 100% UA and the Soldier pops hot. Did he violate a regulation, law, or order by being a victim?

Zero Tolerance doesn't work because their are too many variables to discover if the Soldier was knowingly taking an illegal substance or was a victim.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Jul 22 at 2014 7:04 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:04:26 -0400

Bingo no questions asked

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 5 at 2014 10:51 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:51:18 -0500

I say that not the greatest idea. How about they do a record review and if you are constantly a low prefoever for 3 cycles and show no sign of wanting to improve then separate the member. And enforce the regulation we have in place already like weight. I see so many obese service membera that make the uniform look crappie. They either need to loose weight or be seperated.