We've seen questions about Mustangs, ROTCs & Ring Knockers. Should NCOs be allowed to fill officers' command billets?

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:15:51 -0400

I 've seen MANY NCOs more capable than officers.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 12 at 2016 9:51 AM

SFC George Smith — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:51:15 -0400

I think that's why there is always a senior NCO close the Officers and especially the New and younger officers to head them in the right direction and help with command decisions...

Response by MSgt Richard Rountree made Oct 12 at 2016 10:45 AM

MSgt Richard Rountree — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:45:49 -0400

Staff billets...sure. Command billets? I would say no except for extraordinary circumstances such as field promotions in wartime.

Personally, I held two officer billets during my USAF career. The first one was the 10th CSG Executive Officer, a Lt Col slot, at RAF Alconbury UK. When I asked my boss why he selected me over an officer, he told me that I was far more capable (for this position) than any Major/Lt Col on the station. The second time, I replaced my boss as the Chief of Logistics, a Major slot, at the 3569th USAF Recruiting Squadron when he was relieved of duty a few weeks after I arrived at the unit. I found out later I had been selected for this assignment specifically to be his replacement when they fired him.

So, while a NCO may succeed or even thrive in a staff officer billet, I believe the command environment is a completely different animal..essentially a commander is responsible for everything the unit and/or it's members does or does not do while under his/her command. While I don't have any specific information to support this, I also believe there are likely many legal hurdles for enlisted folks to occupy an officer commander slot. Can anyone who actually knows comment on this assumption? (Note: I already know all the 'assume' wisdom...you don't have to go there).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2016 12:42 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:42:15 -0400

All I know Sgt Wayne Wood, Is we did what the officers wanted done. I think they should continue to have their same billets. We were separated in Nam, but their hooch wasn't anymore comfortable than any of the EM hooches.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 12 at 2016 1:52 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 13:52:06 -0400

Personally, I don't see why not, but I think it'd have to be a case by case basis. I've worked directly for officers before and you do get a feel for how things run. Now I'm not going to toot my own horn and say I could easily replace my officers because I've had some pretty good officers. But if they were needed elsewhere, like any NCO, I'd take charge and carry out the plan of the day.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 12 at 2016 2:01 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:01:58 -0400

In my experience, the Officer / NCO collaboration keeps the unit in the area of moderation vs extremes. Many times I have seen a NCO pull back the reigns on an Officer and vice versa. I have seen that in the area of discipline, how far to push the troops, etc. If they thought the same or were trained the same, the moderation effect would disappear and I think eventually the unit cohesion would suffer.

Interesting analogy, same with two person crews on trains and aircraft. Eliminate that second person as oversight and your going to have more crashes and accidents.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Oct 12 at 2016 2:02 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:02:35 -0400

As. mustang I applaud the question and the fact that I was able to do that.

Response by CPL(P) Joseph Kelly made Oct 12 at 2016 2:40 PM

CPL(P) Joseph Kelly — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:40:50 -0400

No

I have noticed when I was in that's all that would happen. PSGT says hey Cpl or SGT the commander needs you to write a 3000 word RBI for his next meeting and needs to be done 10 minutes ago like I'm sorry sir I know you have a hard enough job already but you needs to write your own speech

Response by CPL(P) Joseph Kelly made Oct 12 at 2016 2:42 PM

CPL(P) Joseph Kelly — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:42:01 -0400

As NCO's we already have enough to handle then doing the brass work.

Response by CPL(P) Joseph Kelly made Oct 12 at 2016 2:44 PM

CPL(P) Joseph Kelly — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:44:15 -0400

New NCOS that have just made points it's not good for them to start out with the positions. SNCO should be placed in commader as that have more field training just a thought

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 12 at 2016 6:26 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 18:26:01 -0400

There's A LOT of "experience" difference that happens in those first 4+ years.

Although the base line education has probably gotten a lot closer, it's not the same for a 18-20 year old LCpl-Cpl Squad Leader as a 24 year old Plt CMDR (College/OCS/TBS). Sure the Enlisted guy might be more "tactically proficient" but that LT has exponentially more background "administratively," and that is going to be HUGE in a Command Billet.

Probably the hardest part of going from E5-E6 in the Marines is learning all that Admin that you didn't deal with those first 8-12 years, and hadn't touched since HS. Skills ignored are skills lost. Officers use those skills "daily." It's likely not as bad as it used to be (I'm 90s era), but I literally had to teach my SNCOIC how to use email when he transferred to us. Great guy, super proficient "within his field" (Arty), but he would have flailed in a command billet.

I was pretty solid, but without OCS/TBS and probably another year of college at that point I wouldn't have been ready (I was in zone for SSgt when I got out). I would have been okay to fill in as a Staff Officer (did on multiple occasions), but not in a command slot. Just didn't have the background.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 12 at 2016 8:02 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 20:02:30 -0400

Navy and CG both have senior enlisted filling command billets on small craft.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 12 at 2016 9:14 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 21:14:31 -0400

Any good LT and SNCO pairing in a rifle platoon will produce three squad leaders, a platoon guide and at least a third of the fire team leaders who can effectively lead the entire platoon in combat.

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Oct 13 at 2016 12:38 AM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 00:38:00 -0400

I had a Drill Sergeant in basic training at Fort Jackson, SC in 1972 that had one arm. He lost his arm during combat operations while in Viet Nam while leading his platoon after the Platoon Leader was killer in action. He functions as the platoon leader until he was wounded and did a successful job. This example shows that a senior NCO can and does fill critical leadership roles when the need arises. But, as stated in other comments; a senior NCO is always paired with a junior commissioned officer to mentor the junior officer. This relationship sets the stage for the officer's career.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 13 at 2016 10:17 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 10:17:43 -0400

it happens in a limited way.
at one time i had more PL time as a specialty PL in 501st PIR AT platoon then any other officer..and no i was not doing duties of both PSG and PL... I had a PSG as well.
In 2010 I had a MSG Select that was a PL, he had an SFC that was his PSG

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Oct 14 at 2016 1:11 AM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 01:11:41 -0400

Careful Sgt Wayne Wood!! Someone might get the idea we don't need all those commissioned officers after all!! lol

But yes, in certain limited circumstances, I think a seasoned E-7/8/9 could fill the role normally occupied by a 1LT or young Captain. That would certainly be dependent on the individual Non-Comm having demonstrated an ability to effectively execute the responsibilities expected of him/her. I know the Coast Guard has a CPO in charge of small stations. It works very well for them and I don't see why other branches couldn't adapt and be effective as well.

Response by SFC William Adamek made Oct 14 at 2016 5:09 PM

SFC William Adamek — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:09:32 -0400

As an E5, I PCS'd to A Signal Bn in Germany and was put into a BN S2 NCO position. A year later the slotted Major PCS'd and was not replaced for the remainder of my 3 year tour. Instead I was given an E4 admin clerk.

So while not slotted into the officer position, I had all the duties and responsibilities of that position and was accountable for all normal S2 briefings and products both in garrison and in the field. This was even to the point where I had to go to Division meetings/briefings that my BN CDR couldn't because of his lack of appropriate security access.

I'm sure that my experience cant be totally unique. So maybe there should be instances where this is allowed, if it isn't.