We put the fun in funeral and somebody's getting a jacked up flag!

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:21:18 -0500

What is going on lately? First an Airman defacing the POW/MIA flag now we have Soldiers thinking it's a joke when our men die.

This Soldier posts a couple pics on her Instagram account saying "It's so damn cold out... WHY have a funeral outside !? Somebody's getting a jacked up flag" and "We put the FUN in funeral"

Bad behavior is always going to exist, I think we see more and more of this because of how we are connected to everybody through avenues like social media. The last couple major Marine Corps mistakes were because bad actions being posted on youtube to bring them to light... pissing on the enemy and throwing puppies off a cliff. When are we going to learn?

Photos posted by Wis. National Guard member spark outrage online

Two photographs posted on social media by a member of Wisconsin's Funeral Honor Guard are causing some controversy, sparking outrage by some online.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:23:51 -0500

follow this link to see a reply from a "NCO" from the picture

https://www.facebook.com/usawtfm/posts/ [login to see] 688606:0

Facebook

Facebook is a social utility that connects people with friends and others who work, study and live around them. People use Facebook to keep up with friends, upload an unlimited number of photos, post ...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:25:55 -0500

That is why the military gets a bad reputation when stuff like this happens. There is no reason for this, and why do that for someone that gave there life for our country.

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made Feb 18 at 2014 12:40 AM

SPC Dan Goforth — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:40:21 -0500

SSgt Fair, we have a serious attitude problem within our ranks anymore. I know I had it. It took six months of being disgusted with the man in the mirror, followed by 45/45 and a reduction in rank, to get over it. The seniors among us (read: been in more than a day, not so much rank) are going to have to fix this. If we want to reflect the professionalism the military's history and tradition holds, we have to show the new service members that this is not acceptable, regardless of how they acted "back on the block".

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:50 AM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:50:48 -0500

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/59138-some-things-are-sacred

I posted about this, too. It is very upsetting to me, and this is something that needs to be addressed by everyone - not just the ARNG. Everyone needs to understand that funeral honors are an HONOR.

Some things are sacred...

Please tell me that nobody finds this to be an acceptable way to joke around. I am one of the most humor filled people around, but some things are sacred to me and should not be messed with. This is o...

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 18 at 2014 12:51 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:51:22 -0500

Are these Soldiers on RP?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:52 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:52:48 -0500

WTF is going on in our military lately. I can't believe how disrespectful service members have become. where is the NCO to put boot to ass or is he joining in in this shit. NCO's you are not friends with soldiers you set the example and this is not it. I'm very ashamed of this and deeply sorry to the fallen brother and his family for the actions of these private fuzzy wannabes. Phrase of the day, NCO's Boot to ass we haved failed.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Feb 18 at 2014 1:10 AM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:10:18 -0500

I woke up this morning to see this plastered all over the internet. I am sickened, disappointed and angry. This type of behavior is inexcusable. From my personal and professional point of view, there is no explanation that can be provided with reference to the context of both the pictures and the response from the NCO that will be able to justify this behavior.

Response by SFC Victor Serrano made Feb 18 at 2014 1:33 AM

SFC Victor Serrano — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 01:33:42 -0500

Poor taste and inappropriate, Period! What were they thinking?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 3:32 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 03:32:30 -0500

This is what happens when the military reduces the standards for enlistment. You get people that have no respect that could care less about what they do except for the fact that they get a paycheck. We need to tighten the reigns and make the military a profession that takes pride and respect, something that must be earned to be a part of. There is a serious lack of discipline in many, not all, of the soldiers that have joined in the last few years and if we dont start enforcing a higher standard of respect and entitlement then its going to take decades to weed out those that only joined because of a paycheck and lack the respect and discipline to be taken seriously. From what Ive seen, everyone on RP has a great appreciation for the service and stands for what makes our military great. We need more soldiers that take pride in the uniform and less soldiers that discredit it.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 18 at 2014 6:22 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 06:22:32 -0500

These photos upset me more than the photo of the Airman with the POW-MIA flag. I am speechless. Horrible.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 9:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:40:24 -0500

Embarrassing. I know I did stupid things when I was was a Joe, but I never did anything nearly as disrespectful. Why would she post something like this? How could she not know everyone would find out? I just don't understand how these soldiers think doing something this stupid was a good decision.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 18 at 2014 10:00 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:00:05 -0500

Their NCO who is coming to their defense and justifying this behavior is the one who needs the most severe punishment. 

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 10:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:41:58 -0500

I find this very offensive. That is all I will say.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 11:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:03:00 -0500

Dissapointment....just dissapointment. A position of reverence and they treat it like a joke.......I have no words.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:26 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:26:52 -0500

This is so incredibly offensive, I can not adequately express my outrage and disappointment. Stupid decisions are compounded 1000 times when you combine the internet. In an age of social media, I wonder if we are losing focus of just how much of our lives we voluntarily share with the general public and total strangers. One wrong click can send a picture or message to virtually everyone online! Maybe when we are so used to sharing with the world what we ate for lunch (no one cares!) on facebook and instagram, we forget that our actions reflect not just ourselves but the entire US Army and everyone who has ever worn the uniform. Do we seriously not think what the consequences might be when we post something online???? Go do something incredibly stupid and then just dump fuel on that fire by showing the entire world... Disgusting.

Response by SFC Anabel Cepero made Feb 18 at 2014 1:07 PM

SFC Anabel Cepero — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:07:48 -0500

It's a sad day when Soldiers think this is acceptable and a NCO tries to justify the behavior. The fact is we are Soldiers 24/7 whether out on the town or on a social media platform. Unfortunately this is not the first or the last that we will see such disrespect. I am disappointed in these Soldiers as they are supposed to be our future Leaders, and I’m equally disappointed in the leadership that tried to justify it. I hope that NCO’s and Soldiers will learn from this and understand that this is not nor will it ever be ok behavior.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 1:41 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:41:03 -0500

Are we living in a unique time of decadence where our children reflect the behavior of their peers? I know that in every generation we have had this discussion but we did not have PCs, laptops and Androids.

We 'like' miscreant behavior on social sites and we do not know where to draw the line and so, this can only get worse. This is kind of like a site where college students are having sex while totally blitzed. All these poor decisions and thinking 'authority' is always wrong.

These same people become our leaders with the consequences being fuzzy-thinking supervisors and a sense of amorality that is not conducive to good order.

We hear complaints about toxic leaders but I wonder, is this really just whining over our own decisions. Take the hubris over the SSG's hairstyle. The back and forth was sufficient to establish what leadership is and how seemingly unimportant acts can affect our youth.

I think she learned something and I have no issue with her if she does follow through because her subordinates will see her actions and act accordingly, even if she has to compromise. This is maintaining good order.

This discussion was a good one because this is what we can bring to the table and hopefully get the wayward youth on board. This does not imply that all our young act this way but the social sites seem to foster this kind of reckless behavior.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Feb 18 at 2014 2:51 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:51:10 -0500

Here is an update...

http://dma.wi.gov/dma/news/2014news/14022.asp

Wisconsin National Guard investigating military funeral honors controversy

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 9:29 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:29:11 -0500

This was schocking news for me today. Soldiers today have no respect because they do not fear the consequences associated with their actions. Now in days if we discipline a soldier with anything other than a counseling form there is some sort of rule we (the leaders) are breaking, according to JAG. We need to be able to have a more hands on approach to correcting substandard behaviors instead of waiting on a paper trail to catch up to the individual and then possibly chaptering them out of the service. This process takes too long and the soldier does not feel the consequences right away.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 9:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:41:08 -0500

This is irritates the hell out of me! Is this what we represent? Is this what represents us? What's sad about the entire thing is the fact there is an NCO who should damn well know better and could have put a stop to it. This is not what the Army is about. This is not what the military is about. I know I've only been in nine years but when I enlisted, we were taught to live the Army Values. There's nothing remotely close to Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity or Personal Courage emanating from this disgusting portrayal of our branch of service or any other. This is the reason why we face so much adversity directed at the military. The Army is currently downsizing, I say start with this lot. There....I said it! Honest opinion

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 9:45 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:45:56 -0500

Ok there are two points to be made here First lets address the first photo about "the Jacked up Flag" . This person need to be removed from the funeral honors team immediately. Apparently she does not understand the prominence of the position that was bestowed upon her. Sorry in this case first posted strike and your out. A person could almost guarantee that this wasn't the first time this was thought about or said in a public forum.

Second point. yes the photo was taken in very bad taste especially since it was a a school house. Where was their leadership/ instructors? they were sent to this school to learn about one of the most honorable duties a solider can do. That is to pay respect to the fallen and to their families. In most cases this is one of the most lasting memories the family will remember of the Military it should be treated with respect. Simple answer counsel them and monitor.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 10:13 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:13:40 -0500

As a member of the NY Honor Guard I am deeply offended by the post the soldier made about presenting a "jacked-up flag" because its "so damned cold out", especially since she appears to have had the privilege of attending PEC where she learned to be a trainer of future honor guardsmen.

A question though, Where was the Small Group Leader (SGL) that would have been in charge of these soldiers?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 12:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:58:17 -0500

Destroy every one of them! I loved funeral detail, it was a honor.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 1:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:01:45 -0500

Saw the report this morning... I think there is a definite lack of respect and understanding portrayed with these actions. In my humble opinion, I think this shows both how the associated units are bringing up their Soldiers and some of our own younger cultures' contempt for certain values. Although, largely I like to think a majority of our young citizens are just as disgusted by situations like this as us SMs are.

Response by CPT Mike M. made Feb 19 at 2014 1:26 PM

CPT Mike M. — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:26:31 -0500

These folks need to be chaptered for being a disgrace to their country, the US Army (I don't care if they are reserve or national guard) and their unit.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 2:17 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:17:12 -0500

It's unfortunate that we had to sacrifice our standards in order to recruit, train, and generate the forces for the past 12+ years in which the military is very similar to a realistic cross section of society! I believe that service members should be a "cut" above the rest of the population that isn't even made from the same cloth!

Everyone who is fretting about the RIF should look at it as a time to purge the personnel that should no longer be within our ranks! Such as these fools!

Response by SSG Justo Rivera made Feb 19 at 2014 2:31 PM

SSG Justo Rivera — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:31:59 -0500

As a soldier I am embarrassed at the conduct of these soldiers. I am not excusing their actions in any way shape or form. I have had the honor and privilege to do Escort Duty, and it was one the most difficult and saddest things I have done in my 23 years in the military. You Can't fix ignorance. Unfortunately young soldiers are a product of society. As many of you know most of society is lost. This starts in basic. Discipline is a must! If commanders let NCOs be NCOs, then this kind of crap would not happen. Take the gloves off and let us do our jobs.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 3:55 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:55:19 -0500

This is just crazy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2014 5:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 17:22:49 -0500

I think this entire episode comes down to bad decision making on the part of young soldiers. I can't find any REG that say's specifically they did something wrong. What I can say is you need to be situationally aware at all times in the information age and also "Come on guys! Think before you post!" Part of the problem is today's generation X soldier has grown up with facebook and twitter and instagram and whatever, where you post what you are doing every second of the day. I worked for the Tennessee Military Funeral Honors program in '06 and '07. There were times when we cut up a bit...even in the back room of a funeral home or at a cemetary when we were preparing for a funeral. But there was NEVER an instant when we stepped out the door that we weren't 100% professionals for the family members and the honored servicemember. As for it being cold translating into a "jacked up flag?" Driving rain or sub zero weather shouldn't deter the soldier from the completion of his mission.

Response by CSM Chris McKeown made Feb 20 at 2014 1:49 AM

CSM Chris McKeown — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 01:49:24 -0500

I am just appalled at these actions. There seems to be a growing trend of no respect these days and it is pushing it's way into the Military. If any of these soldiers were under my command they wouldn't have to worry about being transferred or a investigation, because they would be scampering and begging to get a discharge just so they could get my size 11W boot out of their ass.<br>

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 4:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 04:23:37 -0500

I saw this photo when it first hit the networks, her instagram and facebook were both still active. I screen shotted the pictures, and wrote the National Guard Public Affairs Office. This was their response:

Good afternoon SSG Barin,

As you are aware by now this incident has made it to the
main stream news. The leadership is on top off this now.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Chief, National Guard Bureau, General Frank Grass
released the following statement:

"I directed the Acting Director of the Army National
Guard to investigate a disgraceful incident involving Soldiers making light of
their training to support military funerals.
The incident involves an unacceptable photo of Soldiers with a flag
draped training casket taken in a training facility. This image is in very poor taste and clearly
does not represent the values of the National Guard. I am confident the Army National Guard will
quickly resolve this matter and take swift and appropriate action. Funeral duties are sacred and America's
fallen deserve nothing less than our deepest respect."

-GEN
Grass

Also, The Adjutant General of Wisconsin, Maj Gen. Donald
Dunbar also released the following statement:

"To all veterans, current serving military members,
family members, those who have lost loved ones in service to our nation, and in
particular our Gold Star families:

The recently revealed inappropriate photos and commentary
posted to a social media site by a Soldier under my command are unacceptable. I
am taking this matter very seriously. Upon learning of this incident, I ordered
an investigation and we will wait until that is concluded to evaluate
appropriate action.

Military funeral honors are a sacred trust, and that is
why this issue has generated such a public outcry. The general public is
understandably upset, and I understand the anger and response that it has
caused. For those of us who wear or have worn the cloth of our nation’s
uniform, this story cuts like a knife. I fully understand why so many veterans
have expressed outrage. Lastly, I am acutely aware of the pain that this story
must have caused for our Gold Star family members.

I deeply regret the pain this has caused, and personally
apologize to the entire military family."

Donald P. Dunbar

Maj Gen, Wisconsin National Guard

The Adjutant General

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

We absolutely share your concern. There is no doubt that
the Soldiers involved will be disciplined.

Very Respectfully,

Army National Guard

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Never should our Brothers and Sisters in Arms...past or present, have to be subject in their final moments of honor to a group of undisciplined, disrespectful, wanna-be Soldiers. The last time I was this angry, was when those Airmen in 2011 posed in/around a metal casket.

MSG Cunningham has it exactly right, it stems from poor parenting and a touchy feely Basic Training. I think with current events the Military would be smart to reapproach how Basic Training is conducted.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Feb 22 at 2014 6:14 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 18:14:10 -0500

I was in Milwaukee for my Uncle's Funeral on January 6th, 2014. If you missed it, it was really cold there, so cold that flights out of O'hard were canceled because fuel was frozen in trucks. Yet my Uncle, who served in the Navy during WWII had a Navy Honor Guard and VFW Rifle Squad to render Honors. None of these members were bitching about the cold and all were vocal in their thanks for being allowed to participate in the service. They were not there to have fun or complain, but to perform a service, a last service for a fellow servicemember. My thanks to these professionals and to all who do their jobs so well day after day and do not dishonor themselves or their uniforms.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2014 2:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Feb 2014 02:29:06 -0500

so yeah, i just came across this and thought i would fan the fire a bit... smh. and yes i know it isnt the Soldier committing the act, its his COC, but my point is. look at the stupid crap we are doing to ourselves to make ourselves look bad.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2014 1:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:54:50 -0500

There is no fun in funeral...period. The individual placed in that casket is being carried by their comrades to their final resting place. They DEMAND the respect and honor of being carried by their fellow servicemembers, a proper ceremony, and the dignity to treat them with the upmost sacred trust that you hold as Honor Guard. They wrote that check out in blood.

For you to sit and complain about the cold when there is a family grieving, laying a loved one to rest, is unfathomable. I was there when I was given my grandfather s flag as well, and it is the most gut wrenching, sucker punch feeling in the world.

What s worse is that the individual s NCO decided to pipe and attempt to defend her actions. Strike two-even as an NCO and overwhemingly bad press, take your licks and move on. You screwed up as a leader, and you sure as hell violated almost every single creed that the Army has.

The NCO Creed-"NO ONE IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN I"

Yep bombed that one. Attempting to defend a soldier s actions when they were blatantly retarded is beyond me. I d have relieved both of you of duty on the spot.

The Soldiers Creed-(particularly the third line)

I SERVE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES AND LIVE THE ARMY VALUES

Never did learn those did ya Sgt? And how is trying to make silly pictures and relieve the stress of such a tough job serving the people of the United States? YOU are representing the military when laying someone to rest, and you have shown you were the worst possible candidate to be chosen along with everyone else in that picture.

I am sorry for the attack and the rant, but I want my opinion to get out there. This kind of crap should never be tolerated under any circumstance. IF you decide that you need to let loose, don t do it on social media. I don t care what happens behind closed doors as long as its moral and ethical.

To the families that had these soldiers as your Honor Guard-I apologize profusely for the image and mentality that is portrayed here. Your family member s sacrifice and legacy will not be tarnished by the actions of a few. RIP

Response by SFC Anabel Cepero made Feb 28 at 2014 9:58 AM

SFC Anabel Cepero — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:58:46 -0500

Here is an update on the ongoing investigation, the NCO who decided to go on Facebook and defend this Soldiers actions is now in the hot seat as well.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/02/19/second-soldier-suspended-in-casket-photo-incident.html?comp= [login to see] 630&rank=6

Response by SSG Jeffery Nebel made Mar 9 at 2014 4:26 PM

SSG Jeffery Nebel — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 16:26:25 -0400

First off, this soldier and her actions are seemingly beyond comprehension. I have been in the Wisconsin Guard for all of my career (19 + years). Rest assured, the command is taking this very seriously. This picture makes my stomach turn, let alone her not-so "cute" remarks about a jacked up flag, and putting the fun in funeral.

I have had the honor of folding the flag of the father of my former Company CO. I was personally asked to do it. It really was a great honor. I feel like I owe everyone here an apology for the actions of this soldier who posted this garbage.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 29 at 2014 9:43 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 09:43:20 -0400

When, or rather IF, I ever die and I get a jacked up honor guard, I swear by all that is unholy: I WILL HAUNT THEM. And I don't mean like Casper the Ghost haunting, either. I'll be a mean, ornery, rattle snake of a ghost. Disturbing my final peace with your shenanigans? NO SIR. Not on my funeral watch.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 31 at 2015 9:06 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:06:11 -0400

I am curious since this is an old story, but what became of this particular detail? We're they banished to some God-forsaken wasteland in which they are still trying to figure how to get out? Did their leadership hem them up with strict disciplinary action? All I know is when I first saw this, I was madder than hell.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2015 9:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:12:50 -0400

Those actions by funeral honors details are reprehensible.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 1:48 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 01:48:45 -0400

I have been in this same battalion with her. My personal opinion is she isn't very bright or productive. After she did this the BC at the time came in hot in her defense. He said it was taken out of context and we all know that the gloves we wear on honor guard are very thin and he tried to rationalize that hands being cold could have been a reason for saying the flag would be jacked up.

I have familiarity and believe her intentions were consistent with what everyone else believed. Can you believe no art-15 never happened? Just a battalion talking to.