"We cannot beat ISIS by killing them"

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:54:52 -0500

State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf has stated that the Middle East needs more job opportunities to remove the threat of groups such as ISIS and that killing them will not beat them.

I both agree and disagree with this statement, where if better opportunities existed within the Middle East there would be less individuals fighting with the terrorists, but at the same time, we must remove ISIS to allow those jobs to even been created.

What do you all think?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/marie-harf-state-department-on-islamic-state-cant-/

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 8:42 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:42:49 -0500

I'd say you tagged that one correctly, sir -- Insanity. I guess I've heard it all about ISIS now. Give them jobs ... brutal! That is some drivel: We'll beat them by helping improve the governments of the countries where they come from, and by improving opportunities for ISIS fighters. Chris Matthews hit the nail on the head when he said there will always be poor Muslims, and when the trumpet sounds, they'll join the fanatical Muslim cause.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 8:46 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:46:37 -0500

I am contractually obligated to do nothing more than shake my head in stupefied disbelief.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 8:53 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:53:10 -0500

We tried that tactic in Iraq and Afghanistan by giving them jobs building roads. They would come back to the job site at night and steal the "road" tar and asphalt because it burned really well.

We need to just tar and asphalt the entire area.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Feb 17 at 2015 8:56 AM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:56:09 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 9:08 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:08:07 -0500

We have enough Americans out there that do not have a job and underemployed working a part time job.

Why are even considering this option of giving taxpayers money to people who would like to see us dead?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 9:18 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:18:41 -0500

Maybe we should give them:
Free health care
Welfare
Food Stamps
Citizenship
Free Community College
Free Cell Phones
Unemployment checks

Maybe then they will like us.

On a less satirical note, the above policies have been very effective at crippling any ambition towards attaining success in people who have been the recipients. I might just be onto something here...
Why work so hard being a jihadi when you can hang out and have your needs catered to by the government? It is genius!

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 17 at 2015 9:24 AM

SGT Jim Z. — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:24:50 -0500

Is she really that blonde...LOL banging my head against the desk in disbelief.

Response by SGT Michelle Saunders made Feb 17 at 2015 9:27 AM

SGT Michelle Saunders — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:27:50 -0500

Because I'm now a retiree and served in actual combat, I can happily say that this 'president' and administration is FUBAR. And, a bunch of assholes. The end!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 9:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:27:58 -0500

A job like filling grave yards? ISIS ideology needs to be wiped out of existence. Granted the more "western" views that the middle east gets will create hostile environments but in the next 20 years these fractions will be dissolving as long as we weed out the crazies.

In 2005-2006, most Iraqi's I met and dealt with wanted to advance, we just got to help them deal with the fanatics for now.

Response by Sgt Mark Ramos made Feb 17 at 2015 9:38 AM

Sgt Mark Ramos — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:38:42 -0500

The White House has gotten away with such ridiculous lies for so long that is seems like they are now pushing the envelope even further. Back on 10 Feb 2015, White House press secretary Josh Earnest defended the President's characterization of the shooting at a kosher deli in Paris as "random". He said it was random because the shooters didn't know the victims by name. These guys belong in a bad comedy, not running the country.

Response by SPC David S. made Feb 17 at 2015 9:58 AM

SPC David S. — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:58:39 -0500

I'd really like to see that interview. "I see here on your resume it says you're a homicidal maniac. Could you tell me a little bit more about that and how those jobs skills will translate into the position in which you applied for?"

I think someone over at the State Department fell into the pixie dust.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Feb 17 at 2015 12:24 PM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:24:30 -0500

While this might sound like insanity to some it is actually not, it is her presentation that is really causing an issue. What she is saying is right in theory, it is far easier to defeat an enemy that cannot replenish it's forces (this was the strategy we used against Germany and Japan).
However, that is a much more nuanced approach in this day and age. We can't send massive formations of bombers to destroy their industry and wreak morale. We have to conduct full-spectrum operations. That means degrading and destroying ISIS military capabilities while at the same time working in state and peace building operations the ensure ISIS loses the ability to recruit on a large scale (think of it as pulling the weed out by the roots instead of continually spraying it with Round-Up). So, to an extent she is right, we can't win this war by killing them alone (she kind of misses on that point). Even if we go about it quickly and put boots on the ground to destroy ISIS and regain the lost territory in Iraq and Syria that is an expensive endeavor and does not guarantee that full victory will be achieved. If we continue to bomb ISIS we are going to expend hundreds of thousands of dollars for each and every kill we make, and still have no guarantee of full victory. Many people have complained that it didn't work in Iraq and Afghanistan and I counter with that you are correct, but we didn't do it right either. We threw millions of dollars away with no idea what or who it went to. We need to improve our abilities to build peace alongside our abilities to wage war. That leads to stability, security, and the ability to contain radicalism.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 17 at 2015 12:46 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:46:11 -0500

I agree that killing them ALONE will not win this war......but it sure will go a long way to achieving the endstate of peace in the region. You cannot engage in soft-power activities like rebuilding the infrastructure and economy, education and political coalition building (which is the long term fix in the region) until the immediate threat is destroyed to the point that the people you are trying to leverage are wiling to participate. For potential recruits outside of the region, you need to leverage the local muslim communities to ID and root out extremist instigators. By and large while we may see outrage from the muslim commuties around the world at these barbarous acts by ISIS, we don't see them, by and large, fingering folks who are funneling foreign fighters into the region or pointing out potential domestic terrorists.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 1:28 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:28:56 -0500

Typical hogwash from an administration that believes it can state, comment, lie, cover up or stretch the truth on what ever they choose and the sheep will follow.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Feb 17 at 2015 1:32 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:32:20 -0500

As I remain unemployed. Let's give Uncle Mark a job fighting ISIS.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Feb 17 at 2015 1:53 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:53:58 -0500

LTC John Tongret - Marie Harf did this, Marie Harf did that. So I said, "Yeah, sure." Just like the Godfather.

Why not pay the guys that are trying to kill us? Give peace a chance, give money a chance what the hell we just print more anyway.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 1:54 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:54:05 -0500

Dear State Department:

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Feb 17 at 2015 2:28 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:28:47 -0500

There is a grain of truth there. The Desert Storm may have broken Saddam Hussien's ability to fight a war, but it's obvious that the Iraqi people didn't welcome us with open arms as liberators when we went to finish the job 12 years later.

Bombing from a distance only fosters the next generation of terrorist, because the sons of the people killed are only convinced that we are indeed evil.

I'm not advocating that we give them jobs, education or free healthcare. We do however need to be intelligent in our involvement:
- Are they a threat to our security? In other words, are they going to invade us? No, but terrorism has always been a concern (long before 9/11/01), and always will be...
- Are they a threat to our national interest. Yes. The Middle East is the primary source of oil, and we are dependent on it (Otherwise wouldn't we be more concerned with other parts of the world where worse atrocities occur?).

I'm no tree loving hippie, but we need to either switch to a domestically sourced energy source and let them kill each other without our involvement (that's a bit like staying in the "no peeing" section of the swimming pool), or we need to roll in heavy with the purpose of colonizing the area.

"Walk down right side of road, good. Walk down left side of road, good. Walk down middle... squish just like grape"
~ Kesuke Miyagi "The Karate Kid"

Response by SGT James Elphick made Feb 17 at 2015 3:14 PM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:14:05 -0500

I think this thread illustrates so much that is wrong with our country right now. There are 22 responses and only 2 proposed any type of solution, the rest just spewed vitriol thereby providing nothing of value to the conversation. If we really want to improve things we have to think critically and provide answers, not simply denigrate others because they have a different opinion or idea. So since we can all agree that simply employing ISIS will not work, what solutions do you propose RallyPoint?

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Feb 17 at 2015 4:09 PM

SFC Jason Porter — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:09:32 -0500

My response....haha unbelievable. We did that in Iraq. As long as you pay them not to kill you....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 4:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:12:02 -0500

I thought being a terrorist was already a full time job! I guess DoS thinks they aren't working hard enough. Two jobs will make things much better... *facepalm

They won't even need heathcare coverage if they do their first job good enough.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 4:19 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:19:06 -0500

In all seriousness, these people are primarily motivated by religious ideology, not a lack of employment. The lack of employment and empty promises of Da'esh are exactly what is needed to delegitimize them in the eyes of their followers. The rot will occur from the inside and it will be accelerated when Da'esh can no longer sieze new territory (a requirement of the caliphate according to their own ideology in order to remain legitimate). Killing them is still a victory in their own twisted beliefs. The ideology must be discredited in order to truly defeat them and Da'esh will be their own worse enemy in this case.

Edited for grammar/spelling

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 5:06 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:06:41 -0500

I agree with the state department. We need more cyanide poison and hydrochloric acid taste testers out there. They seem like a legit bunch of retards for the job. Let's pay them minimum wage. But first, they must chug a gallon of sulfuric acid to ensure they're a proper fit for the program! Lol.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 5:08 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:08:48 -0500

Hell, I think we'd win faster if we just skipped the jobs and gave them unemployment checks, a free cell phone, and some section 8 housing. Oh, yeah, and Obamacare...combine all that with 200+ channels of free satellite TV and some McDonald's chicken nuggets, the populace will soon be just as docile and easily controlled as ours.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 5:19 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:19:25 -0500

That article/interview goes to the mentality of the talking heads on the left. They are so out of touch with reality, it is frightening. What's even more frightening is that there are people in the military and veterans who have adopted that party.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Feb 17 at 2015 5:45 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:45:01 -0500

I guess if we're going to be paying ISIL anyway we may as well make them work for it.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/19/u-s-humanitarian-aid-going-to-isis.html

U.S. Humanitarian Aid Going to ISIS

Not only are foodstuffs, medical supplies—even clinics—going to ISIS, the distribution networks are paying ISIS ‘taxes’ and putting ISIS people on their payrolls.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 17 at 2015 8:56 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:56:31 -0500

these are the same people that I debate in school...giggles...it's like when I debate them....I hand them the rope and they hang themselves with it...can't wait till tomorrow to see what talking points they'll pick off of MSNBC

Response by SSG John Bacon made Feb 18 at 2015 9:54 AM

SSG John Bacon — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:54:09 -0500

The Obama administration is delusional. I wonder often when I hear stuff like this being uttered from them what fairy tail land they think they are living in. Can we please get a leader with some backbone.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 18 at 2015 9:55 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:55:36 -0500

Dang, I just posted about this. I spent a few minutes trying to find a discussion on it already and it of course popped up right after I posted mine.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 10:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:05:07 -0500

CPT Zachary Brooks While I am not sure that giving them jobs will stop the Islam radicalism, but I do know that killing them is not the ultimate solution either. On the contrary, it gives them more "ammunition" to recruit sympathizers around the world.

Response by Capt John Cable made Feb 18 at 2015 10:18 AM

Capt John Cable — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:18:34 -0500

I'd rather just kill them...

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Feb 18 at 2015 11:17 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:17:39 -0500

There are so many problems with the Ms. Harf's comments and mindset it is hard to know where to start. First and foremost, ISIS fighters are not flooding in from the lower class people of the region but upper and middle class communities of Europe and Central Asia? I like to boil this down a bit...ISIS fighters are like rabid dogs. There is actually only one thing that can help these animals once they are infected and that is for them to be put down.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Feb 18 at 2015 11:21 AM

SGT James Elphick — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:21:51 -0500

Apparently this interview has many people thinking about this subject. While her assertion that all they need is jobs is off, I think the research in this article shows that there is some truth to the statement that we can't win the war simply by killing them https://news.vice.com/article/i-didnt-join-the-taliban-because-i-was-poor-i-joined-because-i-was-angry-report-finds-injustice-not-unemployment-radicalizes-youth?utm_source=vicenewsfb

‘I Didn’t Join the Taliban Because I Was Poor, I Joined Because I Was Angry’: Report Finds...

New report says governments and analysts still understand little about what drives the world’s youth to join armed insurgencies and terror groups.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 18 at 2015 11:34 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:34:20 -0500

I would agree, but with one amendment. We cannot win by killing them under our current ROE. Allow the military 6 months of "weapons free" status and the whole issue will be resolved promptly.

Our wars linger not because we lack the ability to win, but because we lack the stomach to do what it takes to win.. War is an ugly thing. It should be done as efficiently and devestatingly as possible so that it can be put behind us quickly. To wage war with half measures is to wage perpetual war..

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Feb 18 at 2015 11:43 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:43:45 -0500

I was initially against her comments but after deeper reflection, I think we could be on to something here? I think we could give them jobs collecting hot iron on impact zones...in flight missile repair...greasing tank tracks while the tanks are in motion?

I think the State Department might be on to something here? Of course, I hope they don't discriminate on the job applications?

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Feb 18 at 2015 11:48 AM

PO2 Mark Saffell — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:48:11 -0500

I honestly have to say I'm worried about a President that would surround himself with such stupid people. I'm not sure which statements out of this White House are the worst. I am thinking it's between give ISIL jobs to end terrosim or it was caused by a video. I guess I have to add now that the law is on our side when it comes to making illegals legal. Really???

Response by SSG Jason Neumann made Feb 18 at 2015 11:56 AM

SSG Jason Neumann — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:56:45 -0500

We can't change their Islamic ideology, beliefs or views. This has been going on for thousands of years. If they think that beheading individuals or "ethic cleansing" is their way of "negotiating" or way of business, so be it (are we going after other countries that are doing this????). However, I would think that if they mark any of our Servicemembers or U.S. citizen, hell shall be paid ten-fold. Islamic state, ISIL, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban or whomever else, they are all terrorist. It's just that, plain and simple, but out of all of them, they want to be the "Top dog" and make sure it is noticed, mission accomplished.

Just as stated in the article. There are always going to be poor people. No matter how we try to dice it up. These fanatics are recruiting all over, rich/poor, educated/uneducated, married/single etc.... Killing them all is not the answer, but who do we go to? Financiers, Propaganda personnel, boot on the ground troops? The fact is, if we go after one, there is going to be three to take their place and they will come with a vengeance.

I do propose, we come to a compromise. Well, we could send our best of the best out into the middle of a street, along with "their" best, yup, you probably are catching on......a duel. There is sarcasm there, but still would that be better than losing more American Soldiers? Now, once that is settle, if any more crap from them comes their mouths..... JDAM JDAM JDAM.

What are your thoughts?

Response by MSG Dan Foster made Feb 18 at 2015 12:09 PM

MSG Dan Foster — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:09:50 -0500

LTC John Tongret, The last I saw Alice she was running from the Queen of Hearts.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 12:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:57:31 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member - Sir, I think we SHOULD give them jobs. After all, given the poor economy and that, some of these folks could be very productive in the private sector. ESPECIALLY since some of them have advanced degrees.

I have compiled a list of potential career fields for them:

Body Armor quality tester
OJT EOD Operator
Pharmaceutical Trial Participant
Asbestos/HAZMAT operator
Ground-Ejection Test Pilot
Deep Sea Rescue Diver
High Tension Power-Line Repairman

I think given the skillsets, they would be perfectly equipped to fulfill any of these roles.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by 2LT Scott Armstrong made Feb 18 at 2015 12:59 PM

2LT Scott Armstrong — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:59:41 -0500

Ballistics Gel Testing Dummy.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 1:27 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:27:14 -0500

They can all work at the walmart mcdonalds supercenter being built over the rubble that used to be their homes

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 1:27 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:27:55 -0500

As he said...terrorists have jobs...they get paid to cut off heads...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/ [login to see] 001/#sp=show-clips

Man who killed UBL: Terrorists already have jobs: They're paid to cut off heads

Former Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill on State Dept. spokesperson's job solution for combating terrorists and what it will take to defeat ISIS

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 2:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:09:30 -0500

You know, I hate to say, but I think the Obama cabinet was hired from Head n ASS University! They come out with some of the stupidest comments I have heard since I was in Kindergarten! The POTUS should be really embarrassed to hell and back!

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Feb 18 at 2015 2:21 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:21:31 -0500

What the @#%& is our leadership thinking? This would solve absolutely nothing. Wiping them off of the face of the earth is the only thing that will end the problem. The only problem with this is that the more we kill the more we make. If they truly want to meet Allah, then use our military to facilitate the meeting, kill them all and let Allah sort them out! Just my opinion.

Response by Sgt Zachary Johnson made Feb 18 at 2015 2:23 PM

Sgt Zachary Johnson — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:23:43 -0500

Probably the most asinine thing I've heard today!!

Response by SSG Christopher Parrish made Feb 18 at 2015 3:07 PM

SSG Christopher Parrish — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:53 -0500

Everyone just sit back and relax, apparently we just aren't smart enough to understand Ms. Harf's point.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/18/state-department-spokeswoman-call-for-using-jobs-to-combat-terror-too-nuanced/

State Department spokeswoman: Call for using jobs to combat terror ‘too nuanced’ for critics

State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf, after coming under fire for suggesting the way to fight the Islamic State is with more jobs, has an answer for her critics: Her argument is just too nuanced for them to understand.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 4:46 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:46:20 -0500

This is one of those very rare seconds in time that can make a true "statesman" from a "leader". Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 5:35 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:35:33 -0500

This topic reminds me of something I read once, and I agree with it:

A friend of mine from Texas explained it all to me. "Here in West Texas I have rattlesnakes on my place, living among us. I have killed a rattlesnake on the front porch. I have killed a rattlesnake on the back porch. I have killed rattlesnakes in the barn, in the shop and on the driveway. In fact, I kill every rattlesnake I encounter.
"I kill rattlesnakes because I know a rattlesnake will bite me and inject me with poison.

I don't stop to wonder why a rattlesnake will bite me. I know it will bite me because it's a rattlesnake and that's what rattlesnakes do.

I don't try to reason with a rattlesnake. I just kill it. I don't try to get to know the rattlesnake better so I can find a way to live with the rattlesnakes and convince them not to bite me. I just kill them.

I don't quiz a rattlesnake to see it I can find out where the other snakes are, because (a) it won't tell me, and (b) I already know they live on my place. So I just kill the rattlesnake and move on to the next one.

I don't look for ways I might be able to change the rattlesnake to a non-poisonous rat snake---I just kill it. Oh, and on occasion, I accidentally kill a rat snake because I thought it was a rattlesnake at the time. Also, I know for every rattlesnake I kill, two more are lurking out there in the brush. In my lifetime I will never be able to rid my place of rattlesnakes. Do I fear them? No!
Do I respect what they can do to me? Yes! And because of that respect I give them the fair justice they deserve...I kill them.
Maybe as a country we should start giving more thought to the fact that these jihadists' are just being like rattlesnakes - and act accordingly!"

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 5:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:41:37 -0500

I wish there were some way to tell who watched the video before commenting. My rough estimate is that more than 90% of her speaking time was spent talking about the use of force against Da'esh. She discussed direct U.S. military action, multinational attacks, and pushed POTUS' initiative to get an AUMF for increasing U.S. military action.

When she actually said the words "job" and "unemployment," she was discussing only examples of methods for combating the symptoms of radical religious ideology. CPT Private RallyPoint Member pointed out that the Da'eshholes are "primarily motivated by religious ideology, not a lack of employment." Maybe that's true enough, but what causes illiterate, uneducated, hopeless young men to become susceptible to motivation by religious ideology? It could be illiteracy and a lack of education or hope, all of which feed each other. Add to that the social (un)balance in that part of the world where men are expected to wait until their 30s or 40s to wed, and then they scoop up teenage or 20-something wives. Moreover, I'll bet the rate of female infanticide is rather high there (as in China) exacerbating the dearth of women.

Getting back on topic. Whack-a-terrorist is not a strategy. "Kill 'em all" is not a strategy (let's not forget that attrition did not work ... ever, or at least in recent history). Imperial Japan did not surrender because we killed too many of their soldiers. They capitulated because we vaporized their civilians. Germany certainly didn't surrender because they ran out of soldiers. Korea, Viet Nam, etc.

GWOT Veterans are all, however reluctantly, students of counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency. Forgetting those lessons has proved detrimental to U.S. war efforts for more than a century. Based on many of the responses here, we've already forgotten them again.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 5:44 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:44:39 -0500

I believe most people commenting negatively to her response are missing the true intent of it. It's funny because most whom are responding so aggressively are the first to scream that the media is always pitching one angle or misconstruing things. The same can be said to you. Is it really that complex of an issue to understand? Poverty in itself festers and spreads into bigger problems and it has been a factor in many of our world's dilemmas. Why when that woman suggested that killing them isn't the best option and that there's a deeper issue at hand you all go crazy?

Don't get me wrong those whom bring harm and threaten the livelihoods of the innocent should be spared no mercy but don't be so arrogant, egostistical and narrow minded. The bigger picture is clear as day and if you took the time to actually understand the factors present with terrorism and converted terrorists you might just see things differently. All of a sudden every service member here is a politician and a mastermind at solving problems yet they can't grasp the complexities of terrorism. If you think that you're going to solve this epidemic by killing more, then when Isis falls, they'll be another bunch of underprivileged, poor, ignorant, egocentric, angry psychopaths waiting to rip our hearts out. Wiping the threat out and shrinking their influence is one part of the mission. Although the rest of the mission is not easy nor feasible, it can be done. That entails so much more and requires a full effort from all parties.

It is no wonder why people see us service members as unintelligent, irrational and overall violent.

Response by Sgt Jack W made Feb 18 at 2015 6:24 PM

Sgt Jack W — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:24:37 -0500

I think Harf needs a 4th Batallion D.I. to wake her up.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Feb 18 at 2015 8:30 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:30:24 -0500

I hear they are already working for the State Department.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Feb 18 at 2015 9:22 PM

SGT Tyler G. — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:22:27 -0500

'Just' killing them is treating the symptom rather than the cause. Even if we beat back ISIS, which we should don't get me wrong, another group just like them will spring up to take their place. If we truly want to solve the issues in the middle east with regards to terrorism, the first step will be addressing the way the majority ethnic groups marginalize the others. In this case it is Sunni marginalization that drove people to accept ISIS. When people feel like they have power, like they have a say, they'll stop turning towards terrorism.

Response by SGT Steven Ransbottom made Feb 18 at 2015 9:41 PM

SGT Steven Ransbottom — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:41:31 -0500

This chick, this entire dept is far down the that rabbit hole.... Perhaps they forgot they need some pixie dust? Oh wait, they already snorted it.... SORRY, SQUIRREL!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 12:42 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 00:42:02 -0500

How'bout giving them some suicide missions? Offer them a trip to Columbia or el-Salvador, and let the show[down] begin!

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Feb 19 at 2015 2:15 AM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 02:15:46 -0500

I wont disagree. We should give ISIS jobs. They can have the jobs of policing up bodies as we destroy them!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 2:24 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 02:24:12 -0500

This woman needs to be sterilized. Root causes my butt! She is going to get more innocent people killed and 40 years from now, she or someone else in this administration will be apologizing just as the policy wonks hearts and minds B.S. How many mothers lost soldiers in Nam due to candy ass leaders with stupid policies?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 4:01 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:01:25 -0500

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 9:49 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:49:15 -0500

I think she was spot on with what she said, "We can't kill our way out of this war." Anyone who has, somewhat of, an understanding of how extremists are created and evolve would know that. To suggest that the DOS wants to employ ISIS is a little...well its just wrong. People should never be mocked for trying to understand complex issues that are put in front of them. I think the point in which she was trying to make is that the easy fix to this problem would be to continue on the path that we are on now. However, to win if at all possible, we must understand the reasons why people sympathize with ISIS.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 11:37 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:37:44 -0500

I don't think jobs will help.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

What ISIS Really Wants

The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 11:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:56:19 -0500

The only way to even come close to killing most of them would include the death of a lot of innocents, which would increase their ranks at least as much it diminished them. You can keep them in hiding, you can severely degrade their capabilities, however they can not be destroyed through force alone.

At some point you need to address the underlying causes, the reasons someone decides to join IS instead of choosing to live a peaceful life raising a family and trying to provide an even better life for their kids. How many are fighting because they have suffered at the hands of Al-Assad the Butcher? How many are fighting because their village was indiscriminately bombed by the Iraqi government? How many are fighting because there is no other work available?

Yes, there are bat shirt crazy extremists that will need to be killed... however if we want to win this struggle against IS, we are also going to have to address underlying causes.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Feb 19 at 2015 12:11 PM

SGT Steve Oakes — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:11:38 -0500

IMHO both sides of this conversation are wrong. Islam is NOT the problem. The hijacking of Islam by a few nut jobs is. Also as Mr. Matthews points out. Our government cannot even solve the economic problems here. How are they going to do so in a foreign land where their understanding of all the working parts is less than it is here? I have said it before. I believe the solution is to wage the type of all out, no holds barred. Do what needs to be done and to hell with what anyone thinks WAR.The type of thing our leaders have been afraid to do since WWII ended. Not this politically safe, warm and fuzzy , lets have them fight with one hand tied behind their back and forget about them when they come home wounded, or emotionally scarred often times both. Bullshit that we are doing now. Do it right, or back off and leave it to someone else.
My rant for the day thanks for reading.

Response by SGT Christen Newell made Feb 19 at 2015 12:41 PM

SGT Christen Newell — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:41:50 -0500

It is time for a leadership change........ It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you might be stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 1:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:13:32 -0500

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 2:17 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:17:31 -0500

Saw this and thought of this discussion! At least I got a little chuckle out of it....

Response by SPC Kimberly Anne made Feb 19 at 2015 2:34 PM

SPC Kimberly Anne — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:34:32 -0500

There was a web page related to muslims in the UK and how they were having problems getting jobs, I will bet that is what sparked all this bullshit! I don't blame anyone that won't hire a muslim, they have been found to kill other employees, hacking off heads, or shooting them, why in the hell would you hire someone that might be a murderer? Sleepers, may I remind you the men that flew into the World Trade CTR were trained here in the USA to fly. Obama has pardoned over 30K Syrians that are known to have killed our soldiers. Obama cannot use the word Terrorist and ISIS in the same sentence. Muslims can't denounce their faith, they can't talk bad about Islam, are you catching on here now. Obama was raised muslim since the age of 4, lived it, breathed it and is in our White House now with Muslim Brotherhood learning all about the USA. The number of radical muslims has increased 4 times in a short period of time. I don't care what brainwashing or means they use to transform "a peaceful" muslim into a radical one, they all want Jews and Christians DEAD. They will fight and attack until the end of time, unless they change and take over the world with their idealism. Now ask yourself what side is your president on? what was that remark Obama made? "I am not proud to be an American."

Response by CAPT Gary Foster made Feb 19 at 2015 2:45 PM

CAPT Gary Foster — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:45:18 -0500

State Department briefings: best comedy show on the planet. If they truly believe this, then let's see Kerry, Rice, Harf, and Psaki go over there for a job fair.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Feb 19 at 2015 3:14 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:14:00 -0500

Better yet, we spend all this money fighting them, us do a reverse ISIS. Since we know they pay for fighters, us just pay them to fight for us. Put our money to good use.

Response by COL Peter Aubrey made Feb 19 at 2015 3:57 PM

COL Peter Aubrey — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:57:40 -0500

Lots of excess body bags need ISIS fillers! Perfect position for some of my favorite dirt bags

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 19 at 2015 4:00 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:00:50 -0500

To me...It seems this administration tries it's best to reward the bad and punish the good.
In other words, If you want something from the United States....Just go out, find a bunch of Christians, chop their head off, burn their body, then turn around and ask the Liberals Gimmie something.....and as gushey poo liberals are...they'll give them whatever they want.
I'm sorry, lil off subject....am I the only one here that notices a open hostility towards Christians and Jews?

Response by SGT James Murphy made Feb 19 at 2015 5:05 PM

SGT James Murphy — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:05:48 -0500

I have a Job for them. Digging their own graves just before I "forgive" them after I pull the Trigger!

Response by MSgt Brian Cohenour made Feb 19 at 2015 7:55 PM

MSgt Brian Cohenour — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:55:32 -0500

She is right there in all her glory. She also said essentially that we were all too stupid to understand.

Response by MAJ Terry LaFrance made Feb 19 at 2015 10:09 PM

MAJ Terry LaFrance — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:09:30 -0500

Give 'em jobs finding IEDs.

Response by FA George Miller made Feb 19 at 2015 11:22 PM

FA George Miller — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:22:28 -0500

eradicate all of these savages

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 11:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:41:03 -0500

So we can't even give our own citizens jobs but we're gonna create jobs for a bunch of barbarians? Great job State Department.

p.s. ISIS generate between 1-3 million dollars a day and are recruiting new Islamic extremist daily.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Feb 20 at 2015 6:45 AM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 06:45:44 -0500

Members of ISIS should be given a job to.....clean areas in Gitmo. And the area is behind bars. Hooah!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2015 9:51 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:51:38 -0500

LTC Tongret, this was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Feb 20 at 2015 1:39 PM

SGT Corey Franks — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 13:39:10 -0500

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Feb 20 at 2015 1:39 PM

SGT Corey Franks — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 13:39:55 -0500

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Feb 20 at 2015 2:38 PM

SGT Corey Franks — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:38:04 -0500

Oh wow

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 20 at 2015 3:05 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:05:52 -0500

I agree that we can't win this war by killing ISIS personnel. But you know what, it doesn't bother me when I read that we sent a bunch to meet their maker.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2015 2:49 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:49:32 -0500

What has this great nation come to? I am just absolutely speechless...

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Feb 21 at 2015 11:55 AM

SSgt Randy Saulsberry — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 11:55:29 -0500

on this site it seems the dumbest questions and most ridiculous ideas come from the most senior personnel. if you would research the rise of radical islam you will find that their families live in extreme poverty, so one way the parents can ensure their kids have a good life is to let them go to the midrasas (religious schools) that way they can ensure their kid will get to eat and get some semblence of an education, because those programs are government funded. while in thsoe schools they get radicalized and end up hating america, so if someone was to try to improve lives by providing jobs which will in turn improve lifestyle which will mean theyw dont have to send their kids away which will result in them not becoming radical muslims which will result in less violence.....how is that not a good plan?

noone ever said that military action was not on the table, in case you havent heard we been bombing them for about a year now.

another thought...did taking out the mujahideen solve muslim extremism, or how about the Taliban, maybe it was when we took out Al Qaeda. nah it will be over once we get rid of ISIS

INSANITY - doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result

food for thought: the religious books that terrorsts use to radicalize people (not the Quran) was first used by the Mujahideen in Pakistan. that book was made and produced by the University of Nebraska. so in essence the book that is used to produce hate towards us was produced by us. those who are not students of history will be doomed to repeat it.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Feb 21 at 2015 12:50 PM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 12:50:11 -0500

Does anyone have the courage to really ask what these various groups of ISIS really want? Is it a peaceful source of livelihood? The right to be left alone? The right to educate or to be educated? Stop selling weapons to the Middle East? They obviously don't want to be shot at or bombed. So who is deciding that they should be? A negotiator? I work with kids. Sometimes kids misbehave because of a power struggle between them and one of their teachers at the moment. Having two teachers in the classroom we just switch places, remove that power struggle. Change the negotiator. That's not easy for some people who just want to win and always be right. People appear to resort to violence when frustrated, don't have answers or a solution. Let's help them find it

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Feb 21 at 2015 1:14 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:14:31 -0500

I would suggest range detail at every military qualification range in the US. And I don't mean as range safeties either.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Feb 21 at 2015 1:31 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:31:29 -0500

The only job I am interested in seeing them do is pig farming in hell.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Feb 21 at 2015 5:46 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 17:46:17 -0500

How about a jobs FROM ISIS program? Create a big prison.. fill it with ISIS members.. have select US supermax inmates act as the guards... then of course we have our guards.. throw the whole damned thing on TV as a reality show!

They can GIVE BACK to society!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 1:23 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:23:22 -0500

She may be right, we cannot "beat" ISIS by killing them. Just as much as you cannot "beat" crime with bigger jails, although true it doesn't mean that crime should go unpunished and we should completely disregard justice. The "root" problem may be their poor economy, but the crimes against those who oppose their ideology is the real problem the world is facing today. I don't think anyone has ever said that killing ISIS would solve the sociopolitical and economical issues of the region or that it would solve the root causes that allowed ISIS to rise in the first place, that would be incredibly naive and it would be just as naive to believe that we can defeat ISIS without killing them. We could talk for years about all the layers and intricacies of this problem and debate ideologies and strategies until they come knocking on our front door once again and America suddenly remembers what the word JUSTICE means.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Mar 22 at 2015 5:19 PM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Sun, 22 Mar 2015 17:19:03 -0400

Some people join the U.S. Military for a job, Right?

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Apr 4 at 2015 9:40 AM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 09:40:54 -0400

Sure we beat kill ISIS by killing them. The challenge is that for one you kill a hundred become radicalized. At that rate, its difficult to gain control. However, 1LT William Clardy reminded me that we used carpet bomb regions in WWII. It would be politically unpopular, but it would destroy the pool of personnel that they get their recruits and neutralize ISIS and any other terrorists in the region
Oh course, we won't do that. Nor should we.
It's just a reminder thought that choose to be humanitarian, not that we CANT beat and/or kill anybody or group we want. We have the power and resources

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 10:52 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 10:52:32 -0400

You might not win by killing them, but it is a good start.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 4 at 2015 6:23 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:23:58 -0500

Is that what the best and brightest can come up with? ISIS is based on ideology, not economics.