Was a 3 Star at SOCOM out of line for losing it on his subordinates?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:28:20 -0500

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/12/17/dod-report-details-3-stars-profane-reaction-socom-briefing/77489372/

I previously served with LTG Mulholland at USASOC from 2012-2014 and noted that he was an excellent Commander and cared for his unit and people under his command. Does the Army have a problem with colorful statements or have we as a service just gotten soft because a leader expressed his displeasure at a briefing. Thoughts or comments?

DoD report details 3-star's profane reaction to SOCOM briefing

A three-star general "failed to treat his subordinates with dignity and respect" when he unleashed a tirade loaded with f-bombs during a 2014 briefing at U.S. Special Operations Command headquarters and suggested the presenters be shot, according to a Defense Department report.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 9:34 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:34:05 -0500

Isn't the f-bomb a mandated Army adjective??? Seriously though, I have no issues with a commander using colorful language to get a much needed point across.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 18 at 2015 9:34 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:34:44 -0500

Depends on context. If he was unhappy with the format of some PowerPoint slides, clearly this was inappropriate. If, however, he just found out that the bulk of his staff was recorded by the media going on a cocaine fueled weekend bender populated with midget child prostitutes who also happen to be ISIS double agents, than this was clearly an under reaction...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 9:36 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:36:47 -0500

God forbid we use rough & tumble language when speaking to supposedly rough & tumble people. Their fragilities might be offended.
I think the PC culture has been taken too far.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 9:40 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:40:47 -0500

Apparently some need to develop a thicker skin.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 18 at 2015 9:44 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:44:11 -0500

Waaa waa somebodies crying cause the General cussed at me! Suck it up and drive on....

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 9:48 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:48:47 -0500

If I were giving a briefing to a 3 Star and if it was bad enough for him to drop the F-Bomb(s), then I would pull my head out of my fourth point of contact and fix my briefing. Too many people too easily butthurt.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:01 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:01:39 -0500

hey you can blame those that complained, we train them that way in boot camp too.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 18 at 2015 10:09 AM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:09:01 -0500

My gut reaction...? Suck it up Buttercup! You're in the armed services. If you can't handle a little bit of "colorful language" hurled your way, you damn sure can't handle a combat deployment. IMO, the major problem with the services today is to much focus on sensitivity and not enough focus on learning the warrior ethos.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 18 at 2015 10:11 AM

SGT William Howell — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:11:53 -0500

I have a ton of respect for this guy. To tell your team that they should be shot or should go out and shoot themselves. Sounds like somebody was not doing their job and they got the ass chewing they deserved. I find it humorous that nobody talked about the brief. I can only assume it was as bad as he thought. God help us if we can't find men who speak their mind to lead us.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:12 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:12:32 -0500

File a hurt feelings report.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Dec 18 at 2015 10:27 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:27:29 -0500

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member - I certainly have no issue with "colorful" language to get a point across, when appropriate, but I do think he crossed the line when he told subordinates they should be shot. He is a 3-star and should have more self-control. Rant and rave all you want, but don't step over the line and publicly ridicule subordinates and tell them they should be shot.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 18 at 2015 10:31 AM

SSG Todd Halverson — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:31:16 -0500

All I can say is Suck it up Buttercup.... This the real Military and not the Girl Scouts..... If they can't handle a good ass chewing when it is deserved, they are in the wrong profession. This is a clear example of how our Military is getting wussified.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 18 at 2015 10:35 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:35:28 -0500

Is he in the fat boy program?

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 18 at 2015 10:42 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:42:33 -0500

I worked at a Message Center just outside DC in the mid 70s. We had an OIC that was a bit of a hard ass, but a good officer. Our site was where all the other commands associated with Naval Communications sent there miscreants because we could manage them. One was basically non-recoverable and the WO said, in front of me that he should go and shoot himself. The guy took it up the chain and eventually the CO called me in to explain. I started out by defending the WO, whom I respected, and was brought up short by the CO who asked again, "Did He say that?". I had to admit that he did in the heat of the discussion but that was never his SOP. The WO was fired and I ended up with his job for my loyalty and honesty.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Dec 18 at 2015 11:13 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:13:42 -0500

When did we stop being the Army and become the Girl Scouts?

Reading it, it appeared to me that the those presenting the report should have done a better job and I am sure this was not the first time these SOLDIERS had come up lacking. These appear to be Special Operations SOLDIERS who are hearing the 'F-bomb' because they messed up a report?

My only problem with this only thing is that the General appears to have back pedaled from the report and offered apologies to his subordinates. I wish the story ended something like this...and if you are offended by salty language, stop reading here...you have been warned.

Lt. Gen. John F. Mulholland Jr. response to the statement that he unleashed a tirade loaded with f-bombs during a 2014 briefing: "Of course I became upset when presented with such shitty work on such an important matter. If these senior leaders in Special Forces Command cannot handle hearing the word fuck, they need fucking quit NOW! This is the fucking military are you fucking kidding me? Kevin, don't have something more important to than waster everyone's time on this bull shit non-story?"

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 18 at 2015 12:07 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 12:07:40 -0500

Ignore the language issue for a moment. Read between the lines.

When a normally composed THREE STAR (Political Officer), loses it in front of 30+ Military & Civilians, including FOREIGN military, this is not "normal."

Something else is going on. The General wasn't upset about the Brief. He was upset about something else, and the Brief was the trigger that set him off. "The straw that broke the camel's back."

The article said 2 people called the hotline within 10 days. 3 Star General briefing, that means O4/E6+ (at least). These aren't "pansies" in there. These are people genuinely concerned that something is wrong, because the General "snapped." The pressure got to him, and he had an outward & visible explosion.

Everyone needs to vent. EVERYONE needs to vent. Most of us vent up. Who does a 3 star vent to?

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Dec 18 at 2015 1:28 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:28:11 -0500

Yep, this is a mole-hill, described as a mountain. The boss yelled at you. Big deal.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Dec 18 at 2015 1:58 PM

PO1 Brian Austin — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:58:33 -0500

Some overly sensitive types were apparently upset that he dropped F-bombs instead of holding hands and singing Kumbayaa.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 18 at 2015 2:02 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:02:09 -0500

You do what your rank and paycheck can afford. Would I get away with this? No, but there is a time and place to "go off" and you have to know your audience. In this case he could've been right, but the delivery left much to be desired I guess. If everyone was to get but hurt everytime a "bad word" was said by someone, there'd be an sudden and massive amount of job openings at the senior ranks both enlisted and officer. There would be a lot of sudden retirements or Art15 with folks walking out the Co area with less rank on.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Dec 18 at 2015 3:22 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:22:55 -0500

They just don't make standard service members like they used to...

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Dec 18 at 2015 3:57 PM

CW3 Jim Norris — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:57:28 -0500

Warriors are never appreciated by the left. You don't win wars with Boy Scouts and panty waist leaders. Schwarzkopf was a colorful language using warrior. My impression is that Mulholland is guilty of that, sorry if the little snowflake officers in attendance where 'offended'.... Sticks and stones may break my bones - but an ass chewing by my boss never resulted in incoming fire from an enemy, a half baked defense posture approved of by a lackadaisical leader has. Give me that fire breather every time, it saves lives.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 4:18 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 16:18:21 -0500

I've had the pleasure of working with him on two different projects when I was out at Bragg (as an Army Wife and PGR member). He attended my Wreaths Across America ceremony as a DV in 2009 and we later collaborated when the PGR attended the funeral of one of his fallen soldiers. His coin in my collection is one of my prized.

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Dec 18 at 2015 6:20 PM

MAJ Alvin B. — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:20:50 -0500

He would not be the first one to express displeasure with briefings in a colorful manner.
Years ago a three star commander fired staff members Who could not brief without note cards or scripts.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 10:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 22:52:47 -0500

While in Bragg, I had the pleasure to hear him speak to a team of SOF guys from Bragg and I have to admit he was on point! He used the f bomb but in a nice way and wished us luck as we departed for deployment! I think there is a time and a place, he should have told the other groups to step out and cussed his team out as much as he wants. The integration of civilians into our defense organization has soften our Army and truly influenced the use of Politically Correctness language that's new to the Army. We have become prisoners of our civil counterparts in the service and they alone are not going to keep quiet about anything. Hence if I were a commander, I would ask them to step out and address my green suitors. He also overstepped his lane when he said they should shoot themselves, now the report is a bit contradicted by many witnesses but again if he said it than it was wrong.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 5:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:28:31 -0500

Coming from a Jr. Enlisted soldier who creates lots of reports, among many other duties throughout my usually 60 hour work week, usually for the use of higher ups, I firmly believe that the LTG was 100% in the right. Sure maybe he could have worded it slightly differently, but the way in which it was originally worded was to show just exactly how much of an issue he had with this briefing. If the briefing was this bad that it rendered such an outburst, then in my opinion it must have been well deserved. People are starting to forget that this is a military, and what we do day in and day out is very, very real. This isn't just some excel sheet, or powerpoint presentation by Todd from marketing. This is real life, and affects everyone in the TOC, on the battlefield, and in the briefing room especially. Because this is so real, the fact that something so wrong could put not only civilians in foreign lands in danger, as well as green forces, but also our own brothers and sisters on the ground. Because this is so real, people need to have this pounded in their head to get it right. This is a military, we are war fighters, not a bunch of cubical workers who just clock out. It used to be that profanity was acceptable and seemingly encouraged in the Military and now everyones feelings get hurt when someone drops an F-bomb. Well their feelings are going to hurt a lot more when their brief was garbage, and someone drops a real bomb killing innocents, or putting their own brothers and sisters in harms way.

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Dec 20 at 2015 5:34 PM

SCPO Joshua I — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:34:48 -0500

People are soft. They have no resilience, and they need to be coddled instead of told where they screwed up.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 5:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 17:46:34 -0500

I think it's worth remembering that the SOCOM HQ is not populated by a bunch of pansies, but rather rangers, seals, SF guys and operators . So I doubt this is an issue of someone being offended by the use of the F word. More likely it was a case of a senior officers humiliating the briefers in an extremely unprofessional manner. I saw that in many briefings in my career, which included briefings at USASOC and SOCOM HQs. It was counterproductive and certainly did nothing to inspire anyone. Instead it just created a climate of overcaution in the command, where no one would want to upset the general by telling him anything other than what he wanted to hear, whether it was right or wrong.

I dont have a link to it now, but a few years ago LTG Fredovich from SOCOM wrote an article about how he had become addicted to painkillers from his injuries, and how that transformed him from a positive inspirational leader to a destructive, negative one. I'm not implying the same thing here. I just suggest that when members of the SOCOM staff, all pretty elite and hard guys in their own right, surface issue with a generals behavior, it wasnt likely it was due to simply the use of the Fword.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 21 at 2015 1:30 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:30:51 -0500

I am not understanding the problem here. If the briefing was jacked up, then he has reason to be upset. Is that a new Army rule that I am unaware of? No bad words?

The question I have was after being yelled at, did the briefing team correct the problem and provide a satisfactory briefing to the Admiral? If they did, then the Generals "feedback" was effective communication.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 6:06 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 06:06:04 -0500

Sometimes you just have to vent. Maybe the shooting people or himself comments were a bit much, but he did own up to his mistake and apologize, and he has a track record of being a good leader. I am suprised they were offended by the cussing, you think those people made it that far without blowing up and at least cussing out one person? I've been cussed out when I mess up, you just have to do better.

Response by LTC Eric Udouj made Dec 21 at 2015 9:25 AM

LTC Eric Udouj — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 09:25:12 -0500

Probably that briefing should have stopped right from the start when it was clear the briefing team and Mulholland were not on the same page with what was to be briefed to SOCOM CDR. To carry it forward probably was the bigger mistake in making things worse if the issues that the one being briefed sees as incorrect are the basis of the whole brief. It is exactly the purpose of a pre-brief to iron out and cross out the final brief so that it is the correct product. Mountains out of mole hills. The real aspect of it is the unasked question - did the Global SOF plan that finally made it to McRaven succeed and how much of that is due to Mulholland's efforts - a year plus afterwards and now under GEN Votel.

Response by SGT Robert Riley made Dec 21 at 2015 1:22 PM

SGT Robert Riley — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:22:34 -0500

No. If you can't endure a reinforced ass-chewing, you should just pack your bags and go back to your pillow fort at home, where stuffed animals won't hurt your fucking feelings. There's a time and place to pepper your speech with coarse language and I guess his subordinates really needed that "wake up"call. The idiot who wrote that DoD report is most likely some hung strung male cunt who never served or an armchair brass hat with highly sensitive feelings.

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Dec 21 at 2015 1:28 PM

1SG Jack Crutcher — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:28:06 -0500

I wouldn't take it personally unless he was calling me a MF, SOB or something of that nature. If you are so sensitive maybe you are in the wrong line of work, if you need a hug see your Chaplin.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 1:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:37:17 -0500

1ST Healy has it right, file a 'hurt feelings' report... I mean PEOPLE THIS IS THE ARMY! Get over it! You don't like cussin' get out of the military, because you damn well know that ALL branches of the military cuss! Good lord.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Dec 21 at 2015 1:37 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:37:36 -0500

I hate this new sensitive army. Expletives and harsh words is the best way for a leader to get his or her point across. What briefings do you remember the most? The ones with swearing and shouting in it, or the ones with clean language in a soft tone.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Dec 21 at 2015 2:05 PM

Lt Col Stephen Petzold — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 14:05:22 -0500

Never would have made it through my Afghan tour working for a Marine O-6 if I would have had to file a complaint every time I heard the F bomb!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 3:20 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 15:20:57 -0500

I am currently serving Non-Judicial Punishment for the same thing. Junior sailors reporting that I was bullying them when I told them to do their F***ing job and stop acting like self-entitled children. The irony of everyone on here stating they see no issue with this General's statements? No one will stand for what they believe in when the time comes. Sure, behind a keyboard they spread their chest and tell the buttercups to suck it up, but when the time comes to advocate for another individual? Crickets.
GM2(SW) James Greene

Response by CSM William Payne made Dec 21 at 2015 3:43 PM

CSM William Payne — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 15:43:39 -0500

I wish I had a nickel everytime the F-Bomb was dropped on me during my career, and the target audience was SOCOM . . . . . . Just wait till the real ladies show up.

Response by PO3 Duke Glishke made Dec 21 at 2015 4:26 PM

PO3 Duke Glishke — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 16:26:04 -0500

Give 'em hell!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2015 3:12 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 03:12:36 -0500

It seems to me that so many people here get so over eager to start playing the "too sensitive" blame game and immediately want to defend their right to drop the f-bomb that nobody even inquired about the content of the speech. Did he say he was going to "fuck" someone's spouse? We dont know. We don't have all the details. Everyone is on such a "can't see the forest for the trees" type of mindset and ready to get up in arms without all the evidence needed to make a judgement. When a full transcript is available, then maybe fair judgement can be passed.

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Dec 22 at 2015 8:38 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 20:38:59 -0500

Looks like this fat body General needs take a hard look at himself before reprimanding his subordinates!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 4:12 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 04:12:08 -0500

It might just be a service wide complacency issue; "hurt feelings" are something you put in your pocket and deal with later. Perhaps giving these people straws won't allow them to suck it up anymore. What I find really strange is that it appears that people don't understand the gravity of why briefing at this level properly is so important. This LTG's stress level and "venting" doesn't even matter. USSOCOM has no time and is not the place for people to half-ass briefs. Stress is a daily part of life, as lives are constantly in the balance on the words these people use when telling the commander about situations he's making decisions on. When an order was given, such as to plan the integration of foreign liaison officers into the command (a very important scheme of maneuver requiring surgical precision due to sensitivities), and briefers couldn't properly convey how it's to work, that means that someone didn't do their homework. This command is responsible for the manning, training, and equipping of SOF to be able conduct special operations, much of which has extreme time and detail oriented sensitivities. Things such as briefings must be on point at all times. A LTG doesn't need to have to do this unless his staff is completely f'd up which appears is the case: in a minute there were problems with the brief, and when briefers arguing, interrupting, and disrupting the General while he's going off pointing out errors and inaccuracies, no matter how he does so, is indicative of a thorough lack of discipline and respect for his position. On top of that, these type of wash-downs are a part of daily life; did people think that this would just go away as they rose in rank?