Waiver denied for USMC. Is it really possible to try again or should I look towards the Army?

2018-12-15T22:37:02-05:00

Update: Called an Army recruiting center. I was told that unless I get my depression diagnosis overturned, theyll most likely deny me as well and they just dealt with something similar recently. So im pretty much doomed... Really thought I left my shit in 2012....

Warning: I tend to add detail, so this is sorta long. My apologies, but I like to provide any necessary details to give any answers an idea and prevent questions that could've been answered had I not been lazy and just given some details.

So I tried to enlist in the Marines and was, sadly, denied. Apparently, and this was news to me, I am diagnosed with clinical depression and had been since 2012. Now there's a lot to my diagnosis, but the gist of it is: It makes no since, I've never been medicated, and according to all the therapists notes (sent to BUMED) I've never once come in seeming/feeling depressed or suicidal.

Now with that in mind, my recruiter suggested I could go Army or wait a couple yrs. Since I'm more set on the Marines, I am willing to wait. But I am concerned on if it's worth it or possible. I was denied due to a diagnosis I didn't know I had and been fine. How do I "improve" on it in a few years when I was already behaving normally? I have no self-harm scars or history, no drug use, no medications to kick (or using as is), no drinking, no criminal background, not even a speeding ticket, and I don't even smoke. How could I possible do better than I already am? All I can do is get my associates, I guess. But given I was denied for a surprise diagnosis (it literally stated the depression was why), I am discouraged on even trying. Im also concerned on if it's even possible since I was denied by BUMED, and after eight days since being approved by MEPS.

Now if it IS possible, my biggest challenge is obviously this diagnosis. I am seeing a different therapist to get to the bottom of why I'm still diagnosed with something I genuinely didn't know I had, felt I had, or thought about whatsoever. It's mostly to get an updated psych evaluation and assessment. But other than that, is there really ANYTHING I can do to sort of "prove" to BUMED that I'm fine?

And if it isn't possible, then I can peacefully know I tried and find a way to get rid of this diagnosis regardless. I refuse to be latched with a diagnosis that has such a low impact on my life that I didn't even know was there. I admit it did when I was 15, but I'm damn near 22 and obviously changed/removed those stressors.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 10:44 PM

2018-12-15T22:44:19-05:00

Let's ask some people:

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 11:09 PM

2018-12-15T23:09:39-05:00

Christian King Other knowledgeable RallyPoint members will provide you with information. I would like to see a way that you can enlist. Good luck Christian, and keep us posted.
BUMED:
The Bureau of Medicine and Surgery (BUMED) is an agency of the United States Department of the Navy that manages health care activities for the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html

Medical Conditions That Can Keep You From Joining the Military

These standards generally apply to all branches of the military. None of them are automatic disqualifiers, just red flags.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Dec 15 at 2018 11:46 PM

2018-12-15T23:46:59-05:00

Christian King your biggest obstacle is the diagnosis. If you were prescribed meds and I did not see that mentioned and your parents filled them....regardless if you took them or not you have a pre-existing condition that is very hard to waive. You would have to have another doc over turn the original diagnosis. I dont have the accession reg in front of me to quote it, but having this before you come in is a steep road to climb. Have you spoke with any other service recruiters? The limitation for the military is accepting a person that will more than likely require treatment for life as well as being a non deployable asset. Without seeing how you were rated or dis qual'd, I can only guess. The AF will not take you of that I am sure. The Army however is p in niches for bodies and may waive it. I have read the Marines and Navy are following AF lead. I wish you luck and wish I had better news. Again try an Army recruiter and maybe you can cross over later. Thanks for calling this to my attention LTC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by PO3 Aaron Hassay made Dec 16 at 2018 12:53 AM

2018-12-16T00:53:49-05:00

See if you can get, from your recruiter, some of your privacy information, your PULHES score (study this online definition etc) and if there is a Permanent Profile or 3P which is permanent disqualification which is a DOD standard code given by a Profiling Officer that can happen at MEPS and also in service by any profiling officer and definitetly an officer at BUMED. Go to your local congress person as well with all information and I have heard this helps with waivers as well.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 16 at 2018 1:12 AM

2018-12-16T01:12:37-05:00

This is also a reason many people that are in uniform when they have issues don't seek assistance because they fear being labeled and removed from their duties and having that follow them. Issues that could be resolved aren't and buried but not cured and then without treatment get worse. It seems there are medical solutions to other physical problems but a failure on mental health issues and despite what is said that hasn't changed. Past stress situations may not exist any longer but it seems they never forget and look at it like they could arise again. There are situations however where people have gone off the deep end and the services and even the civilian Community are still concerned with that prospect and are terrified of having to deal with that sort of situation. That often doesn't take into account the learning process of growing into an adult and mistakes made as a juvenile while You were growing into adulthood that are well behind You. I'm not a medical person or qualified even slightly in that area but perhaps a second opinion for another Mental health care professional could help ? I wish You the best of luck in Your future careers and reaching whatever goals You set for Yourself.

Response by LTC David Brown made Dec 16 at 2018 7:08 AM

2018-12-16T07:08:49-05:00

You need to find out who diagnosed you. Was it a psychiatrist or psychologist? If a pediatrician or general practitioner it may be easier to get the diagnosis expunged . What age etc. were you diagnosed? You have a right to your medical records. Then start action to get diagnose removed if appropriate. Not sure how this works for military enlistment but the diagnosis can affect you going forward in the civilian world also.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 16 at 2018 7:25 AM

2018-12-16T07:25:47-05:00

Sometimes these are waiverable and sometimes not. It depends on how the diagnosis was written and who is looking at it. As many have said, the Army is short of people and would be the most likely to allow you to enlist right now.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 10:37 AM

2018-12-16T10:37:02-05:00

It is unlikely the Army will waive the medical condition the Marines denied a waiver for because they use the same standard: DODI 6130.30.
You have to have been stable for 36 months. However, you can't have required treatment for more than 24 months.
Your post stated you had the diagnosis since 2012, but didn't state how long you received treatment.
If you were treated for less than 24 months (cumulative) you MAY be eligible, but you would need 36-months post a diagnosis that the condition no longer exists to be eligible for (not guaranteed) a waiver. However, if you were seen by a doctor or mental health professional (therapist) for more than 24 months, it appears that it may not be waiverable at any point in the future.
DODI 6130.30
29. f. History of depressive disorders, including but not limited to major depression (296), dysthymic disorder (300.4), and cyclothymic disorder requiring outpatient care for longer than 12 months by a physician or other mental health professional (to include V65.40), or any inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility.
29. g. Depressive disorder not otherwise specified (311), or unspecified mood disorder (296.90),
UNLESS:
(1) Outpatient care was not required for longer than 24 months (cumulative) by a
physician or other mental health professional (to include V65.40).
(2) The applicant has been stable without treatment for the past 36 continuous months.
(3) The applicant did not require any inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 12:58 PM

2018-12-16T12:58:12-05:00

Navy only. Other branches that's a DODI no go.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2018 3:24 PM

2018-12-16T15:24:42-05:00

I had a similar issue in my record as a young man. It took 5 years and 5 visits to their psychology center, but they removed it.

Best of luck.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 6:05 AM

2018-12-17T06:05:05-05:00

Mr. King,
We need to have a conversation. Contact me via private message. I believe it will be fine.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Dec 17 at 2018 9:46 AM

2018-12-17T09:46:25-05:00

Ok- im old coast guard and have been an RN certified and working in psych for 10 years. Find out which physician or medical entity made the diagnosis (dx). Then challenge that dx and request it be removed from your medical records if there is no supporting documentation to have this dx in your records. Also keep in mind this- the marine corps and army have a high incidence of PTSD. Its a clinically founded and evidenced fact that pwople with a predisposition to depression and far more susceptible to ptsd and other maladies once placed under extended high levels of stress. Has to do with serotonin levels and receptors. Knowing this- choose wisely. Have you sought out other services who may be a bit more lax in criteria in this specific area such as the navy/coast guard/airforce? Successful completion of a term of service can aid in your admission to a second service. Many of my old LeDet team moved on from cg to army/marine corps. Food for thought.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 17 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-12-17T12:00:03-05:00

I applaud you for wanting to come in. I'd buy you a beer for the fact you haven't given up on trying to get in. I'm taking the beer back because you want to be a Marine, but that's ok....sorta....I'm a little butthurt you are choosing the Army as a second fiddle. You having this medical problem is a front burner thing right now. The military as a whole is dealing with a lot of troops who have been diagnosed with various forms of depression to include PTSD, and if it makes them non deployable(even if they kick ass at their jobs, and can take care of their Joes), they will be shown the door with a "thank you". You need to focus on YOU right now. Read what the docs have said, and come up with a plan of attack that knocks em down, and gives you one more step to your goal of being a crayoneater. If you help yourself FIRST, you'll be soo much wiser, so much more in tune, and be a leader who by first hand experience can see a situation coming before it happens. If you can get yourself straight and come in, you ARE what we need, at time where you're needed the most. You WANT to be in, where many do it just because.
Get treatment. Understand new coping skills, implement them, and try again. If you can prove you have it in "control"(depression is never truly beaten), you'd be a fool not to come in after all that work. But at the same time, if you couldn't, you did NOT fail in your mission, you need to establish a new mission that could still give you some of what you want. There is more than one way to serve. Keep going to school and there will be a DI or DS waiting to yell at you for everything when you're straight.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2018 12:17 PM

2018-12-18T12:17:22-05:00

Very slim chance, and it would not be a fast process. Were you a minor when you were diagnosed? If so, you'd need a parent or guardian to write a letter explaining the situation and stating that you have never taken medication. You would need another psychologist to overturn the diagnosis and it would still be submitted for a psych consult, and how that would turn out is anyone's guess.