VA spent $6.3 million on sculptures and fountains for their hospitals. Should they have?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:00:13 -0400

VA spent $6.3 million on sculptures and fountains for their hospitals. Should they have?

RP Members what do you think? Could this money have been put to better use for veterans or decrease backlogs with additional resources?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2015/10/09/the-va-spent-6-3-million-on-sculptures-and-fountains-for-their-hospitals-should-they-have/

There’s a $483,000 rock sculpture that’s layered into cubes outside the mental health center at the Department of Veterans Affairs hospital in Palo Alto, Calif., that’s meant to evoke “a sense of transformation, rebuilding and self-investigation,” according to designers. It’s part of a renovated $1.3 million courtyard.

There’s an art installation on the side of a parking garage that displays quotes by Abraham Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt in Morse code, at a cost of $285,000. It lights up.

Chairman of Veterans Affairs Committee calls the spending "wasteful."

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Oct 12 at 2015 3:01 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:01:38 -0400

If they were hiring local veterans to produce the sculptures it may have been money well spent.
However, COL Mikel J. Burroughs I suspect very few if any veterans were involved in the process to develop the sculptures except for manual labor perhaps.

Response by Sgt Andrew Zapf made Oct 12 at 2015 3:04 PM

Sgt Andrew Zapf — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:04:16 -0400

I say no. If the american people, civilans could all pitch in and make these monuments. Thats selfless and it honors the cause. I think the VA spends well on one side of the house. However it seems like unsupervised it's like a kid with a credit card. Just my 2 cents.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 12 at 2015 3:12 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:12:13 -0400

I'm torn on this issue. I think the VA should have "art" however I don't think the VA should be the one controlling the funds for it. I think this should be something more akin of a tenant/landlord relationship with the Smithsonian (Government Administered Organization) just like the VA shouldn't actually own the land they sit on if that makes sense.

If they want Art, they should "borrow" or "lease" it.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Oct 12 at 2015 3:14 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:14:58 -0400

1-800-Fraud-Waste-and-Abuse...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 3:15 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:15:37 -0400

Well, the money they didn't want to spend on vets had to be spent somewhere somehow.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Oct 12 at 2015 3:16 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:16:23 -0400

Looks like they are putting a fresh coat of paint on a turd....goes back to the old adage "If it don't run, you paint it!"

For those looking at the article, I suggest you listen to the video clip of Congressman Jeff Miller (FL). The money spent on the art could have been spent to hire folks to serve our Veterans!

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Oct 12 at 2015 3:38 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:38:58 -0400

Stupid stupid stupid.....

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 12 at 2015 3:40 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:40:22 -0400

I am tired of the excessives, incompetence, and valueless actions by the VA.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Oct 12 at 2015 3:46 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:46:29 -0400

A lot of people want to discount the value of art, but have you ever been to an austere hospital? They're terrifying. Private hospitals spend MUCH more than that for just one building. Hell, the hospital I work at spent more than that by a long shot. Why? The mental and emotional side of things is extraordinarily important.

Hospitals are stressful. You don't go to them for fun. Art makes it less scary, more interesting and a more pleasant experience. Environment has a significant impact on healing and art is an important part of the human experience, even though some like to pretend it's a froo-froo waste of time and money.

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made Oct 12 at 2015 3:59 PM

SPC Dan Goforth — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:59:22 -0400

I am concerned over the expenditure on art when there are backlogs of veterans not receiving the treatment they need. However, in the long term, I think it is a good idea. As SGT Brookins said, improving the environment does help with healing. I feel the VA should have gone with a few fountains and planters for their facilities for now, and added the more expensive art after backlogs are taken care of.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 4:28 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:28:55 -0400

Did the money actually come out of the VA Budget or did the money come in from a grant or something similar? The reason I ask this is, it would make a big difference in my mind if it was out of the VA budget. Often times, the media does not know where the money comes from. They just see that money was spent. For example, they had a solar project at our VA medical center. They got a lot of backlash about it from the media. HOWEVER, the money was a federal grant specifically for the solar project and never came out of VA budget.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 12 at 2015 6:05 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:05:05 -0400

Could and should are dangerous questions, not the least when speaking about the VA. IF I had to guess, these projects were approved in September. They found they had money left that year and HAD to spend it so they could ask for more money the next year. Just another example of a big problem.

Response by CPT Topher Murphy made Oct 12 at 2015 6:09 PM

CPT Topher Murphy — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:09:10 -0400

Working for the VA it drives me up the wall seeing these things occur. I have seen where a skylight ($40K) was installed. However I found out that is took them several yrs to get the contracts etc to get it installed.

Here's an idea: display military paraphernalia in the hospitals. I'm talking about coin displays, flags (unit, etc), flight suits, etc.

Veterans would much rather see this than austere white walls.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 9:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:25:37 -0400

No that 6.3 million dollars could have been spent on quality care for Veterans or Veterans Benefits. Just a waste of money without any consequences for an object that will not improve enhance the quality of life for any Veteran. Somebody should be fired for approving 6.3 million dollars for a project of this nature.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Oct 12 at 2015 9:33 PM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:33:59 -0400

IF the money was paid to veterans to create veteran art to support veterans, then I support this expenditure. If not, it was a huge waste of money.

Response by SMSgt David Zobel made Oct 12 at 2015 9:34 PM

SMSgt David Zobel — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:34:16 -0400

I kinda like the morse code mural.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 12 at 2015 10:04 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:04:10 -0400

Totally unnecessary, but I haven't read the building contract either. Some builders factor that fu-fu fuffy stuff in with the bids. For example, did you know that when they added family housing at Fort Campbell (cicra 2001-ish) that the lowest bid came in that INCLUDED a community pool? He won the contract, and was told not to put the pool in. It did not get reduced from the total price, the Army just said not to install it. They didn't want other housing areas to get pissy. It made my head want to explode because our housing still had lead paint and we had to sign a waiver and weren't allowed to put a single nail into the wall. Some government contracts are incredible.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Oct 12 at 2015 11:11 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:11:01 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, the answer is NO. I'll bet there are many excellent veteran artists that would be glad to have their art displayed for the materials and transport costs alone.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made Oct 13 at 2015 1:24 AM

SrA Daniel Hunter — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 01:24:18 -0400

I think it's lovely. I could sit there and wait six months for an appointment.

Response by SPC Lazaro (Laz) Diaz made Oct 13 at 2015 8:44 AM

SPC Lazaro (Laz) Diaz — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:44:56 -0400

That is so redicoulous, I can't even wrap my head around it. I guess it shows where their priorities lie.

Response by MSgt Danny Hope made Oct 13 at 2015 8:57 AM

MSgt Danny Hope — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:57:54 -0400

Hell no! This is a perfect example of FWA.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Oct 13 at 2015 9:00 AM

SGT James Hastings — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:00:26 -0400

I would wish that they spent more actually helping vets, especially those with PTSD.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 9:59 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:59:32 -0400

Of course they should have......even if they had the best world class care in the world folks would complain if the facilities looked like crap.......it's just in our nature as human beings. Having worked in many medical facilities I will tell you if that if the facility is nice and clean with pretty stuff around the patients are happier....even if their care is sub-par.....hell if you add free internet you'd probably cut complaints down by half again. The VA is in a no win situation right now no matter what they spend on money on everyone is going to tear them to pieces....but come on let's be real if you had to go get your exam in a double wide trailer you'd be complaining....we expect a certain level of care and with the level of care comes an expectation of modern facilities with all the trimmings......hell right after 9-11 the biggest complaint we had to deal with was "How come the Starbucks kiosk is closed".....yes it's a lot of money but we have it in our sights only because we are looking for something to shoot at not because it's a viable target.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Oct 13 at 2015 10:52 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:52:19 -0400

From CATO
"The federal government has hundreds of agencies and
thousands of programs, and it now spends almost $4
trillion a year. The government has grown too large to
manage efficiently. Agencies have little incentive to
control costs or improve quality, and Congress does a poor
job of overseeing the executive branch to ensure good
performance. As a result, many federal agencies suffer
from wasteful spending practices."
"Cost overruns have plagued hospital construction by
the Department of Veterans Affairs.7 A hospital currently
being built in Orlando has more than doubled in cost from
$254 million to $616 million. And a hospital being built
near Denver has quintupled in cost from $328 million to
$1.7 billion."

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Oct 13 at 2015 12:59 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:59:13 -0400

I'm all for beautification, but this sounds like one of those $400 hammers.

When it comes to ANY hospital system (not just the VA) my asshole starts to pucker whenever I start to hear about anything that makes me believe that people are making crazy profits from the sickness and death of other people.

Just seems morally wrong to me... profiting from your fellow man's misfortune.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Oct 13 at 2015 1:18 PM

Cpl Chris Rice — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:18:44 -0400

First I would want to know if the VA has any power over this, is a couple of times of noticed recently the Congress will go after an agency for the way they use their money but that is how Congress has apportioned it to them. So if for example Congress said the VA has so much money that they can spend on the Palo Alto hospital, I cannot fault the VA for utilizing that money to its fullest extent for the construction of that hospital, because they cannot use that money to hire doctors.

Next I work at a nonprofit hospital that has giant pieces of artwork just like this, and there’s a lot of times that these considerations are very upfront in the architecture of the design. For example did you know that straight hallways cause individuals to be tense, and stressed. If your hospital has more winding or open corridors it allows your patients and their families to be as tranquil as possible. You also allow the hospital to design units in a way that the nurse can see into each individual room that they’re responsible for from a single place, this allows them to do the paperwork that needs to be done without losing direct line of sight from their patients. On the other hand if you build a hospital that has a lot of straight lines that you can fit more rooms into it, and it will be much cheaper. In fact if you plan a hospital in giant wards where only a curtain separates each patient you can make the facility for dirt cheap.

I’m not saying that the VA did not go overboard, I am saying that I doubt the Congress is taking this into account, and I would almost guarantee that all they saw was the number and they are flipping out. I almost worry on top of all this that it will become a race to the bottom in VA facilities. Now if down the road Congress has an expert testify to having aesthetically pleasing hospital is non-therapeutic, I would totally agree with them cutting the funding on it.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 2:20 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:20:38 -0400

The big problem is that this "art" may have gone through ten years or more in the contracting process - and it was approved a long time ago. If they cancelled the contract, they would pay the funds out anyway - so they might as well get something for it. It sucks to lose that kind of money, but we need to take a step back and look at the WHOLE picture before we dog-pile on the idea.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 13 at 2015 3:28 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:28:33 -0400

They should have spent that money to train their staff on not only medicine but etiquette as well, Money wasted I say.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Oct 13 at 2015 3:48 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:48:58 -0400

That amount of money should be spent for the care of veterans and not into a pet idea of an administrator, if they want art there are a lot of gifted Veterans that can be asked and paid at a acceptable price.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 13 at 2015 6:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:01:46 -0400

It is easy to forgive an expenditure anomaly, however, an organization that is excessive should always be under much scrutiny. The cardinal rules for budgeting is Purpose, Time, Amount (PTA). Purpose, is it a legitimate need? Time, which fiscal year's dollars will we spend. Amount, is the amount reasonable?

I will apply PTA to the 6 million dollar collective pieces: Purpose to give the hospital an ambiance. Time NA. Amount seems high for governmental organization.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Oct 13 at 2015 6:04 PM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:04:41 -0400

Our local hospital has gotten most all of it's grounds improvements from Scout Eagle Projects. would have saved that hospital that fortune, but I supposed they wanted a big splash.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 6:07 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:07:04 -0400

Hell no!! When we have care being provided correctly, then we can build a monument.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 6:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:17:03 -0400

It gives veterans something to look at while they are waiting!!!

Response by SPC Luis Mendez made Oct 13 at 2015 7:32 PM

SPC Luis Mendez — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:32:45 -0400

NOPE should never have happened! Drives the cost of operating the VA up in the very same way it does for ALL other hospitals. Unless someone donates something should NOT be setup. Conspicuous Spending at its best!

Response by LCpl Raul Leal made Oct 13 at 2015 7:39 PM

LCpl Raul Leal — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:39:07 -0400

Smells like pork. Should be spent on vets and their families!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 11:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:10:22 -0400

At first, I want to say it seems excessive, but then when I think of the WW2, Korea, and Vietnam vets who are in these hospitals for the remainder of their lives, I think anything that makes their remaining time more pleasant is worth the investment.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Oct 14 at 2015 12:43 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:43:29 -0400

The Fleecing of America

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Oct 14 at 2015 12:49 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:49:56 -0400

Dumb. That's 6.3 million that should go to veterans services.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 6:12 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:12:16 -0400

I just enjoy frivolous spending at the expense of the Veterans and Taxpayers.. It gives me the warm fuzzies. lol

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 14 at 2015 11:57 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:57:15 -0400

Maybe the art is needed to distract or amuse patients waiting in long lines for treatment...

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Oct 14 at 2015 12:11 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:11:26 -0400

If only 6.3 million for all of the hospitals across the country, I would say that's pretty good. Hospitals are a place no one really wants to go to....with the VA putting in art or fountains to make it more soothing and aesthetic, why not.

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Oct 14 at 2015 5:53 PM

PO2 Robert Cuminale — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:53:27 -0400

The feds as well as most cities require that a certain amount of the cost of a project must go to art.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 2:45 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:45:19 -0400

If it was agency budget then the answer is clearly that it should have gone to care of veterans. If, however, that money came from outside the agency like GSA then its not a VA issue at all.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Oct 15 at 2015 2:53 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:53:21 -0400

If soldiers are not being taken care of and not getting the proper treatment and benefits, I say no they shouldn't have spent that amount of money.

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Oct 15 at 2015 3:27 PM

PO2 Michael Henry — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:27:56 -0400

Hell no, there are vets like myself who have legit claims with permanent injuries or medical issues that were wrongfully denied and deserve to be compensated first and foremost. I fell down a flight of stairs on a ship due to improper maintenance causing permanent nerve damage at the shoulder to 4 of 6 major nerves in located in both arms. I have a hard time doing much anything with my hands and have to adapt at home, work and school. I also have hypothyroidism along with my sister, we went through different VAs (her in San Antonio and me in Phoenix...) Same symptoms, both had confirming tests while in, she was diagnosed while mine was swept into my medical file at the hospital but withheld from my service medical file and personal knowledge. I got the records, a VA doctor to confirm and made notes, my civilian to confirm and wrote a statement. She got 100%, I was denied without being seen. But they sure have money to throw away on art.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Oct 15 at 2015 3:31 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:31:46 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I can understand the need for calming items like fountains at the VA. I don't think that all of the items listed should have been funded, but I do think that having a peaceful area where a patient can go to just be is important. The issue is finding a balance between the healing value of tranquility and the cost of installing it.

Response by SSG Van Henson made Oct 17 at 2015 5:15 AM

SSG Van Henson — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 05:15:24 -0400

My wife keeps threatening to take one of the water bubbly colored light changing things from the VA health clinic and put it in our living room. ;)

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 17 at 2015 10:17 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:17:13 -0400

Don't get me started sir. I get it, grounds need beatification and atmosphere need to be welcoming but at what expense? I'd rather be treated in tent if it meant getting the right and adequate treatment as opposed to getting substandard treatment due to financial shortfalls at a beautiful facility. I mean if money is being used to put in a fountain and statues instead of allowing me to receive the right medications or tests which would help me get better faster then the problem is bigger then we imagined!

Response by SSgt Dale W. made Oct 17 at 2015 3:09 PM

SSgt Dale W. — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:09:30 -0400

I have been at a few hospitals that have had fountains & sculptures in various places. I found myself drawn to them as a place to de-stress, pray and contemplate.
As to the spending of budget dollars, the VA has little discretion once Congress appropriates the funds. Funds specified for upgrade/maintenance of buildings for example, cannot legally be used for other purposes. It's no different than trying to use funds appropriated for aircraft depot maintenance for weapons purchases. Yes, I'm fully aware the agency submits its budget request, but Congress can and often does change those numbers.

"Rep. Jeff Miller (R-Fla.), chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee, called the rock sculpture “wanton and abusive spending practices” by the agency."
The statement above is nothing more than Rep. Miller making political hay and I find it disingenuous and completely misleading. Mr. Miller, you may want to speak with your colleagues on the House Ways and Means Committee about those wanton and abusive spending practices.

Response by SSG John Mitchell made Oct 18 at 2015 3:08 AM

SSG John Mitchell — Sun, 18 Oct 2015 03:08:20 -0400

Yet they were $2.6 BILLION short this year. Had to get it from somewhere to cover the Month of September. Oh yea, they got it from the VETs on Disability and the Doctors to treat them.
I spent 4 YEARS trying to get reevaluated as my Surgeon annotated in my Medical Records. My fusion has repercussions all through my spine that my Doc. won't treat because it's not where my Injury is. I have a TBI that causes Headaches that they only had to look at a scan to decide that they can DROP that from my Disability Rating with-in 6 Months? I initially didn't want to see the Neuro. Surgeon because it was something I had been dealing with since it happened in '07. Come to find out, the meds my Doc had me on were for my Headaches. She just had the script to low. The Neuro. PA. upped my dosage and they take the edge off a little better but the cause can't be found out until I can actually see the Surgeon which was supposed to be THIS Month. Apparently there's only ONE at practicing at The Robly Rex Center on alternating months. I have yet to receive notification to contact them for an appointment. I have called them on my own and have yet to even get an extension to Neuro. We signed a Contract in good faith when we joined. Most, if not ALL of us have fulfilled that Contract yet the VA can't or won't full fill their's.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 18 at 2015 6:19 AM

SPC David S. — Sun, 18 Oct 2015 06:19:46 -0400

Its in Morse code alright _... .._ ._.. ._.. ... .... .. _

Response by PFC William Lomonte made Oct 19 at 2015 8:50 AM

PFC William Lomonte — Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:50:43 -0400

I have been trying to get a pacemaker replaced at the VA in Colorado Springs for the last 6 months scheduling has been a real problem everything has to be done in Denver the new Colorado Springs veterans outpatient its a real joke they don't even having an emergency room where veteran can get emergency care or even care for a cold he's told that he has to wait for an appointment all that money should have went into investing in more doctors and care

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2015 9:03 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:03:45 -0400

I'm sure they have the same problem as the services where "if we don't spend it we will get less next year", so they havee to find a way to waste it!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 19 at 2015 11:43 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:43:42 -0400

VA Stonehenge.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Oct 19 at 2015 4:35 PM

Sgt Daniel V. — Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:35:00 -0400

WHAT?!?!?! you are telling me fountains don't cure diseases or help in any way what so ever? (sarcasm)

Response by SGT James Carlson made Oct 29 at 2015 12:34 PM

SGT James Carlson — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:34:40 -0400

No. That money could be better spent on the veterans that need help .

Response by TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA made Nov 15 at 2015 2:17 AM

TSgt John Temblador, PI, CIPA — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 02:17:39 -0500

https://youtu.be/1QK4bblyfsc

$9,000,000,000,000 MISSING From The Federal Reserve SHOCKING FOOTAGE

Rep. Alan Grayson questions the FED inspector General where $9 TRillion dollars went... and Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman hasn't a clue...Dunno whether...