Two-star fired for 'treason' rant against A-10 supporters - what do you guys think?

2015-04-10T13:10:11-04:00

I think the punishment will essentially end his career. LOR as a two-star will mean no promotion and he'll likely be "asked" to retire by Gen Welsh. Without having three years as a two star, that'll also mean he'll retire as a one star.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/04/10/fired-for-treason-comments/25569181/

Two-star fired for 'treason' rant against A-10 supporters

Maj. Gen. James Post has been fired as vice commander of Air Combat Command for his comments in January.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-04-10T13:21:40-04:00

The LOR will effectively do it. The problem is that people get out of touch w/ the needs of the force & listen only to what the lobbyists are pushing. There are other ways to get your beloved F35 in service WITHOUT sacrificing the CAS dominator.

If you are so thin-skinned that your retaliation is threats instead of moving on, then good-riddance!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 1:23 PM

2015-04-10T13:23:45-04:00

There seems to be a perception amongst those of us who are/were enlisted that officers, especially those at O-6 or higher, are frequently given less harsh punishment simply because of rank. This is wrong.

If he didn't want his personnel to publicly speak out against the F-35 program, he could have just ordered it and that's all. He took it to another level when he showed his lack of professionalism by demeaning those who disagreed with him. Anyone in a position like his should know better.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-04-10T13:32:33-04:00

I think the punishment he received was adequate and I think he responded properly to it. We shall see what comes of this. Personally, I love the A-10 and do not want to see it go.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Apr 10 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-04-10T13:51:09-04:00

While much of this can be categorized as a "miscommunication", a 2 star should have a solid foundation on speaking clearly. The use of the word Treason could have the effect of "forbidding someone from speaking to their elected officials". He is being held accountable. While it may end his career, I doubt that a 1 star retirement is pitiful.....I will be retiring as a Major and am happy...I know many Mid/Senior NCOs that have retired and I bet they all say it is an ok retirement... 1 star must be pretty good!

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Apr 10 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-04-10T13:53:01-04:00

I was in the room when he said it, so please let me provide some context for those who have not grown up in the fighter pilot community. (Full disclosure: I am a retired Tanker pilot and NOT a "patch wearer" graduate of the USAF Weapons School)
Aircrew members in the Air Force have a culture and an ethos. Much of it is based on the mistakes we make in the air, and the public humiliation we use as a method to train those mistakes out. This is called "mission debrief". It is an open forum where rank means nothing and combat effectiveness means everything, and a 2Lt is EXPECTED to call out a mission mistake made by an O-6. So, we grow up doing this amongst ourselves, and when the debrief is over, it's over. Ranks are back on and we don't mention the mission mistakes in public. The system works.
At WEPTAC in January, the room was full of "patchwearers" (maybe 90% of the audience). These guys have been through hundreds if not thousands of mission debriefs. The doors were closed. Maj Gen Post said what he said. I was taking notes, and still have them.
In that room, on that day, I believe the general was talking to his fighter pilots, and asking them to present a common Air Force perspective on the A-10. I took the treason comment as a joke. He was smiling and being flippant, so I thought nothing of it until I saw it in the paper. I believe nearly everyone in that room had the same reaction as me, but THAT's where the problem is. If only ONE person took it as a threat, that was too many.
I don't know General Post personally. I only got the sense he spoke openly and didn't have a tight brain-to-mouth filter. So I liked that in him. Patton was definitely worse, and he would not survive a minute in today's media-driven world.
He made a mistake too big for a General to make, or to survive. In this case, I think it's a shame, but I don't disagree with the result.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 3:28 PM

2015-04-10T15:28:50-04:00

I see a lot of ego with the various Secretaries who will take any opportunity to ruin the life of dissent. Essentially rendering Generals inert while policymakers with no experience and a general derision of the services to do their harm. It does matter because as the Soviets (never left), ChiComms, India and Iran ramp up.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 10 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-04-10T15:33:53-04:00

Good riddance. How many service members got put on blast and had their careers ruined by this General's overly dramatic position? Long live the A-10. Living next t the A-10's playground is the best perk to living in Tucson.

Response by 1SG Joe Messier made Apr 10 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-04-10T15:57:12-04:00

Seems very odd that someone with that many years of service and such a large scope of responsibility would rant in front of 300 Airman about such a hot topic, he knows better. It's a simple reminder that nobody is above the law and nobody is perfect.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Apr 10 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-04-10T16:30:34-04:00

Here is what I see. I don't know the context of what happened. Col Joseph Lenertz gave us a nice overall view but still, this is a "had to have been there thing."

Problem is, and it has been pointed out by other members, his words were taken as a Threat, but also as a confirmation of taking sides in a political debate. (why keep the A-10). I have worked around some officers and the O-6's and up, and even O-5's, all start to have to work on their political side of there job. Especially Wing Commanders, as they are the figure head of the Air base to the community at large. These men and women are constantly in the public light and are mentored and taught how to be professional and dance that political dance the military does.

This General failed at the dance. Whether he meant to step on his partners toes or not, it doesn't matter. His military career is done. As for his Civilian Career, I doubt he would even take a mark. In fact there are probably companies right now trying to recruit him because they know he is done in the military.

I always wondered about punishment to higher ups. I see it as a double edged sword. They do get off easier on bigger things. Being forced to retire or paperwork for something a E-3 would get thrown out of the service for. But also, if they make one mistake and it can be very minor, their AF career is done right then and there. No jury needed. You know after he made that comment and congress found out, He was done. didn't take a LOR from his superior, he was done the moment that story made it to a paper.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 1:25 AM

2015-04-11T01:25:03-04:00

They kicked Lt. General Bullet-head to the curb! on behalf of all Warthog fans around the world: Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Apr 11 at 2015 9:20 PM

2015-04-11T21:20:33-04:00

Sounds like an appropriate punishment to me. Treason is a big word. Speaking to our bosses (Congress) in good faith could possibly be inappropriate in some circumstances, but it is certainly not treason.

Response by SrA Joshua Hagler made Apr 13 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-04-13T23:44:17-04:00

Part of me would like to see him demoted and jailed, but that is one part bitterness of what the air force did to me and second part as an A-10 guy. However he is just part of the culture of the air force right now. So I hope the message is sent and heard.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-04-28T15:44:21-04:00

Col Joseph Lenertz was there and provided the full story and I'd have to agree. I disagree an LOR is a fitting punishment because of his 'choice' of words. It's obvious he was in a room amongst his peers and yes, someone did get offended but that life. If we all had our words dissected during every brief than many of us would be put on trial for the things we said. He was put into that position at ACC/HQ where I was once stationed because he deserved to be there, because of the leadership he brought with him. His words alone would scrap the A-10. Heck even the President couldn't scrap the A-10 all by himself; it's unfortunate and I wish him the best.

Response by TSgt John Goodson made Apr 30 at 2015 7:43 AM

2015-04-30T07:43:50-04:00

He gave his opinion... For giving his opinion his career is over. No threats, no orders broken, no real violation of theUCMJ.... Just an opinion. And everybody is cool with this? With skin this thin within the AF Officer corps, the AF will be the panzie fightless cowardly branch of the world in no time (if it isn't already here). So much for "I will never leave an Airman behind". For the record, Gen Post was wrong.... Long live the A-10! But don't end his career over it. There are far too many REAL lapses in judgements being made. (Like ending the A10 program and reducing the force to lowest in history to buy a plane that doesn't fly)

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 12 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-07-12T11:55:45-04:00

A two star should know better than to run his mouth. You have a responsibility and a duty to support the command and it's policies despite your personal opinion.

Good call.