There is a big investigation into USMC DIs hazing/abusing recruits. Why might these cases be happening, and can they be stopped?

PV2 J M — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:23:43 -0400

Response by PV2 J M made Oct 31 at 2017 9:25 AM

PV2 J M — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:25:38 -0400

I mean what are these Drill Instructors being taught before they are handed there batch of recruits. and when the recruits meet there drill instructors, they are told several times in the DIs speech that they will "never be verbablly or physically abused by any marine or recruit"

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Oct 31 at 2017 9:29 AM

SSgt Holden M. — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:29:33 -0400

Reminds me a lot of when there was a bad bunch of sexual assault/sexual misconduct in the Air Force Basic Training a few years ago. Just like the saying a bad apple spoils the bunch. You get a couple isolated issues which shouldn't ever happen to begin with but then the media and social media gets a hold of it and it blows up and makes it look like every single person in the position is doing what these bad few are doing.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 31 at 2017 9:46 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:46:55 -0400

" why might these cases be happening, and can they be stopped?"
Humans ...individual, Humans with individual upbringings. The only way to rid any group of unwanted traits completely is to rid the unit of humans.

Response by PO3 Grant Skiles made Oct 31 at 2017 10:01 AM

PO3 Grant Skiles — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:01:32 -0400

DI have been working recruits hard since the Marines were created. Problem today is society. The recruits are allowed to have a voice in every branch of the military. The military is following society. This is going to become its downfall. Recruits are at Boot Camp to learn how too take orders and keep their mouth shut. They are in many cases being told what to do and how it is going to be done the Marine way and this little boys do not like being told what to do. This is because they have been pampered by the law, parents and media. Every recruit that tries to lodge a complaint should be shown the front gate and told to find their own way home. This will be the only way to stop this. Yes there are and alls has been some DI's that go overboard. They are usually taken care of very quickly and quietly sent else where on a new assignment. I hope the the Marines go back to the old way and return to making men out of boys. We need to remember these men are usually the first ones sent into a fight.

Response by GySgt David Lemanske made Oct 31 at 2017 10:05 AM

GySgt David Lemanske — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:05:41 -0400

There will always be complaints against DI's by privy of their very job. If that is your concern are your really wanting to earn the title, the Marines are not for everybody. I was punched by a DI but I got the point. If you cannot handle stress mental and physical the Marine Corps would not be for you.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 31 at 2017 10:15 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:15:34 -0400

Look son 1. There are always bad apples in every group in the world. 2. Your definition as a High school snowflake (no insult) of verbal abuse compared to a hardened Marine will be 1000k apart. Define hazing the same way. Physical abuse should be different but again what means, extreme, etc. DI's are to break you down from a namby-pamby snowflake civilian and rebuild you into a functioning Marine that can live and survive on the battlefield. If screaming that you are a maggot in your face, or dropping you for pushups every time you screw up is going to maim you for life; then what will you do when yo are trying to hold your best friend's guts back in place while under fire? 3. Life is hard, life in the Military is much harder because it can be life or death in a second. If you are serious about serving , you learn to take the good with the bad and solider on.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 11:26 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:26:03 -0400

There is one job that a DI has - turning a civilian into a Soldier/ Sailor/ Aiman/ Marine.
That is it.
He is not your friend.
He is not a mean-spirited bully.
He is not, in the strictest sense, a teacher as you know them.
He will show you the fundamentals of marksmanship and soldiering.
More importantly, he will pound it into your mush that you will follow orders immediately, because his, yours, or your buddy's life may rest on your ability to execute flawlessly and with alacrity those orders.
If that is not for you, then look for work in the Peace Corps.

I will allow that there are cases where a DI gets abusive. Other times when they can't keep their zipper up. In cases such as these, the military comes down very hard on them.
Discipline is for everyone in the profession of arms, not just the recruits.
We are taught it on our first day, and live it until our last day in the service.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 11:32 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:32:43 -0400

I'm sure there's a DS or DI somewhere that messed up somehow, but the majority of them are there to strip the Civilian from you. The day you put your collar device on, the EGA you'll be a Marine from then on. You will never be a Civilian again if you do this and succeed. I say IF, I watched people drop in Basic. Usually it was their attitude, their failure to conform to the Army. Sometimes, sadly it was their body. Their body couldn't handle the stress, even if their heart and mind was in it.

Basic/Boot it's as hard as you make it on yourself. The thing is, can you ruck up and march through?

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made Oct 31 at 2017 11:36 AM

MSgt Gerald Orvis — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:36:52 -0400

Having been both a recruit (1967) and a DI (1977-79), I can tell you that these cases will never go away. When I was a recruit, Marine Corps recruit training was very much a "hands-on" experience and nobody got in trouble for it unless they 1) left a scar on a recruit's body or 2) sent a recruit to the hospital. But that was reflective of that period of time - physical discipline was a reality for many kids in those days (it was for me and my friends), so we didn't think anything of it in boot camp or in the Marine Corps afterward. The psychological stresss that was laid on us in boot camp was much worse than any physical abuse we suffered, and when I got to Vietnam (as a grunt), I thanked God that my DI's had been so rough on me, because the stress of combat was much worse and I was able to stand up to it. When I became a DI, it was just after the McClure case at San Diego (where a recruit had been killed in pugil stick training and a DI got a general court-marialed for abuse, various officers in the chain-of-command were relieved, and so forth). Because of the Marine Corps' reputation, the case was picked up and sensationalized by the national press (sort of like the Ribbon Creek incident aftermath in 1956) and "DI abuse" became a national hue-and-cry. The recruit training SOP doubled in size overnight, and suddenly there were all kinds of restrictions laid upon DIs, who were nevertheless expected to turn out the same finished product. There were lots of DIs then who were brought up under the old system that just couldn't get past it and were disciplined, essentially ruining their careers. A lot of DIs just gave up on turning out the best Marines they could and just worried about protecting their careers and surviving DI duty. Although I believe the number of recruit injuries/deaths in the other services are greater than in the Marine Corps, nothing attracts a media feeding frenzy like news that a Marine recruit has been abused, injured or died. And then there is the "mommy factor," wherein her darling boy goes to boot camp and writes home about all the "colorful" things his DI is doing to him, true or not (we once had a private write to his mommy and tell her that we'd locked him in a wall locker and lit a fire under it), and she (being horrified) immediately calls her congressman to initiate an investigation. It happens all the time, and the DI is assigned other duties until the investigation is complete. Most of the time it results in no action, a few times it results in disciplinary action (and career-ending relief from duties) for the DI, but it's all fodder for the media. Marine Corps recruit training today is considerably different than it was in my day, but although the DIs are still operating under a microscope and with one arm tied behind them (and there are certainly a few bad apples), they still turn out outstanding Marines that have esprit de corps, succeed in battle and make us proud.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 12:04 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:04:28 -0400

Jordan, first off, it's ok to have some worries and stress about joining. It's normal. However, don't let them rent space in your head. I am shipping in a few weeks to boot camp, so I am working on that ideal as well. The important thing to remember is the instances/accusations of abuse dwarf when you compare the amount of trainees pumped through the system. Worrying about such things will only set you back. Do what's expected, push your team, and ride it out. It's all about making you a reliable, strong Marine.

Response by Col Jim Harmon made Oct 31 at 2017 12:45 PM

Col Jim Harmon — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:45:05 -0400

The fear and reservation you are feeling is natural and it is felt by every recruit who goes to Boot Camp. The Drill Instructors you referenced exceeded their authority and have been punished. Likewise, many of the SNCOs and Officers in their Chain of Command have been punished.
The Marine Corps is not in the business of abusing recruits. We are in the business of winning wars. That means we have to make Marines. The only way to make Marines is through tough rigorous training, stress, and testing to the point of failure. If you don’t know where your failure point is, then you will never know how much more you can accomplish.

Not everyone is cut out to be a Marine. Marine Corps Boot Camp is harder than any other service. You will enter Boot Camp as an individual, a civilian who has been formed and molded by 18 years of social norms and polite societal pleasantries. That will all be stripped away, and you will be rebuilt into a stronger, more disciplined, and focused version of yourself. You will leave Boot Camp as a finely crafted piece of precision military hardware. You will have earned your title as Marine, and you will be one of the most lethal things on the battlefield. The day they put the “Eagle, Globe and Anchor” in your hand and call you Marine for the first time, will stay with you until the day you die.

So, you must now decide if you are just looking for reasons not to go, or if you are serious about accepting the challenge and trying to earn the title Marine. Make no mistake, it WILL be tough. It is meant to be tough. No one will give it to you. No one will cut you one inch of slack. You will earn every single bit of it by yourself. If you succeed, it will be the most valuable, the most treasured thing, you earn for the rest of your life. You will have changed forever.

The question is, are your up to the challenge?

Response by PV2 J M made Oct 31 at 2017 1:04 PM

PV2 J M — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:04:51 -0400

I understand that bootcamp in the USMC is hard. i agree with it all. every last bit of it. the way bootcamp is is the way it should stay. i am talking about the few instances where recruits have been forced in to commercial dryers and then turned on, or made to do excerices in bleech and then have skind burns, THOSE instances. or racial/religious slurs. that kind of stuff is what i am talking about.

Response by Cpl Jeremiah Wills made Oct 31 at 2017 1:06 PM

Cpl Jeremiah Wills — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:06:35 -0400

Parents need to stop raising pussies

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 1:10 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:10:45 -0400

1st off abuse should never happen. Hazing thou, Ppl grow the fuck up & have thick skin. It's the military any soldier who had been in over 10 years will tell you hazing was just part of the jokes, fun, introduction into the military. Your a soldier. Well not the air force. They are panzies. But army, navy, marines. You are warriors. Suck it up deal with it. Develop that thick skin to brush off the bs & move on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 1:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:20:12 -0400

Maybe the Military isn't for you. Yes, you will be hazed, yelled at and punished for absolutely no reason, called names by a seemingly unreasonable DS/DI. All of that is part of becoming a warfighter, if you can't deal with being broken Dow to be built back up, the Military isn't for you.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Oct 31 at 2017 1:46 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:46:05 -0400

Literally everything that a Drill Sergeant, or in the case of the USMC Drill Instructor, does has a purpose. They yell and demean you the second you reach them for a point. The point being that you're not good enough yet. Their job is to break down who you are. They take the parts of you that are useful for soldiering and build it up. It's almost never pleasant in the moment, but you will notice the change when you go home. Trust me, looking back at basic I had a lot of fun. You will make friends with people you would never have thought twice about and when you reach your unit you will find a family that will always be there for you. Boot and the "mean DIs" are just the price you'll have to pay for the privilege. While you're in you will experience some of the best and worst days of your life. I think it's all worth it, but you have to ask yourself if you feel that way.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Oct 31 at 2017 1:46 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:46:59 -0400

I actually was kind of entertained by drill instructors and what I saw. They gave You challenges to live up to to prepare You for what You needed to do in the Military service and be able to handle situations most civilians will never have to deal with. I managed to keep a straight face with some of the classic phrases they used. I knew once basic training was over things would change, I never had any doubt I could make it. I also had some training as a Cadet prior to service including time at a Military Academy prior to entering basic which didn't hurt any. I kept My mouth shut and did everything I was told and had no problem. The Drill instructors never did anything that was actually abusive and even if You didn't enjoy the moment each time it was worth it. I can still remember His endearing address to us "You GD Donkey Dicks !"

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 5:59 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 17:59:22 -0400

PV2 J M I went through Boot Camp in 1968 when screaming and hitting recruits was par for the course. Can all instances be stopped? Probably not, but what do you define as abuse may be different than my definition. You will face many challenges in life and Boot Camp is what you make of it. Listen closely, observe, stay squared away, and you will be fine. What I went through in Boot Camp and AIT was no where near as tough as what I endured in Vietnam.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Oct 31 at 2017 9:21 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:21:28 -0400

As someone said earlier Jordan, Recruit Training is like going from high school JV to the NFL!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2017 12:50 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 00:50:34 -0400

PV2 J M Think beyond high school and Boot Camp. If you have never heard a racial slur or seen bullies, you will eventually. You will see many things in your life time. As a Marine you need to be tough physically, but the mental aspects are the most critical. You must make up your mind that no matter how tough it gets, you will not quit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sWW0nxi9bw

Response by SPC Susan Wolfrum made Nov 1 at 2017 7:23 AM

SPC Susan Wolfrum — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 07:23:45 -0400

I'd go back and do it again if they took people my age.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Nov 1 at 2017 11:49 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 11:49:36 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2019 8:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 20:01:48 -0500

It isn’t hazing if it is character development or team development, is it?