The use of the term "JOES"

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 22:58:20 -0500

In my opinion, the use of the term 'Joe(s)' is the MOST derogatory, disrespectful and demeaning way to refer to our junior enlisted. And most NCO's get their panties in a bunch when called 'Sergeant' when they are a SSG, SFC, MSG but think nothing of referring to our junior enlisted as 'Joe'.

What's the rest of RPers think?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 31 at 2015 11:02 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:02:50 -0500

SSG Marvin Mann, Just consider 'Joe/Joes' to be a temporary term of endearment. You should overcome it when you learn about the places on a totem pole. "Snuffy" is the most obnoxious term of reference I personally encountered.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 31 at 2015 11:08 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:08:50 -0500

This isn't Army unique. On the AF side you have folks lose thier minds when people call thier Airmen "troops" or E8's "Senior".

Response by SSgt Jay Dee made Jan 31 at 2015 11:10 PM

SSgt Jay Dee — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:10:02 -0500

Lol this is just silly...!? First of all, I dare any younger Marine to call a senior Marine "Sergeant" when they're not a sergeant. Anyway, I understand it's a little different elsewhere. But as far as the "Joe" thing...? I guess that's similar to calling a young Marine a "boot". Marines take that shit differently though. Like a term of endearment. Just seems like you or someone you know is taking this a little too far. But to answer your question on the difference... An E7 or higher; I'd say they earned the respect of their junior guys to call them by their earned ranks...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:17:44 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Actually, I disagree completely. The only NCOs I ever saw get butthurt over being called SGT when he was a SSG or higher were the NCOs from the Marines. Army NCOs typically don't care until they make 1SG. Then the proper title is "First Sergeant" (or "Sergeant Major" if they get above that rank).

Joe is not derogatory. There are much more derogatory names I've called Soldiers when they were screwing off/up.

The term "Joe" comes from the Original WWII designation of G.I. Joe - which stood for "Government Issue Joe". Joe was a generic term used to identify any Soldier, regardless of rank. It was not used by the Marine, or the Navy - however, the Navy did use the term "Joe" for "coffee". I'm not entirely sure of the history of that, but I had heard it originated onboard ships.

It has never been "derogatory" - just like "private" or "specialist" are not derogatory - however, I can say both of those in a way that obviously shows contempt. If someone is using the term "Joe", "Private", or "Specialist" in a derogatory measure, it is because more than likely, that Soldier has made an obvious bone headed mistake.

So, derogatory? Nope. And if you really are getting your feelings hurt over the use of a word, any word, whether or not it is derogatory, I'd say you have bigger issues and either need to grow up and get a sense of humor, or you need to get out now.

Words do not hurt. Bullets do. I know.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:40 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:40:04 -0500

I think it is all much ado about nothing. I personally prefer the term "Bubbas". I mean no offense by it, in fact I use it as a term of endearment. My two-year old has the same nickname.
I am a big believer in showing respect. When we use a nickname for our Soldiers, how you use it will let them know if you are talking down to them or not.
I beat the heck out of "rocks", "high-speed", or some of the more colorful ones I heard when I was young troop.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 12:13 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 00:13:45 -0500

Back in BASIC I was taught that the proper form of address for SGT through MSG was Sergeant, and that it only differentiated when you had a 1SG. SGM and CSM are both addressed as Sergeant Major. Of course, now that I outrank all of them it's a bit easier to get away with it.

The Marines are a bit different, as their customs and courtesies specify that you use the full rank when referring to an NCO. As such I'm willing to go the extra mile to make them feel more comfortable. Naval and Air Force ranks are a bit more confusing, but if you pay attention you can figure it out for the person you're dealing with.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Feb 1 at 2015 12:38 AM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 00:38:08 -0500

I didn't use Joe or Joe's. I was more comfortable with soldier or soldiers four enlisted soldiers. It's what I expected from them so why not constantly plant the seed? It worked well too!