The use of "Sergeant" as a derogatory term.

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:51:07 -0500

There seems to be a growing trend in the Army of referring to good NCO's as "NCO's", and to poor ones as "Sergeant. For example, "oh he's not an NCO, he's just a Sergeant".

I absolutely HATE this new trend. The rank/title of Sergeant is a badge of honor, a title reserved for hundreds of years for those entrusted with the lives of our countries young men and women, training them, and making Soldiers out of them.

That we now use it as a derogatory term is shameful. To be called Sergeant is an honor. It is something to aspire to. To earn the right to be called Sergeant is a goal that all Soldiers should strive for.

If you want to call out a dirtbag, that's fine, feel free to call them a turd, a zebra, a dirt bag, a shammer, whatever you'd like. But to use Sergeant as a derogatory term is disgusting, and show's a lack of education concerning our military and our Corps' history.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Feb 18 at 2014 10:12 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:12:55 -0500

I am not defending this practice because this is the first time I have heard of it, but what does it say about the strength and quality of the people "making rank" and not living up to their title. I grew up around the military, my father retired as a Chief in the Navy. I grew up admiring him, and his friends most were NCOs. Since joining the Army I have found it difficult to admire or want to be a NCO. There are good NCOs in the Army, but I have found that I run into many more bad ones. I do not know where the disconnect is once people reach E-5 but for some reason myself and other juniors see these people and hang our heads in shame. The Corp's history might be strong, but that history is being tainted more and more with weaker, and less than quality NCOs both junior and senior.

If you are going to dislike my status please provide a reason. This is solely my opinion based on observation, and conversing with peers.

Response by 1SG Shane Hansen made Feb 18 at 2014 10:37 AM

1SG Shane Hansen — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:37:44 -0500

I agree, to be called a SGT is an honor.  A SGT is an NCO and the term should be used interchangeably.    <div>Not so long ago it was, as others have said, we called them "zebras" or just E-5's.  Hopefully this thread can be the start of some awareness for some.</div><div>Also I would like to think that the soldier recommended for promotion to SGT had potential at one time that was recognized by their NCO support channel and CoC.  They need to dig down and tap that potential again and be proud of the rank that they wear.</div>

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 11:03 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:03:01 -0500

I've heard this before from an instructor in AIT who thought he was the second coming. In his book he was the only NCO in the Army.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 12:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:20:37 -0500

As noted by someone else…in 17 years, I've never heard someone using "Sergeant" in a derogatory manner. I have heard "He's not an NCO/Sergeant…he's an E-5".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 2:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:36:12 -0500

I remember when I first came into the army I wanted nothing but to become a NCO. I have both good and bad leaders over me through the years. Those times when I was around poor leaders only strengthened my determination to become a NCO because I wanted to be better than those poor NCOs. So to whoever would use "Sergeant" as a derogatory term I would challenge them to become quality NCOs and lead from the front rather than put the NCO corps down

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 2:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:41:32 -0500

I have not heard Sergeant used in this context ... nor should it be! The responsibility of a Sergeant is vitally important. If that NCO does not understand that responsibility then counseling is required until he gets on track or gets out.

If you're hearing it used in this context, the problem may not be with the person saying it derogatorily but with the Sergeant being spoken about. Rather than take offense, take the person aside and straighten them out.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Feb 18 at 2014 4:04 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:04:19 -0500

"I absolutely HATE this new trend".<br>I concur, except that it's not a new trend. I first heard it about 12 years ago.<br>

Response by SSG Shawn Vann made Feb 18 at 2014 6:07 PM

SSG Shawn Vann — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:07:59 -0500

I've been in the army for a little over 21 years. This isn't a new reference. I've heard it since my first duty station in 1993.

The reference of "he/she is not an NCO, He/She is a Sergeant". Makes reference to the fact that when they pinned on the stripes, they have not stepped up and acted like an NCO should. Therefore they are just a Sergeant. Similar to what is said in the movie series band of brothers. "Salute the rank not the person". The soldiers have no choice but to respect the rank of Sergeant, but do not have to respect the person wearing it if they haven't earned it.

I recently came back to a line unit from White House Communications, and in the time I've been here, I have noticed a lot of Sergeants, but not many NCOs. Allow me to give an example. The jr. Enlisted barracks is a complete and total wreck. Floors hadn't been maintained, kitchen area covered with a half inch of grease, 80% of the lights in common areas either had blown light bulbs or fixture didn't work at all, soldiers were losing their room keys and calling DPW on their own and having locks replaced with no accountability. This all boils down to their first line supervisors weren't checking on their health and welfare. It has taken myself along with 3 other SSGs over a month and a half to bring the barracks back to standard. That should show you there are soldiers that are assuming the rank of SGT, but not taking the responsibility of an NCO.

You shouldn't see it as degrading to the rank, because soldiers long before you and I even thought about military service earned the respect for the title. It should be thought in a way as in addition to the respect for the rank, they haven't earned their individual respect as an NCO, and living the standard. They want the pay and respect but not the responsibilities that go with it.

I'm not a very well spoken person but I hope this helps to clarify.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 7:53 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:53:41 -0500

To use the term "Sergeant" in a derogatory manner is disrespectful to ALL NCO's. The rank and accompanying title Sergeant are earned through performance and perseverance. All Sergeants should stand together as a Corps and stop this trend by correcting any and all that they hear using it in a negative way.

The rank is earned but so is the respect. Those that put on the rank receive the positional respect of being a Sergeant just by wearing the stripe. They also need to strive to "earn the respect" of their subordinates by fulfilling the roles and responsibilities that come with the rank.

The other NCO's of the unit should be mentoring the individuals that are being a 'zebra' so that he can become that Sergeant that the troops will want to follow.

Response by LTC David Haines made Feb 18 at 2014 8:50 PM

LTC David Haines — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:50:48 -0500

I always used sergeant as a sign of respect for the rank earned.

Response by MAJ Samuel Weber made Feb 18 at 2014 9:42 PM

MAJ Samuel Weber — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:42:04 -0500

That's new? I've never heard this before. I am used to people correcting Soldier who say "Are you an E-6 or a Staff Sergeant?" Using an NCOs pay grade as thier Rank is incorrect. E-whatever is just a pay grade, whereas a Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, etc are NCOs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2014 9:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:44:12 -0500

I've never hears of this, I do hear different tone of voice on certain occasions.

If someone messes up, people use that long drawn out Sergeant or Specialist and so forth.

If individuals are using the word Sergeant as a derogatory term, they need to be checked immediately.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 11:27 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:27:07 -0500

Sgt is a Sgt. And you should be proud of that designation. The term NCO v. Sgt. should be stopped.

Response by SPC Dan Goforth made Feb 20 at 2014 11:53 PM

SPC Dan Goforth — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:53:19 -0500

SSG Hasbun, I get where you're coming from.  Sergeant is a rank I have fought to prove myself worthy of for a long time now.  To demean that rank does irk me a little bit.  But, for Jr. Enlisted soldiers, there is very little leeway in making clear what we think of someone who wears the stripes, but doesn't carry the responsibility.  The majority of the NCO Corps are the finest examples of the greatest professionals our nation could offer.  However, there is that minority...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 12:56 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:56:27 -0500

I'm not sure this is "new" or a "trend", but it is definitely something to address on the spot when you hear it occur. I fully acknowledge their are some people out there that are wearing the rank but NOT fulfilling their obligations as NCOs (and some officers as well) but a true leader should engage that person and try to correct it. Maybe they just need some mentorship, maybe they truly are a bad apple, but YOU as Soldier and a leader are obligated to correct it.

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Feb 21 at 2014 1:29 AM

Jordan Gaudard — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 01:29:01 -0500

To re-hash what everyone has already said, when you refer to anyone as their pay grade them that means they are just collecting a paycheck and don't deserve the respect. You could do that to an E-1 and all the way up, I highly discourage against it even at the lowest level. The real question is, where can they assist, or you assist when you do it. I may be a SSG, but that doesn't mean there isn't a SPC in the armed forces than knows more about my job than I do, or a Pvt that knows more about convoys, room clearing, or even managing Soldiers. If you think you are above this then you need to pay my unit a visit, we have a SPC with a Ph.d and plenty others with multitudes of experiences that is just a small example. Being a Platoon Sergeant I found out that everyone has something they are good at, they are not good at everything. I just hope that I have a well balanced group that works well together and doesn't criticize each other about how well they do their "job"

Response by MSgt Timothy Bridgham made Feb 21 at 2014 8:39 AM

MSgt Timothy Bridgham — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:39:51 -0500

After reading this question and all of the responses. I ask this question. Did you correct the person that used the word "Sergeant" in a degrading manner? As an NCO or SNCO it is your job to correct this behavior. No Officer Ever should have to step out and correct a NCO for this offense. If you allow it, it will continue. Now maybe this is an Army issue, But in the 20 yrs I spent in the Air Force, I never heard anyone use the word "Sergeant" to demean them. You are an NCO or you are just a POS e5.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 9:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:39:53 -0500

Just some bit of info....check out AR 600-20 Army Command Policy, Chapter 1, Page 3

Share with your troopers!!!

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_20.pdf

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2014 10:56 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:56:41 -0500

I think I've only heard this in referring to E-5. Never anything higher. Usually it's a spiteful E-4 that was an equal to now a subordinate.

Response by CMSgt Scott Haskins made Feb 24 at 2014 3:37 PM

CMSgt Scott Haskins — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 15:37:15 -0500

Wonder who started this trend? NCO's or O's?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2014 5:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:22:15 -0500

The difference between an E-5 and a Sergeant is leadership and E-5 is just a paygrade.

The Sergeant is where the axe meets the grindstone and operates in an environment where fireworks fly danger close. I remember my NCOs as a Specialist coaching and mentoring, grooming me to take their place someday. I made Corporal, the most jr of NCOs and brought into the fold, but now held to higher standards and more was expected out of me. I can tell you the grindstone got very hot.

I've seen young Specialists make Sergeant really quick, SGT rank handed out like PEZ candy, if I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong. Where was the mentoring, coaching, the leadership? Leadership is not on some powerpoint slide, it's what we must do, it's what we're charged with as NCOs and officers included. Not only do we challenge, train & mentor future Soldiers but future leaders, we're training our replacements because we're going to go off to do better bigger things.

If you here a 'joe' calling a Sergeant an E-5, make that on-the-spot correction. If you put on that Sergeant rank, show you jr enlisted you've earned it, show them what right looks like, let them emulate you. When you're wrong, its ok to own up to it, then show them how to correct those mistakes, they'll have more respect for you.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 10 at 2014 1:12 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 13:12:51 -0400

Unless it was one of my Officers and I heard "Petty Officer Nagel" I knew I was in trouble and screwed. We focus more of your Rate, Your Job Specialty so I knew there was nothing wrong as along as you called me Chip, CTO1 or CT1.

Response by SSG Bret Hankes made Dec 13 at 2017 2:24 PM

SSG Bret Hankes — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:24:15 -0500

Well, it is called the NCO Creed, not the SGT's Creed! I saw plenty of SGTs in my 21+ years who I would never refer to as NCOs.