Suppose there were a reverse bootcamp, like a program to help you become more like a civilian. What would it include? Would you want to go?

SSG Eric Burleson — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 21:32:49 -0500

Response by PO3 Leroy Leftwich made Jan 1 at 2017 9:42 PM

PO3 Leroy Leftwich — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 21:42:31 -0500

No. I was raised military and didn't know it until I was in boot. While everyone around me was long haired and sloppy. I was spit shined and had my shit in one sock. The military stream lines thinking. If your on this sight, you already should understand that preparing for the job, is the job.

Response by LTC Greg Henning made Jan 1 at 2017 9:43 PM

LTC Greg Henning — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 21:43:59 -0500

Interesting concept. Attempting to deprogram all the military training over the period of many year is going to be hard. What classes might be offered might include sociology classes to better understand how to live among non military people. I personally would not attend

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jan 1 at 2017 9:55 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 21:55:57 -0500

The one thing I wish I was taught (and still have yet to learn) is how to not downplay my achievements, or to ask for the salary I feel I deserve. I feel my resume speaks for itself, but as far as salary negotiations go, I feel I am not as confident as I would like to be. Just being honest

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Jan 1 at 2017 10:00 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 22:00:39 -0500

Rally Point Is an example of what you are suggesting SSG.
Here, one needs to be careful of what they write and which words are chosen when calling someone out.
Tripping over wires here and learning from the experience will help hard chargers moving to the civilian puke world. Where almost everyone is quickly offended by name your topic.
One of the hardest things for me and still is a shocker, is lack of Honor. A cilivian is notorious for not doing what they agreed to do.
Any grunt reading this, stay in. Work on your education and move up in rank, or go OCS.
Now, if you folks will excuse me, I have to prepare for the next compassion and sensitiveity training I have to go to for telling someone to tape an Asprain to it and get back to work.
M. Morris RVT

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 1 at 2017 10:06 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 22:06:01 -0500

A very interesting proposal. Veterans returning from WWII had long waits for transportation and long sea voyages during which they could decompress among their brothers-in-arms from the rigors and horrors of war. A Vietnam Vet who became a standup comic described the plight we faced. Imagine, he said, one moment you up to your eyebrows in combat, fighting for your life when someone taps you on the shoulder and tells you it's time to get on a plane. Twenty-four hours later, you're standing alone in a concourse in the Atlanta airport. Your buddies are still fighting in the jungles. Then a civilian is in your face screaming "Murderer!" So, I murdered him. The punch line is a real shocker, but you get the idea. Maybe we don't need a "bootcamp" to readjust, just a long sea cruise with your comrades. Still, the bootcamp isn't a bad idea.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 1 at 2017 10:20 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 22:20:10 -0500

I feel I learned a lot better lessons that could be well used in life than many of My civilian counterparts did. We learned about teamwork, doing things because We knew they needed to be done, taking pride in Your work. organizational skills, communication skills, the list goes on. Seems that a lot of civilians could better stand to learn what the Military taught Me than the other way around. Even if You didn't remain in the Military as a career the lessons You learned can and do serve You quite well for the rest of Your life.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2017 10:34 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 22:34:44 -0500

Maybe something similar to the National Guard/Reserves. While they are in this, we'll call it Drill status. They take a few courses in finances, resume building, and some others subjects, offer counseling for the transitioning out phase if they so choose all while keeping it somewhat military as they adjust out of it moving toward Civilian life.

I'm NG myself, we have a lot of guys who enjoy Civilian life but couldn't break away from the military so they went Guard or Reserves so they could kind of do both. Those that I have talked with it's a mixture of loving it and hating it. So it works for some but not all. Some told me they thought it was great until their unit was up for deployment, especially if it was soon after joining the RC because then for a period of time they were Active again so it kind of undid the transition.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 1:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 01:12:34 -0500

I was just talking to my sister about this tonight as I dropped her off at the shelter she is staying in, who is a homeless vet. I am looking to start a manufacturing company and wanted to hire homeless vets. But, as I thought more about it what would this do in helping them? The thing most of the vets like my sister miss is the structure, unity and "family" feel that the military offered.

I have been looking into reclaiming closed down or unused government facilities or old bases to see about obtaining or being granted to restructure these abandoned areas and though it would be civilian, it could be worked like a small outpost base. Have several different areas where the parts are built, another for assembly, packaging, shipping, selling and so on. Possibly even go further, if allotted housing some of the homeless vets in some of the old housing barracks.

The problem I have seen with transitioning back out of the military is that we are raised to live in single house holds. However, our genetic make up says we are more tribal, or pack animals if you will. So going into the military you are trained to work and live as one. Everyone, and every job relying on the other to service and create a concrete foundation. So your natural instinct kicks in and like most we thrive. So when you get out and go back to try and live in the single house hold again in the chaos of civilian working class. Many vets end up freaking out and self medicating and or go to what ever vet doctor will give them what they want as to sleep there lives away. So they no longer feel that rejection from society.

This is just my observations of some of it.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 2 at 2017 3:18 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 03:18:43 -0500

I thimk an indoctrination designed to help a military member to understand more clearly how civilian hiring practices work and what normal day to day interactions with a chain of command in a civilian organization are like. For example the folks in the office who handle each department are going to have "their own" ways of doing things, not dictated by the boss or other regulations. You will be expected to get along with these other members of the organization and treat them with respect without rank. If you have a conflict due to that lack of the world understanding the inclination might be to consult your employer, this is a bad idea. Your employer trusts them to run their department without question.. Your employer will not understand that you may not grasp the mechanics of interaction in a civilian environment and retaliation by such individuals can simply get you fired out of hand to avoid conflict and waste of time by the supervisors or owners.
Life in civilian housing or neighborhoods is likewise not subject to uniform rules and conflicts are settled between individuals without recourse to a set of regulations such as one is accustomed to.
I would say these are the most basic issues a military person is going to encounter after leaving service. I think most other public life interactions require no indoctrination since they are normal in everyone's day to day.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jan 2 at 2017 7:19 AM

PO3 David Fries — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 07:19:57 -0500

I am fine not being like civilians, thank you very much.

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Jan 2 at 2017 8:56 AM

CPL Jay Freeman — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 08:56:21 -0500

Humm ice cream oh 15 to 20 min breaks every 2 hours regardless of task a laid back attitude like it doesn't matter if it gets done now or a few hours or days latter humm I think I left a few things out oh and how to dress to blind in how to sugar coat everything and put a bunch of sunshine up the ass of some dumb ass who messed up. I can think of more but if you don't get the point. Then it's a loss. We should not dumb up a good streamline we need to get them to streamline to maybe make better parents and mandate that you need some military service bang gap fixed

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jan 2 at 2017 11:20 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 11:20:36 -0500

Its a good idea to understand what is out there. Especially for folks who did 20+ years in the military and then have to swim in the civilian ocean. The private sector does not act nor think like the military. While military members bring of number of great skill sets to the private sector, many folks often get lost in trying to convert those skill sets to the private sector.

There is already training out there to help with the transition, but a "boot camp" idea with civilian instructors, would be beneficial to most.

Response by SPC Jillian O'Malley made Jan 2 at 2017 1:00 PM

SPC Jillian O'Malley — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 13:00:45 -0500

Something that would need to be included is how to speak in the civilian world. My spouse is still active duty. Around post I will hear leaders speak to each other like "and then we're fucking going to fucking do this, and after that we'll grab that one fucker and make him fucking do that, all the motherfuckers will be mad, and fucking hopefully we'll have fucking formation at fucking 1700 so we can fucking go fucking home." In a normal tone of voice. I hear conversations like this everywhere, in the gym, at the food court, at the library. Language like that doesn't get one very far in the civilian world.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 1:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 13:52:45 -0500

I, personally, am curious to know if there is a difference in the tone of answers between people who have basically been military their entire adult life and people who either joined late and/or had a significant break in service.

Edit to add: In fact, I almost think my question would be best served by those being split into three distinct categories: whole adult life, joined late, and break-in-service.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jan 3 at 2017 12:11 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 00:11:42 -0500

No, I'm pretty good at sitting in my underwear on my front porch already.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 3 at 2017 9:28 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:28:36 -0500

Oh hell no... I never want to feel that useless again.

It'd probably include some seminars on discussing feelings.

Response by SPC Dave Bartlett made Jan 5 at 2017 9:56 PM

SPC Dave Bartlett — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:56:54 -0500

I am 6 years out of the army and would still go! There would need to be a large focus on how to have no self respect and another on fending for yourself and not the people around you as well.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 14 at 2018 7:54 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 19:54:03 -0400

You mean SFL-TAP?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 8:54 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 20:54:12 -0400

A lot of donuts!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 14 at 2018 10:00 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 22:00:37 -0400

One action would be being late twice in a year and then fired. Another would be staying home for three days for being sick and having a small pay check.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 14 at 2018 11:06 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:06:56 -0400

Why would I want to do that?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 15 at 2018 6:40 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 06:40:51 -0400

In my senior years in the Army (too many to count) and my years as a Civilian (I have found that former service members made better employees as a general rule. Don’t get me wrong, I have worked with many persons who had not had the pleasure of serving and they are great employees. All in all, the best, in my opinion have served. Why change that? Thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Mar 15 at 2018 7:30 AM

SGT Aric Lier — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 07:30:38 -0400

Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar.
~Drew Carey

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 11:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:16:10 -0400

I would definitely attended the “Sleep to 0800 Reintegration Training” because I still wake up every f&$#@@n morning at 0500!!!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2018 10:38 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:38:59 -0400

Buzzwords. The civilian world LOVES buzzwords. And PowerPoint. If you know your way around PowerPoint and you can chain together lots of buzzwords (I mean LOTS of buzzwords - think high volume of fire), then we're talking about C-level positions (office suite, secretary, etc).