Suicide Standup week is coming up. Do you think it is an effective tool or just a check the block dictated from higher?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 10:45:25 -0500

The suicide rate amongst Soldiers and veterans has been high for the past 10 years. The Army has tried to address this issue with a plethora of programs, acronyms and power point presentations. Unfortunately we continue to fall short. What are your feelings in regards to what the Army has done, is doing and what can they do better? Why is this subject still taboo and why is it stigmatized? How can we change the culture?

My personal opinion is as follows: The Army is a microcosm of society. 9 Weeks of Basic Training will not and cannot alter a lifetime of bad living/life experiences. Suicide is a selfish act. Soldiers believe they are a part of a caste system. They believe they fall into the "warrior caste". This fact is perpetuated due to the fact that only.5% of the U.S. population serves. That however, does not negate our role in society; which is to "serve the people of the United States". At no time should the servant feel superior to the people they serve. If that is the case tyranny ensues. To prevent this the head of the military is a civilian. The President, The secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Army. Soldiers have such a skewed sense of entitlement. They expect society to embrace them, give them handouts, and support them when they transition out. While these are honorable acts of gratitude Soldiers need to understand that as volunteers the civilian populous owes them nothing.

The reason the unemployment rate is high amongst vets is because we have this belief that since we were a leader in the Army we have to come into a civilian job at management level. Would the military let a CEO of a fortune 500 company join the military as a general based solely off the fact that he’s led large organizations in the past. The answer is no; there are other factors to consider and he will have to work his way up just like everyone else.

I believe the military should emphasize expectation management. It is better to be surprised than disappointed. If you set your expectations about life in general and the military in particular at a reasonable level you will rarely be disappointed. Resilience is key. Soldiers need to know and understand that nothing is ever as bad as it seems, and that as long as you have life you have hope. We have contingency plans for everything we do in the military. Why don’t we have a contingency plan for life? We have to alter our Soldiers adrenaline fueled, you only live once(YOLO) train of thought. And get them to think long and hard about the future I believe things will change. Because once all of the money is blown, the booze is gone and the women/men don’t want to deal with them because of their erratic lifestyle what are they left with? They are left hopeless and desolate. At that point they hit rock bottom and do the unthinkable. The key is to prevent them from hitting rock bottom by emphasizing preparation for the future. If you invest in yourself, you value yourself and are less likely to hurt yourself. We all know the motto “Work hard, play hard.” We need to include with that “prepare hard, save hard.” Everything should be done in moderation.

Many of our Soldiers to include myself have experienced multiple deployments and have experienced/ witnessed tragic events during these deployments. We are trained to engage and destroy our enemies in close combat and at times pay the ultimate sacrifice in defense of this nation and its way of life. We have experienced events that our brains have to process and the end result is a reaction to the events that draw the ire of those who cannot relate. To combat this the military hires a bunch of Ph Ds and mental health experts. These people have no actual real world experience and try to relate Soldiers from studies and opinions in books. They then realize they aren't getting through to the Soldiers and burn out. The Army has rolled a million campaigns to help Soldiers, from hot-lines, to ACE cards to name a few. Why hasn't the Army created a contest seeking input from Soldiers on methods to help prevent suicide. If we took a bottom up approach instead of top down I think that our effectiveness on our Soldiers and veterans would increase exponentially. It comes down to resilience, understanding, support, intervention and eliminating the a culture that stigmatizes anyone reaching out for help. If Soldiers were flexible and adaptable mentally, prepare financially and emotionally I believe the suicide problem would diminish.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 1:19 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 13:19:57 -0500

SFC Flood,

I think we need to do these types of stand downs. If you effect one soldier to get help and save life the training is worth it.

V/R

1SG Haro

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 2:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 14:37:56 -0500

SFC Flood,
You hit many key points here. We teach Soldiers how to manage bills month to month. I don't know what is being done to train Soldiers to manage finances into the beyond. I know that ACAP offers budget classes but that is simply one block of instruction soon before transition. Being successful and resilient for a lifetime takes deeper mentorship. It is difficult to teach these things when the leader is in fact still trying to figure it out. Life doesn't get easier for everyone as multiple financial responsibility arise, family members age, children grow and thus do their needs, and an assortment of other life struggles. Suicide is selfish but when a person has decided to commit that act it is when they are beyond caring about anything but stopping the pain and worry that doesn't seem to end. The current resiliency training or MRT is a program that has limitations and is a lengthy program. I would be curious to hear if anyone has had a success story with the MRT program. It basically teaches the thought process of an already healthy and resilient mind. It can only be understood by an already healthy and resilient mind. That was my take on the training anyway.
As a person who has been in a dark place I can say it wasn't the MR program teachings that brought me back into the light. It was simply one more person to talk to. One more peer or leader who said it was ok to feel overwhelmed and that things would get better.
Since every person perceives the world differently and all have such different backgrounds and upbringing, it will be difficult to find one method to work for all and slow down this train.
If anyone else has input I would like to hear it. This has to be a team effort.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 3:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:07:39 -0500

Saving one life is worth it but I think the same boring training we have getting for the past few years needs to change. Also, I know there isn't supposed to be a stigma if you seek help but in certain fields it still exists. I would never think differently about a Soldier for seeking help but I have had friends seek help and their leadership position was basically removed and they were never given a chance to get back on the horse. It is also extremely hard to prove that this stigma is there.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 8 at 2014 12:53 PM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:53:08 -0400

I think it reinforces the growing problem we all face in the military (And out of it as well). If the training is done well, it sticks with you... Helps you to see the warning signs. It may be something you have learned previously, but it helps to reaffirm it in your mind. I think it's a good thing. It may be a pain in the ass... but it is necessary.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 10:07 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 22:07:53 -0400

SFC, I think it is great tool but I think we all should be involved regardless of rank. These stands down seems to be handed down but if you want to set the example higher leadership should be involved and she that they care too just as much as us enlisted leaders. Just my thought.

SGT P

Response by SPC Rebecca Lovie made May 16 at 2014 3:02 PM

SPC Rebecca Lovie — Fri, 16 May 2014 15:02:15 -0400

The best contingency plan for life is having faith in the Lord that you are here for a purpose. With God's Grace we can be hopeful for the future. The military is very strict about "God" related movements. This is very sad because Faith could move mountains for these soldiers. This Suicide Prevention tool is very simple, free, and could benefit so many.
I understand the suicide helpline is beneficial for intervention and they save lives daily, but how many of those soldiers with PTSD want to call in, be asked 20 questions about how they are feeling, and then have an ambulance called on them??
These soldiers can see the beauty in the world again. Give our soldiers this opportunity please!!!

http://www.risespiritualcadence.weebly.com

RISE

RISE is an organization with the purpose of getting individuals to come together to walk or run in a formation while shouting out Spiritual Cadences that are Inspiring, Motivational and Uplifting....

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made May 16 at 2014 4:08 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Fri, 16 May 2014 16:08:53 -0400

Let me share something with you all, so you will understand my answer for this question. I was suicidial, I still have the scar from when I tried taking my own life at a younger age. Does this make me high risk in the eyes of the Army and some health providors sure. I know when I need help and when my depression is spiraling out of control now.

All that said, whoever is making the Suicide training is not getting information from people like me, people like me can tell you the training is ineffective, and mostly not helpful to help identify when someone is in trouble.

I believe the training is check in the box, it seems the highers are more concerned that the public might want to get in their business a little more and find out why so many men and women are committing suicide now.

How do we fix this? There is no band-aid or blanket to fix the issue. The more pressure you place and more personal space you take away from some people the more you push them to that edge. Others need to be brought into a circle and feel like they have a safe haven.

To say suicide is selfish is not helping anyone who might be looking for away for help. My mindset just like so many others, was with me gone as a burden those around me will be better off. Some do it for selfish reasons, but many times you don't share that persons pains and burdens to make that judgement. That is one place to start, stop isolating and beating down someone who is already drowning.

As far as the MRT mindset that seems to be guiding this question. MRT is great but flawed, if you are going through the process with only yourself, it is easy to "trap" yourself even further and verigy your original stance. Logical thinking, emotions, and/or any type of mind altering product do not mix well. Not saying drugs of any sort are always involved but the first two are.

If anyone wants to talk more about this subject I'd be happy to give you my number through private message (PM).

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made May 16 at 2014 10:56 PM

LCpl Steve Wininger — Fri, 16 May 2014 22:56:45 -0400

SFC Terry, I think your final analysis sums it up. I think a bottom up approach would be beneficial, I also think that many do not tell others for fear of the consequences. However, I respectfully disagree with some of your opinion. Although we are, or have been a part of a military family, each one of us are individual in the way we process our surroundings. I have always considered myself emotionally and mentally stable, but recently found I had a breaking point. We all have it, some more, some less.

In my personal opinion the military should focus on educating and identifying. When I served in the eighties the military had a don't ask, don't tell policy towards gays in the military. This protected them from persecution and a certain discharge. That policy was recently abandoned. It seems to me, that the military has the same mentality towards those that do struggle with emotional issues. Part of the problem is culture. Most people do not want to be looked down on by their peers, so they keep quiet. This is where education and support can play a significant role in prevention. Once people realize they can speak without persecution, then they are more likely to seek help from the first line of defense, which is their friends and peers.

Next solution, is if they admit to their command they have a problem, there should be no repercussions, either by rule or prejudice. Friends can only help so much, when a person needs professional help then they should have access to it without any fear of retribution. When I served, a Marine could admit they have a drug problem and get help without fear of being kicked out. The military probably spends billions on rehabilitation for alcoholics and drug addictions so the service member can be a productive member of the unit. Why not offer the same level of help to those who are struggling mentally?

There is more that can be done, but the military leadership has to change its mentality.

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 8 at 2014 1:46 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:46:11 -0400

While I feel that there is much more that the military can be doing to help mitigate the risks of suicide I feel its important to do things that we as individuals have control over. Sure we should put more pressure on the VA for better mental health services but the easiest thing we can do is to check up on each other. I've had a couple of friends where things went sideways on them. It was friends and family that help sort out all the chaos not the Army, VA, or military. We need to be the ones that pick up the slack as we can not afford to wait for others to do so.

Response by Sgt Francis Govers made Oct 10 at 2014 1:06 PM

Sgt Francis Govers — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:06:15 -0400

Any attention paid to this crisis is a help - people contemplating suicide (and been there, done that) want attention because the believe no one is listening or cares to listen. They also believe that things will not get better no matter what they do.

I lost a good friend to suicide many years ago - the world is a much poorer place without him.

Its important to break that cycle of self-diialog. The first step is to listen without judgement. The other is to note that "this, too, will pass" - time heals a lot of wounds, and things do get better.

I'm still here and playing with my grandchildren. There is a reason to want to stick around!

Response by SSgt Tim Meuret made Oct 11 at 2014 6:24 PM

SSgt Tim Meuret — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:24:16 -0400

I respectfully disagree with you sir. The civilian population does owe us their continued right to their rights. Without the actions of a few, the many would not have what they have. General Washington once said "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation.” - 1789

As to suicide it is a truly dark place that many veterans are in, that leads them to such a result. It is difficult for any of us that have not been in that dark place to pass any judgement on them. A recent report on NPR told of a Massachusetts Guardsman that was out with his young son and his son wanted muffins. One look at the muffins set off a PTSD episode (thinking of them as IEDs). It scared him so much that he might harm his son, family or community that he drank a fifth with a bottle of pills and tried to drive into a grove of trees at high speed. A State Trooper stopped him and he got him help. We just don't know what help is needed, but we need to be prepared to give it.

Above all we need to look out for each other.