Suicide and Toxic Leadership: The Elephant in the Room

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:13:14 -0500

What are your experiences regarding toxic leadership? For me it lead me to a miserable state of depression; I felt powerless and found myself saying, "no wonder the suicide rate is so high...".

Dave Matsuda, an anthropologist studying suicides among troops in the U.S. Army at the Army’s request, is pointing at “toxic leaders” as part of the problem.

Matsuda was hired in 2010 by then-Brig. Gen. Peter C. Bayer Jr. (now a major general) to try to help U.S. commanders understand what was going on below the surface in Iraq.

Bayer was supervising the Army’s draw-down in Iraq at the time. He wanted Matsuda’s help figuring out why almost 30 soldiers in Iraq had committed suicide or attempted suicide the previous year.

After studying the cases of eight of the dead soldiers, Matsuda found that while they did have complicated personal lives — generally given as the reason they had committed suicide — there also was fault to be found among the military commanders who had led them.

In each of the cases, he discovered a leader, or leaders, who had contributed to creating a “toxic” environment for the soldiers.

http://icombatstress.com/2014/01/25/army-suicides-point-to-toxic-leaders-as-a-factor/

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Dec 18 at 2014 8:48 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:48:19 -0500

They are everywhere, and the Army is doing the wrong thing to weed them out. Our good leaders are leaving the Armed Forces because they are capable of having successful civilian careers, and are unwilling to put up with its toxic environment at the sake of their sanity. It's an epidemic, and I do not foresee our senior leaders taking enough action to ever make it not a problem. I have no doubt that these soldiers commanders, supervisors, leaders are at some degree of fault. I see things happen all the time and I tell people all the time "and they wonder why suicide rates are so high!" My list grows constantly with why our suicide rates are so high, so it confuses me to no end why leaders don't know. The best advice I can offer is to influence change at whatever level you are capable of. Maybe if enough of us try it will make a difference.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 9:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:33:40 -0500

Part of the problem is identifying toxic. I'd prefer a chain of command that beats me down to encourage improvement(often confused as toxic) as opposed to a chain that doesn't care enough but looks good from the outside looking in. A lot of the whining about toxic leaders is no different than "I hate my parents" syndrome.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 2:15 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 02:15:41 -0500

First, one must understand the difference between a stern no nonsense leader and a bad leader. A no nonsense leader holds you to high standards but not unreasonable ones. If they have any good qualities they will acknowledge what you did right and then give constructive feedback on what needs to be improved in a clear concise manner. Then they should give you the chance to improve on meeting their expectations by acknowledging improvements. A bad leader is one who never tells you what you do right and only berates you on what you do wrong or you do not meet their requirements exactly how they want it. A real bad leader gives you a task with a very vague way to do it, and then rip you apart as you should have read their mind. You can be stern but still show a concern for your people and be approachable at the same time. Many do not know how to do this well.

I have been on business end of a real bad leader once. No one in the ranks is immune to it. I worked a staff assignment for a commander that no matter what the hell we did or much effort we put into the tasks they were never to his liking. Instead of any constructive criticism he would berate people even in public. He did know how to compliment our good work to his superiors. But he managed to do it in such a fashion that he was really tooting his own horn on how great his mentor ship was guiding the junior officers. Then of course as soon as as his superiors were gone he would criticize us for what he praised us earlier on. Luckily I was on a night shift and only had to deal with him for a few hours a day. He made the job stressful in a psuedo-combat environment versus the IDF attacks. In fact we actually welcomed the IDF alarms to the base because we knew he would be under his desk taking cover. That was less time we would have to deal with him before stepping to a flight.

It was bad. I was at a boiling point to where it was compromising flight safety as I was getting really irritable and was exhausted because I was letting him get to me. I dreaded everyday being around that guy. The best time I had was when he finally rotated out of there and things became a lot calmer. I can see how if someone is dealing with an internal issue and were induced that additional stress how they may reach a limit and feel their only way out is to walk off the planet.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 19 at 2014 1:49 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:49:53 -0500

“Destructive leaders are focused on visible short-term mission accomplishment,” the students’ report said. “They provide superiors with impressive, articulate presentations and enthusiastic responses to missions. But, they are unconcerned about, or oblivious to, staff or troop morale and/or climate. They are seen by the majority of subordinates as arrogant, self-serving, inflexible and petty.”
All true, yet in my opinion, is not an excuse for committing suicide. Its a reason to make change, internally, or post Army.

"The problem is as old as the nation’s military forces, which were organized in 1775. What’s new are the efforts to identify it, label it, open up a discussion about it and eliminate it."

This should come as no surprise, the Army is made up from humans, humans from all walks of life, all demographics..

When trying to explain this to moms, dads, senators and congressmen I was fond of saying/ The Army is made up of people from your community, your home town.. and like your home town the Army has many great american heroes, and like your home town we also have murders, rapists thugs and thief's, because after all, our Soldiers came from you.
My point here is, assholes, some even sadistic assholes join the army.. When they play the game well enough to appear to have potential they get promoted,, and then, as is predictable, when they get to a position of authority, be it Drill Sergeant, PL, CO CDR, CSM they act out in a way that to them is natural.
I don't like it, I have experienced it, I chose to stay and not be one of them... Others chose a different path. Walk away, and or sometimes a more permanent solution.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 6:25 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:25:19 -0500

I was priveleged to work beside Doc Matsuda during this tour. He's a great man and an intellectual powerhouse. He was integral to many planning sessions I held up in MNCI/USFI. I think his linkages are sound. I don't think that anything can be looked at in a vacuum, and I don't think he would say so either. There are a multitude of factors that lay into suicide and each and every situation is a personal tragedy, supported or caused by a multitude of stressors. I would say that ON TOP of everything else that is going on with an individual, if they are in a situation with a toxic leader, those stressors are multiplied. In that same situation with that same soldier and situation, it's distinctly possible in a caring command climate where everyone is valued...that the soldier in question may have found the right guidance to get him over the things he saw as insurmountable.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 6:41 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:41:51 -0500

They do what they feel they could get away with. I'm honestly beginning to think that some of them think it is a game. I've seen those pushed too far by their "leaders". We have lost amazing brothers and sisters to them. I know of someone right now, barely hanging in there, whose leadership ridicules them. This soldier has consistently tried to get help. What do you tell them when they have exhausted all efforts (to include going to the er) and no one wants to help? At what point is their leadership deemed negligent? Is it only after they are too late? How can you intervene when you see this happening? This Soldier has even gotten to the point of telling those they turn to that they will be sure to mention them by name in their suicide note. That is what I consider toxic leadership. Instead of help, this Soldier only gets written up almost daily often due to lack of leadership. How can this Soldier be helped before it's too late?

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 9:41 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 21:41:26 -0500

Sorry. While I agree with some other comments on this post, that nothing happens in a vacuum, I feel the single greatest reason we have an increase in the number of suicides in the military is: we don't train our soldiers to adapt to stress anymore. From the beginnings of basic training we no longer use stress by design to create and hone combat soldiers. We constantly coddle and baby our troops. Recruits can no longer be smoked, or referred to by rank alone (you guessed it, you can no longer call a private a private) because it is considered demeaning. We as leaders, NCOs and instructors are hamstrung by public opinion and hence we allow mediocre recruits to become mediocre soldiers who are ill equipped to survive and function under stressful situations and what can I ask is more stressful than direct combat with the enemy combined with separation from emotional support? If you think I am over simplifying then consider this: D-Day invasion. If you think for one minute that the calibre of recruit we are kicking out currently even remotely compares to the that of the men who watched the men in front, the men on each side and the man behind him go down and STILL moved forward to an elevated fortified machine gun position then you are part of the problem. If you can't handle the simple stresses of being called a private or having a DI screaming in your face and watching your every move and telling you, you're not a real soldier until that graduation date then how can we expect you to handle the stresses of combat and lengthy deployments? You'd stand on that boat in 1944 and shit your pants and nothing else. Basic Training is not just about teaching you basic riflery and army protocol but to weed out those unfit to serve. Those that can't handle the stresses and requirements of combat and service. Is PTSD real? Absolutely. I myself suffer, but I am loathe to think what condition I would be in if the army hadn't exposed me to it from day one trained me to deal with it. Now I don't liken myself to those great men in 1944 and even wonder if I would have had the fortitude to get off those boats, but I know the Army is currently doing itself and these men a great disservice, long term, by lowering standards, easing the stress environment and pumping out subpar recruits. Not all of them are subpar to be sure, but I would posit that a great number of our suicides would not have passed basic training 20 or more years ago when many of us went through!