Stolen Valor by a real Veteran...how would you address this situation?

SFC Daniel Faires — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 12:31:11 -0400

Question
I have run into on multiple occasions a Veteran who was discharged (medically from my understanding ) who wears his dress blues ( USMC ) everywhere.
Initially I was amused as he is in his 70s then as I looked at his uniform I realized he is wearing the following awards that really got my attention
-Navy Cross
-Navy and Marine Corps medal with combat V
- Silver star
- Bronze star
- navy commendation medal with v device
- 4 Purple Hearts
And on and on

I decided if this guy who has all the nations highest awards is among my midst I should be able to find the real citations and get a street or a park or even get a street named after him
That's a real Bona fide hero
After looking through the Internet and the various databases I could not find anything, hey it was Vietnam paper gets lost
he ended up giving me some paperwork to back up his claims, I was looking through it and found discrepancies so I did a FOIA request
Long story short he did earn a Purple Heart and a navy commendation medal
I gave the info to the local military unit that had a lot of contact with him and I said if I see him still wearing this I am going to call him out

What are your thoughts ? I would especially like to hear from Any active duty Marines
I have vetted this through Doug who is considered the subject matter expert, through Mary who is also considered another primary source

The issue is No one that has day to day dealings with him has the guts to stop him following is an exact quote" he's an old man who is he hurting"

So rally point what are your thoughts ?

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Jun 7 at 2015 12:38 PM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 12:38:24 -0400

From what you have described, I have to admit to being skeptical. Sounds like a candidate for some research by the experts at http://www.stolenvalor.com/.

Any thoughts SGT Private RallyPoint Member?

Stolen Valor

Stolen Valor. True stories of liars in violation of the Stolen Valor Act. Pretenders, liars and frauds claiming military honors they didn't earn.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2015 12:38 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 12:38:52 -0400

That seems tricky seeing that he did earn some of those prestigious medals. You could always ask him about it nicely and see what he says. Strange that having earned some, he would just go for broke and come off as a liar about some of the other ones.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 7 at 2015 1:02 PM

SFC Daniel Faires — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 13:02:57 -0400

I had the following organizations help me research and vet this

pownetwork
Fakewarriors
Homeofheroes
3rd Recon Association
HQMC

No one could find anything

Once an FOI was done concerning the real recipient I not only got a picture but the citation.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 7 at 2015 1:14 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 13:14:53 -0400

-Navy and Marine Corps medal with combat V

Are you sure about this one?

This is a non-combat award, and hence has no V device available (to the best of my knowledge). I know one person personally who had one. He got it during a grenade pit incident where a recruit dropped a live grenade.

Seeing this award with a V is something that would make me give a double take.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2015 1:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 13:15:34 -0400

So my question is, is he profiting in any away wearing the other awards he didn't earn?
According to your fact finding, he didn't earn the Navy Cross, SS, BS, and possibly 3 extra PH's he didn't earn. I get the FOIA request was received, but you stated, 'hey it was Vietnam paper gets lost".

"The Stolen Valor Act of 2013 (Pub.L. 113–12; H.R. 258) is a United States federal law that was passed by the 113th United States Congress. The law amends the federal criminal code to make it a crime for a person to fraudulently claim having received any of a series of particular military decorations and awards with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit from convincing someone that he or she rightfully did receive that award."

Granted there is probably some other violations in there somewhere as well regarding his wear of the uniform. So you call him out, what then?

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 7 at 2015 1:25 PM

SFC Daniel Faires — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 13:25:38 -0400

He didn't earn the navy marine corps medal at all

Is he profiting probably not
Is he wearing them and regarded as a super hero. Yes

Just the fact he is wearing these unearned medals bothers me

He had an otherwise honorable career

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 7 at 2015 3:16 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 15:16:43 -0400

Kudos SFC Daniel Faires for approaching this reasonably and checking the facts first! We definitely don't need a repeat of last week's botched call out where the individual and a police officer got aggressive and got it wrong. Vets claiming stolen valor, to me, is worse than anything because they should know better and they are committing an injustice against their own community. There was a discussion last year about a senior AD NCO, a SGM, I believe, who got busted and forced out for wearing awards he didn't earn. Shameful. Be proud of your service for what you did. "Be all that you can be", not all that you think you should be.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made Jun 7 at 2015 7:20 PM

SPC Jeffrey Bly — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 19:20:53 -0400

I'm not so young anymore. Wish I were, but that's something else entirely. My point is, as we get older we sometimes wish things had been different in our lives and we do stuff, perhaps not to fool others, but to make us feel better about ourselves.

I guess where I'm going with this is if the guy is a Veteran, is he seen by the VA? Does he perhaps have issues that the VA is aware of that causes this older guy to do these types of things?

I mean, if it were my dad, a Navy Veteran of 27 years, I wouldn't call him out on it. I would feel sorry for him and smile, hug him and still love h regardless even knowing he didn't actually earn them.

Now if he were trying to fool others for some sort of gain In an attempt to knowingly deceive them, I would then confront him and try to right a wrong.

Luckily for me my dad is a great and honest man whom I am extremely proud of and wish I could fill those big boots. He's my hero. Maybe this guy sporting medals he didn't earn is somebody else's hero. Maybe we can try to get more info before we make this sort of judgement call against him. Mental illness issues can rear their ugly head and manifest themselves in a myriad of ways.

This may or may not be the case with this particular individual. It's just a thought I had.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 7 at 2015 7:27 PM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 19:27:23 -0400

Speak to him privately and reveal your findings and kindly ask him to fix his uniform. If he refuses, call him out in public, citing all your sources.

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made Jun 7 at 2015 7:43 PM

MAJ Anne McGee — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 19:43:31 -0400

It seems he may be asking for attention that he isn't receiving otherwise. He sees it as benign but doesn't understand how disrespectful it is to those who earned those medals. Perhaps a private confrontation with a representative from the local VFW and a conversation about proper wear of the uniform to include only those medals that have actually been awarded. He may be a lonely old man that needs some brotherly love and companionship.

Response by LT Jessica Kellogg made Jun 8 at 2015 12:02 AM

LT Jessica Kellogg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:02:54 -0400

Publically calling him out or shaming him seems inappropriate in this situation (based on your description).
It seems like a situation where tactfully talking to him rather than "confronting" him maybe more important.
Maybe he doesn't understand the significance of what he is doing. Maybe he doesn't accurately remember his service. Maybe the paperwork is lost.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jun 9 at 2015 6:30 AM

PO3 David Fries — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 06:30:09 -0400

I have to agree with most everyone else. Speak to him privately and calmly first.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 9 at 2015 9:39 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 09:39:35 -0400

This is the general consensus that I have found through rally point and with discussing it with active and reserve personnel , since he is "just" walking around and not really profiting in the legal sense of the word, it's no big deal
Well to be honest it is a big deal to me
if a active duty servicemember was wearing a ranger tab or SF tab that member would be vilified and destroyed on sight, but since he is an older veteran and not profiting it's "ok"

Thank you for everyone's insight

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 9 at 2015 10:05 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:05:26 -0400

Unless he is committing fraud by using the military uniform, what he is doing legal but that does not make it right by veterans.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jun 10 at 2015 9:32 AM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:32:31 -0400

In my humble opinion, calling someone out for stolen valor is a slippery slope. On one hand, the interests and legitimate accomplishments of true service members and veterans are trying to be protected. On the other hand, the majority of the time the accuser comes across looking like a complete ass. The incident last week with the veteran being harassed is a primary example. However, I will also point out a video I saw earlier this week where I guy filmed himself calling out a man wearing Air Force ABUs and a boonie hat. He had the rank (TSgt) and the SF badge on the uniform. The guy asks him what his AFSC (job identifier) and he completely botched it up. The man questioning him soon goes on a profanity-laced tirade as he called him everything under the sun. In the end, he made himself look just as bad by losing his composure and thinking he was doing something good. I know veterans are proud of their service, but the cases of stolen valor serve as the reason why we're told during that final out-processing briefing not to wear our uniform.

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jun 10 at 2015 9:36 AM

SGT John W Lugo — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:36:58 -0400

Congratulations for doing some prior research, time to handle business.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 13 at 2015 3:47 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 15:47:12 -0400

SFC Daniel Faires, these guys and gals have mental issues, they live in their own world, just leave them alone, have we become so weak that we need to pick on the mentally ill!

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jul 14 at 2015 9:26 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 09:26:36 -0400

Ok everyone that has been following this thread
I am going to print the paperwork and redact the name to protect the individual
It has not only been proven and he has been talked to he now is starting a nonprofit
He has since been invited to ceremony's and presentations and has even been offered speaking engagements

Here is the best part I have been to every single Vietnam, Memorial Day, Veterans Day program and he has not been at one not one

He only goes to ceremony's that are not public

Ok so I will be posting his paperwork he presented to us and then I will post the paperwork that was given to me by POWNETWORK

by the way

Doug sterner himself revewied the documents and stated they were false

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Oct 24 at 2015 1:09 PM

PVT Andrew Burd — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 13:09:21 -0400

ever wonder if he's wearing the medals that someone he fought and died had earned? not unheard of... but he's a freakin old man leave the guy alone.

Response by MCPO Steve Spence made Nov 1 at 2015 6:39 PM

MCPO Steve Spence — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:39:19 -0500

Outstanding idea.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jan 14 at 2016 12:59 PM

SFC Daniel Faires — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:59:20 -0500

Update ***
Never ended up having to call him out the local unit received the paperwork from ST Louis and the truth came out
This individual to my knowledge has not been seen wearing the uniform or the awards since

Response by COL John Hudson made Jan 24 at 2016 6:47 AM

COL John Hudson — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 06:47:48 -0500

I addressed this in another similar post. My father gave 31 years of his life in the Army Air Corp (WWII), Korea, and Vietnam. In his late 70's and early 80's, he very much enjoyed going to his local watering hole on Armistice Day and knocking one back with his buddies...all from that same era. I visited the house just as he returned from one such outing. He had taken all of his ribbons and strung them, each and every one, in a single line that extended from the center top button of his Air Force 'Class A' jacket, past the left pocket top all the way over to the end of his shoulder; looking nothing so much as a multi-colored arrow that had speared him left to right! In as tactful a voice as I could muster, I suggested there was a better way to display them, removed and put them into proper order and placement...but, the damage had already been done. I can only imagine the silent laughter that went on in that bar on seeing him like that, but certain that the doers had too much respect for the "old vet" to say anything.