So with the upcoming position of Commander-in-Chief on the line, what do we do as service members if he/she takes office and abuses it?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:12:50 -0400

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 26 at 2016 2:18 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:18:24 -0400

You obey lawful orders and pray for a resurgence of freedom-loving Americans to take back their country from the intelligentsia who believe that they know better than us and make decisions for We the People,

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 2:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:30:13 -0400

Good questions and responses from all of you I just say let's wait until after the election. The Twilight Zone is alive and well things that you think should work are not working. Operation New Dawn became operation Dawn of the Dead with isil coming back

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 2:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:34:01 -0400

Easy we are here to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 26 at 2016 2:46 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:46:03 -0400

You follow orders and soldier on. If you cannot do that, then get out and criticize the POTUS to your heart's content.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Oct 26 at 2016 2:46 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:46:36 -0400

Just keep driving on, and do your missions like we did in the 90s under the illustrious Clinton administration.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Oct 26 at 2016 3:35 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 15:35:42 -0400

It isn't up to service members to do anything. In fact doing so is what you call a coup d'é·tat, and it that is how you end up with dictatorships. If a Commander-in-Chief abuses his or her authority it is up to Congress to impeach and remove that person from office.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Oct 26 at 2016 3:52 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 15:52:11 -0400

A fine academic exercise, worthy of thought, but it's a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

LONG before "we", the military, contemplate what "we" will do regarding our elected CiC--a concept that the founders were so disturbed by that they specifically placed the military under civilian authority (hell, many were afraid of even having a standing Army)--there are some tough questions to ponder first: Just who or how many get to decide what "abuse" is? And just what level(s) of "abuse" must be met before taking action?

The tough questions don't stop there.

Suppose it is commonly agreed both inside and outside the military that a serious abuse of office by our Commander-in-Chief happened. Should "we" allow the system do deal with the situation as was established by the Constitution? If not, is the military not sidestepping or blatantly violating the Constitution it's members are sworn to uphold? What if "we" aren't supported by the American people? What if "we" aren't really a "we" after all, and not everyone in the military agrees to "do" something about the wayward CiC or even would be willing act against elements of the military who would "do" something?

I'll echo what others have said: We follow our lawful orders.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 26 at 2016 4:54 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 16:54:44 -0400

Since it is not your role to supervise or provide oversight to the Commander-In-Chief, you do not have to worry about this. That role falls to Congress and sometimes to the Supreme Court.

Also both the Media and both parties have hyped a lot in this past election. The outcome whatever it may be is really not going to be the end of the world. Lets say the Democrats win all the Senate seats they can this election, big deal they have a one vote majority in two years there are 25 Senate seats that open. So the Democrats will need to be real careful not to tick anyone off these next two years. Same if the Republicans win.

Some of Hillary's promises are impossible to fill without causing major splits in the Democratic Party. The folks that voted for her did not think her positions through. Take the Single Payer Healthcare proposal she proposed. She already promised the Labor Unions she would not put that in place. So she is in a real quandry if she gets elected, skip the promise (highly likely), grant the Labor Unions an exemption from single payer (that will go over like a lead balloon with the rest of us), or go back on her word to the Unions and pass it over their objections (Split the Democratic Party). Easiest course of path for her is not fulfill that promise. Thats just one example, there is more. So everything Hillary promised before the election.......I'll be surprised if she attempts more than 40% of it.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 26 at 2016 5:39 PM

SFC George Smith — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:39:45 -0400

the same thing they are doing Now... Follow the Lawful orders and Hope someone has the Spinal fortitude to stand up the Bad ones...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 5:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:43:26 -0400

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Oct 26 at 2016 7:07 PM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 19:07:12 -0400

You keep serving honorably or you resign/don't reenlist. Pretty easy question.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 26 at 2016 9:06 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:06:48 -0400

You follow orders until they become manifestly illegal or immoral.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 26 at 2016 9:45 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:45:07 -0400

You continue to follow all legal orders. Right up until they're illegal.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made Oct 26 at 2016 10:09 PM

Capt Michael Greene — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 22:09:45 -0400

To any SM with this question, I would say they have two choices:
First, if you wish, you could do as you are ordered and not moan and gripe and complain about your leadership. There's a lot of precedent for this.
OR, you can believe that you are smarter and wiser than all other senior enlisted, career officers, and general officers in all the services, the Pentagon and JCS, constitutional lawyers, and the justices on the Supreme Court, and do whatever you want.

You may vote. You may write your Congress Critter. But it is for others to sort out any any abuse of office allegations by a president.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 10:17 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 22:17:49 -0400

As stated before, follow LAWFUL orders. And you have every right to contact your elected representatives with any issues

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 26 at 2016 11:24 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:24:28 -0400

That is the job of the House of Representatives and the Senate. The only legal recourses open to active duty military are the ballot box and refusal to execute illegal orders.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 4:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 04:48:55 -0400

The same bar will be used. If Trump does not deliver, then it would only fair to criticize and Trey Gowdy said he would. If this kind of trend would catch on, this whole thing turns around. Let's fact it, even the GOP has squandered good will be playing old school politics and we see what is happening there. Too much time running and less time, doing the nation's business. SFC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 27 at 2016 11:42 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:42:57 -0400

It's a legalistic response, but first you should follow the lawful orders of your superior officers. As citizens, you should exercise your right to free speech and freedom of assembly within the limits of military regulations and the UCMJ. Exercise your right to vote and oppose office holders at all levels that abuse their position. If you sincerely believe the President is a "domestic enemy" of the Constitution, then communicate with your Members of Congress encouraging them to limit her/his abuse of power. Do not consider fomenting revolution while you're in uniform. It will only lead to bad results for you and shame on your service.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 27 at 2016 1:01 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:01:47 -0400

Define 'abuses it'? My core belief on your question is that we take an oath to defend the Constitution first. We also obey the orders of the President of the United States, but I think we need to qualify in our own heart that with lawful orders, because we should not forget that the oath is to the Constitution first.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2016 4:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 16:02:10 -0400

You guys are all coming up with good answers. Keep it up.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2016 7:53 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 07:53:09 -0400

The big problem here is we have become so polarized that we tend to overstate everything.

What is abuse to one is the right path to another. Unfortunately, both become passionate and logic and reason get left behind.

In answer to the question the standard in my opinion is is it a lawful order.