Should you salute gate guards?

COL Vincent Stoneking — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:44:21 -0400

So, a military etiquette thing that has always caused me to wonder. Especially since JBLM put Soldiers back on the gates.<div><br><div>(Military) Gate guards salute Officers after checking their id. I always return  the salute, whether in uniform or not. 90% of the time I am in civvies, swinging by before/after work or on my lunch break. </div></div><div><br></div><div> Am I technically right to return the salute while in civvies? I'm going to continue regardless, as it seems rude not to return a salute.  <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 6:08 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:08:54 -0400

Great. Now you are going to make me research, but I have always gone with the driver never salutes in the Army. I acknowledge the honors with a "Thank you and have a great day."

As for the AF, they always return the salute.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 15 at 2014 6:11 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:11:29 -0400

G2G sir drive on!

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Apr 15 at 2014 6:23 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:23:35 -0400

I don't see how you could ever possibly be wrong returning the salute, if for no other reason than as a courtesy. Technical answer....don't really know, but I would either way!

Response by CPL Christian Bengel made Apr 15 at 2014 6:48 PM

CPL Christian Bengel — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:48:31 -0400

You would be absolutely correct sir! Regardless of what uniform or clothing you're wearing, you're still an officer within the US Army. Ettiquette requires the guard to salute you, however return of the salute by the superior is NOT required.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 8:37 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:37:38 -0400

Not sure what your regs are Sir but I will say that when saluting either initiating or recognizing in civilian attire for us Marines is replaced with a position of attention. Ive seen officers come to the position of attention to acknowledge a salute when they were not in the right attire to salute back but I've also seen Marines who verbally recognize or throw some type of hand and arm signal to acknowledge you. For Marines, as long as there is something done to recognize the salute, that's all we care about so we can cut the salute.

Response by Sgt John Clemente made Apr 16 at 2014 5:01 PM

Sgt John Clemente — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 17:01:58 -0400

A blue base sticker indicates officer while red indicates enlisted.

Response by 1SG Anthony Bly (Retired) made Apr 17 at 2014 2:32 AM

1SG Anthony Bly (Retired) — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 02:32:01 -0400

Sir, you are white on rice!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2014 11:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 23:44:15 -0400

I believe the hand salute is one of the highest courtesies you can give someone.  Think about the other things Soldiers salute?  Flag and Country.  If I render that courtesy I expect it to be acknowledged.  Seriously If you are an officer and you don't acknowledge that courtesy then shame on you. 

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2014 11:52 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 23:52:52 -0400

Sir, it doesn't say specifically but the way I read this, I'd say you were ok for not returning. BUT, as someone mentioned, it never hurts:

d. The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates

and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or

to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to

recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military

personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Apr 18 at 2014 8:42 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:42:33 -0400

As one who has stood gate guard, I would like to thank you for your courtesy

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 18 at 2014 10:03 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 10:03:13 -0400

LTC - I think returning the salute regardless if you are in uniform or in civvies is a great move on your part.  It shows the Soldiers that you are returning the respect they are showing you.  I remember pulling guard on post a few times, some officers wouldn't even acknowledge we were there other than by handing us their ID cards.  Others would stop return the salute and greeting of the day and move on.  For some reason, the ones that never really acknowledged us got hit more often with the random car searches right before PT formation... ;-)

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 18 at 2014 11:39 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:39:30 -0400

Well sir as an Infantryman and an MP I have saluted every officer that has come through my Point. Wether it be at Post, rear gate or where ever. And the return saulte is nice acknoweldging that we have saulted you as in respect. If all I got was a carry-on and no saulte or at-ease or what ever you still ackoweldge that I was saluting. With that being said in an Field enviroment there as be a few officers that got butt hurt because I didn't. I then replied with a hearty SNIPER CHECK SIR and carried on!

I was corrected by the battalion commander once in on of my earlier units, LTC Cooper. Iwas doing something I forget what, was unaware of my surroundings and the COl walked up. He surpised me when I seen him. I knew someone was coming but thought it was on of my guys. I looked up seen him. Snapped a salute "evening sir!" he didnt return the saulte and politely asked me" CPL Sergent do you dislike me?" No sir, then why the salute!" It was kinda ackward and we spoke for several minutes. He was a very nice man.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2014 11:19 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 23:19:47 -0400

From day of basic training I was told "When in doubt, whip it out". May not be the best phrasing any more in our kindler, gentler military but I think it does ring try here.

I do know that some of the branches an officer isn't required to return a salute when not in uniform or under cover but I do think that common coourtesy would at least dictate verbally acknowledging the gesture.

Several years ago I was conducting a post visit with one of my guys working a gate when a Navy LT came through the gate and threw a hissy fit when I didn't salute him when he came through even though the other guy checked the ID (he was in uniform though not making him a complete ass over the deal). After I explained why I didn't initially salute him and rendered something close to a salute he proceeded to drive off with out returning any type of gesture to either of us.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Apr 24 at 2014 5:01 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Thu, 24 Apr 2014 17:01:01 -0400

At the gate, the wave in and the salute is the o.k to pass at least OCONUS all ranks. No return salute was necessary back then ...1970s. I don't know about today's gate guards. Just be wary of not getting the wave in.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 7:40 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 19:40:30 -0400

Sir,

Per AR 600-25 Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy para 1-5d:

The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates
and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or
to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to
recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military
personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.

This does not say that the officer in the vehicle should or should not return the salute.

However, later in the regulation it states when salutes are not required: 1-5i:

Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.
(4) Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety

Based off this I would go with return the salute if you are able. I always do as it is out of respect.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 8:55 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 20:55:03 -0400

Sir,

I do the same, as I visited JBLM a couple of weeks ago and found gate guards there. I can say that, being on the other side of the salute for a long time and standing at those gates, that I thought it was rude when an officer did not return the courtesy.

So, in stead of being rude (now), I try to do the very thing I was offended by when it wasn't done those many years ago. They are giving me the respect earned and, therefore, I am returning their respect.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2014 9:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Apr 2014 21:00:47 -0400

Sir,
It has been said but again I always salute when practical and safe in my vehicle. If we want to be the professionals they are pushing us to be. I feel we need to keep pushing to do the simple custom and courtesies.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made May 7 at 2014 2:17 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Wed, 07 May 2014 14:17:12 -0400

I believe you are correct and you most certainly get more respect from the gate guards. Might make a difference between getting a ticket or not later on down the road.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 3:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 15:12:30 -0400

I've always returned salutes to gate guards who render one. The Marines at MCAS Iwakuni would bring the entire guard detail to attention and then render a salute when an officer enters the gate. But the thing that really tripped me up was when I was a brand new butter bar at Aberdeen. If I was wearing my beret when driving to class the AIT Soldiers walking on the sidewalks would see it and salute my vehicle. But they would see my rank at the last second, making return salutes at 35mph difficult. It felt rude if I wasn't quick enough to return one.

Response by LTC Larry Morris made May 10 at 2014 1:33 PM

LTC Larry Morris — Sat, 10 May 2014 13:33:12 -0400

I concur, I always return a salute, out of respect for their professionalism, and job duties. I also give them a Hooah, or "take care" with the salute, as an acknowledgment of the importance of their job.

Response by Sgt Mark Bierman made May 11 at 2014 7:23 PM

Sgt Mark Bierman — Sun, 11 May 2014 19:23:26 -0400

There is not a rule stating you have to return the salute. There is a sticker in your car window that is color coded to tell the gate guards if the vehicle belongs to an officer, NCO, or airman. So technically we were saluting the vehicle whether it is an officer or one of their dependents driving. But, I always appreciated the return salute more when it was not required. Nice to be appreciated for an underappreciated job. Thank you to all that did return the salutes.

Response by SPC Jessica Stewart made May 12 at 2014 1:10 AM

SPC Jessica Stewart — Mon, 12 May 2014 01:10:03 -0400

I don't think it should be mandatory but saluting back, civvies or not, is returning the respect shown to you so I say continue for sure!

Response by SSG William Sutter made May 12 at 2014 11:42 AM

SSG William Sutter — Mon, 12 May 2014 11:42:29 -0400

Sir, Unless I am mistaken, drivers do not salute. I am going to have to look that one up again to see if I am still right. It is always good to look things up every so often to keep up to date.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2014 9:29 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 May 2014 21:29:45 -0400

As a new officer, coming from the medical side of things, I was met with this courtesy on my first visit to Minot AFB. Due to my inexperience, and utter surprise at the level of security presence on base compared to my previous experience with other posts, I did not render a salute back to the SF on guard. I couldn't stop thinking about that, purely based on the simple notion of respect to the TSgt. I consider this one of my many learning experiences, and one so simple, but unforgettable. The next trip in, I returned the salute, and will continue to do for as long as my career in the military carries me.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 1:52 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 13:52:04 -0400

There is NOTHING that says you cannot or should not render hand salutes in civilian clothes. Hand over your heart is the prescribed honor to render in civilian clothes for civilians (nonmilitary ever). It is appropriate to return salutes in civilian clothes

Response by SGT Mark Spires made May 19 at 2014 4:12 AM

SGT Mark Spires — Mon, 19 May 2014 04:12:52 -0400

I come from the generation of MPs who served during the time of vehicle registration in which all officers and warrant officers were issued blue in color vehicle stickers for their POVs. As gate guards we saluted all officer registered vehicles as they pasted the gate. As to wither or not they saluted back I could not say because my attention was already on the next vehicle approaching. If an officer stopped for information regardless of dress a salute was given but none was expected back if they were in civilian clothing and not much thought was wasted if they didn't salute in uniform, I always saw that as their short coming but not my place to judge.

Response by MAJ Dennis Malone made May 28 at 2014 2:43 PM

MAJ Dennis Malone — Wed, 28 May 2014 14:43:52 -0400

As a retiree, I ALWAYS return the respect that is given to me, my wife did as well before I commissioned her...she, now, deserves it in her own right. Carry on and salute even if you are in your Speedo, which no one wants to see : )

Response by SFC Michael Patterson made May 29 at 2014 10:43 AM

SFC Michael Patterson — Thu, 29 May 2014 10:43:11 -0400

Drive on Sir! It may not be a requirement however it shows that young Soldier that you have as much respect for them as they do for you.

Response by LTC Martin Metz made May 29 at 2014 11:51 AM

LTC Martin Metz — Thu, 29 May 2014 11:51:34 -0400

Whether in uniform or not, the hand salute is unique to the uniformed community. I'm old school and always return the salute....in uniform or not. Now that I'm retired, it's mostly in Mufti. Walking around Camp Casey, Korea back in 1981-1982 in civvies off duty, I can remember saluting jeeps that went by that were obviously command vehicles (usually had the stars, eagle, or oak leaf plate displayed). Marked vehicle or not, I would render a salute if I knew the senior occupant was a ranking officer. When I was the senior individual in the vehicle, I in turn, returned the salute as well. Also, returning a guard's hand salute when driving into a military installation always impressed my mom ;)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 8:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 May 2014 20:27:18 -0400

The regulations states a salute is not required from you if you are in civilian clothes but it is nice that you show the respect and return it.

Response by LTC Bo Worley made Jun 5 at 2014 12:11 AM

LTC Bo Worley — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 00:11:45 -0400

Yes, you should return their salute. Every time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 7:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 19:54:27 -0400

I was a gate guard for 6 years, and I have always followed the custom of Saluting officers either in Uniform or in Civies. I think its not about the Salute, but the passing of Respect as soldiers cross one another. Keep the tradition, since we lose so many over the passing years.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 18 at 2014 12:18 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:18:29 -0400

Sir,

As a guy who stood a metric Sh%t ton of hours on gates, sweating my proverbial ass off, or freezing it, or soaking in the rain....

Yes, if at all possible, you should return the salute. If you feel that you should not, because your head is not covered, or you are uncomfortable because you are in a polo shirt, you should absolutely acknowledge the salute by saying that you appreciate it.

What is irksome, is when a squared away troop, doing their monotonous and unappreciated job snaps off a smart salute and gets not so much as a nod.

They will keep doing it, because it is the way it is done, and it is what is expected. There may also be less than stellar troops on those gates. Those are not representative of the whole. They also, like you, may be having a bad day , but they should still come off as professional. Sometimes the simple "OOHRAH", "HOOAH" or thanks can be enough to point them in the right direction.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 1:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:44:05 -0400

As the old saying goes, remember where you came from. Being Security Forces, rendering a saluting from the gate guard post is a time honored tradition of paying respect to our O's, both active and retired. Not to mention it is usually in the SSI's (special security instructions) for the gate guard to follow.

My biggest complaint about this isn't really occuring now these days since we no longer utilize the AF Form 2220 (stickers on the cars) to validate who's an Officer and who's enlisted. Yes those stickers did have a meaning for us...the complaint was when I would salute a spouse who in-turn would salute me back or stop in my lane of traffic and wait for me to salute them, as they felt I owed it to them. It really irked me knowing this would happen.

Now to answer to OP's question, LTC Stoneking, continue saluting in civvies...you earned it and we will continue to salute you for your service and contribution to our military.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 1:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:44:14 -0400

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 1:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:44:27 -0400

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 8:56 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:56:14 -0400

Sir, The regulation states that you salute if you recognize someone as an officer outranking you. It doesn't state *how* you recognize that person....

If you're in civilian clothing, but providing your ID card to the gate guard, they recognize you as an officer, and therefore render the salute. Once they do that, your impulse you cited above is proper.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 9:24 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:24:50 -0400

Vincent,
I have always returned the guards salute even when I am in civvies and I always give the civilian guards here at Belvoir the greeting of the day since so many are not very nice coming in the gate.

Response by MAJ JohnK Wright, V made Jun 28 at 2014 10:44 PM

MAJ JohnK Wright, V — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 22:44:17 -0400

I always rendered the salute back. When I lived on a military base, your decal for your car indicated if you were an officer or not.

Response by SGT Jacky Koenig Sr made Jul 10 at 2014 5:02 PM

SGT Jacky Koenig Sr — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 17:02:46 -0400

When I served, infantry units were frequently rotated into gate guard duty, sometimes on main gates, with MP's. But more frequently on perimeter gates. Vehicles with D.O.D. bumper decals were waved through, regardless of whether it was a commissioned, or non-com sticker. Any VEHICLE was saluted that displayed the blue (commissioned officer) stickers, irregardless if the driver/occupants was or were the officer or not. It was a much appreciated courtesy to receive the salute back from the officer. A not-so-welcomed sight to see sneers from dependents (which often happened), and a bit disheartening to be ignored by the officer. Thanks to all of you who were considerate to return the salute.

Response by Capt Gardea Christian made Jul 21 at 2014 2:05 PM

Capt Gardea Christian — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:05:11 -0400

In the Marine Corps, there is no saluting in civilian attire.
Across the military, when one is in civilian attire and the national anthem is played, one stands at attention in lieu of saluting. In the case of gate guards, a thank you would suffice.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 6:15 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:15:59 -0400

I always do. It just seems like the right thing to do.

Response by SPC Richard White made Jul 31 at 2014 4:44 AM

SPC Richard White — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:44:39 -0400

If you are saluted by a gate guard it is only right to return their salute

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 8:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 20:08:27 -0400

About time they put Sodliers back on the gates..

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 8:36 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:36:59 -0400

I'll chime in with a little Navy perspective. We are similar to Marines in that we only salute if we are in uniform AND covered. If I'm in civies or uncovered I will, at a minimum, atleast acknowledge the salute with an approving nod and a "thank you."

So in the future don't take it the wrong way if a Navy Officer doesn't return salute while driving through the gate. It's just not our reg/custom/culture.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 8:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:43:50 -0400

I always have, and will continue to. It is a respect and common courtesy to the Soldier at the gate that initiates the salute.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 10:32 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:32:34 -0400

I've always returned a salute whenever I'm physically able. I believe that not returning one is a sign of disrespect.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 8:26 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:26:21 -0500

Sir....I think that is an Army thing (I do the same thing). I have noticed while serving with the Marines here that they only return the salute when they are in uniform. If they are in civilians, they will be courteous and acknowledge the salute, but not return it.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 15 at 2014 12:36 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:36:55 -0500

I'm with you, COL Vincent Stoneking, I'd return the salute! That was always my practice!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 6:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 18:03:08 -0500

That all depends if you are a 2LT or not. But then that is a whole other discussion all together.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 10:21 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 22:21:38 -0500

I always salute Gate Guards in return. I have saluted Enlisted Soldiers who were carrying an object in both hands because I know they would have saluted me if able.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 11:39 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:39:25 -0500

I think it is belligerent of an officer that doesn't return a salute. It is the same when I say Hello to a stranger...

Response by Cpl James O'Rawe made Dec 16 at 2014 7:35 PM

Cpl James O'Rawe — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:35:00 -0500

Of course you should. It is a sign of respect for them and for the Military Branch they serve in and the Base that they are the first thing you see of it.

Response by SPC Stephanie Oanes made Dec 23 at 2014 1:08 PM

SPC Stephanie Oanes — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 13:08:49 -0500

well considering I'm a civilian and medically retired as a specialist, I was never entitled to a salute to begin with.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 8:18 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 08:18:50 -0500

Yes, always return the salute.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 2:57 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 14:57:02 -0500

I always return a salute. I figure not to, would be snubbing the guy at the gate, who probably is not the most excited person to have that duty, especially when having to stand out there all day in hot summers and cold winters.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Dec 31 at 2014 6:50 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:50:11 -0500

As a former gate sentry myself....and longtime Security Forces member, I feel that I have direct knowledge on the subject. (have done that duty as Marine MP, and as Air Force SP)

COL Vincent Stoneking You are 100% correct in returning that salute Sir. Those sentries, perform a necessary duty that largely goes unrecognized. Your simple recognition of that in the form of a salute lets them know that you are a professional. It also reaffirms that they are doing the right thing.

There is no reason for anyone to NOT acknowledge that duty a sentry is performing, when they stop and engage in the very brief conversation of getting onto the base. There is also no excuse for the gate sentry to be a jack leg.

Marines don't salute uncovered, they can still acknowledge the respect that they are being shown, by saying Thank You/Have a good day/Oohrah/Semper Fi/Be Safe/. Anything less is unprofessional.

If the Sentry is acting unprofessional, that can be addressed either on the spot or with Shift Commander/Watch Commander/Sgt of the Guard etc (all of which will fix that). We all have bosses. Everyone has bad days, but bad days should not interfere with professionalism. The flip of that is that when you encounter exceptional professionalism, that too can be addressed. (takes 10 attaboys to eliminate an "aw shitter").

SSG Michael Bacon It sounds to me like you have encountered a unprofessional officer, if they would only salute a Marine. Saluting knows no boundaries of service. That is sad.

Sgt Packy Flickinger I have no doubt that happened, and I have seen it through the services, and quite frankly that deserved a quick period of instruction. It is one thing to "miss" a salute, quite another to flat disregard it.

My two cents. Semper Fidelis/Defensor Fortis

Response by CPT Todd Jones made Jan 27 at 2015 6:21 PM

CPT Todd Jones — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:21:40 -0500

The President does it so why not? The salute is a symbol of respect. It was given as such.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 3:47 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 15:47:15 -0500

I always recall something along the lines of not saluting while driving a vehicle or in control of a vehicle due to safety concerns.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Mar 6 at 2015 10:02 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:02:45 -0500

Absolutely. Salute rendered, salute returned. I think it is very unprofessional for Officers not to return salutes...and for enlisted not to salute Officers.

Response by CPT Bruce Beattie made Mar 16 at 2015 6:29 PM

CPT Bruce Beattie — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:29:28 -0400

When in high school the old retired Colonel who was our Commandant of Cadets would even salute the parents of the cadets, particularly the moms, when they stopped to chat with him. He was a tough old bird and the commensurate gentleman. My father who was an LTC explained to me a long time ago that the salute was the highest form of greeting exchanged between soldiers. A solidier may be required by regulation to salute you and you are required by professionalism and common courtesy to acknowledge that salute. If the regulations of your service prohibit a salute they certainly don't prohibit an appropriate verbal response. Your soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen deserve that respect. I have always practiced the salute in uniform or out. I am now a 100% permanently disabled veteran. My DOD ID card is the same color as the dependents ID and very siniliar to it. It does however list my rank. Most gate guards even when they appear to read it fail to notice that. The ones that do salute. They get a "Thank you!" as well as a salute. Salute, it is the soldierly way of saying "Hello!"

Response by LT Michael Cavaggioni made May 1 at 2015 5:22 PM

LT Michael Cavaggioni — Fri, 01 May 2015 17:22:41 -0400

I am glad to have read this post because I have never been sure about what the appropriate response in civvies should be. In uniform I salute back but most of the time I am in my civvies so I would give them a wave instead. I think I am going to start saluting in my civvies because it just seems like the respectful thing to do. They deserve the same respect back that they show when they render their salute. Thanks for the post LTC.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 1 at 2015 5:40 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 01 May 2015 17:40:20 -0400

After 9-11 my unit was assigned gate guard, I did a few shifts with them, and it really messed up the saluting sometimes.

Response by Lt Col Mitch Fadem made Jun 17 at 2015 9:12 AM

Lt Col Mitch Fadem — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:12:29 -0400

I have a tan military ID. I am a 100% disabled combat vet and an officer. I did not retire so that is why I have a DAVPRM ID. My ID does have the designation O5 on it but I rarely get saluted. Why is that? The tan ID is also given to Medal of Honor recipients. I think those of us who have been injured in the line of duty, especially during combat missions actually deserves the respect of a salute. The last time I was on a base (yesterday) a SrA (3 striper) did not salute me. I asked him why? He said that he didn't have to. He only had to salute active duty or retired officers. I thought it was disrespectful.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jul 11 at 2015 7:21 PM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 19:21:47 -0400

Check "Service Etiquette", but, in the Navy and Marine Corps, we do not salute when out of uniform. A verbal greeting or thank you is appropriate, however. In uniform, yes, the appropriate response to a salute is to return it, as long as you are covered. I don't know Army traditions. Army traditions may be different.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2015 10:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 22:15:30 -0400

I was taught to always return their salute when in uniform so long as its safe when driving. (Usually not a problem since I am stopped anyway to show my ID) Sometimes even Civilian security personnel salute. i return them as well. In only common military courtesy. I was taught that military courtesy doesn't require saluting when not in uniform. In that case common courtesy of giving a friendly acknowledgement.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 11 at 2015 10:22 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 22:22:12 -0400

I was saluted by a Marine when driving through an controlled access gate at the Naval Academy years ago. I was a PFC. I think it is a way of saying, okay you're done here and you can go.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 11 at 2015 11:03 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:03:41 -0400

All do respect sir, gate guards don't really concern themselves over an officer returning a salute. It's all about moving traffic along and clearing the lanes. Speaking from experience, as long as you have your ID in hand and ready to go, the job is much easier. However, we do appreciate having the salute returned and many of the officers I encountered over my career generally return one.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jul 11 at 2015 11:15 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:15:58 -0400

I used to bring them coffee from those little coffee shacks on the way in if I had the cash.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jul 11 at 2015 11:41 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 23:41:16 -0400

LTC Vincent Stoneking,
I always return a gate guard salute whether in uniform or civvies. It's just plain coutresy whether it's in the regs or not.
Thanks for posting and excellent topic question (and photo)
Rick Ash

Response by Rick Wiseman made Jul 18 at 2015 9:09 AM

Rick Wiseman — Sat, 18 Jul 2015 09:09:42 -0400

Yes Sir. Thank you for showing the respect you do, even though you're not certain whether it is required or not... I worked Security as a Civilian for a Local National Guard Base, even as a Veteran MP I still saluted Officers that came on post. Mostly because most of them knew I was a Veteran MP. Respect is earned not given and you Sir are one of the one's that we would respect. MP's are on the receiving end of a lot of disrespect, when we receive the respect we deserve we truly appreciate it and that might just save you a ticket down the road...lol....

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2015 9:41 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 21:41:49 -0400

As a newly commissioned officer I find the salute at the gate awkward, but I will always return it out of respect. A lot of my good friends have worked the gate. It's a rough detail.

Response by SCPO Edward Westerdahl made Nov 6 at 2015 11:05 AM

SCPO Edward Westerdahl — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 11:05:46 -0500

You always return salutes. It's just good manners.

Response by LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD made Mar 29 at 2016 11:27 AM

LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:27:39 -0400

I agree with your surmise. Yes, they acknowledge you...why should you not acknowledge them. They are respecting you for your service..and sometimes your rank while in uniform...you are returning the salute because you respect their uniform and duty.

Response by SGT Kevin McCourt made Apr 5 at 2016 10:08 AM

SGT Kevin McCourt — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:08:55 -0400

The guards are required to salute you as an officer. You should return the salute. Out of respect. It goes both ways, right?

Response by GySgt William Hardy made May 19 at 2016 5:00 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Thu, 19 May 2016 17:00:48 -0400

If you are the driver, no...just nod. If you are a passenger, yes. During my active duty time, the driver had to maintain control of the vehicle and was exempt from certain protocols. People like the base commander who was chauffeured to and from work, saluted the gate guard from the backseat.

Each branch of service have different protocols. I remember a time when the driver had to stop the car, put on the emergency brake, exit the car, and stand at attention during morning and evening colors. When I was on active duty in the Corps, we stopped the car but sat at attention in the vehicle. What are the rules for each service now days?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 4:13 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:13:19 -0400

If I use my DoD ID card (I'm a Reservist) that identifies me as an officer, and it's a military guard rendering the salute, why would I not return it?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 2:26 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 14:26:39 -0400

Only if they salute you first. When I saluted the DD2220's on vehicles I would wait for the operator to return the salute or for them to drive away before I brought my hand down.

Response by COL Peter Rzeminski made Sep 11 at 2016 11:14 AM

COL Peter Rzeminski — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 11:14:35 -0400

My first experience with a gate MP was when I was 16. My dad was an officer. He always returned the salute, whether in uniform or civies. As a retired officer myself, I continue his example and always return the salute. This is after my ID card has been returned. In the very rare occasion that I am not rendered a salute by the guard, I still render a salute (to make a point).

Response by SGT Kevin McCourt made Sep 22 at 2016 1:30 PM

SGT Kevin McCourt — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:30:11 -0400

If you are saluted, you should salute back. Showing of respect goes both ways.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Oct 28 at 2016 12:23 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:23:37 -0400

A salute even going back to medieval times was a sign of respect between fighting Men. Not to return a salute is a show of disrespect to the person that rendered a salute. The salute is done with the right hand in tradition to show that hand bears no weapon as most people are right handed. Upon entering a gate to a Military installation and the gate guard salutes, return that salute if You are in uniform or not. Even walking If a junior salutes an Officer in or out of uniform under proper protocol that Officer is expected to return that salute. Any officer in civilian clothes should be saluted as long as You have the knowledge that person is an Officer. All Officers and Warrant Officers of the United State Armed Forces should be saluted as well as Officers and Warrant Officers allied with or friendly to the United States. A nod or greeting without a salute is only acceptable if both Your hands are full and returning a salute is not possible. Whenever possible the right hand should be kept free to allow a proper salute or return salute.

Indoors salutes to Officers are required only when reporting for the first time during the day. If You work with an Officer in the same office area repeat visits to His desk in the same day would not require a salute on each return trip. That first salute should of course be returned and hold You salute until it is. The reporting may be given with a phrase such as Sergeant Jones, "Reporting as Ordered" as one example. Once again not returning a salute is a sign of disrespect.

I have taught Military Customs and Courtesies to both Members of the Armed Forces as well as Cadets None of this is complicated. There is no substitute for proper respect. Take pride in that salute !

Response by PO1 Sean Reynolds made Oct 28 at 2016 2:00 PM

PO1 Sean Reynolds — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:00:55 -0400

In the Navy we don't salute while "uncovered" and inside. Technology inside a vehicle, unless you are Shore Patrol or Military Police you should have your cover on at all times

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 28 at 2016 9:50 PM

SFC George Smith — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 21:50:14 -0400

if they salute you should Return the Salute...

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Oct 31 at 2016 9:45 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 09:45:54 -0400

Never wrong as just as a courtesy...salute back...that way there is no question.

Response by PFC Timothy Clements made Nov 4 at 2016 2:37 AM

PFC Timothy Clements — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 02:37:42 -0400

I think it is a sign of respect to you, so keep on doing it. Also it shows them respect for doing what we are taught to do, even if you are in civis

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made Nov 6 at 2017 6:31 PM

PV2 Duane Schlender — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 18:31:07 -0500

Ive been out of uniform since december 2000, and i salute uniformed soldiers all the time.
My reasoning?
1) respect
2) to let them know i support them
3) i miss being in uniform

Its that simple for me.

Response by TSgt Kerry Hardy made Nov 6 at 2017 7:33 PM

TSgt Kerry Hardy — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:33:04 -0500

Well Sir, we are taught in basic that we salute an officer upon recognition then you are doing the right thing.

Response by MCPO Daniel Meffen made Nov 6 at 2017 8:06 PM

MCPO Daniel Meffen — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 20:06:58 -0500

I am a Retired E-9 from the Navy, Last summer when entering Westover AFRB in Chicopee, Ma, The Gate guard, took my ID, Checked it, returned it to me and saluted and said "Thank you for your service Master Chief" I saluted back, and said, "thank you for still serving"

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 6 at 2017 8:55 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 20:55:46 -0500

Returning a properly rendered salute, quickly and smartly is never wrong. I return the salute....I experience the same thing as a retiree going on and off Peterson AFB. Sneaking on to go to the cleaners on my lunch break.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Nov 6 at 2017 9:01 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:01:38 -0500

Any salute deserves a return salute in my book. It's a greeting among we few that represents mutual respect.

Response by PO3 Phyllis Maynard made Nov 6 at 2017 9:54 PM

PO3 Phyllis Maynard — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 21:54:24 -0500

We did. It was an acknowledgement of respect on liberty, except if one is stationed where the enemy could survey to determine the officers from the enlisted.
.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2018 1:01 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 13:01:51 -0500

As a sign of respect ... any rendered salute should be returned. Lots of the gates are now manned by civilian contract security, so its not an issue. I've driven on MCAS Beaufort SC to stop by the Exchange. The USMC guard saluted me on the way in and gave a pleasant "Welcome, Colonel!" ... and as I was driving off-base about 20 minutes later, he saw my car, stopped what he was doing, faced my car and saluted as I drove off base! That's never happened before, but then they are Marines!

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Dec 17 at 2018 11:21 AM

CPT Brad Wilson — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:21:44 -0500

I was told as a young PFC and ROTC Cadet When in doubt whip it out. I have always returned a salute given by a gate guard

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Dec 25 at 2018 10:07 PM

1stSgt Jeff Blovat — Tue, 25 Dec 2018 22:07:40 -0500

Keep both hands on the wheel at all times on base.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Dec 29 at 2018 8:33 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:33:58 -0500

When I go on Dobbins AFB,and am usually in civilian clothing, I always get a salute. They have everyone stop and check their ID care. I thank them for the job that they are doing.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 30 at 2018 12:00 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:00:18 -0500

Once that gate Guard has checked Your ID and identified You as an officer, Yes You should return that salute and it makes no difference if Your in or out of uniform. The respect is a two way thing, the Gate Guard saluted an officer and not to return that salute is improper and disrespectful. Continue returning those salutes as You have been doing, that is the proper thing to do.

Response by SGT Perry Spencer made Dec 30 at 2018 7:10 AM

SGT Perry Spencer — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 07:10:00 -0500

Sir, I am sure you know the rules but here is a extract from the UCMJ to refresh your memory. I agree with you. (SALUTE!)

Military courtesy is an extension and a formalization of courtesies practiced in a culture's everyday life. It is intended to reinforce discipline and the chain of command by defining how soldiers will treat their superiors and vice versa. They are also thought to enhance esprit de corps.

Some military courtesies include proper forms of address ("Sir", "Ma'am", "Mister") and when each should be used; the salute, and the related concept of standing at attention; proper wear of military headgear; obeisance; and the rules for behavior in various ceremonies. Specifics can vary depending on an individual's rank, location, and circumstances. A military funeral, for example, requires stricter etiquette than on a normal day. Courtesies are sometimes relaxed under battlefield conditions; officers may discourage salutes in combat areas to avoid making themselves a target for snipers. Indeed in the United States of America as well as some Commonwealth nations, it is forbidden to salute both indoors and in "the field," even snipers are likely to pick out officer targets watching for salutes.

There are military customs that have specific purposes. In the United States Navy, "bracing" is the practice of bracing one's self against the bulkhead (wall) at the position of attention as a superior officer walks by.

The practice arose because of the narrow passageways on ships. Since officers may need to quickly move about the ship, sailors would get out of the officer's way by bracing. The tradition has extended to include the corridors and hallways of buildings (depending on the situation), and it is mostly an obeisance, but it still serves a useful purpose aboard ships (especially submarines).

According to Field Manual 7-21.13 4-4, "Courtesy among members of the Armed Forces is vital to maintain military discipline. Military courtesy means good manners and politeness in dealing with other people. Courteous behavior provides a basis for developing good human relations. The distinction between civilian and military courtesy is that military courtesy was developed in a military atmosphere and has become an integral part of serving in uniform.". Military courtesy has been established, over the years, to establish and maintain order and structure that is the backbone of the military.

Military courtesies may also be adopted by paramilitary organizations.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Dec 30 at 2018 9:36 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:36:56 -0500

Demonstration of mutual respect.

Response by Louis Williams made Dec 30 at 2018 5:22 PM

Louis Williams — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:22:56 -0500

During my enlistment term, saluting a non-commissioned officer was a disrespect to that officer and you were reprimanded on the spot. Commissioned officers were the only rank and filed that expected a salute especially from non commissioned officers and from commissioned officers depending upon the rank and file when about to pass or in the first presence of such rank. Non commissioned officers started at 2nd lieutenant and warrant officer. Guard duty or any duty of non commissioned officers was viewed as a privilege to serve, not as an opportunity to be recognized. We honored the position and/or rank before the person applied to it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2019 2:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:10:52 -0500

I always do. ( When I as a butter bar; I asked a friend who was prior enlisted security forces, he said they think your a dick if you don't...) So since then, its been 10 years I a salute every time.

Response by COL Jon Lopey made Mar 8 at 2019 10:29 PM

COL Jon Lopey — Fri, 08 Mar 2019 22:29:03 -0500

COL: I always return a salute when it is rendered, even from a vehicle. I always make it a crisp salute as well. I am usually in civilian attire too since I am retired. It may be "old school" but that was the way I was taught. COL L

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2019 7:05 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:05:27 -0400

Why not return it? You’re acknowledging and respecting their effort to render a salute and it’s nothing more than an arm movement for you.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made May 26 at 2019 6:56 PM

SSG Jess Peters — Sun, 26 May 2019 18:56:31 -0400

A salute should be returned unless safety makes rendering it a hazard. Subordinates should always salute superior officers no matter the manner of dress. We are soldiers 24/7 We are never truly off duty.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2019 6:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:46:13 -0400

Sir, I always return a salute that is rendered to me. I think it would be rude to not return the salute. As a new 2LT in the reserves, I was put at the gate my first drill. A cocky 1LT pulled up to the gate and I saluted him, his response was “come on bro” then proceeded to drive off accelerating at a ridiculous pace which in turn led him to crashing into a barrier. Karma...

Response by MAJ Michael Rieker made Dec 12 at 2019 4:51 PM

MAJ Michael Rieker — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:51:45 -0500

You may not be “required“ to return the salute while in the vehicle, but many soldiers unfortunately view the salute as a sign of subservience, and they try to avoid doing it whenever they are not “required”. I wish everyone would be the salute as the earned privilege to show mutual respect for a fellow soldier. Therefore, I will always return the salute, whether I am in a vehicle, in uniform, in civvies, whatever.

Response by SPC John Decker made Dec 12 at 2019 5:20 PM

SPC John Decker — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:20:01 -0500

Without knowing the regs., at this point in time, I would say the guards are required to salute officers, whether in uniform or not. Because they recognize the respect the rank demands. Returning that salute, whether or not you are in uniform, is a recognition of the respect due their position.

Response by SSG Harper Peterson made Dec 12 at 2019 6:03 PM

SSG Harper Peterson — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 18:03:32 -0500

It’s a common courtesy, and is (at least was) in the manual as a subordinate salutes you, you then render a salute. Because technically speaking, a subordinate can’t recover from the salute until the Officer returns his/hers.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2019 6:50 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 18:50:47 -0500

In the Air Force, you return the salute. I’m not sure if it’s in the AFIs or not, but it’s the accepted display of mutual respect. From the Army posts I’ve been to, it seems they do the same thing. That being said, every Sailor and Marine I know are shocked that any officer would return a salute while in civilian clothing, so I’m guessing the custom varies from branch to branch. If you’re ever in doubt, just return the salute: you’re never going to be wrong by being too respectful.

Response by MCPO Daniel Meffen made Dec 19 at 2020 6:16 PM

MCPO Daniel Meffen — Sat, 19 Dec 2020 18:16:29 -0500

I always do, and as a MMCM, USN, Ret , do not rate one, but the respect is there, and I return it!!

Response by SSG Jason Penn made Dec 20 at 2020 1:01 AM

SSG Jason Penn — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 01:01:42 -0500

Sir, I cannot respond regarding all services, I can only speak about the Army. IAW AR 600-25 Salutes, Honors, and Courtesy, Chapter 2, Paragraph 2-1, Section i states:
Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical.
(4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation.

So to answer your question, you are not required to return the salute if you are in civilian attire as claimed. However, being not required does not mean that it is forbidden. If you feel like it is appropriate to return the salute, then by all means feel free to do so.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2020 2:35 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 02:35:22 -0500

Nothing says, "Im a great officer," like not returning a salute.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Dec 21 at 2021 3:12 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 15:12:02 -0500

If a gate guard salutes me, I salute back even if I was just an NCO. I'm retired now, they can call me "sir". I don't work for living anymore.

Response by PO2 Bill Kuiper made Dec 23 at 2021 9:03 PM

PO2 Bill Kuiper — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 21:03:17 -0500

A salute rendered requires a return salute. I have a great story about this.