Should WLC be attended before you make SGT?

SSG Philip Cotton — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:28:38 -0500

I have seen many SPC's promoted to SGT without any WLC and they seem vastly under prepared for leadership. Do you think that WLC should be attended before a SPC is eligible to make SGT?

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 30 at 2013 9:31 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:31:03 -0500

I think it should be a requirement.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 30 at 2013 9:35 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:35:46 -0500

Yes. This should be a prerequisite to any board attendance.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 30 at 2013 10:02 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:02:43 -0500

Based on my experience with WLC, I don't think so. I don't know what it was like for others but I learned nothing exceptional from WLC. It was a good experience but I already knew most of the curriculum.
I should add however that I went when it was only two weeks so maybe that's why.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 10:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:24:02 -0500

As a soldier who went to WLC as a SGT, I say yes!

I also say get rid of SP4, and replace it with CPL.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 10:40 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:40:46 -0500

I would like to see all SPC's get a chance to attend WLC prior to even being considered for SGT. This would permit many SPC's to get training which would help their channel evaluate them for promotion or further development. It would also help create a better base of knowledge going into promotion to E-5. We can all think of times where E-4's have been forced to step up to act in the same manner as a NCO. This training would help them succeed versus fail. My personal policy is that I will send every NQ SGT first, but I want every SPC that I can to be enrolled in WLC. Some will self-eliminate by not even taking care of SSD-1.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2013 10:55 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:55:58 -0500

My experience from a bygone era at PLDC, and from NCOES in general, was that if you learned a lot, you probably shouldn't have been there. I'll go step further and say that if you experience a career enhancing revelation via SSD, you should probably be doing something else.

Response by MSG Martinis Butler made Dec 31 at 2013 12:00 AM

MSG Martinis Butler — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:00:41 -0500

Not necessarily, granted if they are able to attend WLC sure let them go but don't deprive that young SPC who's in Afghanistan serving as that squad leader of getting promoted

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2014 4:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 04:40:18 -0500

Well IMO SPC Cotton, Leaders aren't born at WLC, so no. A true Leader is just that and WLC won't make or break that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 2:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:08:21 -0500

Absolutely! Under the current rules however, you dont have to complete WLC until you are ready to be promoted to SSG. It is completely insane.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 10:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:11:39 -0500

Depending where you are at I have heard that you will not be recommended to the board if you don't have WLC. I have seen SSG's getting promoted while in WLC.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 2:58 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 02:58:36 -0500

The down and dirty is that our current standard on NCOES allows a Soldier to get promoted and not attend NCOES until it is too late. Let's go back to the old times and reset the standard that you must attend NCOES before being promoted. It worked then and I am sure you wouldn't have SGTs or SSGs walking around not wanting to go to NCOES and still wearing the rank.

Because the Army and we as Leaders have let this continue we have a serious backlog of promoted NCOs that have to go to NCOES. I open up my Battalion OML list and the WLC tab has tons of SGTs, ALC has tons of SSGs and SLC has a few SFCs.

If we made WLC a requirement before you made SGT, ALC before SSG and SLC before SFC I am sure the schools would teach you more because you were getting the training before you got promoted.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 3:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 03:19:47 -0500

I just pinned SGT a week ago and I haven't been to WLC. I had 34 months TIS and 16 months TIG. I worked my butt off to get that as well. However, I am wanting to go to WLC and would have in March but due to funding WLC was cancelled for a month. Under the latest changes on this subject doesn't a SGT have to attend WLC within a year of their DOR or their rank is taken? I am not sure of the Milper Mesg # of that but am almost sure I have seen it. If I find it, I will post it on here.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2014 9:30 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2014 09:30:01 -0500

I absolutely think that a soldier should be required to complete WLC and ALC before being promoted to SGT or SSG. The Army used to do this and is beginning to transition back to a select, train, and promote promotion system. I have always thought the biggest problem with NCOES is not what we are teaching but the audience we are selection to teach. WLC should be for a SPC, ALC for a SGT, SLC for a SSG because most leaders when selected to attend ALC or SLC have already been performing in the job for months if not years before attending.

Response by SPC(P) Delcina Myers made Mar 14 at 2014 11:27 PM

SPC(P) Delcina Myers — Fri, 14 Mar 2014 23:27:26 -0400

I haven't taken WLC yet, as I was just promoted to SPC... But honestly, I don't think a soldier should have to take WLC, especially if they have deployed. A deployment should be training enough. Isn't that how the "old army" used to be?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2014 11:10 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:10:15 -0400

A short answer, no.

Longer answer: SPC should be the pre-requisite for CPL (sort of like a E-4a/E-4b) with CPL being the pre-requisite for attending a promotion board.

My problem is with the rank of SPC. Too many people get the rank by simply having a degree or simply sitting at AIT(like myself) and hitting the automatic promotion TIS pre-req. CPL should be earned based on merit and the ability to lead.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Mar 15 at 2014 12:32 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:32:54 -0400

In my opinion, yes. WLC is the training class that teaches someone how to lead, be a leader. It is a disservise in my opinion to promote to SGT without is. I also believe that ALC, SLC, 1SG course and SMA should be required prior to promotion to these ranks. I am a CSM and going to SMA now. It is difficult to do my job as a CSM while I am learning to be a CSM. Some of the things taught to me at the academy I could have used a year ago when I was promoted, but at the time, didnt have that knowlege in my tool kit. It is just better all around for that leader to have the training prior to having the responsibility. Just my opinion

Response by SSG James Seets made Mar 15 at 2014 12:39 PM

SSG James Seets — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:39:20 -0400

I do think that IOT be promoted to E-5 that soldiers should go through WLC first, however I do no feel like WLC is what sets young soldiers up to be leaders. This preperation comes from their leadership setting them up with everything that they need to be good leaders. Poor leaders tent to breed more poor leaders. This is not always the case but sadly it is more than not. Team leaders should be taking these E-4's under their wings and getting them ready for the next step.

Response by MSG Gene Potocki made Mar 15 at 2014 12:59 PM

MSG Gene Potocki — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:59:41 -0400

1SG Anthony R., Made a very good point when I was still on active duty it was a requirement to have the appropriate level of NCOES prior to promotion. An example when you packet went to the E-7 board. If you did not get selected for promotion, they looked at selection for ANCOC (can tell how old I am). Normally you got selected for schooling then the next year you normally made the promotion list.

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2014 4:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 04:32:54 -0400

I believe they should go back to the way it was, WLC before promotion. 30 day course, locked down. makes you pay more attention to what you are doing vs watching the clock waiting for final formation. And as was said in another comment, you may know everything they have to offer, but if you don't it is a great place to learn. I know SGTs who have been E5's for 3-4 years and never attended WLC who think that they are the is all end all of the Army. A lot of the time, they were completely the opposite. Ruling through fear and intimidation rather than leadership and knowledge. WLC doesn't have all of the answers, and after graduating, you might still not be the best NCO. But at least you have been taught the standards and given the resources to be better.

Response by SFC Kayla Sondrol made Apr 1 at 2014 4:37 PM

SFC Kayla Sondrol — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 16:37:49 -0400

I am definitely late to the party, but I will add some content.

I went to WLC as a 5 and I felt like a sheisse-bag the entire time. My leadership skills were non-existant since I had many toxic leaders before going. I never truly knew what was correct, even though I tried to teach myself. But after completing WLC I felt much better about my confidence to lead soldiers, teach them, and allow for them to grow.

So to answer your question, YES WLC should be attended before you make SGT. I think it is bad enough that you can get to E6 without attending WLC, but a waiver is required.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 8:21 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 20:21:37 -0400

For myself I cannot agree with this because I made my 5 without wlc and I do just fine, but I do feel that it is necessary for some E-4's that are promotable or about to be promotable I feel it should be on a case by case basis.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2014 2:31 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 02:31:44 -0400

Presently waiting for classes to start. Considering the level of professionalism expected of our leaders, WLC is a valuable too and required. Though some leaders are born, the level of efficiency demanded can not be undermined. SGT is just a name to me. It's when one is given an office or leadership role that the rank really count. Some make the rank but r of no difference to a private. It is the person that u r........ Leadership is personality!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 7:07 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 07:07:05 -0500

From a training and quality of leadership perspective yes I do agree this should be a prerequisite for promotion to SGT. In the same breath if it were made a prerequisite the requirement becomes to ensure we maintain increased courses to allow maximum opportunity for those that want to take the action to promote!

Response by SPC Lukas Jones made Mar 19 at 2015 4:33 AM

SPC Lukas Jones — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:33:57 -0400

I think so. I do know that my current unit will demote any E-5 who has been in that grade for more than a year and has not gone to WLC. However, most of our E-4s have gone to WLC already and many E-3s have completed SSD1.

But Brigades really don't like seeing anyone lower than E-4 hanging around so that might be why.