Should we raise the age of enlistment eligibility? Would we have a stronger more mature force?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 23:15:10 -0500

We've all had the conversation about 18 year olds being allowed to fight in a combat environment but return home and are still not considered responsible enough to own a handgun or drink a beer with his father/buddies.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Feb 28 at 2014 11:21 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 23:21:33 -0500

Unfortunately, age does not equal maturity. The enlistment pool to choose from is already shallow...taking away 100s of thousands of potential enlistees would not be a good idea.

Response by CCMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2014 6:44 PM

CCMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 18:44:12 -0500

Agree with MSG Quick, age doesn't necessarily equate to maturity.

Though I think joining the Armed Forces and serving your country does grow your maturity through the discipline, respect, and values you learn through that service!

However, I understand your point, SSG McEleney... in my humble opinion, I beleive if you're old enough to serve in combat in a foreign land and risk your life to die for your country and American's freedom, then you're old enough for more responsibility than I'd say... given to your average "18 year old adult." (but cannot advocate any of our young enlisted to break the law, i.e. drink underage/own a handgun... even though I've issued plenty of Berreta's to my Airmen across the pond... the irony)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2014 8:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 20:32:56 -0500

No. We just need to stop being so overtly sensitive about everything and worrying about all the PC BS. Let JNR NCOs enforce discipline again without threatening and scaring them every time they turn around. Better they get them, let the Drill Sergeant do their jobs again. Trying to take stress out of IET environments is the exact opposite if anything close to the right answer. All of these things, these failures of responsible leadership, have lead to the current lax and immature state of our Army. Coyote those faults of ours with the current state of American society and therefore, our recruiting pool and nobody should be surprised by it. We don't need older recruits, we need to toughen back up and be quick about it.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2014 9:29 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 21:29:15 -0500

I do not think raising the enlistment age is necessarily the answer. However, I do think there should be a minimum age for becoming a NCO.  I say this because we have kids (and they are) doing 2 years in service and then have stripes slapped on them.  Now I am not saying that ALL young NCOs are ineffective, but I do believe that some additional "maturing" time is in order.  My "lightbulb" didn't come on until 23.  Before then, everything was about drinking and chasing women.  I think the answer is to go back to what worked-- the "old school Army" that many senior NCOs and Officers speak about after breathing a dejected sigh.  Allow NCOs to discipline Soldiers when required.  Stop coddling Soldiers, because our enemies surely have not and will not.  Start holding Soldiers accountable for their actions again.  When Soldiers of any age realize that there are consequences for their actions, they will either start toeing the line or will be out.  These days, we cannot afford to carry deadweight anymore.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2014 11:28 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 23:28:03 -0500

From a purely practical point of view, if we raised the age of enlistment to 21, we just erased and entire category of UCMJ trouble - underage drinking. I can't speak for all services, but I can tell you it hits the Air Force hard.

Do I think raising the age would result in a more mature force? Definitely not. I think personal values and ethics are more important than an age.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 8:09 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 08:09:31 -0500

I've had a 30year old pvt that was worse than one of my 18 year olds. Age don't make a person more mature

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 11:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:23:26 -0500

No, I believe we need to stay competitive with the pool of potential enlistees we have. England allows enlistment at 16 1/2 and I'm sure other countries do as well.

Response by MSG Gene Potocki made Mar 4 at 2014 11:31 AM

MSG Gene Potocki — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 11:31:41 -0500

I enlisted at 17 1/2, turned 18 while in AIT. you could drink off post in the south back in the late 70's. But we also got our a** skinned daily by the Drill Sergeants. they were an "Evil Breed" back then :-) The Army offered me the chance to jump out of planes what teenager wouldn't want to do that?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 6:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:23:21 -0500

No. The pool of citizens eligible to join the military is too small as it is. To reduce that number further would be a mistake in my opinion.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2014 10:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 22:32:33 -0500

I think if we raise the age we will lower the quality of those who sign up. Many of the go getters who would have joined right out of school will go find jobs and be doing fairly well by the time they turn 21. Those who can't get or keep a job will look to the military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 2:07 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 02:07:03 -0500

Personally. During peacetime, when all branches lower their numbers, it should be 21. Quit kicking people out who have experience. Just slow the intake. At 21 you no longer need to worry about underage drinking in the military. You get recruits that have spent time in the private sector and they've realized what they really need/want in life. I spent two years going to college before I had to drop out to help support my family. I racked up a lot of debt because my car broke down, I started working a second job to pay off my college debt. When I joined, I was grateful for the lessons and assistance the Army gave. Right out of high school I didn't know what I wanted to do. All through Basic and AIT, many of the ones straight out of high school were complaining about "how hard it was, and that they weren't getting what they "needed". But from my experience outside of a school setting and having to make it on my own, I was very grateful and knew that the accommodations of not having to pay rent, not worrying where my next meal was going to be from. Having a steady paycheck with regular hours, plus health and dental access. I knew how to prepare my own taxes. I notice from soldiers who go from high school where parents provided all the necessities, to the military, where all the necessities were provided. Once they got out in their early twenties with the skills and experiences to start a career, but not the ability to take care of themselves as a civilian because now they have to provide that for themselves. Definitely raise the standards on enlistment and lower the numbers of needed recruits, but for the military to start pushing people out who've had wartime experience and excelled at their job and shone as a soldier is not needed. Those are the people you want to keep to train new soldiers so when the next war comes along, you don't have an army that has no experience in fighting a war. And when said war comes rolling in. Lower the enlistment age back down the 18.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 1:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:25:48 -0500

I know a couple Soldier's that came into the Army when they were in their Thirties. They are pretty much at the same level as some of the 18-22 year olds that I know. Age makes no difference.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2014 1:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:27:28 -0500

100% AGREE!! I think that if you look at our current situation and raise the age limit to 21 you can make some radical changes in the way our society is. First, by doing so, people such as myself, cant just leave college and go join the military. You force them to have to take a long hard look at their options. Plus it gives the individual time to make sure that right out of high school this is what they really want to do. You give them a chance to mature, by a few years which could be significant. I know there are all sorts of reasons not to raise it, but with us needing less people to come in or retain, it would make it more competitive and give the people seeking a challenge of joining the service or the want to join the service the ability to tak time to reflect on the decision and gain some other life experiences that could come in handy. Maybe that kid who wanted join finds out that he is really good at electrical work and decides to stay in that field or realizes while working in that field that he is a better fit for a job in turning wrenches. They might not just walk into the military completely blind because they have a better understanding of what they might be good at. It would also give people who graduate high school and have trouble finding a job, a little more appreciation for what they have. I think its a great idea worth considering.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 27 at 2014 4:20 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:20:02 -0400

Are we talking about keeping the minimum age at 18 and raising the enlistment age from its current top end? Or are we talking about raising the lower end of the enlistment age? This question can be construed both ways and is somewhat confusing to me. Please help me to understand the true meaning of this question. Thanks

Response by SPC Jonathan Nagy made Oct 13 at 2016 1:57 PM

SPC Jonathan Nagy — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 13:57:45 -0400

I joined when I was 17- deployed shortly after turning 18 I can tell you right now age isn't the problem it starts with basic and ends with the new army bowing to this new softer less strict way of life. Basic training Was designed to break a civilian down and remold them into a solder, high stress both physically and mentally, sleep deprivation getting smoked the shit out of for no reason for hrs on end and obey orders without question. And for the hard learners who couldn't get rid of their street aditudes a little back room wall to wall councilling was the last stick effort to turn a shit bag into an effective soldier. Now? You can't yell at Joe, you can't smoke Joe, you can't displine joe hell you can't even say mean things to joe. Civilians are going into basic and coming out still civilians. My Bragg brother is right about maturity but also being on Bragg he knows as well as I do that there are plenty of immature 30 yro soldiers as there are kids. But again I agree with his statement as I felt the same, I was a career specialist by choice. I was brought up in bravo 2/504 and learned that an NCO should be competent and confident in their job, I should know my MOS just as well if not better than those I lead. I was a slow learner, if I hadn't changed MOS's I felt I was finally ready when I hit my 4th year as infantry. Then I went aviation never got to learn my job so I dean out of time I could stay in lol. When I first joined there was discipline we were trained and damn good. Now training is shit and there is no discipline and you wanna blame age? No blame yourselves for failing these could have been good soldiers, blame yourselves for bowing to a nation that's killing itself. Now because the only form of punishment is art 15's and characters we force out some many people that coulda made excellent soldiers if only they had had that needed tough love. And many good soldiers get fed up watching the army grow weak and get out because they know that no matter how long they stayed in they couldn't change a thing. Our government has committed treason on the US by completely crippling our military. So many new soldier so weak that if shit went sideways the would freeze up and get those who didn't killed. The government gave you an order of treason and our generals obeyed saying it's fresh its new it'll build a better stronger army instead it's like poisoning a cities water supply. Tougher standards, and get back to breaking civilians in basic, let NCO's do their fucking jobs again instead of making them glorified privates like they have become. It's the god damned military, stop letting the faint of heart join only the strong and courageous should pass the bar the ones with the heart to beat all odds and hell I was one of those, I lost 65 lbs in basic 2 days in I didn't think my lard as had a snowballs chance in hell of making it. I gave it my literal everything and passed the bar somehow. Shit like that people who will give there all for the military not these brats who won't even do their jobs

Response by PFC Bradley Campbell made Oct 13 at 2016 4:12 PM

PFC Bradley Campbell — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:12:19 -0400

there needs to be raising the age where the cutoff is. there are many people in great physical condition and health who are over age currently who can still serve and contribute. they have years of experience and leadership that can dilute the idiotic things in the military. and yes, some things need to be changed. and i am not talking obama's social engineering. and yes, that needs to be obliterated.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2016 7:43 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 19:43:43 -0400

90 percent of my applicants are 19 or under.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Nov 13 at 2016 7:45 PM

SPC James Anderson — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:45:45 -0500

To bad our society has gotten to the point where we no longer think 18 year olds are mature. That has not been a problem for any generation prior to this.

Response by SSgt Terry Snyder made Nov 13 at 2016 7:46 PM

SSgt Terry Snyder — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:46:24 -0500

NO THE AGE LIMIT SHOULD NOT BE RAISED BY AGE 20 I WAS IN VIET NAM ON AN AC130 FLYING THE HO CHI MIN TRAIL GETTING SHOT AT AND SHOOTING BACK... YOUR EXPERIENCES ARE WHAT MAKES YOU WHO YOU ARE..GRANTED SOME PEOPLE HAVE MORE EXPERIENCES THAN OTHERS BUT TO SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE SOME ONE IS NOT A CERTAIN AGE MAKES THEM UNABLE TO PERFORM IS A GROSS MISJUDGEMENT. WAS MY JOB AS AN NCO TO GET THEM READY NOT EXPECT THEM TO BE READY. TRAIN TRAIN AND MORE TRAINING IS WHAT GETS THEM TO PERFORM TO YOUR EXPECTATIONS .....

Response by 1stSgt Nelson Kerr made Nov 14 at 2016 1:27 AM

1stSgt Nelson Kerr — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:27:49 -0500

If you want to increase quality raise the minimum scores requires to to limit entrance to an AFQT of 70 at a minimum, then at least you have fewer worries about the simply stupid,

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 8:02 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:02:42 -0500

I was 17 when I enlisted. I made E-3 and E-4 the first time eligible. I was then selected for the Airmen's Education and Commissioning Program (AECP), finish my college degree and was commissioned. I think that represents a fairly successful service.

Raising the age would have prevented me from enlistment and I probably would have found a civilian job instead. The Air Force, would have lost that service.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 1:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:01:01 -0500

Look, if you can't legally DRINK ALCOHOL until you are 21, then you probably SHOULD NOT enlist until then also....however, that being said, there are SOME mature 18 year olds in the armed services...key word here 'some'....I think the age should be increased in my honest opinion.

Response by Isaiah Gullick made Dec 14 at 2016 4:21 AM

Isaiah Gullick — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 04:21:22 -0500

As 18-year-olds, they have not yet fully matured. However, being drafted into the army could keep their health safer by protecting them from tobacco, alcohol, and drug usage.