Should we get Promotion Points for past deployments again?

2016-01-15T10:17:43-05:00

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jan 15 at 2016 10:34 AM

2016-01-15T10:34:31-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I think Soldiers should get promotion points, deployments are hard to come on, with the withdrawal in forces in effect. Deployment points shows devotion to duty in a combat scenario.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-01-15T10:50:24-05:00

I wonder why someone decided that my time in the desert counts for nothing, simply to make the playing field easier for those that haven't deployed?

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jan 15 at 2016 12:50 PM

2016-01-15T12:50:03-05:00

I'm neutral on this. Not because I'm out, but have been on the receiving end when someone else complained about how points were unfairly given, and it was changed then to support them. On the flip, if someone constantly volunteers are they doing it to be promoted, running away from something, and how would both of those affect his/her performance downrange? I damn sure wouldn't want some Joe chasing points and awards to be telling me what to do (even though I'd do it anyways). He/She isn't helping the "Team" but is allowing the Team to help them in their careers.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:00 PM

2016-01-15T14:00:29-05:00

I think that deployments should grant points because the experience is absolutely invaluable. It is proving and validating all that training in the big game.
Schools and medals and PT are great and all, but nothing like the real mc coy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:46 PM

2016-01-15T14:46:58-05:00

I think they should be awarded. It's not just "Showing up" it's gaining valuable experience from said deployment. Many of us who have deployed will experience a lot more things that you can't just get from a garrison setting. Interacting with foreign locals,different allied militia, actual combat experience, etc... The point is now that we are downsizing and limiting our deployment rates these skills and knowledge acquired are a rare commodity. I'm starting to see more and more peers who quite frankly have no idea what its like to be in a operational like environment. So id say the points should be merited.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 15 at 2016 3:03 PM

2016-01-15T15:03:47-05:00

No dog in the fight on this one, being out, and not having promotion points tied to deployments as a Marine.

But my personal stance would be "You don't choose where Uncle Sam sends you."

Now, that said, don't various badges and medals offer points toward promotion, such as the CAB/CIB/CMB? If so, wouldn't that be "Double dipping?" Additionally, time in grade & time in service offer points (iirc. They do for Marines.) Finally, as we get into evaluations, theoretically Deployment & Combat Experience will lead to higher Evaluation which "should" improve points as well.

These issues "should" self correct any points needed from requiring deployment points, if the system isn't inherently inflated already. If the system is inflated, then adding additional points to it will just make things worse in both the short and long term, requiring an eventual "reset." (I can show how the math works if needed, since it's simple statistical shifting of bodies).

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 15 at 2016 3:07 PM

2016-01-15T15:07:58-05:00

This may be an unpopular opinion SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, but I didn't think that promotion points should have been awarded for deployments in the first place. While the vast majority of Soldiers have been deployed and gained points, there were those who were not as "fortunate" and did not deploy. This could have been for a myriad of reasons and I know there are numerous threads dedicated to that topic. My point is that the old promotion point system afforded points that could be attained by all Soldiers (PT, weapons, military education, civilian education, awards, board points and CDRs recommendation). Deployment points could not be attained by all Soldiers and therefore left some at a disadvantage. Again, just my opinion. I do need to caveat though, "Big Army" did not consult me before making any of the changes to the promotion point system. ;)

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 15 at 2016 3:29 PM

2016-01-15T15:29:18-05:00

The question is: Should you get promotion points for deployments: My answer is no. Why, it starts down a slippery slope. Next will be the DMZ in Korea, or Sinai duty, how about some one who does an Antarctic tour? Then next thing you know you have diluted the system so much it will be revamped again. Now did you get an award for that deployment? Did you get any education while on deployment? Did you improve your skills to be better than your contemporaries who did not deploy?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-01-16T10:31:28-05:00

I do agree that deployment experience is invaluable, and it definitely is an important factor when determining a leaders ability. However, and I think this may be how the army views this as well, some soldiers don't get the opportunities to deploy as rapidly as others. In my situation, I've been stationed at fort bliss, in 2/1AD, a non deployable/ training brigade. So for the first three years of my career I had absolutely no chance of deploying, even after numerous 4187s submitted to move to another brigade on the post. After my three years there I was assigned to 5-15 CAV, the 19D basic training unit. So for another three years, I won't have the opportunity to deploy. None of which is the fault of me avoiding deployments. Just the luck of the draw. It's kind of like how ranger school was closed for female soldiers until recently. That's 50 points that men had the ability to earn over their female counterparts. I think the army is just trying to make the promotion system fair thievery one, regardless of their situation.

Response by SFC Alfonso Moore made Jan 17 at 2016 1:56 AM

2016-01-17T01:56:09-05:00

no why should you.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-01-17T15:44:50-05:00

I was enlisted for about 12 1/2 years (precursor for the WOJG chimining in about enlisted matters). Ultimately I think it got to a point where almost too much "counted". I hate to say another branch has it "right" but the Air Force system, provided it hasn't changed much from my last understanding of it years ago, is almost neutral to favoring things that ultimately come down to "where the cards fall". So many of the added "points" grin this or that help one, hurt another, and is inevitably "unfair" to someone. Many great comments here, but they're seems to be a counter to each one that is equally fair. That's telling. It brings to light that just like trying to find a device for everything possible on the uniforn (ribbon, badge, something sewn on for anything), in the end it mostly seems to cancel out given another variable that favors another set of MOS'. Time to go back to basics I think and start weeding out some of the extras, and I think we'll see things become more "fair" across the board again. You don't choose to deploy (for the most part), the cards generally fall so that the Army puts you in a place that's "up next". Yes, it is indeed a very general statement, and that's how the promotion system should be. VERY GENERAL, but start bringing it back into the hands of leadership and commands to decide, at the unit level, who they believe is promotable. Class and school huntong for arbitrary classes or Army course with now bearing on your MOS in order to be "competative" anymore doesn't do the Army any favors. Bum rushing boards with filling slots in mind doesn't cut it. SGM's demanding a number of people on a list to go to a particular board (be ot promotion, soldier/nco of the month, etc) doesn't do the Army as a whole a favor. Let's get back to those basic fundamentals for the big picture, and those character traits for the command level. Then maybe we can go back to bitching about kiss-asses or platoom sergeant pets getting favoritism. Sometime will always complain is all I'm saying there. I could rant on but I digress.

Response by SGT James Rosier made Jan 18 at 2016 5:48 PM

2016-01-18T17:48:22-05:00

I'm going to have to agree with it. It's always more reassuring to know that your superiors have actually deployed and have that experience to lead compared to the leader that hasn't. All that have deployed know and can feel how much they have progressed as a person because of it. I feel as if it makes you better in what you do and earns more respect as a leader. So yes I think deployments should give points, giving those a better chance to become leaders. A chance to spread their experiences and knowledge among their soldiers.

Response by SSgt Bordelon Guillen made Jan 18 at 2016 7:33 PM

2016-01-18T19:33:09-05:00

I do not know how other branches conduct 'business' as far as promotions go... In 'my neck of the woods' however, it is EXPECTED for ALL to Deploy and then Deploy and when you get back... Deploy (want to stop Deploying? THEN GET OUT AT EAS)! I spent HALF of my 21 years DEPLOYED (MEU's, Training, Combat, Humanitarian, and ANY OTHER DAMNED THING THAT CAME ALONG) if you don't like it THEN GET OUT! Other generations of my Family (in other branches) spent their ENTIRE enlistments overseas. Either you want to do what you are doing or you do not... Promotions should NEVER be the deciding factor, YOU EITHER LOVE WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR NOT! Leave the bitching to the civilians, either be a professional or become a bitch...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2017 6:48 PM

2017-06-23T18:48:10-04:00

Deployments really don't tell how competent someone is. I think we should start testing tactical and MOS related competency.