Should we drop a MOAB on Bagram Air Base on our way out? Should we use smaller ordinance to destroy all the other base's we have built?

2021-08-29T20:10:50-04:00

It's clear that the so called Afghan Army lacks the patriotism and love of country to fight for it. After nearly 20 years of training they can't even do a simple "jumping jack"! It's my opinion that we bugged out to suddenly but the Afghan Army should still have pick up the torch and fought for their country...they shouldn't have to depend to the help from other countries. They are all running around like chickens with their heads cut off in fear of the Taliban and others. They are so afraid they try clinging to the side of a C-17 and eventually fall to their deaths. I ask you, wouldn't it be better to fight with all your might than to do something akin to suicide. If you thought you were gonna die anyway wouldn't that give you the courage to fight back even stronger? This is just one veterans opinion and you know what they say about opinions, "opinions are like assholes everybody has one",

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 29 at 2021 8:15 PM

2021-08-29T20:15:39-04:00

They are more likely to hurt themselves with the toys we left behind Let KIZZ IZZ and the Talibanians go at it

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2021 8:54 PM

2021-08-29T20:54:18-04:00

I agree with this plan, as it would prevent them from using these weapons against us.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Aug 29 at 2021 9:03 PM

2021-08-29T21:03:10-04:00

No we shouldn't because then you're just killing innocent people who never asked for any of this. Most of the people in Afghanistan outside the cities just want to live their lives how they want to live them. They didn't ask for the US to come in. They don't want the government we have. They have a different culture and mindset. They just want to be left alone to live - left alone by the Taliban, the US, everyone.

So no we don't need to be dropping any bombs anywhere anymore. Have we not learned in the history of our existence that bombing things doesn't solve a fucking thing? Have we not learned in 20 years in Afghanistan and everyone else who went there before us that no amount of military might is going to matter in Afghanistan? FFS people - they aren't going to be able to maintain half the stuff the ANA abandoned. They can't operate most of it. So no I'm not worried about them "using it against" us.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Aug 29 at 2021 9:34 PM

2021-08-29T21:34:25-04:00

I like your opinion and say we let the Taliban get comfortable at Bagram and then bomb the shit out of them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2021 9:58 PM

2021-08-29T21:58:10-04:00

Should we strike out at equipment that was ours or given to the ANA? Perhaps we should once everyone we intend to be is removed from Afghanistan. Should we use a MOAB? No. A punitive air campaign against the Taliban would not be unwarranted, especially given how we know how they govern. There are, however, innocent Civilians among them; cowardly Civilians yes, but innocent. So any such operation should be taken with great care.

A common rebuttal to them having our equipment is they can't use it, one thing to consider is not them using it but selling it off to other nations that can or at the least study it. Nations such as Iran, China, or Russia would be an easy buyer to evaluate some of our gear up close or to utilize in whatever manner they see fit which would likely be damaging to us in some manner.

Response by PFC Joe Thomas made Aug 29 at 2021 10:55 PM

2021-08-29T22:55:53-04:00

I agree. That’s the same reason I worry so much about the future of our own country. There are so many in our own country that lack patriotism and love of our country to fight for it. Our own cowards/leaders spew hate for the ur country and want to label those that do love our country racist extremists. If you display an American flag you’re racist, if you declare love of country you’re an extremist, and if you say anything about the cowards that sit on their asses while they put American warriors in harms way then you are a radical. If you say anything about the fat Cheeto eating can’t do one push-up video game playing welfare living I don’t know if I’m a boy or girl 20 something…. Then you are an insensitive bigot…..

Yes we should take away everything we gave them and return it to the dust trap it started out as.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 29 at 2021 11:02 PM

2021-08-29T23:02:12-04:00

Kinda of hard- they Gov't seldom paid them, we took away their Ari and Arty support after teaching them how to fight using it. The Taliiban seldom took prisoners, and it is well known that they would hunt/kill family members. So with all that- Fight or flee to try to get family out?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 2:54 AM

2021-08-30T02:54:39-04:00

We can’t make them want to fight. The United Nations should step in. The Taliban’s idea of government goes against human rights. The UN not taking control of this makes them a bigger joke than the League of Nations. What we should have done is got all civilians out first, THEN remove our military assets. Biden’s dumb ass did it the other way around and then had to return and fit thousands of troops in a small airport which led to too many unknown variables in a small area of operation, and resulted in 13 of our troops dying. Also, The ANA should have given us the common courtesy to let us know they’d surrender this quick, so we could take our equipment back before they did it.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Aug 30 at 2021 8:32 AM

2021-08-30T08:32:45-04:00

I think you fail to grasp the sheer size of the retrograde disposal yards across Afghanistan. We shut down Sharana and started using Super Fob. Shut down Super Fob and used Ramrod and Ghazni. All the while if things were falling off of trailers on Hwy 1 they were being left if they were not serialized items or were too time consuming to recover. That’s just speaking of RC East. The scale of things you’re asking about may make a lot of sense coming from a Junior Enlisted point of view don’t carry much in the way of strategic value. The equipment we left has some inherent flaws and those flaws will trouble whoever decides to use it next. Mainly fuel consumption and replacement parts. The MAT-Vs will all eventually run their tanks dry or roll sideways down a mountain from being asked to go somewhere beyond it’s ability. Maxx Pro’s will have some questionable maintenance done and leave themselves stranded without parts support or recovery assets. The ones that don’t have that happen will end up cannibalizing other vehicles to stay running but still carry the fuel consumption issue until they finally quit too. The greatest concern should be the forfeiture of the EGON, Paladin, THOR, Duke and other electronic countermeasures. Having things like that on hand to study ways to defeat or sell to adversary nations is going to change the game in the future on radio frequency command det ied’s.
As for ANA capitulation, anyone who fought alongside them saw this coming. The hard core fighters all got snagged up by ASF, Special Squad, KPF, and other surrogate forces, got killed over the course of the last 20 years, left Afghanistan and joined some other Nation’s military, or are still fighting up north. The ABP, ALP, AUP, and other alphabet soup organizations were basically hot garbage.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Aug 30 at 2021 9:10 AM

2021-08-30T09:10:03-04:00

Reminds me of the Miller beer commercial back in the day. Nuke boat in the eastern med, script All tubes empty, there is a glow in the eastern sky, It's Miller time!

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 30 at 2021 9:31 AM

2021-08-30T09:31:24-04:00

SPC Richard Zacke MOAB is to big. However, if it was my call I would drop some smaller JDAM on every aircraft, vehicle, and weapons storage site, preferably while some Taliban are in them.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 30 at 2021 9:34 AM

2021-08-30T09:34:10-04:00

I don't disagree that Afghanistan is a hot mess and that their Government should have done better. But I don't think carpet bombing all of our previous haunts will end in the result you think it would. You are assuming everyone on the ground would be a guilty party and that just isn't the case. You have thousands of Afghans who live outside these old bases just living their lives. Aside from all of the military equipment left behind there are metric tons of items left at these bases folks would want or need. There would be a good numbers of innocent civilians killed in the process.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 30 at 2021 9:49 AM

2021-08-30T09:49:44-04:00

You suffer from one blinding misconception. One which, frankly, most of the world suffers from. And that is the concept of Afghanistan as a nation. For tjw overwhelming majority of Afghans, tje "nation" of Afghanistan is lines on a map that other people worry about. They have NEVER been a unified or cohesive nation as we think of one. Even in 2019, after years of nation building by the US and NATO and before everyone pulled out, even them, the Afghan President was often refered to as the mayor of Kabul; because that is just about all he had effective control over.

Love of nation? What nation? Even now, as the Taliban establish their "rule" over Afghanistan, it is incomplete. Tribes will continue to be tribal.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 30 at 2021 11:07 AM

2021-08-30T11:07:28-04:00

My first inclination is to say "bomb them back to the stone age." Unfortunately that wouldn't be too far for parts of Afghanistan. I agree with SFC Kelly Fuerhoff that most Afghans just want to be left alone to live their lives the way they want. We should let them.

We shouldn't waste US resources or risk US lives destroying facilities and equipment we left behind or sold/gave to the Afghan armed forces. The equipment will fall into disrepair and fail unless the Taliban can maintain it. The drug lords are more likely to hire somebody to maintain equipment they steal. The news videos of the equipment show it wasn't the most advanced in the US inventory. The Up-Armored HUMVEEs aren't state-of-the art. The M-16s are available all over the world anyway. The much-publicized UH-60 helicopters were refurbished and require maintenance to be usable for any length of time. The few fixed wing aircraft represent no air-to-air threat. There were a light attack aircraft that can be used for close air support until they require critical maintenance. If we actually left biometric databases and tools behind, that may present a challenge. Of course the Taliban will need somebody trained to maintain the data and use the devices--again their problem. We might be able to remotely destroy the data.

Countries who are not our friends may exploit the equipment and data left behind; however, unless we made a very big mistake and gave the Afghan armed forces some new, sophisticated equipment, the Russians and Chinese already have acquired through legal and illegal means all the data and specifications about the US equipment anyway. Iran and the "stans" north of Afghanistan might have some interest in the stuff left behind. It's more likely to provide an income stream for the Taliban than a serious threat to our National Security.

IMO we should let Afghanistan simply stew for a while. The Chinese may be the next "empire" to attempt to rule this place. Exhausting some Chinese resources in the area would be to the US's advantage. There's a undercurrent to revolution being reported in the press. Not every Afghan is happy with the Taliban. Over time enough disgruntled Afghans may band together and overthrow the Taliban. This doesn't mean the next ruling class will be favorable to the West in general or US in particular, but they will be different from the Taliban.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2021 12:29 PM

2021-08-30T12:29:27-04:00

Not unless terrorists start operating there. Stay the course with drone strikes. It could lead to a global jihad, but should be an option. Not sure about leaving Bagram, but it's done. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-exactly-did-we-abandon-bagram-air-base/

Why Exactly Did We Abandon Bagram Air Base? | National Review

Biden was either confused, or actively misleading the American people, when he explained why senior military officers advised him to abandon Bagram.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 30 at 2021 1:04 PM

2021-08-30T13:04:52-04:00

Sounds good, but then probably as many Afghan innocents would be killed as Taliban, etc. That said however, when we left Bagram AB, it should have been blown up THEN. Likewise with all the equipment - Blackhawks, armor, small arms, DRONES, etc. Instead, we've left them for Iran and other rogue nations to gain insight into our weaponry and reverse engineer a lot of stuff.
Hopefully, heads will roll over not destroying equipment, facilities and the like. Sad to say though, all we'll see is scapegoats as the administration (and TOP brass) play t he CYA game.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 30 at 2021 1:25 PM

2021-08-30T13:25:27-04:00

We are gone, turn away and don't look back. No amount of vengence will change it.

Response by TSgt Thomas Monaghan made Aug 30 at 2021 2:43 PM

2021-08-30T14:43:48-04:00

Absoultely

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2021 2:23 AM

2021-08-31T02:23:43-04:00

I know it's weird to hear this, but -

We are not at war with the Taliban.

We were supporting a government in Afghanistan, that government is gone. The Taliban are or will be the legitimate ruling party of Afghanistan. They are vying for international recognition and other countries are recognizing them. The only value to us fighting them was that we were helping our friends, the Afghani government, who is now completely gone. Our two main issues with the Taliban were that they wouldn't give us Bin Laden and they fought against the government we supported. We got Bin Laden and our friends have left the neighborhood. There's no fight for us there.

As for the ISIS-K who attacked us, their reach is pretty much limited to Afghanistan area, the Taliban will have to deal with them now. We retaliated for their attack, there's no reason to invest more lives in it

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2021 2:59 PM

2021-08-31T14:59:07-04:00

The Taliban are not the Taliban that this all started with. It's just a name. How may of the top guys are still around from 2001.

I would even put out an argument that we might be better off with a 100% Taliban ruled Afghanistan. At least then we'd know who to point the finger at.

It's a unique part of the world where anything goes. Wanna know how to work the politics and law in Afghanistan? Watch an episode of Game of Thrones.

I'm a WWII history nut, but I think we are long past trying to compare those solutions to now, Because then, we changed Japan's and Germany's mind by our willingness to kill every single last one of them. Our racism against Japanese made it easy.

Then the follow up of WWII we were willing to rebuild all the countries at war from the ground up. We were willing to take control of the education systems so all the little Germans and Japanese were learning what we wanted them to learn. If you include the post WWII occupation years then Afghanistan doesn't look that long now does it?

We are just waiting for Afghanistan to come around to wanting what the western countries have to offer and no one is taking our offerings. No one is teaching it to them in the schools and controlling the propaganda they are learning from the ground up. At least not where it matters. No one is willing to just be there forever.

WWII happened to work out because of a counter balance power of the USSR and the west's willingness to fund our investment against them.

Now, I think ironically, the Taliban are a more regional problem for the Russians and Chinese.