Should there be one minimum APFT standard regardless of age and gender? What do you all think?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 03:26:10 -0500

One minimum that all Soldiers must meet. You can have a sliding scale if you want and an additional MOS or duty specific test as well.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Feb 15 at 2015 3:39 AM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 03:39:41 -0500

All for one, one for all, as it was, as it should be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 3:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 03:46:40 -0500

Ehhh,

In the scope of business and bottom line, it'd be a waste to develop MOS specific events to APFT. Further, to standardize the APFT based on age and gender, you would probably eliminate realistic expectations for the force.

The APFT, if you notice, peaks around 28 years old. Theoretically, this is when you have acclimated to Army physical requirements and have not started to naturally go down hill in strength and endurance. I know there are some older soldiers who could run me in to the ground, but that is generally the exception, not the rule. Same goes for women soldiers. There may be some who could out PT the best of us, but anatomically, they are built in a way that can only be appraised in scale, with respect to males.

At the end of the day, I do not think the current APFT is comprehensive enough, bit I also do not think that it should be changed to encompass a standard between neither male and female, nor age.

The amount of money it would take to develop would far out weigh the value.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 3:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 03:53:20 -0500

I would like to see something more rigorous for combat arms. At a minimum amp up and enforce the army ruck standard for all. I've been in some situations where out of shape "enablers" could have gotten us pretty jacked up (thank you A-10s for saving my a**). I think the army as a whole needs it kicked up a notch and focus on the important things like humping weight and IMT.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Feb 15 at 2015 4:34 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 04:34:13 -0500

Same standards same treatment. Equality.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 5:14 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 05:14:37 -0500

The one thing I've always found a little annoying is that for the push ups and the run, an almost failing score for me is a 100% for a female of my age.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 6:39 AM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 06:39:02 -0500

I cannot support one standard among the sexes because sciences doesn't support it. Second to math, science regarding the human body is absolute. The only true way to equalize the APFT standard is to lower the men's standard to the women's.

However, you could lower the men's standard closer to the women's and vice versa. Then have the APFT simply a GO or NOGO test.

That's about it.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 15 at 2015 5:26 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 17:26:37 -0500

APFT minimum is 180 what exactly are you asking in your question Sir?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 7:19 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:19:34 -0500

I had an APFT right before turning 32 which I pass with flying colors, after turning 32 my 2 miles run time went up for more than 30 secs. I wonder what difference could make 1 year of age. This next APFT I have to do my 2 miles run in less than 17:42, that's a joke... MAJ Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 15 at 2015 7:41 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 19:41:08 -0500

oh yes of course....I'm like this.....I served over 25 years just retired (medically)...I had Cervical spine surgery, I have a coming up surgery on my right shoulder, and 2 more on L arm and lower back as soon as the 1st surgery heals up...
There is no way I can deploy....as much as I want to go over and give isis a good ol fasion American ass whooping. Lets face it, no way I could even thing about passing a PT test...I'm on a cain for the rest of my life.
I don't think anyone could blame the army for telling me to hang my boots up out to pasture....but PT is what helps physically and mental. If I can't even walk a PT test...ISIS would look at me like I was crazier than a football bat for being there.
It is our main and individual responsibility to stand ready to deploy, engage and destroy the enemies of the USA

Response by SGT Nia Chiaraluce made Feb 15 at 2015 8:54 PM

SGT Nia Chiaraluce — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:54:32 -0500

I personally agree with the one standard mindset. I think it's nothing more than a mental mind block to say to a female, " Well science says...". To be frank it's crap. The females I work with and train with can out do most of the men on this answer feed. Last week I was the first soldier done behind my infantry back ground Commander on our ruck. We maintained a 14 min mile pace at 45lbs....I'm 5'1" with sciatic nerve damage down my left leg. I think a lot of what's being groomed into our females is a weak mindset.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 15 at 2015 9:13 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 21:13:38 -0500

I like the "Normalized" Test that the Marine Corps does.

There are 3 specific tests you must pass. An Upper Body with a minimum score (Pull Ups for Males, Dead Arm Hang for women), Core Test (Crunches), and a Run.

There are deviations in scoring between the testing between sexes, because men & women are different. It is unreasonable to expect women to do pull ups, because that is not a good measure of women's upper body fitness. It is unreasonable to expect the same time on the run from women, because women "as a group" are not as fast as men.

The minimum for each test remains the same regardless of age, however the TOTAL test score is higher based on age. The younger you are, the more Additional points you must get to pass (whether it from run, situps, or upper body test).

Now, as for MOS specific tests. Here is my problem with them.

Let's say you are a Infantryman, and have a required score higher than an Intel Analyst. I as an Intel Analyst went to a Infantry BN. What score do I have to get? My Platoon (S2/Scout Snipers) consisted of Infantry & Intel, and a Corpsman. The S3 down the hall from me had Infantry and Administration in it. What score would they maintain? What about communicators? The complexities, just get way out of hand way too quickly.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 9:17 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 21:17:27 -0500

One ring to rule them all.. await this is not the LOTR forum. Yes yes by all means one test and one further acrossed all of DoD makes sense. Then add to but never take away. Marines can ad a mile for the run. Congrates you just passed DoD standard Marine now finish as Marine one more mile.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 9:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 21:47:24 -0500

The highest minimum male push-up raw score is 42 for 60 points at 17-21 age bracket. That is Score of 100 for the same female bracket.

I don't see how this can be equalized. In other words, ONLY females that score 100 on the push-up event would be able to pass at male standards.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 11:15 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:15:10 -0500

Expecting a 47 year old (for example) to perform to the same standard as a 17 year old is unreasonable in the extreme. In this case, science is not crap, it's truth.

I consistently get between 225 and 250 on my APFT. If you're more worried about whether I max my APFT and less worried about how well I do my job (255A), the problem isn't with me.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 10:25 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:25:27 -0500

The idea of a single PT regardless of gender is a little crazy and this is why they cancelled the attempt before. Either you are going to challenge the males and fail 80% of the females or not push the males to their potential. To say males and females have the same potential for strength and endurance is to ignore science.
As for the sliding scale I think the gradually increasing scale until the mid 30s does make sense as that is most people start breaking down after years of service.
finally I believe you need a standard PT test and if you want to add a combat arms branch specific PT test that can be another disqualifier for some. For most MOS' it just doesn't pass the common sense test.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 2 at 2015 3:17 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:17:20 -0500

It isn't really one standard if there is a sliding scale for age and gender variation is it?

If you created on minimum are you going to up everyone to the current men's score or take everyone down to the women's?

If you take everyone down, the standard is gone. If you take everyone up, then some will fail and cry foul.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 2 at 2015 8:19 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:19:32 -0500

Agree with Capt Richard I P.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 8:38 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:38:07 -0500

Keep it as it is. We have people who cannot hit it as it is. Do NOT lower it at all though. If we lower the standards we lower what is expected of our servicemembers and we lower the quality servicemembers we have.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 8:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:44:01 -0500

Change the run based off of height... Just not fair for someone at 5'7 have to run the same as someone at 6'7.... Do you understand how many steps I make with these short legs...j/k

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 9:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:52:38 -0500

Females should be required to do more sit-ups

Response by PO1 Dustin Adams made Mar 3 at 2015 4:03 PM

PO1 Dustin Adams — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:03:34 -0500

A gender neutral standard with a sliding scale based on age.

Why should the physical standards be different when the pay is the same per billet, grade, and time in service?

I think with the transition of women into combat roles including special operations that the physical standards should be the same. Equality is not a one way street.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Mar 3 at 2015 4:37 PM

SFC Christopher Perry — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:37:58 -0500

Negative, I am no longer 18 years old. I openly admit that 48 years on this Earth and 13 years in the Army has taken its toll on my body.