Should The Service Academies Be "DRY" Campuses?

2015-10-14T01:52:41-04:00

Working At One Our Nations Finest Military Institutions, I Find Myself Appalled At The Level Of Maturity That "Students" Attending Such A Prestigious School, Case In Point Seeing "Students" Barely Able To Walk Back Through The Gate Without Being Carried Or Yes Even Being Behind The Wheel Of A Vehicle In An Inhebtiated State Makes Me Wonder How When The Day Comes They Will Have The Maturity To "Lead" Enlisted Troops. I Wonder How Many Of Them When The Time Comes Are Going To Drop The Hammer On The First Young Soilder For Making The Same Mistakes They Did?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 1:58 AM

2015-10-14T01:58:22-04:00

It would not do any good. If they come back from a weekend pass drunk, how would a dry campus help? Forbidding alcohol wouldn't change anything. If a cadet/midshipman does not display the maturity to be a leader because of alcohol abuse or any other reason, then they should not be commissioned.

Response by TSgt David L. made Oct 14 at 2015 4:06 AM

2015-10-14T04:06:47-04:00

We are educating the future leaders of our military services, so why treat them like children? They will have to deal with social and adult issues sometime and drinking is one of them. If we can't trust them around alcohol then how will we trust them to lead the next generation of military troops? It's part of adult maturation... Do we want them to do it in school, or wait until they are in a unit somewhere and then have to "learn" to deal with social or private issues like drinking while being in leader situations in front of their peers, higher-ups and subordinates? I'm guessing not.

Then there is this angle; are we tempting them to cheat? Teaching them to circumvent the rules? They WILL do adult things, right, wrong or illegal. By banning, forbidding something they will do anyway, aren't we setting them up for failure? They will need the decision making process and the sooner they can go through that the better off they will be. I would prefer they will be ready to assume a leadership roles when they arrive.
Like we need more LTs that have problems making decisions! LMAO Sorry, couldn't be helped! LOL

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Oct 14 at 2015 7:08 AM

2015-10-14T07:08:23-04:00

No, let them make the college mistakes while on campus, not in front of their Platoon.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Oct 14 at 2015 7:22 AM

2015-10-14T07:22:06-04:00

If it is as widespread as you make it sound then there are real issues with the vetting process for candidates as well as leadership at the academy. These folks are getting a free, very expensive, education at taxpayers expense. We ought to expect a little more out of them than the average college student. Perhaps that is too much to expect out of today's youth and the current military leadership structure. Personal responsibility/accountability is becoming passé and individual expression and "rights" are ruling the day.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 8:16 AM

2015-10-14T08:16:19-04:00

SPC West-When I was a Mid, it WAS a dry campus-I suspect it still is. As freshmen, we couldn't drink, regardless of age...as sophomores and up, it had to be "off the Yard". Trouble is, there's a lot of bars within walking distance of the main gate. Was there "hootch" being made? You bet...but most who tried their hand at "con-locker whiskey" ended up re-discovering penicillin :)

The Academy was pretty good (in my time at least) about throwing the book, the hammer, the kitchen sink, etc...at any Mid who got a DUI, had an "incident", or otherwise let the stupidity of youth become an embarrassment to the Navy. Frankly, having such an event occur in your junior or senior could cost you well over a quarter of a mil in money owed to the Government post commitment...so, not a generally "accepted" notion.

As to the attitude of graduates when confronting "similar" behavior in their personnel? Well, from what I experienced, Academy grads were both the "worst" offenders and the most lenient when it came to such issues. I'm ashamed to say that for a time, my guys had a "watch" on me whenever we pulled into port...Didn't matter where I went, or how hard I tried to hide; someone from my Division ended up "just being there" to make sure the Ensign made it back to the boat alive and not in hand-cuffs. Believe you me...I kept that in mind when the XO wanted to hammer one of them. Chief had a sleeve that was red from his elbow to his wrist...so yeah, we stuck together and took turns keeping the guys, and one another out of "dutch".

I heard once...and I profoundly agree...that Academy grads are the best and worst officers in the Fleet. If we can keep from self-destructing for a few years, some of the motivation that got us there may kick-in, and lead to a truly dedicated officer. The problem is getting someone who's entering the service with four years of anachronism and cynicism, wrapped in repression, to realize their responsibilities and "grow up". Some of us do...many of us don't.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-10-14T09:09:26-04:00

No - If they can't handle themselves accordingly, then that should be an easy self-select process to weed out cadets/middies.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-10-14T09:52:59-04:00

If we do not allow them to make mistakes and learn from them how can we weed out the ones who will never be leaders, and further how can we expect the rest to develop into anything other than robots?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-10-14T11:03:46-04:00

Absolutely not, our future leaders need strong mentors not barriers. I fail to see how that prepares them down the road.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 14 at 2015 12:20 PM

2015-10-14T12:20:04-04:00

SPC Dale West Specialist, welcome to RP. Your question is a good one. However, I find it distracting to read with all the capitalization. Just my opinion.

Response by SPC Dale West made Oct 14 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-10-14T14:43:26-04:00

I Would Like To Thank Everyone Who Responded To My Question. Some Valid Points Were Made On Both Sides And I Do Appreciate The Feedback. As For The "Caps" Thats Just How I Write.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2015 1:22 PM

2015-10-15T13:22:42-04:00

At USMA, you have to be over 21 and a senior (1st Class Cadet) and have privileges to drink during limited periods. There is only one place on post for you to drink (The Firsty Club). To drink off-post, you also have to be granted privileges to leave post. So for all intent and purpose, it practically is a dry post for most cadets. Granted, privileges are easy to attain for 1st Class Cadets who have their head screwed on straight. ... and those that don't rightly lose their privileges.

As many things in life, it is more about teaching, mentoring, encouraging, and enforcing (when necessary) good behaviors and instilling a learning culture versus simply limiting access. Most of us are better off in life after having taken a few bumps and learning valuable lessons in our youth. In many cases, this is still a sound philosophy for our cadets as well... extreme behaviors aside. Many people probably know someone who breezed through their youth and now are facing real issues coping with life's struggles as an adult, because these individuals weren't forced to tackle real-life early... and that person probably isn't best situated to lead in crisis.

****I am not excusing the behaviors that SPC West has identified. Those are still problems that need to be dealt with. BEAT NAVY! :)