Should the Military have a limit on Deployments for individuals?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 07:31:49 -0500

Now knowing this is what we signed up to do fight our country's wars should there be a limit to how many times a Soldier should deploy? <div><br></div><div>Or maybe something the Behavioral Health providers do saying "hey this soldiers needs to sit this one out"?</div><div><br></div><div>Please add your thoughts.</div>

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 7:37 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 07:37:51 -0500

1SG Hero,

No. Some of us are keen to deploy as much as possible because this is where we learn the most about out craft, sharpen our skills, and make our major contributions. Behavioral health should only intervene when there is a behavioral health problem. Multiple deployments taken alone are not a behavioral health issue.

Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 7:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 07:45:11 -0500

1SG, Isn't that what behavior specialists do? I don't think there should be a limit. If its too much, then don't reenlist, find employment elsewhere. Just my opinion.

Response by SFC James Baber made Feb 9 at 2014 9:11 AM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 09:11:44 -0500

1SG,

While I have had 10+ deployments in my career, 9 considered combat related, I have not had any BH related issues that I have noticed or been talked to about, I have passed all the post deployments assessments, now whether that was because it was a check the block or I actually was fine is something that kept me continuing my career and repetitive deployments with no disciplinary or concerns from COC over the years.

Now for the part of relationships, I would agree to an extent, during my time in service I did lose two marriages, but it wasn't due to my mental health, it was due to me gone all the time, being the job (MP), I also volunteered for special duties besides deployments, I did drug interdiction for a total of 8 years during my career and all the field exercises, and TDY's besides the double digits deployments, both wives said the same thing, they were tired of me being gone all the time, and that we had grown apart from not being around and with each other. That was my doing, not the deployments mentality, I figured the 2nd one was going to be ok since she was military, but of the 6 1/2 years we were married I was gone for 5+ years of it, so it was a natural progression of loss, but with both we are still very good friends with each other, and their are children from the 1st one as well.

While I do think that there are individuals that may have issues and suffer from being deployed multiple times, to blanket them all together is not truly have an open mind on the issue, not everyone is wired the same way and handle things the same way, most people that join the military have a purpose or mindset when they join knowing the possibility of being sent to a war zone and having to come face to face with an enemy as a reality, but some that join also think that they will never leave there little part of the Army world until it smack them in the face with the reality of truth.

BH is a good asset for the military, but I also look at it as an escape outlet for many who want to hide out during their careers also, as I have seen many leaders (NCO and Officer alike) that have spent their 20 year career in the garrison element and have never deployed, even though we have had a dual war function for the last 13 years. I know some jobs or MOSs will be said that they are unable to deploy, but I call the BS card on that as every single SM is replaceable somewhere along the line because that one job cannot have the same person sitting there for 30 years, sometime along the way everyone has to PCS at least every 3,4,5 years to a new duty or assignment, homesteading supposedly went out the window after 9/11. So every SM in the military should have at least 1 minimum deployment sometime in the last 13 years, if not they have been hiding out point blank. And that should also be a BH issue looked into as well wouldn't you agree.

I am very passionate when I hear BH issues and deployments, especially with all the friends and Soldiers and other SMs I have lost and seen sacrifice for their country and fellow SMs over the years only to have someone else say they couldn't deploy because of their job wouldn't let them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 10:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 22:13:02 -0500

I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own

BH should be there to confirm not to initiate!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 10 at 2014 11:38 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:38:03 -0500

No. Some of us absolutely love it. Don't get me wrong, while deployed I miss my loved ones as much as the next guy, but still, this is what we signed on to do. Deployment is where we actually get to do our job and focus on actually being Soldiers, and leave (hopefully) that garrison nonsense behind for a time.

Plus... you know... combat pay ;)

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made Feb 10 at 2014 12:33 PM

1SG Alan Bailey — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:33:23 -0500

Not sure if there should be a limit to the number of deployments a Soldier goes on, I have read each of the post on here and I have to wounder how many would change thier attitude towards deployments if the additional pay stopped. i know we all signed up to fight our countries wars and to serve our people. But I think Soldiers will do whatever they have to do to deploy, say what it takes for a doctor to sign off, PCS to a deploying unit and waive dwell time. I have several thoughts to why but that is a deferent converrsation.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 12:38 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:38:38 -0500

1SG Haro,

I am currently on my 6th deployment. The individual must decide when it's enough for him or her and or family. Once an individual had enough of deployments, then one should decide to exit the Army. It is important for all of us to realize that regardless of how many times we have been deployed, we must be ready to pack our bags and deploy again if we are called to do so. I do not believe in "sitting this one out" concept, unless there is truly an issue and confirmed by the appropriate agency/personnel.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2014 9:04 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:04:58 -0500

I've only deployed once with the Air Force to Kabul, Afghanistan. I respect my brother service members (Army, Navy, Marines). I don't think that if you are having problems you shouldn't deploy...but I do think a rear deployment might be in order if you have seen a lot of combat.

Response by SGT Alfred Cox made May 27 at 2014 10:22 PM

SGT Alfred Cox — Tue, 27 May 2014 22:22:19 -0400

everyone should have a thorough screening after every deployment...but giving the numbers in personnel we have... we can't have a limit of deployments. Now to humor this... I would say 5 should be the limit but consider after 3 to see if said individual is mission essential. if not... keep him in the rear as stand by.. but then again cost in fuel and logistics come into play as well.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 10 at 2015 9:47 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 21:47:02 -0400

1SG Haro, Mulptile and or repeatedly extended deployments can cause irreparable harm. You have heard the term, "going Aisatic"?

SFC Jerry Shriver, of Sacramento repeatedly extended his tour in Vietnam. He was an SF member of Studies and Observation Group, 5th SF that made the cross border incursions into Laos and Cambodia. SFC Shriver was based in Kontum, one of 3 bases that supported such incursions. In his last action, SFC Schiver moved into the action, guns blazing and was never seen again. He had been in Vietnam too long. (SOG, Gary Plaster, MAJ).

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 1:17 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:17:58 -0400

Draft during a draw down? Please reconsider this train of thought. However there might should be a better way to track and avoid this.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 3:23 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 03:23:51 -0400

If a Service Member has deployed at least seven times it is a pretty safe bet that they re-enlisted at least once. So, what's the issue again?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 3:42 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 03:42:06 -0400

I have a number of troops in my unit who are upset that we're NOT deploying. Some have even gone as far as to ETS or request a conditional release into a different branch because of this. If anything we need better force management, not a draft.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 10:26 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 10:26:34 -0400

Those 12 Soldiers that deployed 7 times...what kind of unit are they in? What is their MOS? Have they re-enlisted and stayed in the same unit? All of these are factors in multiple deployments. For example, 11B in a BCT that always has a high OPTEMPO...guess what, they are going to get deployed a lot. It is the nature of the beast. Even the 68S (Preventive Medicine) has a moderately high deployment rate. Where ever there are Soldiers eating, working, sleeping, showering, there is the Preventive Medicine ensuring that those things are being done as clean as possible. Civil Affairs are always deploying. Even SF.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 12:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 12:15:40 -0400

I know plenty of Soldiers that would volunteer to go every other year given the chance. And someone on their 7th rotation has bound to have re-enlisted a few times. If there are people willing to go, then what is the problem? I don't think we need a draft.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 1:09 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 13:09:53 -0400

I know the Air Force is different, but when I worked a job that followed traditional deployment band tempo, I was always upset that I didn't get the option to deploy. I know of a lot of Air Force personnel who would love to deploy yet never receive the chance to, while others get tasked for their second/third time in as many years (or sometimes even back to back deployments).
Air Force should go back to voluntary deployments as a primary means of tasking with non-vols as the gap filling method. Just my two cents.
Another issue I see is as a member of SOF, we have a lot of folks who deploy 6 months out of the year. With the military making a major shift towards Special Operations being the new norm we place a huge strain on the SOF units themselves. But how do we solve the issue of special operations personnel burnout? A draft probably wouldn't help since you can't just toss a drafted enlistee into a special operations unit.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 28 at 2015 1:14 PM

GySgt Joe Strong — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 13:14:59 -0400

SPC Edward Tapper,
I may be reading into your question, but what I'm seeing having read the whole thread(at this time) is an agenda in search of a question.

I think you've gotten some thoughtful responses.

1st, I don't think you thought through your question.

The issue you appear to be addressing isn't about OPTEMPO but you've conflated it into the problem. The issue isn't about the Draft, but you've also dragged that in, which is problematic in that it also questions the current drawdowns and from the Marine an initiative to intentionally age the force.

The issue appears to be with properly preparing our forces mentally to engage with both the enemy and having prepared ourselves mentally and perhaps (POV) spiritually for the toll of Combat in general and the possibility of taking another's life.
Is enough being done? At this point I think Veterans and currently Serving Members are reaching out to deploying members with resources, but many times those same Troops don't see the value in discussions until AFTER they've earned their own scars.

Are the Institutions doing enough? I'm not current but due to the nature of both institutional change and a culture of what we've done before has always worked, I'd bet they were still behind the curve.

Is any prior preparation going to completely alleviate the issue of PTSD? I think without completely removing people's moral compasses (A COMPLETELY UNDESIREABLE THING) that that outcome is impossible, and may not create the desired effect anyway as PTSD isn't necessarily derived from questions of moral incompatibility questions.

But neither rotating more people thru, or forcing people who didn't ask to serve is going to help the problem in any way.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 28 at 2015 1:17 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 13:17:02 -0400

You are in some extremely limited company SPC Edward Tapper, that is a limited group of Soldiers that deserve some serious recognition.

If in deployments we are talking combat operations, we must understand that deployments vary in length as well as in kinetic action experienced. For instnaces, lets look at "Big Army" units typical deployment schedules, seven times (since 2001) would mean they deployed for four year long deployments, two surge (extended to 15 months) deployments as well as one nine month deployment....totaling 87 months in combat meaning they would be authorized 14 service (combat) stripes.

for our Special Operations Forces, it is quite possible that many have deployed more than seven times. While many diminish the length of their deployments, these men are absolutely sprinting the entire time they are in theater! Many (most) of their ops will occur at night and often times they will make four or five missions in one night!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 28 at 2015 5:49 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:49:43 -0400

It changes based on Service.

Navy Guys deploy ALL THE TIME. 6 on 6 off for 3 years (depending on dock), then shore command, the sea command, etc. Once they hit 3 years at Sea & Chief, a lot do everything in their power to stay deployed.

My first unit was on a 22 month rotation. I did two deployments between 95 & end of 98. I did another 400~ days of "travel" (including overseas) while I was at my next command.

As for the Draft, that's a separate issue from Deployments. The Draft is there in case we need LOTS of troops quickly. Currently, we're able to meet readiness needs based on an all volunteer force. When we aren't, that's when we look at the Draft. It will be AVF > Stop Loss > Reserves > Recall > Draft.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Mar 28 at 2015 7:28 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:28:06 -0400

Just let me go on my first one, please.

Response by SSG Harper Peterson made Mar 29 at 2015 1:51 AM

SSG Harper Peterson — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 01:51:37 -0400

As we are all different, the number of deployments we can handle varies. After redeploy in back home, an assessment is to be taking place to see the readiness for the next deployment. Unfortunately, we are far too often considered checking the boxes and not actually caring for the service members.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 29 at 2015 2:02 AM

SFC Collin McMillion — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 02:02:14 -0400

Having not belonged to the regular Army, when I asked how long I would be there, they just said as long as they needed me, 39 months later I went home. I think we are sent to do a job and not ask how long.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 29 at 2015 3:01 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 03:01:34 -0400

No.

I think we need to better manage OPTEMPO, but we need not limit or restrict deployments; that is why we (now you) are here. The only limit I would make would be fixed parameters on deployments, and then you would be exempt when you ETS or retire. That said, since 911 we have had two issue that confound this issue.

1. The OPTEMPO for E-1s thru E-6s in my branch, and many branches, is/was off the chart. Soldiers come/came back from deployments at post A and then they would PCS to post B, but when they get to their next duty assignment they are assigned to the next unit out the door... So the units dwell time might be a year, but the individuals could be as little as 90 days.... I think we have fixed this, but for about 5 years, this is how we ran the railroad...

2. Soldiers (mostly Senior Leaders) who all the sudden became non-deployable... But, they could still run marathons or compete in triathlons.... This made the OPTEMPO higher for the rest of us...

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Mar 29 at 2015 3:19 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 15:19:17 -0400

There were times when I'd rather be shot on the battlefield than be on rear detachment. Having been on four deployments, and I can safely say it affected far worse mentally "sitting out" a deployment involuntarily. In some respects, I'm still bothered by it even though I went another deployment after that. To watch my Soldiers go to battle without me was devastating

Response by 1SG David Niles made Mar 29 at 2015 3:21 PM

1SG David Niles — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 15:21:36 -0400

In a nut shell, yes. Who determines what that number is???? Could not answer that. We will see in the next twenty or thirty years the damage multiple combat deployments to multiple combat areas have done to our young men and women. It is my fear and has been my fear that we have not seen the worse as of yet.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 8:59 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 20:59:32 -0400

I say yes depending on the behavioral patterns of the individual.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 11:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:53:34 -0400

This is a double edged sword 1SG.

Most of these providers do not like War and try to protect our Soldiers from serving in combat. I have even had a provider try to stop me for my injuries.

Another tricky question would be how many deployments? All deployments or "True Combat" ones. Possibly even base it on the number of contacts with the enemy?

Definitely a hard one to answer fairly.

Response by Sheryl Verhulst made Apr 9 at 2015 10:58 AM

Sheryl Verhulst — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:58:57 -0400

I would say not a limit on number of times deployed, but I would definitely say YES to the duration of employments. From what I have seen and some preliminary research shows, extended period of theatre duty has detrimental effects to mental health and seems to correlate with mood related disorders that are diagnosed later on. For the sake of maintaining a highly efficient fighting force, it is important that we consider modifications that will keep troop in top-notch mental health.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Oct 6 at 2016 6:05 PM

CPO Randy Francis — Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:05:12 -0400

I don't believe firefighters get to tell the Chief "hey Chief, I fought 20 fires this week. I should stay home tonight." It's a part of the career you've chosen.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Oct 6 at 2016 7:16 PM

SPC James Anderson — Thu, 06 Oct 2016 19:16:41 -0400

I think so. Pilots in the past have had limits to how many missions they can fly before coming home, or soldiers being awarded 3 purple hearts in Vietnam, I definitely think todays soldiers should have a limit of how many deployments they can go on. There are limits to everyone's endurance, knowing there is no limit to the number of deployments you go on may result in more mental hardships then if you started out knowing, ok theres a limit I only need to survive 4 and I can sit the rest out. I can see where this would defiantly ease someones mind.

But I guess that reenlisting during combat operations is a pretty convincing way of telling everyone that you are ready and willing to be deployed again. Well I just argued myself to a draw so Im going to sit the rest of this thread out.