Should the military award system be standardized at the Department of Defense level rather that at the individual service branch level?

GySgt John O'Donnell — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:21:54 -0500

http://taskandpurpose.com/the-military-needs-to-get-a-handle-on-its-awards-process/

What happened to the coin pass or to the pat on the back and a hand shake for a job well done? That said, for awards to have defined meaning across the services, should standards for all services be the same for achievement, commendation, meritorious, and valorous service? Thoughts?

The Military Needs To Get A Handle On Its Awards Process

If you didn’t know any better, you might think the military is a grown-up version of summer camp, where everyone gets awards just for showing up.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Nov 30 at 2016 3:32 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:32:40 -0500

Yes

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Nov 30 at 2016 3:35 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:35:10 -0500

Keep it at the Individual Service Branch level because missions differ amongst the branches and so should awards, and this separation has been successful.

Response by FN Kord Kersten made Nov 30 at 2016 3:41 PM

FN Kord Kersten — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:41:40 -0500

Hell no... they need to stop messing with tradition

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2016 3:45 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:45:25 -0500

I have 4 from the Air Force and 6 from the Army. I'm proud of my time in both branches even though the Army is my home now. My PMS in ROTC loves for the prior enlisted (just 3 of us) to wear their ribbons and combat patches. If you've earned it, wear it, and be proud.

That being said, all the uniform stuff can get expensive, and I'm a poor grad student so the less I have to buy, the better. :)

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Nov 30 at 2016 3:49 PM

GySgt Bill Smith — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:25 -0500

The awards system is shit. From what I have seen it only creates jealousy and people feeling cheated.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Nov 30 at 2016 3:50 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:50:40 -0500

GySgt John O'Donnell, I agree that the awarding of medals has become the norm as opposed to the exception, but I do believe the each service should still control their own destiny with respect to awards. It seems as though across the board (DOD) standards might be impossible to implement since I don't really believe there's any standardization within each of the services (one commander's Commendation Medal is another commander's Achievement Medal).

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 30 at 2016 3:57 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:57:47 -0500

In general I would say no, even though there is "potential" good that could come from it.

Keep in mind that even though each Achievement Medal is supposed to be "equal" across Branch, that is not technically true for a few reasons. I'll use the USMC & Army since I am most familiar with them.

At one point, the approval authority for the NAM was the first O6 in the Chain of Command (MEU or Regimental Commander) where in the Army it was the first O5 (BN Commander). Additionally, a few years back the Army removed their "Certificate of Commendation" (Equivalent) and the Army Achievement Medal became the (de facto) replacement for it.

This creates sort of a weird issue. We have a medal which is 2-3 stages removed from what the Army does. We use Letters of Appreciation (Coins), CerComs, NAMs, then NavComs.

Additionally, because we don't have "points" (statistical benefit to promotion system due to award receipt), we don't have the same Award Inflation issues the other services have. End of Tour "acknowledgements" aren't always "Award" based. We tend to lean towards Gifts (plaques, trophies, etc) instead of write-ups (outside of FitReps/NCOER).

This is most obvious when you look at our previous Senior Enlisted Advisers (Sgts Major Marine Corps). It would be rare for any of them to have more than 3-4 NAMs or NCMs (ea), whereas it is not improbable to hear of young soldiers having to wear multiple AAM or ACM because they have 10 of the award and it triggers the 4 device rule. That just doesn't happen on our side.

So basically, there is pragmatic advantage, but our award philosophy is too different to make it work.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2016 4:01 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:01:01 -0500

Leave it individual.
As SPC Sheila Lewis - Stated missions differ among the branches.

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made Nov 30 at 2016 4:34 PM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:34:31 -0500

I would most certainly say individual services, only cause them old farts in Dept. level don't understand the standards from the field and leadership

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 30 at 2016 5:40 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:40:18 -0500

The "standard" seems to be push fruit salad out as quickly as you can. When I was first in, an Achievement Medal had to be signed off by the Fleet Deputy (3 Star). Now O-5 Skippers get beat up for not dishing out their percentage. So the standards have morphed greatly (dilution) in the past 45 years under my eyes. So in my eyes, the hardware an old timer has typically come with much more risk, impact, etc. that the EOT Candy tossed around now. BTW there was an informal policy towards the end of the 'Nam era not to give reservists awards, i.e. PHs, as the White House didn't want it to appear we were still calling up reservists. Heck, a couple of MOH recipients were shoved away from a White House ceremony due to "optics".

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Nov 30 at 2016 6:07 PM

1SG Al Brown — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:07:52 -0500

My opinion.
The ones that should be the same, already are for the most part. The ones that aren't, would result in an epic inter-service battle if change was ordered.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Nov 30 at 2016 6:31 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:31:52 -0500

If we all had 1 uniform, then I would agree. The awards will still be awarded based on each services criteria. Also, to each service, the award would have a varying degree of precedence. An Achievement medal will always mean something different to every soldier, sailor, marine and airman.

Also, you would have to consider badges as well. The USAF uses a ribbon for marksmanship and longevity. And we haven't had a good conduct award in almost 20 years.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Nov 30 at 2016 9:03 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:03:56 -0500

I think they should Keep it centralized its all to much to just do Job and Get a Award like Oh you
washed the 2/1/2 ton truck here a Award but it's to easy theses day.
SSG MARK FRANZEN

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2016 9:25 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:25:48 -0500

A solid question Gunny. I have thought about this a couple times. I feel that the branch specific awards help give individual identity. Each service member, regardless of their branch of service, have the ability to earn the awards of the other branches with the exception of the basic training graduation awards. Although it would simplify the award process I think it would be more trouble than its worth at this point.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Nov 30 at 2016 10:57 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:57:07 -0500

Anything to prevent E-6s from ressembling commanders of a South American dictatorship's military!

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 1 at 2016 2:15 AM

Maj Kim Patterson — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 02:15:10 -0500

GySgt John O'Donnell while this thread appears to be outside my fruit salad rack of recognition, when I took command of my units no one was getting any recognition. I learned the format and requirements for awards and rotated my sections for Attaboys. My point was to let my unit know that what they were doing was noticed. I composed and typed and hand carried 3 First Seargeant of the Year, USAF recognition packages that were selected as the top; 3 different men, different reasons, different responsibilities. Everything they did had to fit on one page and be boiled down to three main points and standard verbiage. My units were filled with people who were innovative and resourceful, knowledgeable about every aspect of every aircraft across the services and internationally. How many crashes did they avert because they created a fix that didn't exist? How do you count the lives that were saved because mistakes did not happen on their watch? When in theater, how happy were you when fighters arrived to strike critical targets after flying around the world, gassed in air without mishap? How about when medivac picked your broken bodies up in the middle of intense fire? Who gets the achievement medal? The aviator? The medic? The platoon leader? The guy that quietly packed the parachutes correctly? We had a period where the top talent was gathered in one place. Then someone had the bright idea that percentages would be good for proper promotion ratios. At base A, there are 5 people up for promotion. You can pick 4. All 5 far exceed the capabilities and accomplishments than anyone at base B. Many of their achievements were classified. Base B can select 4. Who have you lost? And what have you gained? How do you say these are our best, our brightest, our leaders? At a glance, you look at the dress uniform/ official photo. You have 100 packets and 2 hours to make your selection. How do you decide without knowing anyone personally? Haircut? Smile/no Smile? Your glance slides to the rack. Do you base your decision by sheer number of awards, ribbons and devices or do you look for the highest level, top right? Have you considered what an award might count for towards a promotion? And for moral? In a paycheck? Are there too many gratuitous medals? Which of yours didn't you deserve? Officers didn't get awards except in combat operations or something equally deserving. Enlisted got one for showing up. And a device because.. well only one article 15 this year; that counts as good conduct when retention is a problem.

I believe in awards and recognition. I believe the diverse missions of the different branches don't always translate well across the board. My "I love me Wall?" Don't have one. I just found a plack that I was given. It means more than a ribbon. I did my job. It was presented by those who knew me and meant something to them as well. Going forward. Was the action heroic? Was the performance worthy of the words "Singularly distinctive" which reflected great credit on the person, the unit and The United States?

You may have the floor.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 1 at 2016 8:59 AM

SGT William Howell — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:59:10 -0500

What would the standard be? Marines are slow to give, the Air Force gives them out like candy, and the Army/Navy is hit or miss depending on the commander.

Response by MCPO Mark Durland made Dec 1 at 2016 10:38 AM

MCPO Mark Durland — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 10:38:45 -0500

Interesting topic and responses. Perhaps the biggest inconsistency I see is service approval of other-service awards (ie a Sailor given an award by an Army command, but NAVPERS disapproves it and downgrades). Not a fan of this. If you're working for someone with award authority under their service and they have administrative authority in the form of personnel evaluations, etc they should also have absolute award authority.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2016 10:41 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 10:41:10 -0500

I would say no. Distinct branch awards are a good way to recognize cross-branch missions and events. When I was in Afghanistan, I was awarded an Army Commendation medal because I was attached to an Army unit and was awarded a Combat Action Badge which the Navy then converted to a Combat Action Ribbon. When I was at Sugar Grove I got a JSAM because it was a joint Command. Somebody once told me that ribbon racks tell a story. So, you could see through my rack that I was at one point assigned to an Army unit.

Also, one issue with the Navy's awarding of medals is that some of them count as points towards promotion. I was grateful for the Combat Action Ribbon conversion because it gave me an additional 2 award points, but some people got awards simply to better their chances of promotion (not a too common practice, but still).

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Dec 1 at 2016 10:57 AM

SSG Drew Cook — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 10:57:08 -0500

Yeah. We know half of y'alls BSs were for participation.

Response by Sgt Able Snider made Dec 1 at 2016 2:12 PM

Sgt Able Snider — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 14:12:23 -0500

I would say it is kind of annoying for people like me who have served in different branches.

Response by SFC Daniel McIntire made Dec 2 at 2016 8:59 AM

SFC Daniel McIntire — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 08:59:52 -0500

Okay,
My answer, keep it "AS IS". There is some centralization of decorations, hence campaign and various service medals. However, I'm sure each branch had created decorations based on its individual criteria. There are various levels of achievement, valor, merit, and commendation is obviously different within each branch and within the Guard (more so) and Reserve. It can be easily argued that multiple awards are indirectly influenced by the federal system (a de-centralization of powers within the government and de-centralization between the federal government and the states- The Constitution).

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Dec 2 at 2016 12:46 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 12:46:29 -0500

No! Army (Active and NG) here. Regardless of branch, some MOS's are doing things far more dangerous than the rest of us. The Navy can bombard a target from miles away. Army has Mortars and shorter range artillery. As a Medic, I can be at an Aid Station, hospital, or front lines. I'm not sure where, but each medal has conditions that must be met in order to receive it. Many denote one's participation in certain events or events happening to them. Most awards, like the Purple Heart of MoH are very unique. One can look at a soldier's/airman's/Marine's/etc. board and know a good amount about their service.
If this was standardized then you'd have to ask. Many military and veterans don't like talking to every other person who is curious.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Dec 3 at 2016 6:31 PM

SSgt David Tedrow — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 18:31:18 -0500

Simple answer would be No. There are to many service related awards that should remain within the service. There is already a basic DoD award system that covers all services but I feel each branch needs to have the option for service designated awards. There could always be a review of all awards to make sure that awards are necessary.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 14 at 2017 10:42 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 10:42:25 -0500

NO- are you suggesting that the Army and Marine Corps are the same, or the aviators of the Navy & Air Force are the same? Hell even different type units have different ways of looking at awards in the same service. USMC awards a CAR, Army awards CIB or CAB badge. It was the norm in the 80-2000 for folks PCSing from Europe as NCO's, with good records got Meritorious Service Medals- I never was stationed in Europe and ended up with only 2 MSM's cause the 82nd and XVIII ABC looked at it differently. One unit judges something to be worth a ARCOM, different unit says their level of training/expertise it is only worth a AAM.

Response by SSG Tom Montgomery made Sep 27 at 2019 10:59 PM

SSG Tom Montgomery — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:59:37 -0400

I don't think so. Every branch has its own heritage, history and mission. To standardize at that high a level would effectively erase over 200 years of tradition

Response by 1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel made Sep 29 at 2019 10:38 PM

1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 22:38:45 -0400

Reading each other’s ribbons is somewhat interesting and makes for small talk over a beer, but for those of us who served in two different branches. I never checked to see if I picked up any awards during my 2 year stint in the Navy Reserve.

Response by CWO4 Roberto Obong made Oct 5 at 2019 8:50 AM

CWO4 Roberto Obong — Sat, 05 Oct 2019 08:50:30 -0400

John,
It will definitely save money on the contract perspective. For us Marines, "Great Job!" would be enough then press on the plan of the day.

Rob

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Oct 8 at 2019 9:17 PM

LTC Gene Moser — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 21:17:23 -0400

What bothers me is the creation of a dubplicate award for service, not heroism. I will take my Meritorious Service Medal awards as an example. I have two of them. Both certificates say that the "United States of America" was awarded to me by the "President of the United States." But then there is the Defense Meritorious Service Medal. So who awards that and by whom? The same is true for the Legion of Merit and DSM. Why? Well, maybe when each service awarded its Achievement Medal or Commendation Medal, some member of a joint command was due an atta boy but the JC commander was a different service. So the Joint Service Commendation Medal. But both the MSM and the LoM are awarded to all services. That said, who has seen a Joint Service Medal of Honor??

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Nov 8 at 2019 1:28 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 01:28:36 -0500

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Nov 18 at 2019 7:07 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 19:07:46 -0500

Let each service run their program the way they want.
I suppose it could be standardized .. I think prob’ly
That some awards might go on down the pike and fade away because a particular service may NOT have that award and some SJW civilian (that had no business sticking their nose in the mix)would say if they all don’t have it then NO one does !

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Nov 19 at 2019 11:16 AM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 11:16:14 -0500

No, my reason is individual services have individual goals. I remember the controversy over the Green Beret. I never earned one and I learned to respect their goals from what I learned from Nam. I was in a National Guard S.F. unit for about a year. I received one and trained some for it. My time and training was not what I felt gave me the right to claim the honor of wearing it. I earned my jump wings at Fort Benning and would wear them. I had only app. 35 jumps. I would have had as much pride as an S.F. member as I am of being a Marine. The differences instill pride, duty, and desire to be the best. Allowing individuality of services is what makes men go the extra mile. Most services in countries as Russia have total control and dedication to doing as told. Take out the officers and confusion follows. We need men who think and can act alone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 11:46 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 11:46:33 -0500

I believe the military has too many awards and if we continue to flood the awards system with new and meaningless ribbons then they start to lose their importance. We should reset to the World War II award system that consisted of mostly campaign and valor awards. I don't need a ribbon for just being in the Army, going to an NCO school, or simply just not screwing up at my job and getting an end of tour award.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Dec 27 at 2019 8:08 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:08:18 -0500

It was a long time back (‘71) and I was a new A1C at my 1st base, MCGuire AFB, NJ.
I showed up with my Training and personal jacket (201file) and what I knew About the Culinary field. It wasn’t extensive as I’d been a cert. Chef via the Voc-educ. System in the Mich. school systems.
Somewhere along the line our base hosted some topGenerals at the big cement Block building. Actually it wasn’t supposed to be at our base.. it was because of the weather we became the Defacto Hosts . Onto the Dinner, Reception. We also had excellent help from our Army and Navy Services Food Services. All of us pulled together and produced the dinner and reception.
The Army snd Navy and our cooks did the
Planning, prep and production.. I bring the junior new guy set up the platters with assistance from the various text books I had access to and the Airmen I worked with everyday . We were all awarded nice certificates from the AF and DOD and the other services. A lot of repetition in Certificates. I found a big picture frame at Special services building wasn’t being used. I asked permission to borrow it. “Take it, and enjoy getting it in shape” they were right about that.. I took it to base hobby shop and had great assistance from instructors there . To look at it when I obtained it and see it when done. One wouldn’t know it was the same frame. So I made a collage of the certificates that were mine and my fellow AF Cooks that worked on the project. We found a spot on the back wall in the Dining room at our new Dining facility . at that time. Our maintenance guy rigged a nice lamp to cast a light on the frame. I got orders to new assignment as did others and my original certificates were forwarded. Later.. when returning from o’seas in Germany, our flight got sent north to McGuire because they were.not fogged in.
They had a new Dining facility at a new location on the main road to the terminal.
We went there for lunch before going to Philly to get our commercial to Norfolk...
on one of the walls was our collage from that DOD dinner. “Yo SSGT Herrst we found your certificates and your photo..
really cool Sarge !” It was so neat they kept that collage.. The Airmen and NCOs I was with wanted a New photo by the collage and pointing to my certificates in the center. I didn’t expect them to make that big a fuss over it. Maybe I misunderstood what I was to them. Gave me a real warm feeing in the soul.. One of the Airmen kept asking how it all came to be.. and I gave him a recap of what we did that night.. Ghem guys went through the trouble to get base graphics to reproduce the pic they took pointing to my certificates. Base graphics did a excellent
Job of it. And there is always s’body that likes to throw a wrench in the works.. One of the guy’s wife worked for a portrait studio that has a concession on base..
why didn’t these guys go to them? Why?
The studio didn’t have capability to reproduce that part of the collage without pixelling the center of the collage.. the wife was still upset they didn’t try .. she said it was a misappropriation of funds.. well JAG sat on it.. and sat on it and finally the guy recurved retirement orders and retired to central Pennsylvania. The letter of misappropriation was forgotten and the photo was released ...that stupid letter seemed to take all the fun out of the reproduction efforts .. and the crew was spread across the map somewhere..

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made Jan 22 at 2020 7:45 PM

SFC Charles Dennis — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 19:45:33 -0500

Considering each branch has a unique fighting capability, and mission, I would not recommend that course of action.

Response by PO1 Woody W. made Feb 22 at 2020 12:50 PM

PO1 Woody W. — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 12:50:15 -0500

Keep it branch specific. Any member serving in the armed forces, worth their salt will know the Medal(s)/Ribbon(s) Chart... and those specifically awarded for each branch of the service. IMHO, when in uniform, wearing the military Ribbon(s) is a military equivalent to a walking resume, therefore, when the $h!t hits the fan.... and I'm going to hang with the E-4/5/6 that has several Campaign, Combat and Combat Arms related ribbons..... vice am I gonna hang with that E-7/8 or 9 whose ribbons indicate they've done their share of REMF/buitt-lickin duty ribbons..... Well, the answer is pretty obvious since my desire is to survive the action/duty/campaign. Just sayin.... Consequently, ones also going to have a clue if an individual is in the process and/or act of "Stolen Valor," (as most ribbons/medals have a time stamp parameter associated with them) or they're wearing an incorrect or wrong ribbon. Good example, I was on Recruiting duty at 2 different N&MCRCs in Western NY from 1980-85. Way too many Selective Reservist would come in on drill weekends wearing the incorrect ribbons... the big one being the Naval Reserve Medal/ribbon <USN/USNR terminated issuing of award in late 50s when the Armed Forces Reserve Medal was introduced> when they should have been wearing the Naval Reserve Meritorious Service Medal <which is basically the Reserves component 4 year good conduct award>.

I've had relatives in other branches of the service, so I'm pretty good at deciphering military ribbon racks, and picking up on inconsistencies or just stolen valor Bull$h!t. That being said..... if All the branches just practiced from one generic medal/ribbon pool.... each individual would potentially lose that part of his "walking resume," an individual/unit award and recognition. My two + cents

Response by PO3 Edward Riddle made Feb 6 at 2022 11:02 PM

PO3 Edward Riddle — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 23:02:52 -0500

Leave well enough alone.