Should the EIB/EFMB be changed to become a true qualification?

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 07:46:52 -0400

This came up in another thread about the Unit Commander making everyone remove all badges for training.

Should the EIB/EFMB which is currently a one time event to permanent award of the badge be changed to be more inline with the marksmanship badges where you must re-qualify every X period to maintain the badge and title of "expert"

Being a AF Guy, I have no skin in the game, it came up so I thought I would as RP!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 8:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 08:16:23 -0400

There are so many reasons this would be no.
It's a badge to be earned, not a cycling qualification. The logistics would be impossible to accommodate. Could you imagine if every person had to re-qualify all their special qualification badges, or additional skill identifier badges every so often? These schools are already loaded to capacity with Soldiers trying to earn it the first time.
EFMB was at one time one of the hardest badges to earn. I had the choice to go to EFMB or SFAS once. I chose SFAS because I knew I could at least pass it. That year the pass rate for EFMB was 8% throughout the Army.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 9:19 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 09:19:45 -0400

I think not, because having demonstrated these skills proves that you have the knowledge and the capacity to perform at that level. Medics and infantrymen are dealing with highly perishable skills, but these are soldiers that met the standard from their unit, and there's no reason to expect they'd perform worse over time after they return. This seems less true for medics, as medical standards can be a bit more fluid and can change on a monthly basis.

As far as retraining goes, as I said this seems unnecessary. But, EFMB award winners are in a unique position in that they are often tasked with running these events, essentially teaching the standard, and 're-learning' in the process.

How did I do? Haven't had my coffee yet.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 10:28 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:28:37 -0400

While I have not earned either badge, but I certainly know a few that have them. And knowing what I do know, in that those badges are extremely hard to get and are very coveted, making them to be "re-earned" on a regular basis will severely piss a bunch of people off and then all of the high ranking brass will probably start to wonder why no one wants to go for those badges.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 10:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:36:00 -0400

If we are talking about this, then you might as well make Ranger school a re-qual. EIB/EFMB are not as grueling, but to me, it would be the same concept. That's a huge NO. This idea shouldn't even be entertained. Just my opinion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 10:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:45:30 -0400

I don't know of many badges / tabs (except the marksmanship badge) where re-qualification is necessary. There's the CIB, EIB, airborne, air assault, pathfinder, ranger tab, special forces tab, etc. And, there are a lot of medals and ribbons if we want to bring those into the equation.

Personally, I think the question ought to be whether the marksmanship badge should require re qualification -- since none of the others do. Even the goofy driver and mechanic badge (which has the same design and placement as the marksmanship badge) is a one-time qualification.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 12:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 12:51:14 -0400

EFMB: Yes. Any medically related skill should require Continuing education and requalification. Those wearing the EFMB should have to maintain their NREMT at a minimum or relinquish the skill badge.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 8:26 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 20:26:40 -0400

I think I may be a little emotional today for some reason...

I have been awarded both the Combat Medical Badge and the Expert Field Medical Badge. My class started with 432 and 9 graduated with the badge. I worked my @ss off to get that thing and wonder why an IT guy in the AF is questioning an Army award. I guess since I haven't jumped out of a plane in a decade or so, I should lose that one too. I'm not really trying to be disrespectful, but I would never question an AF award.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 16 at 2015 9:11 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:11:27 -0400

No, the badge is a symbol of accomplishment, not a qualification. Once you meet the standard, you've met it. if we change the standard for the EIB and EFMB, the we should re qualify all badges and tabs.

The time , effort and funding for these requalifications wouldn't justify the need. We expect the troops to remain qualified in their MOS and leaders to ensure that it happens.

Response by SFC James Beason made Jun 17 at 2015 1:04 PM

SFC James Beason — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:04:08 -0400

True not as grueling as Ranger school or the SF Q-course,but in my unit in the mid 80's the standard was very high and I worked my butt off to get,and I am very proud of it.

Response by SSG Rhett Harris made Jun 17 at 2015 1:28 PM

SSG Rhett Harris — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:28:14 -0400

While I see logic to both positions, my opinion is that it remain a one time award. I am a holder of the EIB and although no longer in the Army and remembering how difficult it was to attain once, the thought of having to go through an annual requal is not pleasant. We have our "performance band" of operational readiness, at least we did when I was active, with that sine wave of individual/unit readiness. Ideally the trough of that wave was still within the band parameters but not somewhere we want to reside. EIB and EFMB represent the peak of that wave and is also somewhere it is not practical to reside. Especially considering all the other readiness exercises and evaluations one has to participate in. If I remember correctly, only 10% or 11% of the soldiers who tested passed and received that coveted blue badge. Not quite as rigorous as the EFMB but certainly within spitting distance. Besides, there is an annual PT test and marksmanship qualification test. Think of it this way, you train up to run a marathon or do an Ironman distance triathlon, for example. You are at the peak of your physical fitness but you cannot maintain that level for an extended duration. Same applies here. Recognize the achievement for what it is and enjoy the accomplishment.

Response by SGT Paul Ferrell made Jun 17 at 2015 1:44 PM

SGT Paul Ferrell — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:44:04 -0400

If you are awarded a badge for training and AR-670-1 allows for it to be displayed on your uniform then you should be permitted to wear it. The EIB is an award for an accomplishment, just like an ARCOM, Unit Citation, Combat Patch ..... these do not require re-certification. The idea that you would need to re-qualify is just stupid. I assume it would not be welcomed all that warmly in the ranks.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 17 at 2015 2:21 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:21:29 -0400

No.

I earned mine in 1997 at Fort Wainwright. It was a grueling set of tasks, not just weapon proficiency, that demonstrated commitment and care about the infantry profession, not to mention expert-level competency. It has such a small percentage of people who earn it each time for a reason.

Did I forget any of the tasks in the intervening years? Perhaps, plus, some of the equipment and tasks have invariably changed since I did them. But my chain of command can rightly see it as a reflection on the kind of soldier that I am.

That said, most wear the CIB instead, if they have both. If my battalion commander said to take it, along with all other badges off, no protest, though. I just don't believe we should have to "recertify" for an award that is a reward for a significant achievement. We should send the elevator back down to the ground floor for new infantrymen.

Response by SGT Don Matyja made Jun 17 at 2015 3:01 PM

SGT Don Matyja — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:01:30 -0400

that is interesting ? since i recieved my EIB when i was PFC i found most of the solders that thought this way had not recieve one them selfs

Response by SPC Michael Trotman made Jun 17 at 2015 3:12 PM

SPC Michael Trotman — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:12:02 -0400

No,the EIB is a prestigious badge, that is hard enough to earn in its own right. I'm not opposed to limiting the number of times a soldier may test for this, but not re-qualify... what then, are we going to set levels of skill for line unit infantrymen, like marksman infantry badge or sharpgrunter?

Response by SPC Michael Trotman made Jun 17 at 2015 3:22 PM

SPC Michael Trotman — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:22:20 -0400

NO.... maybe limit the number of times a soldier may test??? or have it at the end of A.I.T.
... and those who get it get a promotion right there....

Response by WO1 Matthew Scraper made Jun 17 at 2015 3:30 PM

WO1 Matthew Scraper — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:30:18 -0400

As I mentioned in my response below, if these badges required a recertification, who would run the testing? When I earned my EIB, the testing stations were run by infantryman that had already earned the badge.

I would disagree strongly with a recert requirement. You may as well do away with the badges altogether if you're going to require that. They won't mean as much.

Response by SPC Lance Davis made Jun 17 at 2015 3:30 PM

SPC Lance Davis — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:30:21 -0400

I can't see changing the standard practice of EIB/EFMB to annual testing for the simple fact that I tested at 3 different duty stations before getting my EIB. The testing standards were the same at each but the interpretations were different at each station.

Being I was 11B I was expected to maintain all my skill sets and review as well as teach them to my subordinates.

I say "HELL NO" to changing the requirements on the badges.

Response by SGT Josh Suchoski made Jun 17 at 2015 4:00 PM

SGT Josh Suchoski — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:00:19 -0400

Anyone who's ever participated in EIB knows that it is a grueling ordeal. Not so much the tasks portion, but the ruck march. I personally ruptured a disc preparing for EIB. This portion of the EIB is really tough on a body, and for good reason. To truly be Expert Infantry, one must be physically and mentally hardened. But this type of thing, repeatedly done would cause unwarranted injuries and waste a soldiers physical assets. The only way this could be done repeatedly is if you were to lower the standard..... An THAT is just not acceptable. Win it once, wear it always.

Response by SPC Dean J. Thompson made Jun 17 at 2015 4:34 PM

SPC Dean J. Thompson — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:34:27 -0400

I would say no. I took the EIB qualification course and made it through the PT, 12 mile march, land nav., first aid, radio ops. and a few other tasks. Failed by one bad click on calibrating the damed M2 50 cal...I was so pissed at myself...I was one of the people many others came to for help setting up their 50 cal...100s of good calibrations and one bad one when you need it just blows your entire day out of the water...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2015 4:59 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:59:35 -0400

No it should not be a re-qualifying task, as this is an elite award given to select Infantrymen who go through grueling and strict tasks to prove themselves as experts in their skillset, boost confidence , leadership skills, and builds morale. This is what sets individuals apart and drives other infantrymen to strive to get it. If it's just another annual qual then it would be treated as just another day or days in the field. Every infantryman has to re-qual with m4, 240, 249, ect... Retake the APFT, and do training throughout the year on various tasks. Now I would say by re-qualifying/passing all of these tasks are sufficient in proving they are still capable to do their jobs.

Response by SSG Adam Wyatt made Jun 17 at 2015 5:37 PM

SSG Adam Wyatt — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:37:07 -0400

No. Everyone knows there is the EIB way and the real way to do things. Not short cuts. Just trade secrets. I'm sure it's the same for EFMB. Like using an IV drip chamber as a field expedient cricothyrotomy. Great in the real world but "you are a No Go at this station" in training.

Response by 1SG Todd Sullivan made Jun 17 at 2015 5:44 PM

1SG Todd Sullivan — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:44:44 -0400

No!!! If everyone was meant to have it they would. And I think sterile for training and combat is where it's at... I think sterile other than class A's is a good idea too, BUT YOU EARNED IT YOU WEAR IT... In garrison.

Response by SSG Timothy McCoy made Jun 17 at 2015 6:06 PM

SSG Timothy McCoy — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 18:06:05 -0400

Heavens NO. I am not in favor in the Requiring to requalify periodically for the EIB and or the EFMB.
As a proud retired holder of an EIB, here are my reasons not requal'ing;
1) If you are an active in your Medical, Infantry, or Special Forces MOSs, then these basic skills will be brushed up everyday IAW your units Doctrine, SOPs, and "battle drills".
2) The time wasted on requaling, would insurmountable. With all the demobs, IPQ, MOS schools and the other time robbers, one cycle would finish and then go right back into the next, Kind of like the old MOS Skills Qual book we had to keep up all soldiers.
3) When a soldier leaves that MOS they will have that Tee-shirts on their uniforms that can answer that unspoken question of "WeLL Yes. As a matter of fact, I do know what I am talking about!" A badge of honor of sorts. Similar to having the Sr or Master Jump Wings says immediately that I have been some where an have done something in my past.

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Jun 17 at 2015 6:41 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 18:41:09 -0400

EIB used to be REALLY TOUGH!!! In 1956 only 35 soldiers in the Third Infantry Division earned the EIB. Started with about 18,000 troops!

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Jun 17 at 2015 6:43 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 18:43:54 -0400

I'm taking my EIB and CIB to my grave!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2015 7:23 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 19:23:54 -0400

I wasn't infantry or a medic, so the importance of the award doesn't matter to me. However, my understanding of those awards and the process to gain them, involves a voluntary competition where common MOS tasks either are conducted under intentionally more difficult than necessary conditions or performed to a degree beyond normal expectations. It's just a badge that denotes a certain level of proficiency and ability to deal with stress at some point in a soldiers career. It is very useful at estimating a soldiers skills regarding those tasks. If I'm digging a foxhole and two soldiers give me advice on how to do it better/faster and one has an EIB, take his advice.
TSgt Joshua Copeland The truth is almost every skill badge in the army has an element of "physical excess" to it. A long bandied truth (when I was in) about airborne school isn't about the difficulty of jumping or prepping to jump; it's the amount of running. It's a discriminating factor to limit the amount of soldiers who wear/earth the badge or tab. Discrimination used in a positive way, By making the courses of instruction more difficult than necessary it forces barriers to entry that must be overcome. Only soldiers who really desire to attend will try to overcome those barriers. This serves two goals. Primarily, the Army gains a self motivated soldier that is trying to better himself and his command has a soldier they don't have to worry about. Second, when the soldier does attend the course, the instructors have a student who wants to be there, fought to be there, and deserves to be there and teaching a student like that is a gift to the teacher.

Response by SGT Ronald Minick made Jun 17 at 2015 7:40 PM

SGT Ronald Minick — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 19:40:51 -0400

Yes because skills diminish.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2015 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:26:37 -0400

I been mechanized Infantry for 20 yrs and when the EIB was offered to us while stationed at Ft Hood, Tx in 82' It was required that everyone participated and if you got just one no-go on any task or fail to qualify expert, or complete the 12 mile road march you were then disqualified over all. It is a Badge that is very hard to earn and it takes tons of practice and years honing those skills in order to pass every thing the first time, but at the end of it all it is very rewarding and very special when you have a two or three star General pin the EIB on your chest and it means for a life time and no it should not be where you have to re-qualify for it every year. The CIB is a one time shot for most and two time shot for some and this my dear fellow soldiers/friends is something that is earned during war time and it distinguishes you from someone that has not experience war, it also shows you proved you are and was combat ready as a lean mean fighting killing machine that defended your country with all your might, pride and risking your life for and I would have to tell a Commander that I would flat out refuse to take either my EIB or CIB off during anything just so I can look like everyone else that hasn't experienced either one of them! I fought in Desert Storm War 91' out of Germany and a very good friend of mine was blown up to pieces in his Bradley Fighting Vehicle and then after we fought and killed off the republican guard and assembled into a TAA at 3 am, then an explosion happened in the middle of it not to long after we were in the assembly area. Again my friends eight of our own young soldiers died playing around with those cluster bombs that failed to go off and I with 10 other of my soldiers in my platoon had to bag and tag what was left of them in order to get them prepped to be shipped back home. So I ask do you think I am willing to take off my EIB / CIB just because a commander wants everyone to look equal? Heck no I earned it once and that was it. Also as it as always been to where the Vietnam Vets with CIBs trained us to fight and kill the enemy and it was our turn to do the same for the young soldiers that came after the war so they be combat ready as well. The ones with the expertise does the training of certain tasks to our young soldiers and then we the ones with the badge do the testing of them. As for weapons qualification, I for one agree to qualify every six months in order to stay sharp at your shooting skills, as it is with the PT test, every six months with E-7s and above grading the younger ranks. But we are graded in advance by either our peers or seniors and with officers. What are your questions? Remember the Infantry is the back bone of any and all task force that goes to war with a enemy and this is where this MOS separates the boys from the men!! Remember the Spartans? they pride them selves as being what I say like infantry soldiers we are today! We fight to the end, for there is no delaying, no re-treating, no holding ground, only advancing forward and kill the threat completely and accomplish the mission fully!!! Spartans Kills Tanks!!! Friedburg Germany 1/36 Mech Inf....Whowaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by CPO Gregory Smith made Jun 17 at 2015 10:57 PM

CPO Gregory Smith — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:57:05 -0400

In the Navy we have warfare designator for almost every community. To earn them a Sailor has to complete written and practical tests as well as pass an oral board. Some are more difficult than others but if you transfer to another community you have to requal when you return. For example; I'm a Seabee, I earned a Seabee Combat Warfare (BN) designator. If I PCS to anywhere other than another Seabee battalion I have to requal within 6 months of returning to battalion. Even if I transfer within the Seabee community I need to Qual with the new unit for unit specific items. Same goes for all of the warfare communities in yhe Navy. So yall Army guys,--- quit ur bitchin...

Response by LTC Joe Dickey made Jun 17 at 2015 11:24 PM

LTC Joe Dickey — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 23:24:44 -0400

No. That's just dumb.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 12:32 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:32:48 -0400

The fact is the EIB (Expert Infantryman Badge) and the EFMB (Expert Field Medical Badge) are not badges but awards for completing the required paracticum. Therefore a requal or recert is unnecessary - they are awarded for meeting certain criteria. The equivelent would be to requal or recert for CIB (Combat Infantryman Badge), CMB (Combat Medical Badge), CAB (Combat Action Badge) or for the Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard the Combat Action Ribbon, and for the Air Force Combat Action Medal. Not much fun to requal or recert combat to wear the associated badge/ribbon or medal huh?

Response by SFC Kevin Cornett made Jun 18 at 2015 12:34 AM

SFC Kevin Cornett — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:34:37 -0400

****I cut and pasted one of my replies to the comments below****

If you (and any individual that is confused as to what the EIB/EFMB actually is) want to know what the requirements are, and the idea behind these awards, I would suggest you review AR 600-8-22, and DA Pam 40-20 (EFMB). Again, these badges are awarded after completion of criteria, just like Air Assault, Just like Airborne, Just like the Ranger Tab (I am not comparing the difficulty level, just the completion of a set criteria/school = earned right to wear badge/tab).
As far as being proficient in skills/tasks; Medics are required to complete the 68W training table 8every year to maintain the MOS. That has to happen whether or not they have a CMB/EFMB.

To be perfectly honest, there seems to be some badge/award envy or maybe if they are holders of the badge, some unnecessary protectionism of them.
You meet the requirements, you attend the course, you complete all tasks, you get awarded the badge. That is it. Any Medic or Infantryman may attempt to earn their respective badges at any time; Many try, and most fail. Why are you interested in taking these badges away from those that didn't fail?

Response by MAJ John Storer made Jun 18 at 2015 8:32 AM

MAJ John Storer — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 08:32:24 -0400

No. If you do that the. You should make the Parachutist badge, Air Assault badge, Ranger Tab, et al a requal.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jun 18 at 2015 8:36 AM

SSG Robert Webster — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 08:36:29 -0400

After reading some of the remarks on this subject; Why not just bring back Pro Pay, in conjunction with your desire to be all inclusive, etc.? If you can not understand what I am saying, I will be just an old fuddy duddy and say STFU.

Response by SSG Ray Fryling made Jun 18 at 2015 9:31 AM

SSG Ray Fryling — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:31:11 -0400

i had my CIB before i earned my EIB. i got the EIB almost by accident. After I trained my Squad instead of sitting back and watching them test I tested to. 40% of my Squad EARNED their EIB that week, Including me.

Response by SPC Joseph Durham made Jun 18 at 2015 9:35 AM

SPC Joseph Durham — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 09:35:20 -0400

Let's change it around. Can a soldier lose his marksman ship ability? Sure. Just the lack of going to the range to shoot can lower a soldier's ability to keep his weapon on target. But can a soldier lose his training? Can he forget basic concepts of how to handle a weapon? Throw a grenade? Land navigation? Individual combat movement techniques? How to clear a building? Camouflage? And more? More than likely NO. And if a soldier somehow did, how? It's a soldiers job to stay ready for combat. That soldier's leadership would have to take 100% of the blame. The misuse of training time. You don't need a lot of room to train either. The same area you hold formations in you can practice drawing range cards for individuals up to the whole company and get command practice you'll need in the field. Your Squad Leader's can help their soldiers and Platoon Leader's can help the Squad Leader's. Practice deliberate assaults on a squad and platoon level. So, should the EIB have re-qualifications? No. It's just too easy to stay qualified after earning it.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Jun 18 at 2015 10:08 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:08:13 -0400

I received (earned) my EIB in 1986 in Panama. We had 2 battalions of Infantry
, plus Infantrymen from other brigade (193rd Inf Brigade) assets. Also testing with us were SF guys from 3/7SFG. At our awards ceremony, 8 of us were awarded the Expert Infantry Badge. You have no skin in this game, so why bring up an award you know nothing about?
I earned my first Army Achievement Medal for being selected U.S Army South Soldier of the Month. Should I have to recertify for that too?

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Jun 18 at 2015 10:13 AM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:13:38 -0400

Combat medics always looked at the EFMB as a pog badge.. since they usually do EIB and EFMB at the same time.. Combat medics are covering their guys for EIB. Never had the opportunity.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 18 at 2015 11:42 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:42:36 -0400

Response by SSG Jeff Binkiewicz made Jun 18 at 2015 1:08 PM

SSG Jeff Binkiewicz — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:08:19 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 1:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:11:55 -0400

Yes I agree that it should be a true qualification.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made Jun 18 at 2015 11:05 PM

MSG Robert Mills — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 23:05:24 -0400

Hell no!!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 19 at 2015 10:21 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:21:16 -0400

TSgt Joshua Copeland Good question, but I say NO. That would essentially mean every badge the Army has (minus weapons qualifications and PT award, which are 6 months/annual), would require annual re-qualification? There is as you well know a long list of tabs and badges... that are all lifetime awards once earned... Not sure how or why we do that/manage this.

CIB
CMB
CAB
Airborne
Rigger
Air Assault
Pathfinder
Halo (Free Fall Parachutist)
Suba
Diver
Pilot
Air Crew
Astronaut (yes)
EOD
EIB
EFMB
Driver's
Army Staff
Joint Staff
Tomb Guard
Drill Sergeant
Recruiter
Presidents Hundred
Sapper
Special Forces
Ranger

etc...

Certain specialities require certifications semi annually/annually, or when you go back to the job... K-9 handler, Tankers, Aviators... etc...

That would mean the USAF would do the same with all their badges and awards?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Army

Badges of the United States Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Badges of the United States Army are military decorations issued by the United States Department of the Army to soldiers who achieve a variety of qualifications and accomplishments while serving on active and reserve duty in the United States Army.

Response by MAJ James Crouch made Jun 19 at 2015 10:33 AM

MAJ James Crouch — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:33:54 -0400

Your logic totally misses the mark. Army regulations require annual marksmanship qualification.
The Ranger tab and Parachutist badge are awarded on a one-time basis because you successfully complete the respective courses. The EIB/EFMB are a series of tests that must be passed in order for the badge to be awarded.
Bottom line is that regulations require requalification annually, therefore it is a temporary award.
The others are awarded on a permanent basis.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Jun 20 at 2015 3:37 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 03:37:16 -0400

Army Aviators are required to stay current and have to pass annual, at the least, flight, and oral examinations or loose their flight status, flight pay, flight suit, aviator sun glasses (no not the sunglasses), OK, maybe not the sunglasses. But, here I go, speaking without knowledge, I think they get to keep the wings. Once you earn them, you keep them. One of the old W4s or W5 can fill us all in on that.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jun 20 at 2015 3:26 PM

SSG John Jensen — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 15:26:33 -0400

no.
for servicemen who change MOSs (lots of Nat'l Guard and Reserve) that pride of accomplishment of earlier service, when you have that badge, not just EIB/EFMB, but Jump Wings, Air Assault, Submariner, Ranger Tab, and other badges to earn when you're young and dumb.
When you're old and fat and broken down, that pride adds to all of the service.
The clerk/typist with an EIB, the cook (I've seen a couple) that you'ld question how they made tape with Jump Wings and Ranger Tab, and me, my knees and ankles don't like me for the time that I spent jumping out of airplanes as a band-aid pusher.
A lot of you see that badge with some assumption of the soldier active in that branch - I see it more on someone who used to be in that branch and has the pride of being an expert in a brach that they are no longer in.

Response by SGT William Harding made Jun 20 at 2015 5:02 PM

SGT William Harding — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:02:11 -0400

If it ain't broke don't fix it. That commander for training needs to follow the army regs. Manual. Those badges were earned. So I guess people will have to go and do another combat jump or be in another combat situation to keep those badges and patches as well. Morons...

Response by SPC Kortney Kistler made Jun 21 at 2015 9:54 PM

SPC Kortney Kistler — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:54:24 -0400

You people worry about badges when there are far too many "soldiers" who have difficulties with CTT (That's everybody's job regardless of the MOS, too many people fail to realize this and it slips by the wayside). It's was a sad state of affairs when I'd witnessed a squad fail for hours attempting to set up a GP medium. It's 6 soldiers and 15 minutes.

As far as the army is concerned, once you MOSQ you are an expert, period. You being an expert makes you accountable.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 11:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jun 2015 23:04:35 -0400

If you do that then you would have to do it with other "awards", that require training....like airborne, air assault, pathfinder. Then the problem you would run into is that every EIB holder has to "re certify" then who is "re certifying" them? The number of EIB candidates is already hard to handle because of the small number of EIB holders. I have an EIB and I can tell you it is TOUGH to get, some places don't conduct EIB testing regularly so that would be another issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 11:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 11:53:20 -0400

I earned my EIB in 1965 and wore it with pride on my uniform even after the award of the CIB. Once you earn the EIB/EFMB it's yours. No I don't believe in re-qualifying every few months or couple years.

Response by SPC Gregory Taylor made Jun 24 at 2015 3:10 PM

SPC Gregory Taylor — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:10:25 -0400

As someone who proudly earned his EIB the first time out, I can say that it should be a permanent award/badge just like my jump wings were, it's like saying if you earn the parachutist badge and are not in an active airborne unit that you should not be allowed to wear it. The Army has changed so much since I left and it's become way too PC and I believe that has tremendously hurt the combat-readiness and morale of most units, sad but true. I appreciate the sacrifices made by our brave men and women in uniform but politics has NO PLACE among the ranks...PERIOD!

Response by SGT Randall .jay Gamble made Jun 24 at 2015 5:31 PM

SGT Randall .jay Gamble — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:31:49 -0400

no they both should stay as is.

Response by SSG Paul Horne made Jun 24 at 2015 6:04 PM

SSG Paul Horne — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:04:04 -0400

As someone who earned the EIB, I think that is wrong. If you make that badge a qualification, you should make all badges qualifications. So, the ranger tab should be re-earned every four years? That would thin the ranks of the older rangers, wouldn't it. Should a CIB be taken away if there is another active war to earn one in? You have a qualification test. It was called the skills test. I am tired of every "new" commander thinking that his way is far superior than his predecessors. These egocentric people only care about their personal glory and not about tradition. I earned my EIB almost 40 years ago. Back when this "commander" was in diapers. Wanna mess with my Drill Sergeants Badge? "This we'll defend"!

Response by SSG William Buffington made Jun 24 at 2015 7:06 PM

SSG William Buffington — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 19:06:16 -0400

Hell no when I got my EIB at Ft Bragg June 1978 ,38 of us tested 3 of us were worthy and I do mean worthy(1 Sgt &me and another SP4) as the gates are guarded by those who wear it proudly,that's what makes it so damn hard to get.......

Response by MSG Karl Arrington made Jun 25 at 2015 12:04 AM

MSG Karl Arrington — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 00:04:48 -0400

No, I don't think it should be changed. I see no reason to do that.

Response by MSG Darrell Taylor made Jun 26 at 2015 12:57 PM

MSG Darrell Taylor — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:57:22 -0400

Since these are already rigorous badges to earn, I don't think a full requal should be required. However I do think that Soldiers should have to show EIB/ EFMB level skills on new equipment and tactics. For example, I earned my EIB when the M60 and Dragon (anti-tank weapon) were standard equipment. I should now have to test out on the M240B and Javelin in order to keep the badge.

Response by SP5 Patrick Rita Lovell made Jul 3 at 2015 10:59 PM

SP5 Patrick Rita Lovell — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 22:59:24 -0400

Absolutely not, the EIB is an incredibly difficult accomplishment, to think that you would achieve this to only have to re-qualify the following year is ridiculous. There are plenty of yearly based mileposts for the success or the fully trained determination of an Infantryman, the Expert Infantry Badge should not be changes. Sgt. Patrick Lovell

Response by SGT Randall .jay Gamble made Sep 10 at 2015 2:12 PM

SGT Randall .jay Gamble — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:12:50 -0400

Ah heck no . i've never served in a combat zone , i did serve though 12 yrs in AKRNG i know this is an honor , to get so lets leave it as such.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 4:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:12:14 -0400

When I was a drill sergeant at Fort Benning, I used to wonder why we didn't do an EIB test during FTX. Everything we did was geared toward teaching the same tasks. What better way to see if the Soldiers retained the knowledge?!

Response by SP5 Patrick Rita Lovell made Sep 11 at 2015 8:12 AM

SP5 Patrick Rita Lovell — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:12:27 -0400

This award is designed to test the skills of an Infantryman or Medic, you earn these awards through hard work, preparation and execution, to even consider that this award would be removed because of some predetermined time limit and require requalification is a ridiculous idea, not to mention the logistical nightmare that requalifications would cause. I suppose the next suggestion would be a "shelf life" on the Combat Infantry Badge?
We should continue to reevaluate the standards by which we measure ourselves as soldiers, to ensure that our soldiers are the best prepared, most ready, most capable fighting force in the world, we should show great care in reducing any standards that effect the performance of our soldiers, but to change awards such as the EIB and the EFMB provides no improvement to performance or readiness. DX this idea, move out, draw fire...

Response by LTC John Griscom made Sep 24 at 2017 10:02 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 10:02:57 -0400

It's a skill badge like airborne, pathfinder,etc. where once is enough. Not like an annual trip to the range.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Mar 24 at 2018 5:04 PM

LTC Russ Smith — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:04:19 -0400

I earned my EIB in December 1983 as a corporal at Fort Ord California. I was a reservist. We were attached for training to one of the brigades over there I suppose that was putting on the test. Very few qualified. You can have it when you pry it grill my cold, dead, hands. 22 years later I had to replace it with a combat action badge from my service in Iraq. I think I may have worked harder for the EIB.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 25 at 2018 12:03 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 12:03:56 -0400

It cost a time of money to set a BN wide EIB program, and takes roughly 2 weeks training for a 3-4 day course. Adding in the necessary qualifications, most which are required semi-annually or annually. (Wpns, NBC, PT. etc.)

Response by SSG Paul Newman made Sep 18 at 2018 10:40 PM

SSG Paul Newman — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:40:24 -0400

I remember when I got my EFMB. A. A CSM with the CMB told us the day we (14 of 68 candidates) got our badges that a lot of the soldiers who got the CMB got theirs the easy way, because "all they did was get shot at and a lot of them wouldn't pass the test if they took it." I remembered feeling uneasy, thinking I guess he would know, but it seemed a little disrespectful of those guys. He didn't say if that included him. He did tell us to go back to our units and train the other guys to be good enough to earn it, even if they didn't take the test. I'm not sure public speaking was his strong suit, but I got his meaning. And no, if your not a grunt or a medic you shouldn't get the badge and having won it it's yours. You have nothing to prove by taking it every year. It's about your mind not your eye. You may need glasses next year and not be able to hit all the targets at the range. But your not going to loose your ability to make the right decisions just because you're wearing new glasses. That's what the EFMB and EIB are about. Knowing what to do and doing it the way it's supposed to be done to an expert degree. I can drive a truck and pass a test about driving trucks but it doesn't make me an expert, because I'm not a truck driver.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2018 10:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:18:25 -0400

If they are going to remain MOS specific badges, then yes. Tankers can't continue to wear their boots if their qualifications are out of date. The same should apply.