Should the Department of the Army release the reasons that a NCO was NOT picked up by a DA Centralized Promotion Board?

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 21 May 2015 23:38:28 -0400

The Department of the Army REQUIRES that Soldiers up to Staff Sergeant be counseled as to why, specifically, they did not get promoted. HOWEVER from e-7 up, NO ONE will tell you what kept you from getting promoted. There is NO TRANSPARENCY at all in the Senior enlisted promotions system. I think this is unacceptable, but as it is no one can file suit for discrimination. I think that at the time I retired (2005) Equal Opportunity "Goals" were more important than qualifications...I bet I am not the only one who feels that way.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 21 at 2015 11:46 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 21 May 2015 23:46:13 -0400

No. I don't think so.

Everyone knows what the standard is for selection to the next level. I well understand, when we don't get selected (we are all non-select for something), we always want to know the answer to - what was wrong with my file, what was wrong with me.

Promotions boards first select all who qualified, then they select the best qualified, then they rank order the best qualified from 1 to n and draw a cut line. Those selected for promotion are based on the slots/spaces available.

I too, would like to know why I was selected, why I did not get the job, etc., but there is not enough time in the day to provide that level of feedback.

In the current era, with the Army downsizing, and many NCO pay grades/MOSs over-strength, the reality is NCOs that might have been selected during normal times, are not getting selected. That is what happens when we have too many faces for the spaces.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 12:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 00:07:14 -0400

I understand your point and issue with it, but there is no way this is going to happen. If you have had the chance to listen to either a branch manager or a CSM that has sat on a DA centralized board, you would know each board member has about 3 minutes MAX to look at a packet.

If you look into the board AAR (to be honest, I don't know where to look exactly, but know they are published and released), it will tell you what the cutoffs were for that board. You'll see what was needed to be considered a "6" and be able to determine for yourself what the issue was. It will also list the problem trends they saw.

It has been my experience that DA centralized boards are not doing anything in secret. Just because someone is catering to your specific need to know doesn't mean the information isn't out there for you to find. If you are wanting to be a Senior NCO, you should understand how to research things for yourself.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 2:57 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 02:57:16 -0400

When you are being considered for promotion to SFC and above you are past the "what's the maximum effective range of a M4 carbine" level of promotion boards.

The board members are given specific guidance on what to look for during the board process and truthfully it changes very little from year to year. As a CSM I always counseled my NCOs that were not selected by the centralized promotion board. I used the board AAR as a reference. I also made myself available to look at their records prior to the board although, very few took me up on the offer. That made it very easy to counsel them on why they were not selected.

You are correct there are goals that the board members must achieve, this is usually why you have a delay in releasing the promotion list. That is not any different than how major corporations operate. Regardless of the goal if you have done what you were supposed to do according to your MOS career path not to mention, exceeded your career path. You should not have to worry about "goals" because you should be above your peers anyway.

The centralized promotion board may not be perfect but I do not foresee it changing much in the coming years.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 22 at 2015 7:00 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 22 May 2015 07:00:20 -0400

Isn't it a simple:

We have Y people & X slots. The top X people got promoted. The weighting mechanisms of each year are 'slightly' Subjective, therefore there might not actually be a reason that a specific person did not get promoted other than: Qualified, but no available billeted Rank Slots? or Not-Qualified?

Since boards go in reverse order (highest to lowest), retirements and separations open up advancement opportunities, while drawdowns close them up.

This means that the slots has specified numbers going in. A certain MOS regardless of how many qualified people, may just not have anyone get promoted (by default) because it's closed (no E9 getting out, means no E8/E7 advancement). However, that doesn't mean there won't be some "horsetrading" of slots if there is excess (one MOS doesn't have enough qualified E6+ to advance to E7+).

All that said... there may be no specific reason to give for non-advancement, because there may be no specific deficit to correct.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 7:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 07:13:24 -0400

I whole heartedly believe that you should be told why you did not get selected. I applied for warrant last year, and did not get selected. I have no idea why. How am I supposed to improve myself if I don't know what my deficiencies were? Not knowing only makes you and your leadership guess as to what you need to improve.

This really wouldn't be that difficult to do either. I know there are thousands of nco profiles to consider, but when they choose no, they could annotate why they chose no.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2015 1:16 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 May 2015 01:16:37 -0400

Same is true for officers. For those ranks, it is heavily dependent on OERs and SNCO ER's as well as military and civilian education. Hopefully it would be pretty clear if the SNCOs/officers in the rating chain are doing their jobs and counseling the rated officers/NCOs.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 9 at 2015 4:19 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:19:44 -0400

Yes

Response by SFC Rapfeal Mayfield made Apr 16 at 2017 12:55 AM

SFC Rapfeal Mayfield — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 00:55:25 -0400

I do think it would be beneficial to that Soldier, but duty to time constraints and the the amount of files that have to be looked at I do understand why it is not being done.

I think that the AAR gives everyone an idea of what the board was looking for, then if you are not selected you can take a look at you file, compare it to the AAR comments and make corrections for the next board.