Should the Army do something to represent two same-class badges such as EIB/CIB and EFMB/CFMB?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:08:00 -0500

For instance, if a Soldier earned both a CIB and EIB, they are not able to wear both.  I believe we should either be able to wear both or have some other way to distinguish someone who has both.  Maybe a full color badge with the ACU if you earned both badges?  Just a thought.<div><br></div><div>I actually never wear my EIB, despite the fact that only about 10% of my MOS has one.  The CIB is considered a more "esteemed" badge.  <br><div><br></div><div>The EFMB and CFMB medic badges also fall into this category.</div></div>

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 10:08 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:08:51 -0500

There's been talk about that for a bit now.

I think that some sort of recognition of having both would be appropriate .

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 10:19 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:19:45 -0500

What a great question, as a infantryman that has earned both badges I personally would like to see something that combines both badges but I am more interested if the Army plans on creating an Expert Action Badge for our other MOS' once combat deployments stop. Nothing to me is better than the opportunity for our soldiers to become experts in skill level one tasks and there's no better way to test that knowledge then a test like the EIB or EFMB. 

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 10:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:32:57 -0500

I definitely think this should be something we are considering.  Those have that have earned both awards are definitely a step above their peers, why shouldn't they be able to show it? 

Response by SFC Josh Watson made Feb 10 at 2014 6:07 PM

SFC Josh Watson — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 18:07:35 -0500

I've heard talk in the past about his subject also. I think a simple answer to this would be to make the musket and/or the wreath on the CIB gold, denoting both the EIB, and CIB have been earned. Just my thoughts though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 6:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 18:15:02 -0500

I'm on the fence about change so I would recommend that no change occur to the award of wearable classes on the ACU but would like to be able to wear multiple Class I and II badges on the dress uniform.
We could argue that it is possible to run out of room above the breast pocket so it could read that if multiple Class I or II badges are worn no more than three rows of ribbons/medals be worn.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 7:12 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:12:30 -0500

From a completely outside perspective (I'm aviation), I have senior crewmember wings. There's no 'combat crew wings', and the wings are awarded by the MOS, even to those who don't actually crew. To me that's absurd but besides the point. I'm about to go to flight school though, and I'll have aviator wings, and I will not be able to wear both. I don't mind that at all as I rarely ever put any badges at all (wings, air assault, cab(actually earned)). My ASU's tell all, but my duty uniform eh, it gets dirty. I do not know if wearing aviator wings is REQUIRED, but if given the option, it's only going to go on my ASU's. Leave the eye candy for the ASU's is my take I suppose. That being said, no one really cares what's on anyone's chest in duty uniform. Combat patch, and tabs should pretty much say all the bragging to be quite frank.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2014 4:01 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Apr 2014 16:01:52 -0400

I believe the same issue is encountered with the CAB and EFMB. Before, you could wear EFMB and a CAB. However, the new AR 670-1 does not allow that. I believe you should be able to wear both. EIB and EFMB are extremely hard to earn. Yet, it is also nice to show some kind of combat action experience (CIB, CMB, CAB).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 7:26 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 07:26:41 -0400

In DA Pam 670-1, Ch 22–16 (Combat and special skill badges and tabs), para 7d(2) "Personnel may wear up to five badges above the U.S. Army tape so long as space allows for the badges on the individual’s uniform. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badge from either group 1 or group 2. Soldiers may wear up to five badges from groups 3 and 4. One badge from either group 1 or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 so long as the total number of badges on the combat uniform does not exceed five."

Now look at the attached figure 22-63. They show a CIB (cat1) worn with a CMB (cat2). Soooooo, is this an error? Am I reading this wrong?

It provides the same type example in fig 22-56, on the ASU. A CIB (cat 1) and an EFMB (cat 2) worn together. VERY confusing, and I think it needs re-worded, different picture examples, or some clarity. In the MEDDAC, we have guys who have both an EFMB and a CAB, but seems like they must choose either or...

I'm assigned to a MEDDAC, and I don't want to assume, but I believe it's saying "wear one badge from cat 1, or one badge from cat 2, but not both at the same time...

THOUGHTS?

Response by SGT Shon D. Hill made Apr 29 at 2014 9:18 AM

SGT Shon D. Hill — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:18:57 -0400

Awesome post! Yes please Sir, ma'am, Sergeant, etc...I earned both the EFMB (as a young 19 year-old PFC, much to my surprise lol!) and 10 years later earned CMB in Iraq (would gladly give it back to have 3 brothers return home). It would be great to somehow show both awards, same for da' grunts ;)

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 12:39 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 May 2014 00:39:31 -0400

I've both and don't feel slighted in the least. There's probably something more important to worry about.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 2:48 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:48:52 -0400

I think SFC Watson is on to something. Gold trimmed CIB or CFMB would do the trick, and easy to create for the subdued version.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 11:00 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 23:00:25 -0400

I like the idea put forth earlier about Gold leaf around the musket, wouldn't be that hard, they already do it for combat jumps with their gold stars.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2014 10:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 22:20:13 -0400

I like this idea. They should make a Master Infantry Badge (MIB). I got bored and threw something together. I would sport this. What say you? Everyone else is getting badges, the infantry is due for something new.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 8:43 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 08:43:36 -0400

I'll probably get jumped for this but oh we'll. The EIB is earned, the CIB is awarded, just like the EFMB is earned and the CMB is awarded.
I know dozens of people who EARNED their badges and dozens more that we're awarded them merely for being there.

Response by SSG Lucas Lisitza made Jul 4 at 2014 10:34 AM

SSG Lucas Lisitza — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 10:34:52 -0400

I earned both the EIB (as a 19 year old private in Korea) and the CIB (as a 20 year old Sergeant outside of Fallujah). To be honest, I don't feel that this is a question of great importance, but I will throw my 2 cents into the ring and see what happens.

I have never been one to admire awards. Too often I saw higher ranking SM's with a chest full of awards and school badges hiding behind walls and failing to lead their men. Conversely, the Private with little experience, no schools, and no awards would be the ones charging into the breach without a moments hesitation.

After being awarded (and legitimately earning) my CIB, I chose to wear my EIB on my dress uniforms (much to the irritation of senior enlisted). I wore my EIB because I felt I had to work harder for that recognition than I did for my CIB. My CIB simply required me to do my job better than the enemy and, hopefully, survive. The other reason I treasure my EIB more than the CIB is because of the outrageous number of people I saw running and screaming to S-1 to put in their paperwork because a mortar round landed 500 meters away just outside the FOB or an IED hit the last vehicle in their convoy while they sat in the first vehicle (a mile away).

In the end I don't put too much stock into awards until I meet the person and find who they really are under their chest plate of thin metal strips and pulled colorful fabric.

Just my 2 cents.

Response by CSM Richard Montcalm made Jul 21 at 2014 3:17 AM

CSM Richard Montcalm — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:17:43 -0400

Why should the Army waste more time and money to produce 2 more badges to stroke the egos of a small group of people? The small group of which I speak are those that feel the need to have their entire 201 file on display on their uniforms and POVs. These are the same type of folks that think everyone should get a trophy for playing a sport.

Don't give the SMA any more ideas about changing the uniform, again. The Good Idea Fairy already has a desk and receptionist in his office.

The real question should be- how would this action support my unit in combat? Answer- it doesn't, so it's not important.

BTW, I have both, and it was harder to earn my EIB than my CIB

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 01:45:40 -0500

I totally agree with you CW2 Private RallyPoint Member.

One solution might be a redesign of the badge completely. There should be a way to distinguish those who have earned the coveted EIB or EFMB respectively as these show excellence within the M.O.S.

It could be something that an individual could submit and get recognized for.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 1:58 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 01:58:43 -0500

A CIB with gold trim to recognize both would be interesting. I have both and I wear my EIB 99% of the time. I really only catch flack about wearing the EIB instead of CIB from people who have tested for EIB and failed, to which they love stating the CIB takes precedence over the EIB and that I am jacked up...

I always have to direct them to paragraph 22-16 in DA Pam 670-1

(5) The order of precedence for combat and special skill badges are established only by group. There is no precedence for combat or special skill badges within the same group. For example, personnel who are authorized to wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of wear between those two badges.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 24 at 2015 1:14 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:14:26 -0400

And for us ex-cool kids who turned POG, what about the EIB and CAB issue?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 1:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:18:00 -0400

I think some ad-on symbol on the combat badge showing both were earned would be appropriate.

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Jun 17 at 2015 6:14 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 18:14:35 -0400

Good idea!

Response by SSG John Erny made Jun 19 at 2015 4:27 PM

SSG John Erny — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:27:40 -0400

Put a bayonet on the rifle fore those who have both, that would look.....Sharp!

Not a ref. to SHARP training.....NO

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 19 at 2015 5:14 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:14:23 -0400

Simple solution to your problem: take both badges to the bandsaw and cut them in half and attach 1/2 of each on to the opposite other and make a new badge that covers both badges.
See how easy that was.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 19 at 2015 5:17 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:17:07 -0400

Even simpler solution: "badges, we don't need no stinkin badges."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 3:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:12:18 -0400

I think it would look funny to wear both EIB and CIB and CMB/EFMB. I do think some kind of mark on the combat badge to show you earned both is good. True the combat badges are awarded; Ive never been in combat but I think that would be more rigorous to me than taking the test, as rigorous the test may be. I was fortunate to have earned the EFMB; I am more proud to wear that than anything else not because it a feather on my cap, but because Im proud to be part of the "fraternity" of our outstanding soldier-medics!

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Sep 12 at 2015 8:25 PM

CPT Jim Schwebach — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:25:29 -0400

Had they used live ammunition and really unfriendly people trying to do me damage personally during my EIB testing and had that testing gone on for three years after I passed I'd be glad to wear my EIB instead of my CIB.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2015 12:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 00:21:58 -0400

EIB+CIB= Gold rifle on award. The same could work for the other awards?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 10:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 10:46:12 -0400

Jesus, like it's not bad enough the our ASUs have so much bling....how about wearing both a CIB and a EIB at the same time? lol

I guess we don't call them "I love me badges" for no reason.

Response by SFC Thomas Van Valkenburg made Nov 2 at 2015 9:48 PM

SFC Thomas Van Valkenburg — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:48:51 -0500

It sounds like someone is really over thinking this, leave it alone. If you tried to go this route then what would you look like if you had the parachutist badge, senior parachutist badge and then the master parachutist badge. You don't want real soldiers to look like the ones you see on you tube under Stolen Valor.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2016 12:01 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:01:14 -0400

It is the chain of command that initiates the necessary paperwork for any awards and that is where the criteria needs to be closely interpreted. I have know REMFs that went to 11B MOSQ but when it came time to be a Grunt, they were deemed totally useless. There is no need for a distinction in having both CIB and EIB, wear the award you want if you have that option. I didn't wear my CIB (earned from harassing small weapons fire) till I survived an IED detonation in my assigned vehicle. The vehicle was a total loss & all paxs survived. I EARNED MY CIB and that's why I wear it.