Should the Airman who defended the train in Europe get a Purple Heart?

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:35:35 -0400

Thinking about the recent discussion here on Rally Point made me wonder what my peers think about this young Airman getting wounded. As the reports come out, there is more and more about this attacker having radicalized ties.

U.S. airman wounded when troops reportedly subdue gunman

UPDATE:3 Americans praised for subduing gunman on European train

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 23 at 2015 10:41 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:41:40 -0400

Maybe? This is such a weird case, because it really is a Global War we are in. He was engaged in "Combat" this could end up getting him things like the Airman's Medal, the Combat Action Medal, and the Purple Heart.... As well as a French Foreign Award. How do you explain that when you show up at your next command and the 1st Sgt starts chewing your butt for wearing Service "Libbos."

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 10:42 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:42:17 -0400

If they qualify based on the circumstances of the attack and their injuries, yes.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 23 at 2015 10:46 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:46:38 -0400

It would depend on if they can prove he was a radical Muslim who was committing a terrorist attack. Right now he is just saying he found the gun in the park and wanted to rob them.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 11:02 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:02:45 -0400

Is the GWOT still an active campaign? When in the military you should be vigilant at all times!

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 23 at 2015 11:37 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:37:35 -0400

Someone try to tell me this A1C and his ARNG buddy weren't in combat....

Absolutely! His wounds were received in combat against a global enemy. He also needs at least a Bronze Star with a V. So does his NG friend. This is the very definition of combat bravery that deserves decoration.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Aug 23 at 2015 11:57 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:57:07 -0400

And, I agree with Capt Richard I P. they should all be decorated. They took on the enemy, bare handed. Bravo. We all know it, but the Nation needs to wake up, the world needs to wake up, this crap is not going away, until the world is radicalized, or we crush it.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Aug 23 at 2015 1:22 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:22:40 -0400

I don't have the Army Regulation in front of me - but given the precidence of the Ft Hood and 2009 Recruiting Station attack IMHO he SHOULD. France should also HIGHLY decorate all the individuals involved. HOAH!!!!

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Aug 23 at 2015 2:01 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:01:58 -0400

Though this incident may have been a terrorist incident, I do not believe that the circumstances warrant a Purple Heart. An Airman's Medal - Definitely a YES. Appropriate awards for the others involved - YES.

With the current information available, it is questionable for a Purple Heart.

And for those of you that would cite the Fort Hood shootings as a precedent, it is not the same.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 2:03 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:03:04 -0400

I think it would be fitting along with whatever other medals are conferred.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 23 at 2015 3:06 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 15:06:44 -0400

I know I'm going to get some crap for this, but no, I don't think he deserves a PH. Should he be awarded/decorated? Yes, of course! Airman's Medal, etc. But not the Purple Heart. NOW, that being said, with the "exceptions" seen recently, I wouldn't be surprised if he did get one.

https://www.hrc.army.mil/tagd/purple%20heart

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 3:13 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 15:13:54 -0400

The Purple Heart will hinge on if the incident will be declared as a "terrorist attack", which service members can be awarded a Purple Heart. Before people get confused, there is a huge difference in the definition of "terrorist" and a member of a violent extremist organization as defined by the DoD and State Department, and a lone gunman scenario. Just because the guy was associated with radical Islamic groups does not mean he was conducting an attack on behalf of a terrorist group, though he most likely was. The same due diligence that is used to screen any award needs to be applied to ensure it meets the criteria.

Also calls for valor awards such as the BSM w/V are completely inappropriate for the situation. The Soldier's/Airman's Medal is the most appropriate award for this incident. The precedence was set during the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon where more Soldier's Medals were awarded than for any other single incident in the history of the award. A Soldier receiving a Soldier's Medal may also have it declared as having been presented for exceptional valor and the soldier may be awarded a small stipend (around $200 a month if I remember right) for life.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2015 5:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:18:34 -0400

If its ruled a terrorist attack yes.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 23 at 2015 5:43 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:43:32 -0400

We went to war with a concept. A Global War on Terror. That in itself opens up many interpretations of where are the battle lines drawn. Fighting terrorism on a train in another country that we support might not be directed at us as a nation but the concept remains. Would I object to him receiving one? Nope. One less a-hole in the world who got taken down before he could proceed. Out-frigging-standing. But we have a POTUS who in my opinion is not a fan of the military until it serves his purpose. I wanted to throw up when I started hearing about 'workplace violence' at Fort Hood. I will be happy if he gets the AF Medal like he deserves. All I know is that I am very grateful for him to be there and to not sit on the sidelines as a victim, but as the warrior all of you in uniform truly are.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 23 at 2015 5:46 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:46:49 -0400

They deserve a promotion and some form of decoration. I am not sure what medal they deserve but perhaps the French have a medal they could bestow as well. They ran towards danger and not away so they were meritorious in their actions,

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 23 at 2015 5:56 PM

SPC David S. — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:56:56 -0400

Bronze Star yes - the Purple Heart as its specifically a combat decoration - I would argue they were in combat so yes to that as well

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 1:05 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:05:09 -0400

IS the attacker a terrorist or a criminal?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 24 at 2015 1:06 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:06:21 -0400

I think we'll have to wait and see how the incident is classified.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 24 at 2015 1:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:38:10 -0400

What did he lose?

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 24 at 2015 1:39 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:39:04 -0400

LT Private RallyPoint Member If it is characterized as a Terrorsit Attack, then based on the criteria he may qualify. I think the key paragraph is the second one! Its going to be up the Recommender and the Awarding Authority. I say he should qualify, just my opinion!

The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after April 5, 1917, has been wounded or killed. Specific examples of services which warrant the Purple Heart include any action against an enemy of the United States; any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged; while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party; as a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces; or as the result of an act of any hostile foreign force. After 28 March 1973, it may be awarded as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack. After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. In the case of an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down by enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made. As well, individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment. Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence, such as by driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence.

A "wound" is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above. A physical lesion is not required; however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record. When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award.

The Purple Heart is not awarded for non-combat injuries.
Enemy-related injuries which justify the award of the Purple Heart include: injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action; injury caused by enemy placed land mine, naval mine, or trap; injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological, or nuclear agent; injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire; and, concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.

Injuries or wounds which do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart include frostbite or trench foot injuries; heat stroke; food poisoning not caused by enemy agents; chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy; battle fatigue; disease not directly caused by enemy agents; accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action; self-inflicted wounds (e.g., a soldier accidentally fires their own gun and the bullet strikes his or her leg), except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence; post-traumatic stress disorders; and jump injuries not caused by enemy action.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 1:40 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:40:08 -0400

Merging with the discussion started yesterday on this.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Aug 24 at 2015 1:56 PM

SPC Douglas Bolton — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:56:22 -0400

I think he totally deserves it. He didn't hesitate to stop a terrorist, just like any soldier in uniform would do, but I am afraid the military code may not agree with us. In my heart he and his friends are true heroes, and that trumps any medal they may receive.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 24 at 2015 2:03 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:03:25 -0400

I'm on the fence with this. I say that because the Marine that was wounded in TN isn't getting a purple heart, and he was in direct contact also with a terrorist and wounded. Hell the CDR who shot back isn't getting anything, and barely got an attaboy out of it. They all should get an award of some kind for their heroism, but not sure if the PH is the way to go on this. Should all of them get a BS/SS with a "V" on it too? BZ to all of them, but I'm not sure on this.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Aug 24 at 2015 7:55 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:55:51 -0400

Looks like the Airman's chain is submitting him for the Airmen's Medal, which logically would preclude the Purple Heart.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 25 at 2015 9:58 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 21:58:48 -0400

Yes - he was responding to a terrorist threat. As far as I know, the GWOT is still on, so this was a combat injury...

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Aug 26 at 2015 8:36 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:36:30 -0400

Absolutely And here is how the Purple Heart Medal commendation should read: Air Force Airman 1st Class Spencer Stone is awarded the Purple Heart for wounds he suffered engaging Ayoub El Khazzani in hand to hand combat on the Amsterdam to Paris train. His actions prevented El Khazzani , an Islamic Terrorist from waging a monsterous carnage on this train

Response by COL Robert Sholly made Aug 27 at 2015 1:47 PM

COL Robert Sholly — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:47:46 -0400

Yes - the criteria for this award is very clear see: (6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.
The military individuals fall under regulation and anyone wounded defending against the attack, is automatically authorized the award IF the Dec Army, Sec AF, or the senior secretary recognizes the attack as terrorist driven. I think it is pretty clear, that situation occurred.