Should teens who have been arrested be allowed into the service?

2016-02-23T09:21:52-05:00

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 9:35 AM

2016-02-23T09:35:11-05:00

Private RallyPoint Member I think they should, some of the brightest minds are working on the wrong side, we should allow them to do something positive with their lives.

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Feb 23 at 2016 10:04 AM

2016-02-23T10:04:29-05:00

It took alot of help to get me in the army. And when it finally happened it changed my life. I became
a good person and learned things that made me responsible adult. I know it will not work for all but it worked for me. All i cah say is thanks to the man that took a stand for me and got me in..

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 10:24 AM

2016-02-23T10:24:42-05:00

Yes - it obviously depends on the crime. If it's a felony - was it a violent crime or habitual? There's a lot of factors on who gets in and who doesn't. Just because someone has been arrested, doesn't make them a bad person or not suitable for military service.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 10:56 AM

2016-02-23T10:56:43-05:00

Arrested for what? That's pretty open ended. Misdemeanors and even some very minor felonies, yes. The upper half of FBI Part I Crimes, nope, ain't gonna happen!!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 11:08 AM

2016-02-23T11:08:09-05:00

All depends on the crime they are arrested for. Heavy duty felony stuff, not a chance. Minor stuff like graffiti, sure.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Feb 23 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-02-23T11:13:55-05:00

Arrest is not the primary issue Private RallyPoint Member Conviction is the issue. In general conviction for misdemeanor offense should not be grounds for denying an application unless there are compelling circumstances. However felony convictions should generally exclude somebody from military service.
The primary issue for security clearance is truthfulness not necessarily behavior.
That being said when i enlisted in November 1974 we had a few trainees who had been given the choice of jail or military service. If that program still exists I think the judge who hears the case may be in the best position to determine whether or not the convicted person could serve as military servicemember.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 11:59 AM

2016-02-23T11:59:14-05:00

Arrested or convicted?
If convicted, for what?
If arrested, on what charges.
Details matter. Which is why such cases are scrutinized and at times need a waiver from the Recruiting Command CO.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 23 at 2016 12:01 PM

2016-02-23T12:01:42-05:00

Depends on what they were arrested for....

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 1:22 PM

2016-02-23T13:22:55-05:00

I'm with SSG Palmer on this one; it depends on why. For some, the military can change someone's life and give them a purpose. Not to play the "misguided soul" card too much, but it really can make all the difference to someone who has little or no experience or respect to authority. The decision to possibly die for your country should far outweigh having a beer when you were 17.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Feb 23 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-02-23T15:09:34-05:00

It depends on the offense. I was a Recruiting Sq Commander for two years and I saw the full run. Let me give you an example. I had a kid that took two of those wooden white deer people put in their yards at Christmas and put them in a provocative position. The owner of the house had them arrested and charged and they were convicted with misdeameanor charges but it followed them around. They came in. I then had a DUI charge and when I questioned him about what did he learn, he stated not to get caught...he did not come in.

Not every situation is the same. Sometimes you have to dig deeper than the surface to get to the actual meat and intent of what happened with the charges.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 4:58 PM

2016-02-23T16:58:05-05:00

i think it depends on what the offense was and what was done to correct the behavior.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 9:02 PM

2016-02-23T21:02:24-05:00

Private RallyPoint Member The key isn't if they were "arrested" or not the key is if they were convicted or not. What were they convicted of?

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Feb 23 at 2016 10:26 PM

2016-02-23T22:26:42-05:00

As a teen, here's my scorecard on four different occasions:
Arrests: 2
Free ride home from the Mesa County Sheriff's Deputy: 1
Free ride to the pokey: 1
Convictions: 0
The Marine Corps seemed like a good fit.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 8:42 AM

2016-02-24T08:42:43-05:00

There are a lot of cases in which an arrest will disqualify a person for eligibility. As having been a recruiter, I meet a ton of good people who are trying to change their life and a dumb mistake when they are younger are still effecting them. I've seen the regulations change also. We are in a growing, evolving military. I agree with the current regulations, they are fair and don't discriminate.

Response by SrA Lacy Yates Hull made Feb 24 at 2016 9:55 AM

2016-02-24T09:55:39-05:00

Yes, depends on what they did too. But the military can really change people's lives if they never had structure before.

Response by Nancy Cross made Feb 24 at 2016 10:16 PM

2016-02-24T22:16:47-05:00

I think it depends on what the charge is

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 14 at 2016 12:34 PM

2016-04-14T12:34:18-04:00

It really depends on what the crime is for. Many join the military because they want to turn their life around. In some ways, I'd say give em another chance at life. They were young and dumb.

Response by SFC John James made Apr 19 at 2016 6:23 PM

2016-04-19T18:23:12-04:00

Yes

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 6:27 PM

2016-04-19T18:27:36-04:00

Petty crime maybe... but this not the 1960's. We can't really afford to spend millions of dollars training people who are very likely to be kicked out within a year.

Response by SPC Matt Johnson made Apr 19 at 2016 7:15 PM

2016-04-19T19:15:17-04:00

sadly drug addicts seem to break into there old ways in the army. Some are good people but with the stresses of army life and availability of cocaine and meth around post. They really don't stand a chance. we had a guy that was clean for 5 years and when we got back from our first deployment he fell into it again. the whole platoon was pretty upset because we somehow missed the warning signs. He ended up doing coke the morning of the piss test and again the day of his retest. He couldn't stop himself and we tried watching him even had 2 guys living with him to keep an eye on him.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 9:19 PM

2016-04-19T21:19:26-04:00

There is a sentiment that some of the current leadership problems go back to moral waivers that were granted during "the surge" in 2006-2007, when there was such a push for soldiers. The thought is that some of these characters are now in leadership positions.

Personally, I question the validity of this argument. While there are some exceptions, I think that the system weeded out most of the problem "children" shortly after their tours were completed.

Back to this question though, I restate that these waivers need to consider the extent of the crime and the rehabilitation done.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Apr 19 at 2016 10:02 PM

2016-04-19T22:02:23-04:00

Depends on what for and whether or not it went on for a full conviction. Misdemeanor? We were all teenagers that did stupid stuff, only difference is they got caught. Felony? No thanks.

Response by SSG James Bigbie made Apr 19 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-04-19T22:24:31-04:00

This used to be a common method of getting people to enlist. My brother was given this option in 1957 and joined the Navy. Probably a quarter of my first unit in West Germany was given this option. If they qualify otherwise and the offense is relatively minor, OK. If not, then they can't get in.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2016 11:21 PM

2016-04-19T23:21:17-04:00

We kick so many folks out NOW because they are unsuitable and can't conform or handle authority figures giving them orders, what happens when someone has ALREADY demonstrated that they are unsuitable and can't conform or handle people telling them what to do?

Bad idea from the very start.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2016 4:00 AM

2016-04-20T04:00:28-04:00

I would say it depends on the nature of the crime. I knew one guy who joined during the rev up of OIF and OEF who had manslaughter on his conviction list. No other convictions. Was just young and dumb, got drunk as teenager and killed someone in car accident. He served very well in the Army and so far as I know, he had been model soldier with no infractions. So I believe people can change if given the chance.

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Apr 20 at 2016 7:29 AM

2016-04-20T07:29:30-04:00

I don't think anyone with a criminal record should be allowed to served, you see military service is becoming a launch pad to forge the leaders of tomorrow either at the federal level or coorporate, Soldiers, air personnel, Marines and Sailors and received secret clearance once the join, so a person with a criminal background will not fit in

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Apr 20 at 2016 11:00 AM

2016-04-20T11:00:54-04:00

From FM-1
The Army's nonnegotiable contract with the American people is to fight and win our Nation's wars. Our unique contribution to national security is prompt, sustained land dominance across the range of military operations and spectrum of conflict. The Army provides the land force dominance essential to shaping the international security environment.

Not sure that being there to turn teens around is a purpose of the US Army

Response by Sgt Lincoln Harris made Apr 20 at 2016 12:20 PM

2016-04-20T12:20:11-04:00

Agree with the majority here, the details matter. That being said, some folks when given a second chance turn out exceptionally. Others, continue to be shit birds and weigh a unit down, taking time and energy for the unit to purge. [Specifically discharging, I had very few CO's who ever wanted to pass a problem child along to someone else - lucky I think]

Response by PO1 Paul Galea made Apr 20 at 2016 6:49 PM

2016-04-20T18:49:42-04:00

Some just need structure and some semblance of order in their lives. The military provides that and then some. If done on a case by case basis based on history then why not. A young person faced with chaos, and little if no opportunity in their day to day life can definitely turn their life around.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 1:58 PM

2016-04-21T13:58:51-04:00

There are people currently in the military that probably should have been arrested and haven't been. Just saying.

Lets say two individuals had been to arrested for say stealing liquor from a convenient store. After being caught and questioned, one of them admits to it and the other one continues to lie about it.. They both go to jail. Some time after they get out they decide to join the military. Let the one in who fessed up. The one with questionable integrity can take a walk. This is assuming the kid has a history of lying. Liars are the worst people we have in the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 1:59 PM

2016-04-21T13:59:54-04:00

Of course. Nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. That is why the services have moral waivers for those who may have gotten into some kind of trouble before joining.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Apr 21 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-04-21T14:53:16-04:00

Should they? Depends. Can they? Depends. The system the Army uses per AR 601-210 answers each of those questions based on the individuals history. Every applicant is required to reveal their entire criminal history. True- it is convictions and type of charges that count toward the threshold of qualified, disqualified/waiver considered, or disqualified/waiver not considered. What many people don't realize, an "other adverse disposition" other than a conviction counts toward that threshold the same as a conviction. Eg; expunged, dismissed, or dropped charges if a certain condition is met such as community service, diversion programs, no offenses in a time period, classes, etc. Those that have a criminal history that falls into the waiver considered threshold will be evaluated using the whole person concept. To make a long story short, many factors are considered to determine if the person is a risk or if merits an exception. The waiver process attempts to distinguish between youthful mistakes and a pattern of behavior and character not compatible with military service.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Apr 22 at 2016 4:41 AM

2016-04-22T04:41:49-04:00

It depends on the crime. If it was a violent crime such as assault/sexual assault or anything of that nature then definitely no. Trafficking drugs, no.

If they got busted at a party for under age drinking and the cop decided to go all out and arrest them, then who cares. Petty crimes are irrelevant as long as they've learned their lesson.