Should someone who is RCP get an award?

2021-08-11T07:14:44-04:00

I have a soldier who got ART15 and got reduced E-3. This soldier is not currently flaged. This soldier is being forced our due to RCP. Should this stil get an award?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 8:36 AM

2021-08-11T08:36:42-04:00

Not flagged, so why not?

Did the Soldier not do.something worthy of recognition? That should be the only criterion.

I regularly award certificates to Soldiers who did something worth recognition if they are flagged, and hold the award recommendation against the day the flag is lifted.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 8:39 AM

2021-08-11T08:39:58-04:00

To reach a RCP that Soldier has been in for a few years at least. There has to be something you can put on paper, even if it's only an AAM.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 11 at 2021 8:46 AM

2021-08-11T08:46:42-04:00

Context is going to matter here. Did they get demoted for something stupid, or something terrible? If they violated curfew because they were rescuing a burning bus full of nuns? Sure, write up that award.
If they got caught selling cocaine at the local preschool? Not so much...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 9:55 AM

2021-08-11T09:55:46-04:00

COA to AAM as long as the rest of their time at the unit was great. But, it's up to the Leadership.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 12:11 PM

2021-08-11T12:11:06-04:00

So you're talking about a separation award because of RCP?

Working JAG I can tell you Soldiers receive article 15's for some of the stupidest things imaginable that has made me question the competence of NCO's and Officers and why they couldn't handle it any other way (which is encouraged) than with an NJP. Then you see how crayon drawn the counselings are and there's your answer.

Soldiers get in trouble, it happens, many learn from it and move on. With no flag, they are once again eligible for awards. So what we're missing here is context. Besides one article 15 which I presume is company grade, why would the Soldier not be deserving of a separation award for the entirety of their career? Have they been a do nothing the whole time? If they were a do nothing, why? Have they been in trouble their entire career?

There's a lot of factors into awards when things like separation, PCS, end of tour, and impact are involved. So without knowing what else this Soldier has done besides get an NJP and I'm certain many of us know senior leaders with NJP's and LOR's, I would say write it up for the guy so he has something for his shadow box for his grand kids and a nice piece of paper for his wall.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2021 1:22 PM

2021-08-11T13:22:05-04:00

The Soldier is ETSing, not being separated. They're receiving an Honorable discharge, they served honorably. Yeah, they probably did something stupid, but they still volunteered, and served for at least five years, making them a tiny percentage of the population. If what the Soldier did was so bad, your Command had the opportunity to separate them and even take their benefits.

RCP isn't a bad thing, it's more of the Army's way of saying, "It's not you, it's me" and "We just have different life goals". In fact, the Soldier is still eligible to join the National Guard or the Reserves. He won't get a sign on bonus since he was reduced, but he can still serve, get promoted, and retire.

The Soldier has at least five years of service, since the RCP for PFC is five years. Five years of service has to be worth at least an AAM.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Aug 11 at 2021 1:50 PM

2021-08-11T13:50:36-04:00

I think you are going to have a hard time getting it approved. When the award for a PFC that has 5 years of service it is going to garner attention. Someone will pull out 600-8-22 and read paragraph 1-17a. While it is not strictly prohibited most approval authorities are going to apply the “duty required by law” and say the underlying event for the Article 15 was not honorable. Note. This is a different standard that getting an Article 15 has on whether you receive an Hororable Discharge which is not precluded by the Article 15.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Aug 11 at 2021 2:55 PM

2021-08-11T14:55:14-04:00

Which award? For doing what??

If we're talking about an 'End of Tour' award where the main accomplishment is "He was here" then most probably no.

If we're talking about an award for some specific act or accomplishment, especially if others got an award for the same act or accomplishment, then almost certainly yes.

If we're talking about an 'End of Service' award, then there's a lot more to consider. How long was his service? Was he a good soldier who made one stupid mistake or was he a screw-up who finally went too far? What were the circumstances of his Art 15 - was it a serious offense or something that the command just decided to lower the boom and he was the one who happened to be caught at just the wrong time?

As a practical matter, it's not really your choice. You're not the approving authority. If you recommend him for an award that the chain of command doesn't support, they will downgrade or disapprove it. If you don't recommend him for an award that the chain of command really thinks he deserves, someone will 'remind' you that you 'forgot' to submit the recommendation. I am NOT saying that you shouldn't make your own decision, but you should be able to articulate how you reached that decision and why a particular award is or isn't appropriate.

Response by SFC Eddy Meador made Aug 11 at 2021 4:37 PM

2021-08-11T16:37:15-04:00

No. What did they do that deserves an award?

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Aug 11 at 2021 5:46 PM

2021-08-11T17:46:58-04:00

...for what? If the soldier did something worthy of being awarded give him/her an award. However, if it is simply because they are ETS'ing or being booted out hell no dont give an award. Could not agree with SFC Michael Hasbun any more he's on it.