Should soldiers with temperary profiles, be added to the "Remedial PT" program?

2014-06-24T21:53:25-04:00

How do we ensure PT/HT and WT failures who seek profiles post PT failure, are not abusing the system?

Response by MSG Martin C. made Jun 24 at 2014 10:13 PM

2014-06-24T22:13:20-04:00

The new FM 7-22 actually covers alternate exersises for different injuries the problem I seen outside of TRADOC is that most clinics do not know about it. In FT Jackson we had a local profile sheet with actual exersise routines authorized for certain injuries and we had a designated PT instructor for the profiles . So to respond to your question yes they should participate on recovery PT as long as the instructors knows the program and the medical personnel dictates the exersises.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 11:41 PM

2014-06-24T23:41:58-04:00

1SG, I agree with SFC Crouch. In addition, someone having a temporary profile does not mean it is physical fitness related. Two personal examples come to mind: the PRK surgery I had done in 2011 and the CPAP machine I'm about to receive. For the former, a person receives a temporary profile from conducting physical fitness since the eyes need time to heal prior to conducting any strenuous activity. For the CPAP, a person gets a temporary profile in order to inform C2 the Soldier is required to get 8 hours of sleep. A caveat with the last sentence. That doesn't mean a Soldier is EXEMPT from Staff Duty or CQ, it just means the person needs time.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made Jun 25 at 2014 2:17 AM

2014-06-25T02:17:18-04:00

1SG, this is a perception question as much as it's a very valid question. Soldier fails the run event and then goes to sick call the next day and gets a 90 day profile for a knee issue. Then spends the next year bouncing between healthcare providers and physical therapy getting misdiagnosed a couple times as to what his problem is. The perception could be from one view that this Soldier is malingering but reality is the system has failed him and is making him look like a dirt bag.

So how do we ensure that they are not abusing the system. First we don't assume that they are. I've seen a number of outstanding NCOs forced out of the military because the stigma of what going to sick call and getting a profile is like. They continued to push themselves even after they were injured and permanently damaged themselves to the point that they could not continue to serve. That being said we also don't trust blindly in the system. Engage that Soldier, talk to them about the PA visits, ask them what they said (don't cross the HIPA line). Don't let the system jack over the Soldiers. PA sends a Soldier back to the unit with a sick call slip (not a profile form) that says no PT X 90 days, send the Soldier back to the hospital/clinic to get that fixed. The days of sick call slip profiles when away a long time ago. Engaged the Doctor or PA about the situation if you have questions. The person that did the diagnosis and profile recommendation should have put their name and phone number on the profile. You can't discuss things covered by HIPA but clarification questions are fine.

At the end the only way the Soldier is going to abuse the system is if you don't have a Leader engaging him through out the entire process.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2014 2:16 PM

2014-06-25T14:16:03-04:00

Well battle, we have to make sure that the Soldiers section leader/squad leader are doing their jobs!!! And making sure these Soldiers(not All Soldiers) are not abusing the system. i will agree with everyone on this subject.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2014 6:05 PM

2014-06-25T18:05:50-04:00

I like that Remedial PT but who runs it battle? I would think the MFNCO?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 2 at 2014 11:54 AM

2014-07-02T11:54:29-04:00

I take a different approach to the whole thing. In 2006 I was suffered a knee injury and was placed on a temporary profile after I missed the time for my 2 mile by just a few seconds. The doctors gave me the profile and I talked to my squad leader and asked to be put on remedial PT because I wanted the extra workout time to heal my knee injury. I didn't see it as "punishment" for missing my time and it assisted in my overall recovery.

Now as far as those that seek out a profile, yes a closer eye must be kept on them. If a Service Member is continuously bouncing between doctors and profiles, the leadership needs to take interest and talk to the medical staff. Don't just assume the Soldier is trying to get by on the system. Sometimes the doctors get it wrong or the injury is worse than first thought. If it is discovered that the Service Member is abusing the system, then you take corrective action.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2014 12:34 PM

2014-07-02T12:34:27-04:00

There is more than one issue here that should be directly addressed:

Remedial PT should only be for those that have failed their PT test. If it gets to that point, the Senior Non-Commissioned Officers (PSG, 1SG and no officers) should be evaluating the soldier's supervisor ability to lead, train, and supervise as to why the soldier was able to fail their PT test. I mean, as an NCO, you should not be waiting for an official PT Test to be testing your soldiers. That is a direct reflection on your leadership ability.

No, NCO shouldn't be giving practice PT tests, as that is a waste of time. Instead, NCOs should be giving impromptu assessments for each task of the PT test. For example, 30 minutes before lunch time on a random day..."SPC Numbnuts, I am going to assess you on your ability to meet or exceed the push up event of the PT test. I want to you to hydrate yourself and prepare for this task in 30 minutes. The uniform will be ACUs and boots. You have the option of removing your ACU Jacket during this task. Move out." Assessing all three tasks on the same day or the same week would not be recommended. You are only trying to assess.

Second, if you view a profile as a way for a soldier to be malingering, then you should reassess your ability to function in a leadership position. You are assuming, without cause, that you do not trust your soldiers and that is a dangerous line of thinking in the military. Unless you have absolute proof that the soldier is malingering, you should continue your day to day operations and challenges. You do not have to adjust to your soldier's profile, the soldier's profile will outline what they can or cannot do.

In addition, as long as the solider can perform their duties, then there shouldn't be a problem. The moment the soldier is unable to perform their duties is when the commander needs to be involved. The commander should question the abilities of the soldier....should converse with the Medical Personnel, and to assess whether the soldier should be re-classed or chaptered.

Response by SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau made Jul 2 at 2014 12:42 PM

2014-07-02T12:42:54-04:00

I am on a no run, jump, etc profile for an injury that has taken over two years to correctly diagnose. I have been on and off profile that whole time, taking pt tests and passing them but always being in constant pain. Over the last six months the profile has been active and I have not been able to run. On my own, I have not only maintained, but improved my fitness level, completely within the confines of my profiles. Remedial PT would honestly do nothing but hold me back. There are soldiers who will use a profile as a crutch, but to make everyone have to go on remedial PT seems like it could be counter productive.