Should SM be counseled for incorrect PT uniform? SM does not have jacket and pants for Monday due to circumstances.

2016-01-10T21:23:17-05:00

SM wife takes PTs for Drill weekend and leaves PTs at Facility. By the time they realize the Facility and Clothing Sales is closed until Tuesday. Uniform put out is full winters at indoor gym. No one in SM section has extra PTs for SM to borrow. Should SM be counseled?

Clarification. SM is Active Duty. SM wife is NG.
Clothing and Sales is closed Monday. NG Facility is closed Monday.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Jan 10 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-01-10T21:35:29-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member it all depends on the situation, a verbal warning, then counseling (-18) magic statement is warranted. After all it is the military and must conform within regulation. The standard must be upheld with in AR- 670-1 standards.

Response by CSM Chris McKeown made Jan 10 at 2016 9:46 PM

2016-01-10T21:46:39-05:00

The SM should have known better and packed his own gear, but accidents do happen. So if this is a one time occurrence then I would say NO!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 9:47 PM

2016-01-10T21:47:01-05:00

Never bring just one set of PTs ! Always bring winters and Summer's so you'll be squared away! But I know for most units they do require you to bring both so you can't say you don't have it! That's when you get with your supply SGT and get it ordered! Also, if you have the money to go buy it then but it! But counseling of that may be necessary depending on circumstances!

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jan 10 at 2016 9:49 PM

2016-01-10T21:49:52-05:00

I realize this is really NCO matters, but a written counseling for something like this sounds excessive. The SM was not negligent by forgetting his PTs in some alley and just showed up unprepared. SM is making every effort to notify the chain of command and remedy the situation in advance. If this is the first time it's happened, a verbal counseling seems more appropriate... but I would support an NCO if he chose to counsel as well, as long as he maintained that standard for everyone (including most importantly himself).

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 10 at 2016 9:56 PM

2016-01-10T21:56:40-05:00

If it's a first time occurrence and the service member is normally squared away (doesn't have negative counseling for other infractions) I personally would issue a verbal counseling (in fact I have done just that for exactly the same infraction).

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jan 10 at 2016 10:27 PM

2016-01-10T22:27:41-05:00

Is this a "one time" event or frequent occurrence? If it's a once-in-a-blue-moon-doesn't-happen-often event, then I say pull the SM aside and stress the importance of both members having proper uniform items. If the infraction occurs on a regular basis, more aggressive measures may be needed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 10:40 PM

2016-01-10T22:40:07-05:00

If SM is someone who does this on a regular basis, then yes. One time deal, no. However, I might counsel Soldier to have extra shorts and shirt. At least you could have tried to meet the intent in an indoor gym. You would have frozen your butt off from the car to the gym, but you would have been able to at least showed you tried. I have been medievel on Soldiers, but only for lack of trying and repetitive offenses.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 10:52 PM

2016-01-10T22:52:51-05:00

This isn't a written counseling situation. Have him wear what he has, impress upon him the importance of having the correct uniform and carry on. If it becomes a continuing problem then put it on paper.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 11:00 PM

2016-01-10T23:00:56-05:00

Yes, they should be counseled. They are not in the correct uniform, and the excuse given is the equivalent of the "dog ate my homework".
Bull$#!t.
As if the Missus was not issued an APFU.
I smell B.S.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 11:46 PM

2016-01-10T23:46:11-05:00

Just to be clear. The SM's wife (status is irrelevant) was issued her own IPFUs but left them in her unit's facility. She then borrow's her husband's IPFU but then leaves THAT set at the facility too. Sorry but I would put it on paper although I would NOT consider it to be a heavy infraction. Yes, mistakes do happen but the SM knew his wife had already left hers in the facility once.

I do agree the SM and wife should purchase additional sets of IPFUs as backups. My personal standard was to have at least 5 sets of shorts/SS shirts/LS shirts and two sets of winter IPFUs. This includes at least two PT caps (I had three) and at least two PT belts. Understandable that junior enlisted make less money so an extra set should be purchased each month until the desired quantities are met. Just the 3.57 cents worth from an old NCO.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 10 at 2016 11:56 PM

2016-01-10T23:56:36-05:00

Yes... PPPPP

Response by LTC Donald Lee Hackle made Jan 11 at 2016 12:50 AM

2016-01-11T00:50:49-05:00

Yes.....a counseling never killed anyone and this is the E4's issue to solve (hint....additional set of PT gear).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 1:40 AM

2016-01-11T01:40:36-05:00

Depends on the SM. Is he consistently a top performer in which this is only one of few mistakes he has made? Or is he one that there always seems to be a reason he making mistakes? Leaders do not always have to do a written counseling. Sometimes a verbal counseling will suffice. I have noticed a trend where leaders are too eager to dole out written counselings for every little infraction. That is not how we mentor junior soldiers. Now if he is a Soldier who is consistently screwing up, then perhaps a written counseling is the way to go. My other question is why doesn't his wife not have a full set of IPFU/APFU? Even NG soldiers are initially issued them.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 11 at 2016 7:12 AM

2016-01-11T07:12:44-05:00

I am assuming you are the Soldier and you got the counseling. Bottom line is don't have a uniform issue in the future and this counseling only serves as a good reminder. In which case the purpose of the counseling was met.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 8:49 AM

2016-01-11T08:49:02-05:00

I think this is definitely a "non-formal" correction worthy incident. I recall that my Division Chief used to hold a uniform inspection one week prior to any scheduled event where there was even the slightest question if any of our Sailors didn't have a full sea-bag ready. Uniforms are expensive...young service members sometimes make strange choices. Perhaps a good (and fair) penalty would be to assign that member a duty or watch that am that requires another, higher uniform.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 11 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-01-11T11:13:08-05:00

What kind of soldier is he?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-01-11T11:41:07-05:00

I would do a verbal counseling. I say the wife owes the SM a big (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) favor, since it was her carelessness that got his nuts in a clamp.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-01-11T11:42:03-05:00

If this was a one time...never going to happen again....then I would treat it as a one and done, raise an eyebrow, giggle a little, and move on with the mission.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jan 11 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-01-11T12:28:04-05:00

Hmmm... This is sounds like "one of those things." You want to burn a youngster for messing up? No. You try to help 'em out --and remember that "these things" happen. I would only recommend counseling if you note a trend.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 11 at 2016 12:32 PM

2016-01-11T12:32:58-05:00

And the answer issssss>>>>>drum roll please...YES!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 1:18 PM

2016-01-11T13:18:41-05:00

I'm curious why they don't each have their own PT uniforms.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 11 at 2016 2:05 PM

2016-01-11T14:05:17-05:00

Pull them off to the side later and let them know it isn't acceptable and make it very clear that it will not happen again. You are always supposed to have full sets of all the uniforms for any time they are called upon to be worn. Written counseling absolutely not since this was a one time event. However, remember, one is an anomaly, two is a trend. If it happens again...drop the hammer.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Jan 11 at 2016 3:10 PM

2016-01-11T15:10:56-05:00

its not worth ink and paper to counsel over something that trivial -
it is easier to adjust fire when every one shows up for P.T. to say lose the pants and the jacket then there is no issue -
there is no reason not to be reasonable when you can be flexible and fluid to almost any situation to remain ridged and inflexible can show your troops that there is no adjust fire and thinking outside the box - lead from the front not the rear be fluid be flexible and adjust fire and you'll set a good example and develop good troops who no when to be reasonable and think outside the box.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 2:45 AM

2016-01-12T02:45:42-05:00

Definitely. The SM should be counseled. There's no reason for his spouse not to have her own set of uniforms, and as a Soldier he should know that he needs to be prepared to fulfill his duties. Right place, Right time, Right uniform is the easiest thing in the Military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 6:25 AM

2016-01-12T06:25:50-05:00

nothing that a few burpees could not correct, guaranteed

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Jan 12 at 2016 9:27 AM

2016-01-12T09:27:10-05:00

sometimes stuff just happens. No need to flog him for it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2016 8:16 AM

2016-01-13T08:16:10-05:00

Just take the counseling and don't make the same mistake twice. Too easy.

Response by SFC Karen Lassiter made Jan 16 at 2016 7:24 AM

2016-01-16T07:24:26-05:00

Yes they should be counseled whether written or verbal. It doesn't matter if it was the first time or not because the leader must coach and mentor Soldiers and counseling is a way to do it. Now keeping in mind there are several versions to a story,what seems a bit harsh to some may very well be a needed course of action. Plus, whenever I was trying to reduce a Soldier or put them out Senior leadership (CSM) always ask where are the counseling services.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2016 7:46 AM

2016-01-16T07:46:11-05:00

If it's a first offense just give the SM a verbal. Counsel him if it continues happening.
Why was the NG facility closed on Monday? Don't they have a full time AGR staff?