Should Shinseki Quit?

2014-05-06T15:49:23-04:00

For those not staying up on current events, the American Legion has called for Sec Shinseki to resign from his position as the head of the VA.

The VA released a statement rejecting the AL's call for his job and the President released his own statement saying he still backs Shinseki.

All this started over the 40 Veterans that died in Arizona. These deaths may be releated to the delays in care and a "secret list" of Veterans to wait for treatment.

With all the negative news flying around, is it time for a change at the top or are all these matters something that that the regional directors need to take responsibility over?

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made May 6 at 2014 3:50 PM

2014-05-06T15:50:23-04:00

Should have resigned the day the story broke

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made May 6 at 2014 3:52 PM

2014-05-06T15:52:08-04:00

Also the regional directors and the Hospital directors where the deaths happened

Response by MAJ Daniel Simons made May 6 at 2014 4:02 PM

2014-05-06T16:02:47-04:00

Yes, he should certainly resign with all of the garbage the VA is doing. Will he? Absolutely not. Nobody at that level anymore accepts failures of their organizations as their failure as a leader or even that their organization is failing.

Response by SSG Nathan Bryant made May 6 at 2014 4:43 PM

2014-05-06T16:43:28-04:00

I have seen this in the news (both the call for resignation and the initial incident regarding the deaths). I feel 100% that there are personnel within the region and at the specific location in Phoenix that should be vacating their positions. But, I am unsure of the awareness level at the "top". Regardless, this is stupid. Who can be trusted? There are LIVES that were lost, families now suffering, and imagine the concern of other veteran's who use that facility. I can only hope that issues such as this one will not become 'the norm' in the United States of America. We have to do better.

Response by COL William Johnson made May 6 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-05-06T17:02:31-04:00

I'm not sure all the information is out for an informed decision on who should resign and at what level. One thing that probably should keep in mind was he was the Army Chief of Staff, lost part of a foot in Vietnam, has a reputation above reproach, and has done more for the VA and Veterans than any previous secretary. The issues with the VA are ones he inherited and at the five year mark he is finally getting things on track. Perhaps looking at his entire service is a better judge of his character and performance.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 6 at 2014 6:33 PM

2014-05-06T18:33:33-04:00

Interesting, Listened to the debate on NPR on the way into work. Sounds like the Legion is calling for his head but the VFW wants a shakeup and some answers but is supporting him. I belong to both organizations. Normally being a Sailor, I believe in the Navy Way, Top Dog takes the dive but seeing how Political Appointments have become so Politicized as of Late and replacements are not being blessed by the Senate, we would Gap a Boss of that Organization and I don't think that would improve the situation.

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made May 6 at 2014 7:43 PM

2014-05-06T19:43:49-04:00

I have met Secretary Shinseki and had a high regard for him while he was Chief of Staff but I haven't been impressed with the performance of the VA on his watch. Perhaps the VA's problems are ones that he inherited; I'm not close enough to the flagpole to know for sure. I think he owes the Congress, Veterans, and their families some answers and his plan for dealing with these problems.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made May 6 at 2014 8:37 PM

2014-05-06T20:37:59-04:00

On his watch things have degenerated from poor to worse. He has not lead and improved the situation.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 6 at 2014 9:01 PM

2014-05-06T21:01:37-04:00

Secretary Shinseki has made extraordinary strides shaping what was an incredibly dysfunctional VA. He has challenged the status quo - but he still has to contend with those who are entrenched as civilian employees and who may not be doing the right thing. I watched the local television feed on the answers by the Miami director with respect to the death a year ago of a young vet in rehab - who died because of a drug overdose. He accepted zero responsibility for the lousy protocols and standards that directly led to this young man's premature death. I am reasonably certain that the Secretary was apoplectic when he was given this information.
The Secretary recently requested the ability to remove people without extended negotiations for cause. When those people fail the veterans, they fail at their job and would be summarily dismissed if they worked for me. But in the government they protest - and how many people that they wronged were hurt or died? Who gets held accountable then?

Keep Secretary Shinseki. American Legion - why do they want him gone? I don't think it is the 40 vets-I think there are a bunch of folks being held accountable by the Secretary under the proposed laws that are behind this. And the call for him to resign is an outrage. Just the way the former AL economic development director challenged me as to which unit was the toughest in Viet Nam, but had no answers regarding the real question I had for him - what was the economic development program that the AL had? The answer in a word was none. But that individual was positive that he was in the toughest unit. I wasted a thousand bucks on that trip.

Secretary Shinseki - keep up the good work!

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 6 at 2014 9:15 PM

2014-05-06T21:15:18-04:00

As of 2008 there were 278,000 VA employees when the Secretary first took over. He spent two years listening to problems, then began to make changes, and course corrections. How many people, especially mired in illegal policies and procedures, have had to be retrained and new systems implemented? How many could any one of us directly control or know?

I have listened to the Secretary many times - he is a visionary and has an incredible commitment to us veterans. And he inherited a god-awful mess. I am apolitical - but this administration increased VA funding by almost 50%, and the Secretary opened the doors to veterans needing treatment for GWI by going against the combined mis-advice of the VA and DoD medical research people, and promptly had 1,000,000 new applications. He accepted a huge responsibility when he took on the job, and he deserves a salute and a grateful thanks from us all despite the continuing shortfalls.

If you are going to make judgments, make sure you understand what you are judging.

Response by CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. made May 6 at 2014 9:53 PM

2014-05-06T21:53:52-04:00

Plus, he needs to take a large number of people with him. This is a major failure of a bureaucratic functionary to establish an ethical climate, to demand the truth regardless of the taste, and communicate his confidence in the agency's ability to solve problems.

Many people need to go.

Asleep at the wheel, again.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made May 7 at 2014 12:06 AM

2014-05-07T00:06:27-04:00

No he should not resign. He should be fired and fined. Way before the recent deaths.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made May 7 at 2014 12:14 AM

2014-05-07T00:14:28-04:00

Can someone name a single accomplishment to his credit since 2009?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 12:22 AM

2014-05-07T00:22:37-04:00

I have had my disagreements in the past with the way Shinseki ran things, but I also know the history about why he chose to do some things (such as the beret). I disagreed with it, and I still do, but the change was made. In case you haven't noticed, those of you who still are on active duty or who work closely with active duty, the beret appears to be falling to the wayside in favor of the patrol cap again... Just saying.

Anyway, to continue: I am starting the process of dealing with the VA as I progress towards retirement, and I realize that one man, although notionally in charge, is not going to change things overnight.

As I understand it, Shinseki has IMPROVED the VA tremendously, by getting rid of an 18+ month backlog of claims that were just sitting there never getting processed. He kicked ass, had the VA start cleaning things up, and made them start working overtime to process those records and claims.

I have friends who are in the VA, and they have been a part of this and have openly told me that they are seeing improvements in the VA. Currently (I'll admit that my newly assigned VA rep might be lying about this next part), it takes about 6-9 months to process and finalize the initial claims currently being filed.

Normally, you fire the people in charge, but you can only go so high. Normally, you only go one or MAYBE two levels up if the crime is bad enough

Think of it like this: If a Soldier is caught committing some crime the command should have been aware of, the people who get relieved are the immediate chain - that is, if it's a private, his squad leader in most cases. If it's a Platoon Sergeant, the CO and/or the 1SG - IF they SHOULD have or DID know! If they couldn't have possibly known, oftentimes, they may still pay be being relieved.

YOU DO NOT RELIEVE THE BC because the CO CDR got relieved.

To continue the above statement: If the CO CDR committed the crime, and the BC should have known he was committing a crime, you relieve the BC, EVEN if he didn't! You don't relieve the Brigade or Group (in my case) commander.

So, while it is EXTREMELY tragic that anyone died as a result of possible deliberate negligence or ineptitude or malicious intent, there is NO WAY Shinseki could have seen this coming - especially since he was probably being told by his immediate subordinate that everything was getting better, and his immediate subordinate's subordinate was singing the same tune, all the way down to the real problem.

Shinseki didn't do this, and could NOT have known this was going on. What does need to happen, and what is a travesty, is that the guy in CHARGE of the whole shebang can't EVEN FRIGGIN FIRE ANYONE! THAT, is what is ridiculous.

Shinseki should (BE ABLE TO) relieve the regional or district manager who oversees the staff at this hospital, who should have known and done something about this before it became a problem.

THAT'S the bottom line!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 7 at 2014 5:25 AM

2014-05-07T05:25:48-04:00

It's time to get General Mattis in the seat...

Response by SGT Ben Keen made May 7 at 2014 8:04 AM

2014-05-07T08:04:51-04:00

Over night, two senators, Republican John Cornyn of Texas and Republican Jerry Morgan of Kansas have joined in the call for Shinseki to step down or be removed.

There's no doubt that under his leader some things at the VA have improved. He took control of an organization that was already failing and while the system isn't 100% he has made some good moves.

To me, what we are seeing here is frustration boiling over. First the back log in claims, then followed by reports of deaths in several VA hospitals including an outbreak of Legionnaires' Disease here in Pittsburgh which in fact impacted more hospitals outside the VA during the same time frame including the famed UPMC Children's Hospital. Yet the people in these different regions with boots on the ground are still sitting in their chairs making bad decisions.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 7 at 2014 9:28 AM

2014-05-07T09:28:43-04:00

He's trying! ;)

VA Secretary Eric Shinseki Tries To Resign But White House Still Has Him On Hold

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The head of the Department of Veterans Affairs said Wednesdaythat he’s been trying to get “this damn resignation business” straightened out with the president all day, but he’s been sittingon hold with TheWhite House for hours, Duffel Blog has learned. “The American Legion wants me to resign, so fine,I’ll resign,” Shinsheki said, …

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made May 7 at 2014 10:10 AM

2014-05-07T10:10:58-04:00

Enough is Enough - Fire Eric Shinseki
SSG Robin Rushlo, Iowa City, IA

Atlanta. Pittsburgh. Phoenix. Fort Collins. It seems like every day, there is a new story in a new city about negligence, cover ups, and mismanagement at a local VA facility. It is not just one city or one hospital – there is an epidemic of misconduct and leadership failures at VA facilities at across the country.

Whether it is secret wait lists for veterans needing urgent care in Phoenix, the cover up of preventable deaths of VA patients in Pittsburgh, or instructing lower-level employees on how to falsify patient records in Fort Collins– it is clear that that many so-called leaders within the Department of Veterans Affairs are failing America’s veterans and engaging in gross misconduct or possibly even criminal behavior. Worse yet, it has now been confirmed that dozens of veterans have died as a result of delayed and improper care at the VA which is a direct byproduct of these leadership failures.

That is why it is time to say ENOUGH and demand that President Obama fire the head of the VA, Secretary Eric Shinseki.

CVA first called for Shinseki’s removal over a year ago. Now, in light of the myriad of new scandals involving the VA, the American Legion, the nation’s largest veteran group, is joining with us to call for Shinseki removal as head of the VA. CVA is proud to stand with The American Legion as they take this courageous and historic stand. As America’s largest veterans organization, their moral authority on this issue is unimpeachable. Secretary Shinseki has been given all the money and resources he asked for as head of the VA and then some – a fact even President Obama acknowledges. However, under his leadership, the VA has failed America’s veterans. As the head of the VA, the responsibility for these failures ultimately rests on Eric Shinseki’s shoulders.

This was written by my Friend

Dan Caldwell
Issue and Legislative Campaign Manager
Concerned Veterans for America

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 12:10 PM

2014-05-07T12:10:43-04:00

In uniform we are held accountable for the actions of those under our command. As leaders we are responsible for implementing policies and controls as well as monitoring that those policies are carried out. I also think that his resignation would have been called for under most if not all previous administrations.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 4:33 PM

2014-05-07T16:33:15-04:00

No he shouldn't resign unless he doesn't openly and aggressively address the problem. I have yet to see anything come down to see it yet. I hope so. And fortunately haven't had to use the VA system. But after what I have seen the last few years it scares me to death(no pun intended). Travesty that people would stoop so low to treat veterans regardless of their claims this way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 10:35 PM

2014-05-07T22:35:49-04:00

Most definitely he needs to resign but the directors need to be held accountable. If he doesn't then he should be criminally held liable.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 11:39 AM

2014-05-08T11:39:27-04:00

I think the best way to examine yoiur question is two ways...One media places "EX"-Generals on a pedestal because it is believed there is a level of superior professionalism over the civilian populus. And 2nd this story although gross and unexcuseable was just a tiny volcano ready to erupt into something massive. Who if anyone except the top tier personnel should be left to blame. When in charge be in charge...stop enjoying parachute vacations while Vets are medically deprived. I believe this is a social problem across the board and truly is an examplel of how polticians and civilians mix it up to cause chaos and unrest in the public's eye. Fire him elect a responsible individual who will place the needs of Warriors above their own. Remember Mr. Shinseki is the one who ordered, mass-produced, and gained approval of the All-Army Black Beret while beginning the infant stages of future Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts. Its been excuse after excuse why the VA system has backlogged claims, vets not being taken care of properly and whistleblowers saving their own butts by notifying media representatives. Honestly it makes me sick and ashamed that my future looks dismal and faithless upon retirement in the Armed forces from a medical standpoint. All contributors to blatent negligence should be fired from the TOP - DOWN. Overhaul VA benefits as if Obamacare depended on it.....Taxpayers pay for it so maybe as citizens we should have the SAY-SO in this matter....????

Response by LT Stephen Amiaga made May 8 at 2014 5:24 PM

2014-05-08T17:24:01-04:00

When you're in charge, and the failure is this great, he SHOULD resign or his resignation should be requested by the President. Apparently a General's retirement isn't enough to live on, so he will probably have to stay. The President doesn't seem willing to hold anyone accountable for these drastic failures.

BTW, the Regional Directors that perpetrated this fraud or allowed it to go ahead should ALSO be fired. Remember "Safety Stand-down" When something smells, raise your hand, address it, fix it and move on. What's going on in this government?

It's a big difference running an Army and running a Government Bureaucracy. In the Military, even a small failure will yield "Not recommended to promote" or a lower peer ranking, thus ending a young / mid-grade officer's career. Going into the federal system, it seems like it takes an act of Congress to get someone fired for failing.

Response by SPC Brian Jones made May 9 at 2014 7:23 AM

2014-05-09T07:23:06-04:00

The regional directors are to blame, but as our political leaders and media have taught us the guy at the top is responsible for the action(s) of their underlings. So, yes the BGiC should be held responsible and it wouldn't hut my feeling if the President himself was also held to task.

Many VETS have died due to these actions. Where are the murder charges? Oh wait these were just old vets long past their prime. To all you active duty folks out there, this is what you get to look forward to.

Response by SSG Carl Prescott made May 17 at 2014 7:18 AM

2014-05-17T07:18:28-04:00

As a former soldier, and combat veteran, I respect Secretary Shinseki’s service while in the U.S. Army. However he has not been effective in leading the VA, and he needs to go. Veterans are dying due to the ineptitude of the VA, yet the VA continues to award bonuses based on short wait times. Will anyone really be held accountable for this? I seriously doubt it.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made May 17 at 2014 11:16 AM

2014-05-17T11:16:33-04:00

It is easy to blame the guy on top as if the VA were a battalion where he had command over subordinate commanders, but in reality it is the middle layers of the bureaucracy that needs to be fixed.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 17 at 2014 11:41 PM

2014-05-17T23:41:16-04:00

Adequate? Could you clarify?