Should retirement medal(s) be given?

2016-01-07T01:31:56-05:00

A military member with 28 years of service will retire soon. After the member PCA'd/PCS'd into the unit, all of the members performance reports are "rock solid".
Should the member be entitled to a retirement medal I.e. MSM or higher.
Should the members entire record or the records from the previous unit be used?

Response by SrA David Steyer made Jan 7 at 2016 1:42 AM

2016-01-07T01:42:45-05:00

There's no such thing as a retirement medal. The only difference is the last sentence in the citation and the fact that someone may get a medal that is higher than what is considered appropriate for the rank, like a TSgt getting a MSM for example, and with that said I don't agree with the rank dictating decorations to clear any misconceptions because I know there are TSgt's out there that do MSM worthy things and don't get one.

Did they do any solid work while they were in the unit? Did they just PCA/PCS in and drop retirement work as soon as they arrived?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 2:29 AM

2016-01-07T02:29:41-05:00

In the Army, the Awards regulation has a specific paragraph about retirements. It states that the level of award should take into consideration the SM's rank, length of service, level of responsibility and manner of performance. Normally, a command can only approve an award for service done in that command in the latest assignment. But that is waived for retirements and the award can consider the entire career. And it is that consideration of the entire time of service that usually boosts the award to a higher level than would normally be received at the current job.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 3:26 AM

2016-01-07T03:26:37-05:00

Yes, the service member should be submitted for a retirement award commensurate with their service length and achievement. Not doing so is pretty unusual and has circumstances attached that would make it obvious why they shouldn't be recommended.
If there is concern about due diligence, a phone call to their previous unit should clear up any questions about character.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jan 7 at 2016 4:10 AM

2016-01-07T04:10:22-05:00

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member Hell yeah they should get a Retirement Award (if eligible). Army uses the last 10 years of your career for the time frame that you can use bullets for the award.

Response by MSgt Matthew Meindl made Jan 7 at 2016 6:23 AM

2016-01-07T06:23:52-05:00

They aren't "given", they have been "earned" based on whole career performance record. A retiree is no longer competing for promotion, so disregard the points value of the CM or MSM. The bigger question should be, did this person disgrace themselves (and the branch of service) over the length of their career enough that you feel the need to send that strong of a message at their retirement ceremony (no, you are not worthy of a retirement medal)?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 7 at 2016 6:37 AM

2016-01-07T06:37:35-05:00

I'll take it one further. I believe there should be an actual "retirement medal" that every retiree gets, regardless of rank. Awards like MSM's and LOM's have become traditionally associated with being "retirement awards", so most commands tend to never award them to deserving personnel, issuing ARCOM's instead since an MSM or LOM is likely what they're awarding to a retiree in the same unit...

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jan 7 at 2016 9:44 AM

2016-01-07T09:44:15-05:00

Reading the responses so far, I feel like a grinch because I have this philosophic problem with retirement medals. If a soldier (or airman or sailor)(or even a Marine) didn't do anything exceptional enough to earn a medal while they were serving, why hand them a self-esteem award because they're leaving? Goodbye gifts should come from people, not in the form of medals which are supposed to be earned for accomplishments.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jan 7 at 2016 11:51 AM

2016-01-07T11:51:01-05:00

Yes. First ask the question: What medal if any would he or she be given if it was a PCS and not a retirement? That's your baseline. Then look at the member's entire 28 year career as a whole. Add the two together and give the member what he or she has earned!

Response by SGT Larry Prentice made Jan 7 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-01-07T12:40:16-05:00

I have mixed feelings about this. I do not think that one should get a medal just because they served 20+. This is especially true for NG and Reserves. Having spent my entire 20 in the NG I have seen 20 year guys retire as a SPC. Heck I even saw a 24 year guy get boarded out as a PFC. So should this 24 years PFC get an MSM or LOM just because??? NO!!!! However, if a guy does serve honorably for his 20 then him give something as a thank you as he walks out the door.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 1:49 PM

2016-01-07T13:49:32-05:00

I absolutely believe they should unless they are being asked to retire due to some sort of disciplinary actions. Especially in our time...if you have put in 20 years then you have done the large majority of that time during conflict and you have earned recognition upon leaving. To not issue someone a decoration or to issue one that is not "commensurate" with the rank at retirement is a slap in the face. Establish a no kidding retirement decoration and take the guessing game out of it. I've seen MSgts stand in front of a squadron and receive achievement medals...and while I thought to myself that it probably would have been accurate for a PCS medal, it was a foul for retirement.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jan 7 at 2016 1:57 PM

2016-01-07T13:57:31-05:00

After 20 + years of honorable service I would think that everyone deserves an MSM. Meritorious Service says it all.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 2:08 PM

2016-01-07T14:08:45-05:00

In my opinion thE medal given at retirement should be based off of the members entire career. Some people just ride it out for 20 and punch out. Should they get the same medal as someone of equal rank that worked their ass off and has the performance reports to prove it?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-01-07T17:58:22-05:00

It seems traditional to do it. Kinda like a "lifetime achievement award" The only thing that's unfair about it is that higher ranks get higher awards. I don't believe there should be any rank criteria on the awards; Obviously higher ranks get higher scope of responsibility. It should look into account of performance over your career in comparison to others of your rank and position.

Response by TSgt Pennie Snyder made Jan 7 at 2016 6:45 PM

2016-01-07T18:45:40-05:00

I received an Meritorious Service Medal upon retirement based on my whole career. Personally couldn't have cared less one way or the other. I needed those points for promotion but previously had only been awarded commendation medals despite solid top notch performance reports, numerous awards, etc. I'm one that never could test well had lots of anxiety about testing even when I knew the material. Even obtained my Bachelors degree in my field. Felt blessed to make E-6 to have the retirement opportunity but was sad that I never made E-7 or higher and by the time I retired I was a little irritated with the whole promotion system so by that point the MSM didn't really matter at all to me.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made Jan 7 at 2016 8:06 PM

2016-01-07T20:06:01-05:00

Yes out of respect.

Response by MSgt Aaron Brite made Jan 7 at 2016 10:20 PM

2016-01-07T22:20:53-05:00

Some intetesting responses here that make me wonder/worry about my retirement from the ANG. I did not have a ceremony due to my civilian job moving me cross country. No awards after 20 years and the last three setting up a new ANG LRS QA program. Does that sound normal?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 12:57 AM

2016-01-08T00:57:00-05:00

It should be earned like any other medal for PCS cover the same amount of time and everything. If they warranted it over a 3,4, 5 year period with the unit or since last medal give it to them. Shouldn't be based on an entire career though.

Response by SSG Delanda Hunt made Jan 8 at 2016 6:10 PM

2016-01-08T18:10:06-05:00

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-01-08T21:33:03-05:00

He is definitely entitled to an award, if eligible. The Army uses the last 10 years for the write up. It should probably be the equivalent of our MSM or LOM.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:47 PM

2016-01-08T21:47:55-05:00

There are already multiple ribbons or medals in each service which can be and often are appropriately given to retirees.

Response by SMSgt David Zobel made Jan 10 at 2016 3:43 PM

2016-01-10T15:43:41-05:00

First and foremost, the MSM is not a "retirement" medal. It is often awarded at retirement, but for the same reason it is often awarded related to a PCS move - for the meritorious service rendered at that command. The question is moot.

Response by MSgt Joseph Haynes made Jan 12 at 2016 8:05 AM

2016-01-12T08:05:10-05:00

Yes they should. All medals are listed on your DD 214, which can affect mcertain VA benefits. If that member maintained a high work ethic and performed at a level worthy of a medal, then yes, those achievements should be awarded with the appropriate medal. Not all retirees deserve a medal, this is true. However, me being awarded my MSM did not affect anyone else's promotíon chances. Actually, I turned down my last WAPS test date because I had retirement orders in hand. If I had made the cut off only to retire, then that would have affected another SrNCO and prevented one from promoting. I think that if you have retirement orders you should not WAPS test.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-01-18T10:27:48-05:00

As the Commander's primary adviser on enlisted decorations for the past eight years, I can tell you this is often a very contentious issue because folks look at the decoration presented during a retirement ceremony as a "retirement decoration." In truth, the decoration covers the period of service immediately prior to retirement and can only include significant accomplishments from that service.
That said, if a person's service was not fully to the level expected during that time frame we did consider the entire career to justify a borderline case, but there were numerous times when the service was not even close that my recommendation was not to award a decoration, or to step down to lesser award.
Whenever the decision was made not to award and an argument arose, it was generally when the individual was being submitted for their first, and what would be their only Meritorious Service Medal. Most often the argument ended when I asked the individual that was pushing for the decoration if the person they were submitting was their equal, because the award their subordinate will be receiving if approved is the same as they would be presented at their retirement.
The bottom line is that a decoration presented at retirement is not a participation trophy and should be earned and accurately reflect the service.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 9:55 AM

2016-01-22T09:55:29-05:00

Not "entitled". If the member's service was honorable, then the command should recognize it at retirement. But, decorations should never be considered a must nor and entitlement, even at retirement.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2016 9:14 PM

2016-02-12T21:14:48-05:00

Yes and yes! The medal is earned and the ceremony is for the family anyway. Most of the family don't know everything the individual did while in so it give them the brevity of what they did over the years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2016 6:19 AM

2016-03-28T06:19:03-04:00

Yes, of course. Such a small percentage of military are able to complete 20 years and it's a great achievement