Posted on Aug 10, 2014
Should MPs have jurisdiction of Military Personnel off post?
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Should an MP be able to come to my house off post and arrest me? Would this be good or bad for the military? What are your thoughts.
Side note: Anyone have bail money? I'll pay you back.
Side note: Anyone have bail money? I'll pay you back.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 75
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MP's (SPC and Below) while on duty have the authority to enforce the UCMJ anywhere (and associated regulations, customs, courtesies) on any US Service Member bound by the UCMJ.
All Officers and NCOs (regardless of Branch) have the authority (and are Duty duty bound) to enforce the UCMJ (and associated regulations, customs, courtesies) anywhere in the world on any US Service Member bound by the UCMJ.
Any US Service Member bound by the UCMJ is required to obey the orders of any On Duty MP, Officer, or NCO that is conducting their duties in a lawful manner. If they do not, they will be subject to numerous other UCMJ offenses...Article 92 and Article 134 (the catch all) at least.
Posse Comitatus only applies to using the Military to Police the civilian population off US Installations. Not the Military Policing its own personnel. We are not limited by civilian jurisdictions....if an installation chooses to limit their MPs authority, then it is on them.
Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2013, now authorizes all properly Credentialed and Qualified MPs (all branches version of such to include retirees) to carry a concealed weapon (off duty) anywhere in the US (to include territories) just like any other City, County, or Federal Police Officer. The US Army's implementing instructions on LEOSA are scheduled to be published this SEP-DEC time frame (refer to the Officer of the Provost Marshal General website for more info).
All Officers and NCOs (regardless of Branch) have the authority (and are Duty duty bound) to enforce the UCMJ (and associated regulations, customs, courtesies) anywhere in the world on any US Service Member bound by the UCMJ.
Any US Service Member bound by the UCMJ is required to obey the orders of any On Duty MP, Officer, or NCO that is conducting their duties in a lawful manner. If they do not, they will be subject to numerous other UCMJ offenses...Article 92 and Article 134 (the catch all) at least.
Posse Comitatus only applies to using the Military to Police the civilian population off US Installations. Not the Military Policing its own personnel. We are not limited by civilian jurisdictions....if an installation chooses to limit their MPs authority, then it is on them.
Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2013, now authorizes all properly Credentialed and Qualified MPs (all branches version of such to include retirees) to carry a concealed weapon (off duty) anywhere in the US (to include territories) just like any other City, County, or Federal Police Officer. The US Army's implementing instructions on LEOSA are scheduled to be published this SEP-DEC time frame (refer to the Officer of the Provost Marshal General website for more info).
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MAJ Jim Woods
As a retired Police Officer, I can say that most off-post contacts occur when the Police ask for, or have a written agreement with the Post Provost Marshall (contrary to the NCIS's TV program). There is normally good cooperation between the agencies involved. Up until the 80's & 90's, there was little cooperation between them. As LTC Paul Heinlein said, Posse Comitatus does not apply.
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SSG (Join to see)
LTC Heinlein,
Just to clarify, you are talking about Hr 218. TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44 § 926B, correct? My son has just completed the Missouri requirements and now is getting ready for Kansas POST. When completed he’ll have met the requirements for the two states. This is something I would have liked to have seen come into play while I was in.
Just to clarify, you are talking about Hr 218. TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44 § 926B, correct? My son has just completed the Missouri requirements and now is getting ready for Kansas POST. When completed he’ll have met the requirements for the two states. This is something I would have liked to have seen come into play while I was in.
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LTC Paul Heinlein
Samuel, yes HR 218. If you have more than 10 years as an MP (documented on your DD 214), it will also apply to those personnel. For the Army, it is going to be run by a Contractor. You will have to pay for the ID card (good for Five Years) and make sure you get qualified every twelve months by a qualified instructor and have those record with you ID to be covered under LEOSA.
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LTC Paul Heinlein
Timothy, if you are an Active Duty Soldier (or other service equivalent) and you commit a crime, you are subject to the UCMJ regardless if it is off post. If it is Off Post and civilian Authorities pursue charge, etc.. then normally the SJA/ Command do not pursue UCMJ actions, but they could (double jeopardy does not apply..two different legal systems). Sometimes, civilian turn it over completely to the military (i.e. why should they pay the bill for incarceration versus the Federal Government). Sometimes, if the Soldier is found not guilty or win an appeal on an off post case, then the Command/ SJA will pursue UCMJ action. Check out the case at Fort Bragg http://apmobile.worldnow.com/story/24627940/former-fort-bragg-soldier-again-appeals-conviction
Former Fort Bragg soldier again appeals conviction
A former Fort Bragg soldier convicted in a triple slaying in 1985 has again appealed his conviction in military court.
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This is a great discussion. Many contrasting and well argued/articulated opinions. Where else can you have this except Rally Point?
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PO1 (Join to see)
You can have this when you pull over a 'street lawyer''. Or more experienced, boyz n da hoood
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No. This would be a horrible idea for many reasons. First, I somewhat question the giving young soldiers authority off a military post. In NC, police officers must be 21. What would happen if a MP went off post to detain a soldier and a civilian attacks him. He just went into a gray area. Would the civilian be detained and brought back to post for federal charges?
Second, i was a deputy sheriff in a county bordering a base. We would find military police officers running traffic stops off post in the county. Any law enforcement agency has jurisdiction a mile beyond their boundaries. It is not meant to be patrolled but in it is meant to allow officers to act if they see a crime in the neighboring area. It got to the point where a DOD officer pulled over a Deputy Sheriff in his patrol car for speeding. The Deputy was on his way to a call but did not activate his lights. This is common for Deputies. The sheriff ended up calling the Provost Marshall and informed him if they interfere with any more police actions they will be detained and their car impounded. In a county the Sheriff as more authority than anyone else there, to include other law enforcement agencies. After that I never saw a DOD/MP car in the county again.
Second, i was a deputy sheriff in a county bordering a base. We would find military police officers running traffic stops off post in the county. Any law enforcement agency has jurisdiction a mile beyond their boundaries. It is not meant to be patrolled but in it is meant to allow officers to act if they see a crime in the neighboring area. It got to the point where a DOD officer pulled over a Deputy Sheriff in his patrol car for speeding. The Deputy was on his way to a call but did not activate his lights. This is common for Deputies. The sheriff ended up calling the Provost Marshall and informed him if they interfere with any more police actions they will be detained and their car impounded. In a county the Sheriff as more authority than anyone else there, to include other law enforcement agencies. After that I never saw a DOD/MP car in the county again.
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SGT (Join to see)
I'd like to see a deputy try to arrest an MP for trying to arrest him, would it just be a matter of who can get the cuffs on the other first?
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CPT (Join to see)
The deputy would have jurisdiction since it would have been in the county. If the MP would have arrested a civilian off base he would be facing some serious issues.
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CPT (Join to see)
I think the terminology differs. In NC if one commits a crime he is then to be arrested. We don't use the that term as it doesn't imply the legal implications of taking one into custody for a charge.
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