Posted on Sep 23, 2016
Should law enforce be allowed to brandish a firearm in order to command compliance from an unarmed and non-aggressive "suspect"?
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This behavior has been going on for a while now. Law enforcement officers drawing their weapon without any just cause. In this case, a police officer pulled his gun on a man for filming with his cell phone on his own front lawn.. Is this behavior acceptable?
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 55
Well, I'm a 30 year now retired veteran of the National Gaurd and a 34 year veteran police officer. It's not something law can govern. Our department has an escalation of force policy which basically starts with empty hand tactics before you go to any weapons. I can't speak for every department but it works for Our and we haven't had any complaints of excessive force when the policy is conformed to by officers
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...it is and should be at the discretion of the officer, its the officers life which is in question and they have the training and support groups within each duty shift for this and also in real time streaming and voice call-callback, if anyone has a fear for loss of life, anyone should "brandish a weapon" with respect to self defense only and clarity to all persons in the area whom is the good guy and whoim is not with the proper training and conscious of mind stability in a pressure situation for the best and safest outcome, this is the problem in todays society, everyone thinks they can "direct from legislation" the circumstances of a situation. The quick and capable are usually the survivor in the end, then are sacrificed by lawyers later.
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Obviously an isolated incident. A gun out and ready gives that officer an edge over a person on drugs who might kill him if given half the chance.
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Your question assumes that the suspect(s) is/are unarmed and non-aggressive. Which, if you have family in law enforcement is a no-no. The assumption is always that the person you are confronting as a suspect (or less than cooperative witness) is armed. And any weapon(s) observed is always +1 until proven otherwise. State of mind and what moves that person from passive to active aggression is unknown. Therefore one always approaches and acts in condition Yellow.
If the officer is acting in Condition Red then they have seen or heard something in which they have an articulable belief that there is a threat to the public and or themselves.
All that being said, are there some individual officers who probably go beyond those parameters? Sure.
Sadly, the current mood that is so obviously not policing friendly, it fosters a nagging fear which feeds the non friendly atmosphere which stokes the fear...etc, ad nauseaum.
So, it is a situation where the Continuum of Force needs to be reviewed, but also one where the community and the policing agency(ies) need to work together to foster better relations.
Policing works best when the community does its part in being responsive to what is going on, and being informative to the police, while the police are as open about what they are doing and how they are doing it as is possible to the community overall (obviously tactical concerns and the privacy of individuals limits any complete sharing of information).
If the officer is acting in Condition Red then they have seen or heard something in which they have an articulable belief that there is a threat to the public and or themselves.
All that being said, are there some individual officers who probably go beyond those parameters? Sure.
Sadly, the current mood that is so obviously not policing friendly, it fosters a nagging fear which feeds the non friendly atmosphere which stokes the fear...etc, ad nauseaum.
So, it is a situation where the Continuum of Force needs to be reviewed, but also one where the community and the policing agency(ies) need to work together to foster better relations.
Policing works best when the community does its part in being responsive to what is going on, and being informative to the police, while the police are as open about what they are doing and how they are doing it as is possible to the community overall (obviously tactical concerns and the privacy of individuals limits any complete sharing of information).
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"Having family in blue"...versus "You being the one in blue". Thanks; in part; to the former resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., an increase risk presented itself when that person invited family members of deceased felons into the home of the American taxpayer, and shunned those in blue....all those in blue...including family members of deceased cops who were wearing blue when they were gunned down and summarily executed... some...while simply sitting behind the wheel... Even right this moment; elected party line members of that same former resident of 1600... call for more blood in the streets. The threat level being exposed to everyone in blue right now hasn't been higher since pre- 1980's...
I do not have a problem with everyone in blue with a hand on the grip, unsnapped, locked and cocked, during any encounter...with the degree levels available of restraining holsters, that simply puts the officer into the curve to defend against any attack.
So that brings me to this... I can kill you with a frigging pencil. You may get to shoot me...but I will kill you with a pencil. Would you recognize me if I approached your family member in blue as I approach him or her with a pencil? Would you be able to even see the pencil in my hand as I approached? Would you even perceive me... an old white man with gray hair, and a damn cane, hunched over from spinal pain, as even a threat even if you saw me with a frigging pencil in my hand as a threat to your life?
Recon that should give you some food for thought....
I do not have a problem with everyone in blue with a hand on the grip, unsnapped, locked and cocked, during any encounter...with the degree levels available of restraining holsters, that simply puts the officer into the curve to defend against any attack.
So that brings me to this... I can kill you with a frigging pencil. You may get to shoot me...but I will kill you with a pencil. Would you recognize me if I approached your family member in blue as I approach him or her with a pencil? Would you be able to even see the pencil in my hand as I approached? Would you even perceive me... an old white man with gray hair, and a damn cane, hunched over from spinal pain, as even a threat even if you saw me with a frigging pencil in my hand as a threat to your life?
Recon that should give you some food for thought....
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Absolutely......if your not compling a law enforcement can use his weapon to make you comply. Also, just because someone doesn't have a weapon in their hand does not mean they're not armed. The officer is not going to take any chances. I am a retired LEO with 25 years expeience and I did what I had to, to make sure i went home everyday.
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First we need to clarify. Words have power especially when used incorrectly. If a Police Officer "Brandished: (wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.) he is wrong. Drawing a weapon is not "an Attention Getter" While I know many officer that will walk up on a traffic stop with their hand on their weapon or a weapon drawn but out of sight I have failed more than one MP private for walking up on a vehicle that way. Most of the time they were NG/Res MPs and full time Police Officers. I would explain that the force continuum is not really fixed but fluid, and just by their body language and hand on their weapon they had already moved to "Presentation of Deadly Force" its not what they are thinking its what the public or subject is perceiving. i.e do what I say or I will shoot you. We don't know the whole story as seen on a little snippet of video. The Officer had every right to tell the man to take his hands out of his pockets. if the man refused the officer would be "obliged" to ensure his compliance if a terry stop was warranted. If the man was only filming him as he claims the Officer "In My Opinion" is all kinds of wrong/
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No! That's what has gotten police into the situation they are in. I fully understand the need for caution and to protect themselves but when their first response is to draw a weapon that indicates improper training to me. For the heck of it sometime, tune in the "Cops" TV show. It's amazing how many times you see officers making initial encounters with a drawn weapon. This is because that's how we are training them these days.
The other thing I don't understand is why police intentionally escalate situations when a suspect doesn't immediately follow their commands. There can be any number of reasons for this, as with the deaf man who was shot and killed a few months back. Police training in response to these situations seems to be immediately initiate a takedown or start shooting. IMO police training is geared more towards a shoot first ask questions later mentality rather than attempting all possible actions to control a situation before even considering weapons.
The other thing I don't understand is why police intentionally escalate situations when a suspect doesn't immediately follow their commands. There can be any number of reasons for this, as with the deaf man who was shot and killed a few months back. Police training in response to these situations seems to be immediately initiate a takedown or start shooting. IMO police training is geared more towards a shoot first ask questions later mentality rather than attempting all possible actions to control a situation before even considering weapons.
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