Posted on Sep 23, 2016
Should law enforce be allowed to brandish a firearm in order to command compliance from an unarmed and non-aggressive "suspect"?
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This behavior has been going on for a while now. Law enforcement officers drawing their weapon without any just cause. In this case, a police officer pulled his gun on a man for filming with his cell phone on his own front lawn.. Is this behavior acceptable?
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 55
Weapons go off in high stress situations when an officer is not supposed to have their finger on the trigger. That's how SWAT raids go bad ala the 72 year old grandpa who was shot sitting at his kitchen table during a no knock drug raid for marijuana. Wrong house, no drugs found, officer not charged because it was an accident. I wilwsys back the blue but too many make the force because of political/ familial relationships rather than temperament. You see it in swat shootings of family pets that aren't actually a threat.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
These types of 'accidents' are completely unacceptable. I had a neighbor lady who was shot in the head because the sound of the police shattering their sliding glass door in the middle of the night caused her to run from her bedroom to find her children. The occupants were never charged with any crime, the city had to pay 7 million of our taxpayers hard earned dollars. I also wonder as you do why they can just shoot a non-threatening pet dog, just-in-case? You shoot your own dog you can go to prison....
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ENS (Join to see) From the film alone, I'd say the cop was wrong. The guy filming did make a statement about his family being harasses by the local police which leads me to believe that this is not the first time the police have been to this house. I'd like to see reports on other calls to the house, what is his history with the police department.
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SGM Erik Marquez
excellent point...we do not know the history of this individual's interaction with police.
For those that said a flat no... would you reconsider if you knew this persona was found to have a hidden handgun under he left leg in the chair last time policy were called to his residence?
Would you reconsider if the report was made to 911 that this man had been observed smoking PCP laced marijuana and had told his "friends" he was going to bait a cop to come over then "deal with him"
Would you reconsider........ if you knew the rest of the story and it was indicative of a pending armed resistance/ or attack..., or does it not matter to you what the offcier had been told, how the interaction had gone down last week.. he should have waited to be drawn on before going for his weapon in a level III retention holster?
For those that said a flat no... would you reconsider if you knew this persona was found to have a hidden handgun under he left leg in the chair last time policy were called to his residence?
Would you reconsider if the report was made to 911 that this man had been observed smoking PCP laced marijuana and had told his "friends" he was going to bait a cop to come over then "deal with him"
Would you reconsider........ if you knew the rest of the story and it was indicative of a pending armed resistance/ or attack..., or does it not matter to you what the offcier had been told, how the interaction had gone down last week.. he should have waited to be drawn on before going for his weapon in a level III retention holster?
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Sgt Joseph Baker
When you sign up to be a cop, you accept a certain level of risk. If you can't handle that, get another job. It's like a Marine who doesn't want to get muddy.
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Absolutely not. Even if it is unlikely the gun will go off it is still a chance. Most officers now will have a non lethal means with them, if for some reason they can not control the situation that should be the first choice, if there is not a hostile threat.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
I've never in 40 year of Law Enforcement ever used a tazer of chemical mace. i also have never fired a round at any suspect or shot anyone in that time period. I don't esp . like those devices and never to arrest to handcuff and didn't succeed. once again its proper training but maybe being 6' 2" myself helped, most people had to look up. One one occasion id did use a club when confronted by a suspect who came toward me with a straight razon, which He had just used on another person. I broke all four fingers in the hand that held the razor (His thumb was ok) Needless to say He dropped the weapon. He was then cuffed and that was His only injury and He got to stand trial. The victim who had an 8 inch surface cut across His neck did survive. That event was in the USAF Security Police before I became a civilian Police Officer.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SSgt Jacey, also If a firearm had to be drawn I made it a point not to have My finger in the trigger guard or back in the days with revolvers cock the weapon. I wanted to make sure if the firearm went off that was My intent and not take a chance of firing a round I didn't mean to. Another thing although We had shotguns available in an electric lock in the patrol car, You had to think twice about taking it with you due to spread pattern and also if You were handcuffing someone that takes two hand, what do You do with the shotgun then lay it down ?, I don't think so, it isn't that We never took them out but someone had to have free hands and other officer(s) for backup with shotguns if needed.
Firearms should always be the last resort and if the suspect isn't believed to be armed threat it shouldn't even be drawn.
Firearms should always be the last resort and if the suspect isn't believed to be armed threat it shouldn't even be drawn.
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SSG Jacey R.
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter - I do agree that a firearm should be the last resort, if an officer can get by without a situation escalating to the use of force, that's great. I know there are times it is needed, but the go to first choice should not be a firearm. I have known some officers to treat every situation right from the start as if the person is already hostile towards them, I also know others that would prefer if they never needed to use any type of force.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SSG Jacey R. - Most the time no force is needed and You own approach can influence that factor and make a problem where there hadn't been one before. If there was a problem that can defuse it. I've also found that some resistance at first can be headed off if My decision was already made to arrest that person they only have to deal with the present charges, don't make it worse by having some added, it won't change if Your arrested or not and right now You can still be bailed out and be headed home in a couple hours. If things are added You may well be held in jail and not be going home. that works most the time, there are still some that will be a problem anyway, You just deal with that when it happens and make the adjustment You have to.
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I don't think anyone should pull their weapon unless they are prepared to use it. (Ex-Infantry & Police officer)
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In many cases you have no right to force compliance. You had better be looking at a felony
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Shouldn't and they are not. I was a Police Officer for decades. Shooting someone on a traffic stop is uncalled for, unless there is a weapon involved. In my career I had more than a few offenders take off on me. I wasn't going to break a sweat chasing them, much less shooting them. I got a lot of amusement thinking about how I would arrest them
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Having been on both sides of the fence, it's a matter of perceived threat. If an officer is trying to subdue a combative suspect and the homeowner wants to "get in really close for a good video", the officer has to ensure his safety. If the homeowner is trying get within 20 feet in my blind spot, I would be apprehensive in trying to control 2 zones at the same time. When I was a LEO, our department policy was that an officer better be da**ed sure when he pulled that weapon from the holster that there was a real imminent threat to life and safety and not just unwarranted activity or he would be raked over the coals by the police chief and given administrative work. The weapon was used for defense...not to intimidate.
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Suspected of what? Conspiracy to J Walk. So many times I see reports of officers shooting people for traffic violations and other petty offenses. No way. It isn't worth killing someone and wrecking your career over
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